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Post by SimplyAretha on Jun 26, 2011 21:24:50 GMT -5
The founders are clearly the writers and the head founder is Constance Burge but in canon who are they?
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Post by CHARMED FAN on Jul 7, 2011 22:24:30 GMT -5
IT'S JULY SO WHERE IS SEASON 2 LOCATED AT?
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Post by Astral Echo on Jul 8, 2011 10:16:28 GMT -5
It will be up very soon, don't you worry.  |
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Post by SimplyAretha on Jul 10, 2011 23:03:36 GMT -5
Sorry I know I'm late. Season 2 will start July 16th.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Jul 30, 2011 0:39:31 GMT -5
Or perhaps the writers decided to change their names from the Founders to the Elders.
After all, Victor went through two surnames - Halliwell and Jones - before he became a Bennett.
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
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Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
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Post by Esmeralda on Jul 30, 2011 8:45:58 GMT -5
Keep in mind that during Season One Leo said they were called a bunch of "elder whitelighters" known as the "Founders". The exact quote:That obviously makes them one and the same.
Then during Season Two they weren't called anything - the sisters and Leo always just referred to them as "They".
Obviously Brad Kern liked the name the Elders better than the Founders, because The Elders became their official title starting with Season Three, the same way Victor got a new face and a new name in Season Three. Kern obviously didn't like the way they were done in Season One and changed it in Season Three.
With Victor, I'll agree with him. With whoever Leo's bosses are known as, I don't. I like them best as They and Them, especially when They were never seen.
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Post by Chrisaholic on Jul 30, 2011 10:15:38 GMT -5
Yep, as soon as the names were out, well, you began to dislike them. Partly, not all, yet still you've got a face and a name and boom ... the mystery is gone!!  |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jul 31, 2011 13:45:09 GMT -5
Exactly. Just like the Source.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 7:08:27 GMT -5
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Post by West on Jul 10, 2015 20:46:51 GMT -5
Elders and "The Founders" alike?
Brad Kern changed the rules in season 3, calling them elders. They were suppose to be known as them, like the source was known as him or he in season 1 by Rex and Hannah.
2: "You were never supposed to find out"
Leo was never suppose to return after season 1, white-lighters only help new witches and leave. But when Andy was written off, they kept him on as a charmed ones primary love interest focus. But Leo got caught, and I suspect he was still originally suppose to leave after season 1 and Piper for good.
3: Did the sisters have a whitelighter when they had their powers as youngsters (Before Nicholas)
I'm not sure about this, they say he was assigned, but in season 5 Leo says he watched them as children. I think the writers changed the rules once Leo stayed on the show. He was most likely only assigned in season 1 to the charmed ones, and suppose to leave after a year while they were still new to the world of witches and demons.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2016 11:30:18 GMT -5
Actually, the term "Source" was first used in Season Two, before Kern seized power. I think the episode with Litvack is the one where the term is first used.
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Jul 6, 2016 12:34:18 GMT -5
Actually, the term "Source" was first used in Season Two, before Kern seized power. I think the episode with Litvack is the one where the term is first used. I believe your correct Tim. |
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Post by StoryGirl83 on Jul 6, 2016 21:39:59 GMT -5
1) Personally I love the term Founders. I don't find it offensive at all. I'd have issues with creators or something like that, but Founders make me think that they were the ones who first got everyone organized, that whitelighters used to be unorganized and then this group of "elder whitelighters" decided that this was a problem (if you want me to make up a reason, I absolutely can, because I've come up with some for various fanfics as well as explanations why whitelighters are forbidden romance and why it actually wasn't a problem for a whitelighter and a witch, because in my fanon the real problem was two whitelighters having a kid, but they went overboard with things to make sure that never happened) and they founded the elders council. I also tend to see the founders as the bosses of the elders, but in the way the elders council is over the elders, but they are still elders, the founders are the original elders (who may or may not still be around due to the titans). That's a bit of my fanon on that, but I can wax on about it for quite a while.
2) Since I try to make things work even when they may have been a clear case of the writers messing up, I tend to go with the theory that either Leo was told that specifically for this charges (I'd have to go back and look at the exact wording as this is something I haven't really thought about all that much) or else there was some sort of shift up there (and what little thought I have put on the subject tends to go into what kind of shift this might have been) that changed how whitelighters deal with their charges (in other words, I fanonize the return of Brian Krause as an actual in universe change). In addition, I got the idea that in general, the future whitelighter charges weren't really supposed to know (especially since many of them didn't even know about magic in the first place) and were only told if absolutely necessary. It could be a case of a hostile take over Up There where the "elders" (read younger elders who thought they knew better) took over from the "founders" (read older elders who are resistant to change and had decided on these rules that state whitelighters shouldn't tell their charges who they are) and decided to switch the rules on everyone, letting the whitelighters tell their charges (or at least the ones not likely to have a heart attack from the news), because they thought the old "regime" was too restrictive. If I wanted to claim that theory I would say that it happened due to something involved with the time reversals in "Deja Vu All Over Again." Maybe one of the elders saw an event repeated over and over again and always end badly, but thought it could have ended well if a whitelighter could have been more involved in some way. I am seriously trying to resist the urge to write a fanfic on this subject, but I can pretty much guarantee that this is going to sneak into at least one of my series somewhere, probably the "Time Zone" story arc of season two of my Charmed: Heritage.
