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Post by Astral Vision on Feb 12, 2014 16:22:37 GMT -5
Today I finished my rewatch of season four. I believe this is the first time that I've ever actually seen the whole of season four in order (rather than in pieces). Now that I've finished my rewatch I'm wondering how to sum it up.
Of the reconstituted Charmed Ones era, season four is probably my favourite. Of the overall show, it ranks behind season three (until I've rewatched season two, I can't say whether or not the fourth season falls in front or behind that one).
I've always preferred the first half of season four to the second half. The two halves (and yes, I know it's not a half in the sense of an equal number of episodes on either side), in my opinion, are: Charmed Again Part One (4x01) - Charmed and Dangerous (4x13) and The Three Faces of Phoebe (4x14) - Witch Way Now? (4x22).
For me, I would sum up the first half of season four as Prue's goodbye, Paige's introduction to the Charmedverse, and the final battles in the war between the Charmed Ones and the original Source. Oh and there's Cole and Phoebe relationship woes mixed in with all of that. My top three episodes (in no particular order) from the first half would be A Knight to Remember (4x06), Brain Drain (4x07), and Charmed and Dangerous (4x13).
In my opinion, the second half is where Phoebe's personality suddenly changes for the worse. I know most people believe season three is when her character starts to go downhill, but for me, she makes that sudden shift from the moment The Three Faces of Phoebe begins. Before my rewatch, I would have probably summed the second half of season four up as irritating, but on my rewatch I realised that only the Phoebe parts annoyed me. The overall plots for the second half of season four are really good, and I think a lot of my annoyance for the second half of this season has come from what it leads onto in season five: Cole's final arc. It's not difficult to say that the arc for the second half of season four is very interesting to watch, even if the sisters are very slow to catch onto the obvious fact that Cole is demonic again. My top three episodes (in no particular order) for the second half of season four would be: The Fifth Halliwell (4x16), Bite Me (4x18), and Witch Way Now? (4x22).
Some further surprises from my rewatch: I used to find Saving Private Leo (4x17) one of the more boring episodes of the season. However, on my rewatch, Saving Private Leo is actually quite interesting to watch, especially with the annoying Phoebe/Cole subplot taking a backseat for that episode. The ghost brothers' attempted murder of Piper is very horrifying to watch. It's surprising how long Piper managed to survive before Leo got around to healing her considering just one knife wound earlier on in the episode killed Leo's charge within a minute.
Anyway, because I always see season four as a season split into two halves, I don't know how I would sum it up overall. I guess the best way to sum up the season would be Paige's gradual acceptance into the Halliwell family and magical world, as well as the demise of Phoebe and Cole, and finally the final (or what should have been if season eight did not decide to drag it back so anticlimatically) fights between the sisters and the Source(s).
How would you sum it up?
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Esmeralda
Charmed
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Post by Esmeralda on Feb 13, 2014 1:10:37 GMT -5
I've posted this elsewhere, but I'm copying it for you. I wrote this during the summer after Charmed ended (along with the other 7 seasons), and although my thoughts
In case you're curious, here's my ratings for the other seasons. Some of this has changed during recent rewatches, mainly because knowing what's going to happen in latter seasons makes the earlier seasons harder to watch, but most haven't:
SEASON ONE: Finding their Destiny: B+// 8 out of 10 stars // Very Good!
SEASON TWO: Living their Destiny: A+/ 10 out of 10 stars/ EXCELLENT!
SEASON THREE: Losing part of their Destiny: A-/8 out of 10/Very Good!
SEASON FOUR: Screwing up the Birth Order: C-/4 out of 10 Stars/Mediocre
SEASON FIVE: Meeting the rest of the Magical Community: C-/5 out of 10/OK
SEASON SIX: Upstaged by a couple of cute upstarts: F-/0 out of 10 stars/UNWATCHABLE!
SEASON SEVEN: What should've been the last season: D+/3 out of 10 stars/Bad, but not terrible
SEASON EIGHT: What a horrible way to end what could've been such a great show: F/1 out of 10 stars/A bit better than S6 but not by much!
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iamthesun
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Post by iamthesun on Feb 13, 2014 7:33:05 GMT -5
This used to be my favourite season, because I really liked Paige. It was awkward at first as she had to fit into an already well established family. And then there was Piper's downward spiral (that scene, great acting!) after time, she did and then the show took on a darker theme, with Cole and the Seer and everything that went along with that. This season had some really good episodes - merry go round, long live the queen and the finale were strong story lines.
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Post by Astral Vision on Feb 13, 2014 13:21:47 GMT -5
Es, how did season five score better than season four? Is it because you prefer the lighter stuff? Five is definitely lighter than four, but it's just so terrible...
