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Post by pheobecolefan on Nov 13, 2006 17:22:14 GMT -5
Well, that was about everything I could have said. You've said it all, Xenith, so all I have left to say is that I believe in Cole and I believe if their love had been given the chance it deserved without so many obstacles standing in their way, they would have made it and I really do not feel that Pheobe will ever find another man she loves more or close to the amount the loved Cole. The Coop plotline was a rush at giving Pheobe a happy ending since the show was ending, but it didn't seem real. I think that my views of the Pheobe/Cole relationship are apparent in my many fanfictions www.fanfiction.net/u/618128/ |
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Post by vandergraafk on Nov 13, 2006 18:48:36 GMT -5
Xenith, what you cite are snippets of incipient love. What I think lacking in Charmed is that we never ever really get to see Cole and Phoebe interacting as two normal loving people. We see plenty of Leo and Piper. So, can you really describe the basis of their love and argue definitively that Cole loved Phoebe? I don't know. I would love to, but I find it very difficult to do that.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Nov 16, 2006 14:17:26 GMT -5
Phoebe used to be my favorite sister and I thought she was finally developing as a character. Then came Season 5 and . . . meh.
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Post by *Sammi!* on Nov 17, 2006 8:31:02 GMT -5
Paige has to be mine, shes so quirky, and is hardly ever touched with anything that makes her sad, besides her parents death... The others were consumed with grief or sadness most of the time... Phoebe was great when Cole arrived... Then went down hill again in her search for love... I think that, though she may love Coop, she will always love Cole...
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Post by vandergraafk on Nov 17, 2006 19:05:22 GMT -5
Who knows? We never get to see Coop and Phoebe interacting either except in the future. Maybe it is true love!
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Post by MarAcev on Nov 18, 2006 11:16:48 GMT -5
That was precisely my problem with this plot line. We never really saw that relationship truly develop and to just come out of left field and tell me that it was true love, it makes it hard to believe. Specially when Phoebe had quite a few "true loves" during the show that ended badly. It was a bit much to swallow that this one would not go to the crapper too, just because he was a cupid.
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Post by vandergraafk on Nov 18, 2006 13:35:06 GMT -5
Yup, too many loose ends wrapped up way too inadequately. There was still plenty of stuff left for a Season 9 or 10!
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Post by *Sammi!* on Nov 27, 2006 16:45:47 GMT -5
Nah I dont think that a season9 would be a good idea. Phoebe and Cole forever with me!!
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Post by vandergraafk on Nov 27, 2006 19:17:55 GMT -5
Where? On the astral plane?
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Post by *Sammi!* on Nov 27, 2006 20:27:15 GMT -5
yeah if need be.
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Jamie
Innocent
So Cute
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Post by Jamie on Dec 9, 2006 15:55:38 GMT -5
I loved Charmed and I didn't want it to end but I think Season 9 would be a bit too far in Season 8 they did reuse some old episodes, I was happy with how they finished Charmed with Forever Charmed.
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Post by *Sammi!* on Dec 10, 2006 22:00:24 GMT -5
True... I loved Phoebe's wedding dress to Coop, so simple yet stunning!
