Phoebe: Love is the hardest magic of all...

[ljones]

maracev2 said:

I hated Jason with a passion and I don't think they had much chemistry. It all seemed forced. I don't think she had great chemistry with McMahon either though.

That's because you dislike Cole's character.

[vandergraafk]

Why would it have had to become the "Phoebe show"? It certainly would have given Piper and Paige the opportunity to bond together even more closely. And, who knows: maybe Phoebe would have learned something more deeply about herself. Like not chasing the first halfway decent guy to pop up. Who knows? If only leprechauns had attended the sisters' funeral in Still Charmed and Kicking, maybe Phoebe would have gone after the hottest looking little guy. Who knows? Maybe she did secretly lust after the BK Broiler guy!!! Just kidding.

[MarAcev]

Why would it have had to become the "Phoebe show"? It certainly would have given Piper and Paige the opportunity to bond together even more closely.

Which they did.

Phoebe wasn't even capable of saying I'm sorry to Paige after everything she and Cole put her through. I don't think she would've learned anything from herself that she wouldn't forget in 5 seconds. Phoebe had a lot of chances to learn a lot of lessons and she always forgot them right away..."giving up on love" anyone?

That's because you dislike Cole's character.

I hate what he did to Phoebe.

[ljones]

I hate what Phoebe and her sisters did to Cole. Maybe that's why I so heartily dislike Phoebe right now. Now, when you talk about what Cole had done to Phoebe, are you talking about his actions in S5 ONLY? Because if you're talking about his actions as the Source, then I suggest that you blame the Source and not Cole. As for me, I hate what Phoebe and her sisters did to Cole in both Seasons 4 and 5.

[MarAcev]

I'm talking about how the introduction of Cole's character changed the Phoebe from seasons 1 and 2 into what she is today.

[starr]

I think Alyssa and Julian had really good chemistry. I did like Cole but that has nothing to do with it. It's too bad Cole couldn't be good.

[vandergraafk]

What the sisters did to Cole? Say what? Let's see even Prue relented and was willing to give Cole the benefit of the doubt (briefly). Paige, too, relented in Sympathy for the Demon. Piper blew hot and cold with respect to Cole. No, Cole played a major role in creating his own messes with respect to the sisters. True, when the Source took over, that really wasn't Cole in large measure. True, too, that we are given little opportunity to see how human Cole could have interacted with the sisters. But, Cole was not driven bonkers by the sisters.

[Xenith]

Paige, too, relented in Sympathy for the Demon

See but like I said before they had to go and have the Charmed Ones seem to totally forget about the events SftD (When it was agreed by Leo and the COs that it was Cole's powers turning him evil). They go right back to treating him as the enemy, and no mention is ever made again about trying to save him, and when he eventually goes off the deep end they act like they don't know why...

Not to mention how the thought of that the Source was possessing Cole and they should try and save him, never entered their minds. And when he came back, the CO's didn't really give him much of a chance. They immediately treated him like crap, Phoebe especially placed all blame on him even when the only "evil" thing he did was kill Jackman to save their lives...

[MarAcev]

They go right back to treating him as the enemy, and no mention is ever made again about trying to save him, and when he eventually goes off the deep end they act like they don't know why...

I don't believe it's their fault if he couldn't deal with Phoebe not wanting him anymore. A lot of guys don't get the girl and they don't try to kill her entire family to convince her to come back to him.

[vandergraafk]

An old saying: power corrupts. Absolutely power corrupts absolutely. Regardless of whether Cole wishes to do well, ultimately the vast amount of power he has accumulated in the wasteland will consume him. We are given a foretaste of that in Witch in Time when six months hence Cole will reunite the demonic underworld under his leadership. Why? Out of the frustration that maracev so poignantly describes? Certainly. Out of the sheer corrosive effects of absolute power? Certainly.

He is not so much the enemy as he is someone the sisters absolutely needed to be wary of. They could perhaps influence him, but never turn him completely. That was beyond their abilities.

[starlascharmed]

I wonder what would have happened if they "Phoebe" would have been able to turn him completely. Do you think that Cole and Phoebe would have been happier together?

[ljones]

starlascharmed said:

I wonder what would have happened if they "Phoebe" would have been able to turn him completely. Do you think that Cole and Phoebe would have been happier together?

What do you mean by turning him completely? Turning Cole into someone with no evil, whatsoever? No such person exist. Even the sisters and Leo possessed inner evil within them.