I didn't feel like Paige was pushed onto the audience, but then again, I did not see it when it was first aired, so the first Paige season I saw was season six, followed by season seven, so by the time I got around to finally seeing the fourth season for the first time, I was happy to see how she was introduced and that she actually had a full-time job and a life outside of magic and her sisters at one point.
I agree that the Source's face should have never been revealed, but I don't think we should have ever seen him in hooded form (which means All Hell Breaks Loose is at fault here) either. I think, like the Elders and the Angel of Destiny(s), the Source should have remained a powerful being that was mentioned but never seen or heard. Besides, I clearly remember Leo stating in Apocalypse, Not (2x21) that there were many more powerful evil species than demons including the four horsemen and since they worked for the Source in that episode and the Source was able to vanquish them quite easily, surely the Source could not have been just a powerful demon (when there are supposed to be many unheard of species more powerful than demons) like he's made out to be in season four?
iamthesun, I'll agree that there were many good episodes. Personally, I don't like Marry-Go-Round. It's trying to mix comedy into a very dark episode, which doesn't work so well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2014 13:50:02 GMT -5
Three Faces Of Phoebe To me is easily the worst episode of Season 4. Either than that I find season 4 to be one of the best seasons. Slightly behind season 3.
Its hard for me to really sum up what season 4 is but I'll try. I personally find the first half of the season a lot better paced and entertaining than the second half. Charmed Again - Charmed And Dangerous of course. The 2nd half focused way to much on Phoebe and Cole when we already focused on Phoebe and Cole all throughout season 3. I also grew tired of his constant battle of I'm good not evil. I feel like there also needed to be more emphasis on Paige's character this season, yes we had flawless episodes like Paige From The Past but what about the rest of her adoptive family? The 1st half also seemed to have a better balance of screen time through all 3 main leads while the second half felt rushed and unbalanced.
Now for story arc. The First half was built into 3 arcs. We have of course the mourning over Prue's death which was a highlight through the first few episodes. Holly did an amazing job channeling those emotions on screen and certainly was the break out star of the season. Hell Hath No Fury was fabulous in both story and performance. The second arc of course dealt with the introduction of Paige as a lost step sister who can reconstitute the Power Of 3. I thought they did a great job introducing her character to the series. Well given the circumstances of what happened to Shannon Doherty. The 3rd arc is Phoebe and Cole. Cole becoming mortal and Phoebe having fear and anxiety over marraige. While we learn new things about Paige, and every character had their own mini stories going on, all that was gone after Charmed and Dangerous.
The second half of season 4 was literally all about Phoebe and Cole. There was no more learning about Paige. Apparently 10-12 episodes were enough for the audience. The main problem is that the story arc of Cole/Source evil Phoebe was rushed and not very well executed. Piper remained or tried to remain the strong person as an example for both Paige and Phoebe but ended up failing. She had no control over anything. Not to say the second arc was awful. It produced some great episodes like Fifth Halliwell. I felt so bad for Paige this episode and for some reason I couldn't help but sympathize with her due to both Piper and Phoebe leaving her alone at the end of the episode. She started to feel more and more like an outsider since Piper seemed to always side with Phoebe. Not to mention they never really allowed Paige to have a voice or opinion in the witch department. That had to do more with Piper trying to protect Paige more than anything else, but still Paige should've been more prominent in that area to learn. While keeping sole focus on Cole/Phoebe the 2nd half other aspects were ignored completely. The finale is actually one of my favorite episodes Witch Way Now. I thought it was a perfect way to end the season and symbolism of what the show stood for. Having to make their choice and realizing how that choice would affect innocents was brilliant.