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redowl
Familiar
Saula = Love
Posts: 152
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Post by redowl on Jan 4, 2007 18:12:24 GMT -5
Well, I must say that this thread has many different subjects and views, but I have a few things to add. In the Phoebe and Coop plotline, I thought they had amazing chemistry. What some of you are not taking into account is that Coop is not used to being able to love himself. I see that you don't like him, in an odd way, but he truly doesn't know how to love. He knows about love, sure, and he knows how to find matches, but that doesn't mean that he knows what it actually feels like. Coop, I feel, just didn't get enough time to see him grow. That's exactly why I write the stories I do, and that's why I understand Coop so much. Here are some snippets of what my friend, Emma, and I have gone over in Coop's character, and if you actually KNEW him (like in my stories), you'd realize what he's truly like. I am not denying that Phoebe and Cole have something special, but the thing is...they had chemistry, and they might have been together at one point, but Cole was a demon. One of the most bloodthirsty demons, actually. The ONLY thing that kept him from not killing her is because "Phoebe's love" saved him. If that's not a fairytale (a tragic fairytale, but a fairytale nonetheless), I don't know what is. It's a bit like Beauty and the Beast crossed with Romeo and Juliet to me. However, these snippets.... **** I love the interaction between Phoebe and Coop, he really does look at things in quite a black and white manner, which is pefect as he will always believe that love will conquer all after all he is a cupid! - I never really thought of it that way, but you are right. He thinks of most things in a black and white manner, seeing as he's a Cupid and he was brought up to do those things. However, Phoebe will help him get over that, and he'll learn that there are shades of gray to things, and there are ways to get away from the rules, so long as he provides his "case" properly. Of course, that's not the only reason why. He's really loyal, and I feel that he'll really go for the "love will conquer all" aspect, especially with the Source. He's sort of like Drake, and a bit of Cole mixed in together. Maybe that's why I like him so much, and that's why I feel like I can really connect to him so much. Coop really is the only character who I really CONNECT to, and I feel I can relate to. He's the best character for me to write, actually, since I'm such a huge romantic, and I can put bits of myself into Coop. - I can see a little of both of them in Coop also, I don't know if that is why so many people didn't take to him, I never really understood it myself, most people tend to be attracted to similar people so it makes sense that Coop is a little like them to me. Although I have to say he is millions times better than either of them and I really liked Cole when he was first in the show but they just brought him back way to many times it got a bit repetitive. Coles back, they kill Cole over and over got to boring (dont know if that is the word I want to use but couldnt think of a better one!) I got to the stage where I kept saying to myself "would you please just stay dead" ***** There's more, but I won't post that. Even if you don't agree...well, then. However, if that's not enough proof for you, I have my own fanfiction profile, and if you want, check out my oneshots, and my full length ones, Following His Heart and Impossible Loves. www.fanfiction.net/u/854285/Red Owl |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Jan 5, 2007 12:39:33 GMT -5
This is a prime example of one of the problems I had with this show. Cole is exclusively judged as not right for Phoebe, simply because of what he was - a half-demon. This is sophomoric characterization at its worst.
And just because Coop wasn't a demon or half-demon, he deemed as "perfect" for a woman - namely Phoebe - who was barely able to mature or grow as a character during the show's last four seasons.
One, love will not conquer all. Even in fiction.
Two, you actually see Coop's tendency to view the world in a black-and-white manner as a sign of perfection? If anything, this is nothing more than a major flaw in his character. It tells me that he is narrow-minded and incapable of being flexible. And he's married to a woman who is one of the most morally ambiguous characters on that show. Only she's too stupid to realize this.
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Post by chrmd4life on Jan 5, 2007 15:15:12 GMT -5
I guess I should have quoted this person and unfortunately, I can't remember who said it now, but I like how the point was brought up that Coop wasn't used to loving for himself. He was mainly used to 'set-up' other people. It was like new territory for him.
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redowl
Familiar
Saula = Love
Posts: 152
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Post by redowl on Jan 5, 2007 17:38:43 GMT -5
Ljones,
You totally misunderstood me. I did not think that seeing things in a black and white manner is perfection. On the contrary. I am trying to make you see that Coop is not perfect, because he DOES see things in a black and white manner.
Cole was a half-demon. He tried to fight it, but the thing was, he didn't really care enough for Phoebe. I'm not denying that he loves her more than anything else in the world, but he would have tried harder, tried harder to resist the Source. He should have found a way to tell Phoebe. Even when he was totally immersed in trying to get Phoebe back, he was completely dismissing Phoebe's feelings.
I don't believe love will conquer all. It's just Coop does, and that's one of the things that doesn't make him perfect. Phoebe knows this (and that's how she's grown) and she helps him find that.
He is not "incapable of being flexible and narrow-minded" no matter what you think.
ljones, other than this, I am not trying to argue with you. I'm just saying that I do not agree with you, and I think that your ideals might not necessarily be bad, it's just that they don't really reflect what I feel.
