Piper: Sister/Mother/Lover

[HollysFan]

I agree with you that she was born in 1973.

[charmedsista]

I agree with HollysFan!!
i luv piper!!
she's my favorite sister!!
i luv her!

[charmedp3]

honestly it could be right either way with her birthday and all the show has a lot of lot of continuacy(sp?) errors but i remember seeing that holly said piper was born the same year as her so i dunno

[vandergraafk]

Let's see. In Forever Charmed Piper asks: "How old am I? Three is the reply. Since we know that Phoebe is born in late 1975 (she's a Scorpio, baby, a Scorpio who doesn't know astrology, apparently), then she was conceived in early 1975 (January) or late 1974 (December). If Piper is already 3, when Phoebe is conceived - and that's the implication in Forever Charmed, then Piper is born in 1971 or 1972. Since Prue is definitely two years older, then she is either 1969 or 1970, all of which makes Witchstock utterly unbelievable, unless Penny is a geriatric hippie at 40+ in 1967. Now, just throw in the fact that in Centennial Charmed Paige's date of birth is also 1975. We can surely conclude that something ain't right!

So, now let's see. If Piper graduates in 1992, then she's either 21, 20 or 19 when she graduates. Excuse me: but, 21. How many grades did she fail? None of these is credible.

And, let's see. In A Paige from the Past, Paige is 25 when we learn that her parents died 7 years ago while she was in high school. At least, she was 17 and in high school! The year is 2002. 2002 - 25 = 1977. At least, something makes sense. Can we then assume that Paige graduated when she was 18 (the typical age of graduation from American high schools). This would mean that she graduated in 1995, Phoebe in 1993 and Piper in 1990. (Deja Vu All Over Again can resolve this since that's the first mention we have of Baker High School.) Prue graduated in 1988 (which means 1969 or 1970 is fine).

And then along came Joanne. Joanne, the line producer in Deja Vu, says that she is in Baker High's class of 1992. Piper doesn't immediately recognize her. Why should she? Joanne is a plebe, a mere sophomore for the senior (and smart) Piper. Now, in Coyote Piper, the picture board clearly states Class of 1990. Voila. Piper graduated in 1990!

Still, the point is that the overall story editors needed to check more carefully their own mythology. I'd rather Piper were a Gemini, born in June 1971 (both she and Prue were held back a year before going to school: witch related issues, I imagine. It fits her personality. Paige should be a Taurus. And Prue (1969)and Phoebe, two scorpios if there ever were any!

[ljones]

charminglycharmed said:

Im pretty sure in Coyote Piper its says " Baker High Class of 92"

So . . . are you saying that Piper was born in 1974? Why would Piper have her 10 year reunion in 2000 (mid Season 3), instead of 2002 (around the end of Season 4 and the beginning of Season 5)?

As for the notorious family tree from "Pardon My Past", it also stated that Penny was born in 1937. We all know that is impossible, considering that Patty was born in 1950. And it also stated that the sisters' grandfather was named Jack, not Allen.

[vandergraafk]

No, she may have written that, but it is in error. The picture board clearly states at the beginning of Coyote Piper: Baker High Class of 1990. Yeah, you really have to toss out the whole family tree crap (as nice as it looked). Besides, did Grams have 4 husbands or 6? Phoebe has claimed both at one time or another.

[MarAcev]

I think Grams' husbands 5 and 6 were merely an exaggeration from Phoebe.

If Piper's high school graduation was in 1990, then she could've been born in March of '73 no problem. Perhaps she just started kindergarden when she wasn't 5 yet.

[vandergraafk]

Yes, but the problem now comes from Forever Charmed. In that episode, we "know" - whatever that means - that Piper is already 3 when Phoebe is conceived. If you remain anchored to 1975 as Phoebe's year of birth (as well you must be), then Piper has to have been born in January 1972 or February 72 since Phoebe has to be conceived in January 1975 or February 75 (Scorpio is mid October to mid November, correct?) But, since Piper may be a Gemini, then she would surely have to be born mid-June or thereabouts of 1971. This would mean that she graduated at 19 from Baker High. Confused? Trust me, it's confusing!

P.S. See my comments below. Piper is "almost" 3 in Forever Charmed.

[MarAcev]

No, she's almost three, not yet three.

And I can anchor myself to Prue's birthdate, 1971. In Forever Charmed Piper said that if she was almost three then Prue was about 5 meaning that she had to had been born 2 years after Prue = 1973.

[vandergraafk]

I appreciate the careful wording. I had misplaced my tape of Forever Charmed and was working from memory.

Piper: "How old am I now? I mean now, in your time."

Victor: "Almost three."

Piper: "So Prue would be 5."