I would rate the season a 4/5
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Post by Astral Vision on Feb 14, 2014 8:15:46 GMT -5
QueenPiper, I definitely agree with everything you have said about the season. xD If you prefer season three to season four, does that make your season three rating a 5/5?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2014 11:57:01 GMT -5
QueenPiper, I definitely agree with everything you have said about the season. xD If you prefer season three to season four, does that make your season three rating a 5/5? Definitely 5/5! Season 3 was a fantastic season from start to finish. Not to say the season didn't have its fair of clunkers. Wrestling With Demons and Look Who's Barking say hello. But even those episodes were very well acted/paced and had excellent sub plots. Like Phoebe's reveal that Cole was alive creating friction between her and Prue, the other being Phoebe being turned into a Banshee while Prue was turned into a dog leaving Piper to fix everything on her own. It was amusing watching her struggle and panicking over the situation. While I may personally feel Cole was a bad addition to the show, mainly because Phoebe just seemed so down and stressed the whole season, I didn't let my feelings cloud my judgement. The season had the best storyline and created some of the best episodes of the series. Not to mention this season every character had their own arc and was a fair balance between each main lead. Something season 4 lacked in its second half. |
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Post by Astral Vision on Feb 14, 2014 12:14:50 GMT -5
QueenPiper, I definitely agree with everything you have said about the season. xD If you prefer season three to season four, does that make your season three rating a 5/5? Definitely 5/5! Season 3 was a fantastic season from start to finish. Not to say the season didn't have its fair of clunkers. Wrestling With Demons and Look Who's Barking say hello. But even those episodes were very well acted/paced and had excellent sub plots. Like Phoebe's reveal that Cole was alive creating friction between her and Prue, the other being Phoebe being turned into a Banshee while Prue was turned into a dog leaving Piper to fix everything on her own. It was amusing watching her struggle and panicking over the situation. While I may personally feel Cole was a bad addition to the show, mainly because Phoebe just seemed so down and stressed the whole season, I didn't let my feelings cloud my judgement. The season had the best storyline and created some of the best episodes of the series. Not to mention this season every character had their own arc and was a fair balance between each main lead. Something season 4 lacked in its second half.  Your enthusiasm for the season is evident just within that paragraph. Too bad the show completely lost this style of writing their characters, storylines, and arcs after this season/season four. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2014 12:24:36 GMT -5
Definitely 5/5! Season 3 was a fantastic season from start to finish. Not to say the season didn't have its fair of clunkers. Wrestling With Demons and Look Who's Barking say hello. But even those episodes were very well acted/paced and had excellent sub plots. Like Phoebe's reveal that Cole was alive creating friction between her and Prue, the other being Phoebe being turned into a Banshee while Prue was turned into a dog leaving Piper to fix everything on her own. It was amusing watching her struggle and panicking over the situation. While I may personally feel Cole was a bad addition to the show, mainly because Phoebe just seemed so down and stressed the whole season, I didn't let my feelings cloud my judgement. The season had the best storyline and created some of the best episodes of the series. Not to mention this season every character had their own arc and was a fair balance between each main lead. Something season 4 lacked in its second half. Your enthusiasm for the season is evident just within that paragraph. Too bad the show completely lost this style of writing their characters, storylines, and arcs after this season/season four. Yes, I absolutely love season 3. Uh yes. Its really depressing thinking about this  . I mean, when I do my re watches I do watch seasons 5-8 also, but the lack in quality is highly noticable. If it hadn't been for my genuine interest in the characters mainly Piper/Leo and Paige then I wouldn't even bother. All shows at some point lose quality or change from its original concept. I can list a bunch of them, but they're still enjoyable for the most part. By the time I get to season 6 of Charmed I don't want to watch anymore lol. |
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thepowerofnicki
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Post by thepowerofnicki on Feb 14, 2014 20:36:35 GMT -5
I really enjoyed season 3. I always felt that season 4 while some what good, was were the wheels started to slowly fall off. They rushed the half-face Source vanquishing too fast, it should have lasted a season, with season 5 being the Cole as the new Source arch. I loved Paige but deeply felt the loss of Shannen Doherty and Prue. The only good thing this season had was a bunch of good written episodes and suspenseful storylines but the more deep inconsistencies started to form. Like the confusion over the Source and how Cole influenced him. However the Paige introduction was the best thing done, thinking back Paige seemed like such a real and human character, she actually had a personality. It is so strange to look at later seasons and to just see her as the writers space for random storylines that do not fit anywhere else.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2014 21:37:12 GMT -5
They rushed the half-face Source vanquishing too fast, it should have lasted a season, with season 5 being the Cole as the new Source arch. I agree with this completely. The Source should've been the main threat the entire season. I'm speaking of the original Source (the one with the Red hands and black face) didn't like the new actor. The first half of season 4 had a nice build up but I'm not sure what happened that all of the sudden everything started to feel like one huge rush job. However the Paige introduction was the best thing done, thinking back Paige seemed like such a real and human character, she actually had a personality. It is so strange to look at later seasons and to just see her as the writers space for random storylines that do not fit anywhere else. I love Paige in season 4. Your statement is exactly how I feel about her character. Season 4 Paige seemed more grounded. I actually liked her suttle awkwardness she felt very authentic. In season 5 she started becoming to glamorous and very different. I don't know if maybe Rose herself didn't how to portray her character. Watching Paige's evolution from season 4-8 she isn't the same person. And I don't think its for the better. Her character seemed to take a massive regression. |
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forbuss
Witch
currently watching season seven
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Post by forbuss on Feb 14, 2014 21:54:41 GMT -5
I agree with you Astral Vision that their was a switch in season 4 when Phoebe's character started to change. However, I do not constitute this as her "changing for the worst". In my mind, her change in season 4 worked because of all the evil influence that was going on with Cole and her growing baby. So if you just look at season 4, I think the change was good for the season - we even saw a little bit more of the familiar Phoebe after Cole was vanquished. I count season 5 as the season that Phoebe changed, I guess because that's when I realized that it became permanent and there was not sensible plot line to it.