An old saying: power corrupts. Absolutely power corrupts absolutely.

Meaning what? That Cole's powers had corrupted him in the end? You still believe that his powers had corrupted him? If so, you might as well say the same about the Charmed Ones. How many times did the sisters abused their powers and position as "TCO"? How many? Let's see:

1) Paige and Phoebe stripped Darryl of his would without his consent

2) Paige and Phoebe set up Rick to be murdered by demons

3)Paige dumped Nate into jail after learning he was married

4) Phoebe used her premonitions to find a walking stud farm for her unborn child

5) Piper has a habit of using her freezing power in the middle of a conversation in order to find a position to take advantage of

6) The sisters killed Cole without bothering to find out that he was possessed by the Source

7) The sisters helped the Avatars cast a spell on the world's population and engaged in the genocide of demons without the latter having to do a thing.

Perhaps you're right, Vandergraafk. Power does corrupt.

[MarAcev]

6) The sisters killed Cole without bothering to find out that he was possessed by the Source

He has a mouth. Why didn't he ever say anything?

5) Piper has a habit of using her freezing power in the middle of a conversation in order to find a position to take advantage of

Wow, that's really evil. What a terrible thing to do...if only she had turned people into watercoolers, she might be redeemed from that.

[ljones]

maracev2 said:

6) The sisters killed Cole without bothering to find out that he was possessed by the Source

He has a mouth. Why didn't he ever say anything?

5) Piper has a habit of using her freezing power in the middle of a conversation in order to find a position to take advantage of

Wow, that's really evil. What a terrible thing to do...if only she had turned people into watercoolers, she might be redeemed from that.

Cole tried to say something in "The Three Faces of Phoebe". You didn't pay attention.

Piper's habit may not be considered as evil, but she is certainly abusing her ability. Considering your love of her, I guess you can't accept that.

[prue]

Seems to me like we are getting a bit harsh on one another. Not everyone is going to see eye to eye on the subject of Cole and Phoebe. It is just the way it is. The sisters did abuse their powers from time to time in their desperate search of a normal life. They realized in the end that they couldn't run from their destiny. Cole however had trouble accepting his destiny, and subsequently it ruined their relationship. Sad but true.

[starr]

Phoebe and Paige did NOT set Rick up to be killed. He set himself up with his own actions. I don't understand how you can defend a guy like that.

[vandergraafk]

Unless you discuss these "so-called abuses of power" within the concept of the greater good, we are not going to make any headway. And, to simply list Paige and Phoebe setting up Rick in Hyde School Reunion as a sin is quite a dare, given the vehement debate we held on this topic in one of the threads. As impressive as the list is, it is simply that: a list. Where are the arguments behind each one so that we may analyze them. Nowhere!

[Triad]

ljones said:

starlascharmed said:

I wonder what would have happened if they "Phoebe" would have been able to turn him completely. Do you think that Cole and Phoebe would have been happier together?

What do you mean by turning him completely? Turning Cole into someone with no evil, whatsoever? No such person exist. Even the sisters and Leo possessed inner evil within them.

An old saying: power corrupts. Absolutely power corrupts absolutely.

Meaning what? That Cole's powers had corrupted him in the end? You still believe that his powers had corrupted him?

Yes, yes I do.
There is a reason why the Source's powers are evil... they can corrupt. Those powers came to Cole with a part of the Source as well. You cannot say that when Cole got powers from the source that he didn't get corrupted. It's a rather easy concept to understand.....

However, that was Season 4. In Season 5 his character was more complex. I say that it was a combination of his love for Phoebe and absolute power that corrupted him and eventually made him into a psychopath.

[HollysFan]

Cole tried to say something in "The Three Faces of Phoebe". You didn't pay attention.

When?

[Xenith]

It's pretty much established that the Source is preventing Cole from coming out and himself telling. A good example is in his conversation with Old Phoebe, when she tell him she asks him if he won't let her try and save him (Cole). He replies:

Cole: I want to, but he won't let me, he's too strong.

Earlier in the ep Cole was also happy about Old Phoebe coming back as he hopes she will tell Phoebe of his possession.

Seer: There must be something he wants you to tell me.

Cole: Maybe it's that your plan is gonna fail because he knows Phoebe's conjured up her own way to seeing into the future. Her future self. Somebody who will be all too willing to tell her what I can't. What's the matter? You didn't see that coming?