So, there. Let's start with that. If Phoebe is a Scorpio and is born in late October to mid November 1975, then subtracting 3 brings us back to 1972. But, as you point out, she's almost three. This means - contrary to my hallucinations up above - that her date of birth is sometime after January or February 1972. I'll opt for February 1972, since according to That 70s Episode, Patty is just pregnant with Phoebe and doesn't know this yet, but has received a premonition. Victor has only recently left (say in the last two weeks), which is why Patty is still trying to woo him back. If Piper is truly a Gemini, I will try to make her the earliest Gemini possible which would be around 22 May. Let's see February, March, April, May? Is that close enough to justify the use of the word "almost". It's a stretch, but I'll accept it.

Now, what are we to make of Piper's deduction that Prue would be 5? Quite simply, Piper is mistaken, and understandably so. First, let's note that Piper uses the conditional future (would be), not the present tense (is). This suggests some uncertainty.

Second, Piper uses an age difference that all of us use at one time or another to explain her relationship to Prue. Let me reference my own siblings as an example. I am the oldest and was born in May. My older younger sister was born in January. Since she was born before me in terms of calendar month, I never gain a full year on her, but it's close enough. In fact, I am almost three years older than my sibling. In reality, though, I am 2 years and 9 months (approximately) older than her. So, if someone were to ask me, how much younger my sister is, I reply, as most would, I'm 3 years older. Well, not exactly!

If Piper is a May Gemini (maybe this is why I like Piper so much because I am a cusp line Gemini), then she too is going to round her age difference. Two years? Let's see. Suppose Scorpio Prue is a November child, then she is really only 1 year 7 months older than Piper. Should we round to 2? Most mathematicians could accept that, I suppose. Even more so if Prue is an October Scorpio and Piper a June Gemini. But, little kids aren't mathematicians and they don't focus on the nuances. Rather kids reckon (and adults accept) a logic that runs like this: Let's see. I (Piper) was born in 1972, Prue in 1970. We are two years apart. That's what most of us do, n'est-ce pas?

Bottomline: where is a story editor when you need one? And, the family tree in Pardon My Past is a sheer and utter disaster.

End of story.

[MarAcev]

Now, what are we to make of Piper's deduction that Prue would be 5? Quite simply, Piper is mistaken

So Piper doesn't know how old she is?

[vandergraafk]

Of course, not. Not in that time frame. She mistakenly estimates Prue's age to be five since she adds two years (the working age difference she has kept all her life) to almost three and comes up with 5. By my reckoning, Prue has probably just turned 4. When Piper turns 3, Prue will be seventh months on her way to turning 5. But, in February or late January - in this time frame - she's only 4.

Besides, Piper's not trying to determine Prue's age. Rather, she wants to figure out where Phoebe is.

P.S. Oops, there was an error in the previous posting. I've since corrected it and rephrased the argument.

[p3charm]

But if Prue just turned 4 as you said I think her sister would know that. You are saying that even though Piper wasn't 3 yet she was too dumb to know that her older sister just had her 4th birthday. Little kids do know how old they are and know how old their siblings are. They aren't as stupid as you're making them out to be.

[bettyboop]

Piper is always saving somebodies' -ss. She doesn't seem to know the extent of her powers and never was really to concerned about it either. What mattered was her family.

[vandergraafk]

P3charm: I just don't get your point. Revisit the episode. Piper makes the comment without much thought. Suppose it's February and suppose Scorpio Prue was born mid October, surely you wouldn't say that she had just had her birthday? My point, which you clearly missed, is that we - each of us - even adults - round the differences among us. If you are born in 1972 and I am born in 1970, then we're two years apart. That's simple shorthand.

Besides, why focus only the purported explanation? Does that mean you discount the bigger point that, namely, Prue is 1970 (not 1969 or 1971) and Piper is 1972? Go figure!

[MarAcev]

Don't get me started on Prue. It says on the family tree that she was born in 1971 but on her grave it said 1970. But, it also said on the family tree that Phoebe was born in 1975 and then in Centennial Charmed Paige's grave had 1975 as her birth year which is nearly impossible.

Why don't we change the subject to something we can actually determine because birthdays and birth years aren't all that consistent. Lets talk about Piper's fascination with dead guys. How about that?

[ljones]

maracev2 said:

No, she's almost three, not yet three.

And I can anchor myself to Prue's birthdate, 1971. In Forever Charmed Piper said that if she was almost three then Prue was about 5 meaning that she had to had been born 2 years after Prue = 1973.

According to www.wikipedia.com, Prue was born in October 1970, not 1971. I think that they used her tombstone in "Hell Hath No Fury", which listed her birth and death as 1970-2001, as a source.

[HollysFan]

Why don't we change the subject to something we can actually determine because birthdays and birth years aren't all that consistent. Lets talk about Piper's fascination with dead guys. How about that?

She's only been with 2 hasn't she? Mark and Leo. I wouldn't call it a fascination, more of a "falling hard and fast for the wrong guy at the wrong time." Not that Leo is the wrong guy in any way.

[MarAcev]

I was just joking. I'd call it a coincidence or foreshadowing. I'm just trying to steer the conversation away from the birthdates because it's useless to argue about it when there are lots of different pieces of contradicting information.

[HollysFan]

^^ Yeah. No kidding.