I also think you *cannot* say that Phoebe changed without addressing how Piper changed in season 4. In my opinion, this is where Piper stopped being the silly goofy sarcastic emotional sister, to the snarky, mean, and bitter sister - what Es refers to as the Poor, Poor, Perils of Pitiful Piper (Es, sorry if I messed that title up haha). I think she changed much more than Phoebe in this season, and definitely for the worst.
Starting with season 5, we only saw a few glimpses of who the sister used to be in season 3 (or Paige in season 4) - most notably in season 7.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2014 22:05:53 GMT -5
I agree with you Astral Vision that their was a switch in season 4 when Phoebe's character started to change. However, I do not constitute this as her "changing for the worst". In my mind, her change in season 4 worked because of all the evil influence that was going on with Cole and her growing baby. So if you just look at season 4, I think the change was good for the season - we even saw a little bit more of the familiar Phoebe after Cole was vanquished. I count season 5 as the season that Phoebe changed, I guess because that's when I realized that it became permanent and there was not sensible plot line to it. I also think you *cannot* say that Phoebe changed without addressing how Piper changed in season 4. In my opinion, this is where Piper stopped being the silly goofy sarcastic emotional sister, to the snarky, mean, and bitter sister - what Es refers to as the Poor, Poor, Perils of Pitiful Piper (Es, sorry if I messed that title up haha). I think she changed much more than Phoebe in this season, and definitely for the worst. Starting with season 5, we only saw a few glimpses of who the sister used to be in season 3 (or Paige in season 4) - most notably in season 7. I just did a mini re watch of season 4 today and I noticed something. Just to kinda add to what you're saying about Phoebe. When the Seer is making Cole the chocolate to make Phoebe pregnant or help her concieve on that night, she also tells Cole that once she takes a bite of the chocolate that all decisions will be made in his favor. This means that Phoebe's decisions and behavior were influenced by evil the entire time? Piper, yes her character did change significantly but it was a natural change. I mean look at everything that happened from Prue's death. How do you or anyone expect her to be goofy? I would be pissed to. And yes she did become bitter after she lost her sister. Its a reason why in Charmed Again she yelled at Phoebe for going out alone with Cole to fight Shax, and pretty much gave up being a Charmed One. Hell Hath No Fury Piper takes her inner turmoil and releases it out by hunting demons without the thought of consequences. Cole makes a remark telling her that behavior was a mimic of Prue and how Prue is no longer alive. After her emotional outburst at Prue's tomb she snapped out of it and realized that it wasn't her to act that way. After that Piper stopped being the demon hunter and became super cautious. She insisted to not even bother going looking for trouble Size Matters . In the midst of all this, now theres a new person that Piper feels responsible for. I understand why Piper was hard on Paige. It wasn't to be a b**ch, it was to protect her. She even tells this to her a few times during the season. Her attitude was perfectly in sync to the theme of season 4. I don't think Piper ever really dealt with Prue's death until Season 7 "Styx Feet Under" when she understood it better. After that episode she seemed to revert back to Piper. Season 8 she also seemed more like herself. |
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Post by Astral Vision on Feb 15, 2014 11:21:16 GMT -5
Forbuss, it's kind of cool that everyone sees Phoebe's personality-changing-season as a different season. xD
I didn't mention Piper's change, because I did a season three rewatch a little while before the season four rewatch. In that rewatch, I kind of noticed that Piper starts to change (not for the worse, not yet) in season three. She starts to get a lot more confident and speaks out to demons and innocents a lot more in season three. Especially as Piper gets a lot of chances to take charge when Prue is absent or inflicted by an empath gift she was never meant to get. Then when you get to season four, she's just having to take charge a lot more, mourn Prue's death, and take on a new role. That doesn't affect her character negatively - even if I always preferred her as the middle sister. Though there is her annoying character inconsistency of being against binding a possible child's powers in an argument with Leo.