3) I always assumed that just like Sam was Patty's whitelighter that he was also Prue, Piper, and Phoebe (and Grams)' whitelighter. It never really seemed that complicated. I even wrote a one-shot fanfic about the changing of the whitelighters where Leo is given the Charmed Ones as charges called Leo's Choice in which he is told that he is being assigned the Charmed Ones as charges. I wrote it from the point of view of Leo in season seven (I think) where he is thinking back to how he had first become the Charmed Ones' whitelighter now that he wasn't a whitelighter at all and I made sure to include every named elder that I knew in that story (there are a couple of elders who didn't make the cut, because at the time I didn't have the slightest clue who they were). It was a lot of fun writing it. I'm pretty sure I haven't shared it here, though. My one-shots (I have five or so) one one thing I haven't shared very widely. Regardless, though, I figured Sam was their whitelighter before.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jul 6, 2016 22:18:56 GMT -5
That makes sense. Sam was probably their family whitelighter until Patty died and he clipped his wings. By that point, the sisters had no idea they were witches, so there was no need for them to know about whitelighters - and Leo was given to them as their guide when their powers were unbound/
Not quite sure I buy it...but it makes sense...
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Post by unakite on Jul 6, 2016 23:18:44 GMT -5
I find what you think very agreeable
In The Honeymoon Is Over, Leo told there were different levels Up There, there was a hierarchy and that a marriage was a sacred bond that the Elders themselves would be complelled to honour
He talked of the his " bosses bosses"
Compelling theory
I have always thought that 'Titans's attack had had a role in the Elders ' s makeover
The Founders's killing may have changed, as well as hierarchies, also the balance of power between different conceptions of the role of the Elders
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Post by StoryGirl83 on Jul 6, 2016 23:52:21 GMT -5
I find what you think very agreeable Thank you. In The Honeymoon Is Over, Leo told there were different levels Up There, there was a hierarchy and that a marriage was a sacred bond that the Elders themselves would be complelled to honour He talked of the his " bosses bosses" I thought I remember something about that. Thanks for telling me where to look. Compelling theory I have always thought that 'Titans's attack had had a role in the Elders ' s makeover The Founders's killing may have changed, as well as hierarchies, also the balance of power between different conceptions of the role of the Elders And I don't disagree with this. The Titan attack definitely changed things up there. The problem is that there were things that changed before then, which is why I choose to go with this theory, that there was a change in the hierarchy before then. I probably should have added that the events with the Titans changed things even more, potentially getting rid of all remaining Founders and also a lot of the older, "wiser" elders that were around. You will note how the levelheaded Cecil was killed while the somewhat hotheaded Rolland was not. Gideon, who was prone to murder and Odin who was prone to rig the "game" were also among the survivors. Of course Sandra seems pretty levelheaded. I chose that time, because that episode had potentially far reaching effects around the same time that they decided to keep Brian Krause in the cast and because of that, had to make changes. I suppose that he quit trying to hide if from them, because they knew. Do you remember when we started hearing about his other charges? Or when Paige first started revealing herself as half whitelighter to people outside the family? Maybe I should be looking for an event around the time one of those things occurred. Another thought is that maybe Ramus wasn't the only elder who "retired." I know that wasn't until season five, but what if elders had been retiring for several years and were being replaced with younger elders like Kevin and it just was that Ramus' retirement was the first one that needed the Charmed Ones' attention for whatever reason. |
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Post by unakite on Jul 6, 2016 23:59:39 GMT -5
It would be stimulating to try to write a story of the Elders
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Post by Chrisaholic on Jul 7, 2016 8:36:29 GMT -5
In my latest story which I still write, I also gave the Elders bosses who didn't watch over them for ages but now want to return. This is still very vague and also has potential for a new S7 of mine. |
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Post by magena on Jul 7, 2016 14:09:16 GMT -5
StoryGirl, you seem remeber a lot of things about the Elders, maybe yould start putting together the information to try together to write a coherent Elders' story o
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Post by StoryGirl83 on Jul 7, 2016 16:06:58 GMT -5
StoryGirl, you seem remeber a lot of things about the Elders, maybe yould start putting together the information to try together to write a coherent Elders' story o Actually, I am currently plotting out a very long story arc involving corruption up there and one of the stories I am currently working on (but not posting until the companion story is completed since it is a side story in my series, long, but still a side story) is about a trial surrounding three whitelighters (I'll post it here when I get to that point). As a result, yeah, I pay a lot of attention to those details. I want to stay as close to canon as possible, changing events behind the scenes rather than changing events we saw on screen. For example one of my fics is a rewrite of sorts of Imaginary Fiends from season seven, except I show what Wyatt was doing before he was pulled into the present day, I include Chris in the episode without changing one event that occurred in it (although I think someone pointed out that I did accidentally skip a scene), and also show an alternate version that occurs because someone from Wyatt and Chris' time messed with things, which is what I am currently working on there. My goal with that story was to have you watch the episode and think that all the things I added could have been happening between scenes, because they didn't contradict anything on screen. At least that was my goal. I also have a backstory for The Cleaners as to why they weren't there to clean things up when Prue died which I will also be using. I enjoy looking at what they gave us and digging deeper, making their inconsistencies make sense. I prefer to write a story about why it works over wondering why it doesn't. Of course I know there are inconsistencies and mistakes and continuity errors and all manor of things. I just enjoy fixing them without changing the source material. I also do complete rewrites, sometimes starting with the first episode. In those cases I definitely don't follow canon all that closely. |
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