Coop is one of the best people on Charmed and, frankly, if Cole really loved Phoebe, he would have tried much harder, when he was Belthazor and even when he was trying to get her back in Season Five.
I have a feeling that you think when Cole was there, Phoebe was being "mature" and "grown-up" and when she vanquished him, she was being completely immature.
And I don't agree with that.
*shakes head and sighs*
Besides, this really isn't a thread for discussing Coop anyway. Only Phoebe's character, and I personally think she's grown ENORMOUSLY over the last eight years.
Red Owl
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Jan 8, 2007 10:47:57 GMT -5
Ljones, You totally misunderstood me. I did not think that seeing things in a black and white manner is perfection. On the contrary. I am trying to make you see that Coop is not perfect, because he DOES see things in a black and white manner. Cole was a half-demon. He tried to fight it, but the thing was, he didn't really care enough for Phoebe. I'm not denying that he loves her more than anything else in the world, but he would have tried harder, tried harder to resist the Source. He should have found a way to tell Phoebe. Even when he was totally immersed in trying to get Phoebe back, he was completely dismissing Phoebe's feelings. I don't believe love will conquer all. It's just Coop does, and that's one of the things that doesn't make him perfect. Phoebe knows this (and that's how she's grown) and she helps him find that. He is not "incapable of being flexible and narrow-minded" no matter what you think. ljones, other than this, I am not trying to argue with you. I'm just saying that I do not agree with you, and I think that your ideals might not necessarily be bad, it's just that they don't really reflect what I feel. Coop is one of the best people on Charmed and, frankly, if Cole really loved Phoebe, he would have tried much harder, when he was Belthazor and even when he was trying to get her back in Season Five. I have a feeling that you think when Cole was there, Phoebe was being "mature" and "grown-up" and when she vanquished him, she was being completely immature. And I don't agree with that. *shakes head and sighs* Besides, this really isn't a thread for discussing Coop anyway. Only Phoebe's character, and I personally think she's grown ENORMOUSLY over the last eight years. Red Owl Well . . . your ideals do not reflect what I feel. Coop is nothing more to me than a fantasy illusion of what Phoebe sees as the perfect man. Nothing more and nothing less. She'll never have to work at maintaining a relationship with Coop. And because of that, she'll never grow as a character. Instead, she'll spend the rest of her life, wallowing in her little fantasy of a "perfect" life and a "perfect" husband. Piper had to learn how to deal with both the bad and the good in Leo. Phoebe could have learned to deal with both the bad and good in Cole. But she didn't bother, because she was afraid of not only his shadow, but especially of her own. In fact, she projected her own self fear upon Cole. And he failed to live up to her stupid and immature belief of how a relationship is supposed to work. I'll never accept Coop as perfect for Phoebe. Because I don't think he is. And if you think that I feel that Cole was the only one for her, I believe that she could have worked at a relationship with Jason Dean. But Phoebe screwed that up by lying to him for nearly a year. |
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Post by vandergraafk on Jan 18, 2007 18:49:35 GMT -5
Lying is a bit strong, don't you think? Yes, she did not reveal her secret life to Jason for a year. However, how on Earth would she have been able to accomplish this, given Jason Dean's generally business-like personality? I think he would have reacted in exactly the same way he did act when the truth was revealed finally. He couldn't handle it! Phoebe's deception only made matters worse.
Henry, on the other hand, was receptive to the possiblity of Paige being "special", even if he didn't understand what the nature of her specialness was. When Paige mustered the courage to out herself, Henry reacted as any open-minded and caring person might have. He had empathy and even found it attractive, even though there was a bit of peril associated with Paige's witchy/whitelighter essence.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Jan 22, 2007 2:13:22 GMT -5
What is this supposed to be? An excuse? Sorry, I'm not buying it.
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redowl
Familiar
Saula = Love
Posts: 152
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Post by redowl on Jan 22, 2007 16:04:35 GMT -5
Not an excuse, ljones.
It's the truth.
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