To me, Piper doesn't start to change for the worse until season five. That's when I feel like she has lost all care for anything Charmed-related.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2014 22:35:24 GMT -5
Forbuss, it's kind of cool that everyone sees Phoebe's personality-changing-season as a different season. xD I didn't mention Piper's change, because I did a season three rewatch a little while before the season four rewatch. In that rewatch, I kind of noticed that Piper starts to change (not for the worse, not yet) in season three. She starts to get a lot more confident and speaks out to demons and innocents a lot more in season three. Especially as Piper gets a lot of chances to take charge when Prue is absent or inflicted by an empath gift she was never meant to get. Then when you get to season four, she's just having to take charge a lot more, mourn Prue's death, and take on a new role. That doesn't affect her character negatively - even if I always preferred her as the middle sister. Though there is her annoying character inconsistency of being against binding a possible child's powers in an argument with Leo. To me, Piper doesn't start to change for the worse until season five. That's when I feel like she has lost all care for anything Charmed-related. I agree with everything you posted especially the last line. She was fine until she got pregnant with Wyatt. At least to me. Thats when her anxieties and fears worsened. She started to become more uninterested and protective especially over Paige doing things on her own in caution. In a Witches Tail she lets her fears over take her so much she allows an innocent to be kidnapped. She has to do a fearless spell to help do anything. In Baby's First Demon She freaks out so much she doesn't even want to go to the demonic market with Paige to find out whos after her son. In Soul Survivor (Season 6) She argues with Paige to not go looking for trouble. Her behavior worsened ever since. At least until season 7. |
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Post by Astral Vision on Feb 16, 2014 4:23:15 GMT -5
QueenPiper, I didn't think she started caring about her Charmed duties again in season seven.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 16:41:30 GMT -5
QueenPiper, I didn't think she started caring about her Charmed duties again in season seven. After Styx Feet Under she did. She even went out on numerous occasions to protect innocents after that episode. Huge difference from her attitude in season 6 where she didn't even want to be bothered with "looking for trouble". Something About Leo, Little Box Of Horrors. The problem though is that while we had great standalone episodes that showcase Piper's change in attitude, they focused way to much on the overall arc of the season putting not just her but everyone else's development hard to notice. Both Piper and Phoebe had redeeming qualities this season. But... There's a moment in the finale where Phoebe tells Piper "This might be the last time we have to use it" referring to the BOS. And she replies "I'll hold you to it" So I understand where you're coming from. Its hard to tell with her, I think she acted like she didn't care but deep down she did, why else would she feel so guilty in season 8? She was bipolar lol |
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forbuss
Witch
currently watching season seven
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Post by forbuss on Feb 18, 2014 19:04:31 GMT -5
Forbuss, it's kind of cool that everyone sees Phoebe's personality-changing-season as a different season. xD I didn't mention Piper's change, because I did a season three rewatch a little while before the season four rewatch. In that rewatch, I kind of noticed that Piper starts to change (not for the worse, not yet) in season three. She starts to get a lot more confident and speaks out to demons and innocents a lot more in season three. Especially as Piper gets a lot of chances to take charge when Prue is absent or inflicted by an empath gift she was never meant to get. Then when you get to season four, she's just having to take charge a lot more, mourn Prue's death, and take on a new role. That doesn't affect her character negatively - even if I always preferred her as the middle sister. Though there is her annoying character inconsistency of being against binding a possible child's powers in an argument with Leo. To me, Piper doesn't start to change for the worse until season five. That's when I feel like she has lost all care for anything Charmed-related. I'm not saying her shift didn't make sense, because it did. Same with how Phoebe's made sense at the time. |
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Post by primroseempath371 on Feb 20, 2014 17:42:04 GMT -5
Well I think season 4 is one of the worst seasons. I'm not sure what they were thinking in casting Paige. How do you go from Shannon to that? Rose was very unnatural especially in emotional scenes. They felt poor and forced. The Cole storyline was so played out I didn't want to stick around anymore. Phoebe turning on her sisters to be with Cole? Really? It was one of the most poorly done stories on the show, just as bad as the whole future Chris thing in season 6.
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Feb 20, 2014 19:33:36 GMT -5
*nods* Oh, yes, I agree with you completely.
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Your enthusiasm for the season is evident just within that paragraph. Too bad the show completely lost this style of writing their characters, storylines, and arcs after this season/season four.
. I mean, when I do my re watches I do watch seasons 5-8 also, but the lack in quality is highly noticable. If it hadn't been for my genuine interest in the characters mainly Piper/Leo and Paige then I wouldn't even bother. All shows at some point lose quality or change from its original concept. I can list a bunch of them, but they're still enjoyable for the most part. By the time I get to season 6 of Charmed I don't want to watch anymore lol. 
