Worst Season Opener of Charmed?

[West]

May 29, 2016 2:59:05 GMT -5 @mrmilano said:

Personal Reviews

Something Wicca This Way Comes.
If this episode isn't in your top 10 or 20 episodes...then you're not a true Charmed Fan! (hahahaha0
It's everything amazing about Charmed. An original concept. Three strong lead actresses. The story, the special effects. This episode had it going on. I give it a 10/10.

Witch Trial.
Yeah, I like this episode. It's not one of my favourites but it's lovely to see Grams. I didn't like the idea about being strongest on your anniversary and the whole power of one is actually the power of three thing. It kind of lacks originality by bringing back old demons but it's nice to see some consistency very early on in the series. Abarax just looked ridiculous but I liked how this story was connected to the Book. Prue's breaking down about losing Andy and the pressures of being the biggest sister was so heartfelt. And I guess Dan was cute. Don't really know about Jenny though...meh. 7/10

The Honeymoons Over.
Hunky Cole comes along and fun Phoebe gets a love interest. Leo proposes to Piper in the toilet. Prue is a bad a$$ witch on a mission and Daryl takes more of a lead in the show! This is the beginning of my favourite season, or favourite 2 Seasons... Season 3 and 4. I don't care what people say. I love the Piper/Leo Phoebe/Cole Prue/Paige storylines the best even if I think Season 1 and 2 are BETTER seasons.
8/10

Charmed Again Part 1:
My favourite Charmed episode. A 10/10 for me. Holly's acting is just amazeballs and really does save the show from jumping the shark. The racey Phoebe/Cole forbidden love storyline is still at play and the special effects and story is incredible. It's an episode without Prue just has Prue all over it. You can here Prue's anger through Piper and her "we need to get on with saving innocence" from Phoebe. We get to see Mom and Grams everybody onscreen and offscreen feels the loss and mourns Prue Halliwell while warmly welcoming Paige Matthews into the fold.
10/10

Mermaid Ep - This was the point of no return. I can't even be bothered writing out it's title. It's a 3/10 for me. Mermaids? wtf?

Xena Ep - Even worse. It's an entirely different show by this point. Characters are unrecognisable. Why couldn't this just cut straight to the chase and be Chris Crossed. This is when I start losing interest in the series. I no longer care about any of the sisters... maybe appart from Piper. Wyatt is boring. The magical creates and acting are cruddy. 2/10


Hindu Gods - a little better. But why so focused on Leo. Give it up! And Barbus....just die. And Lesley...puk. The only thing I like about this episode is baby Chris. Paige isn't so bad but everything else is jus annoying. 3.5/10

New identities Ep - I actually think this was well done considering how things were left in the previous Season. I was enthusiastic about Billie. Phoebe and Dex was crap. Piper and Leo were cute. Paige was becoming interesting again. I had hope and actually started to start liking the kids a whole lot more. Pity the rest of the Season sucked. 4/10

Spot on review of all of them. I cant argue with those results.

The first four vs. the later four.

Interesting that I did point out before. The first four seasons had a night start before the last four had a daytime opening start. Already like they set the tone for the season.

Plus didnt those last four have terrible openings scenes to a season. I find myself feeling its a typical episode. The tone of season 5 you can already feel is light with how they open it than how they opened those first four during a night setting.

But those first four have fantastic openings that leave me with a great impression and great way to start a season.

Season 1s is great and sets a great and serious tone for the series. Again a night start.

Season 2s with the full moon. The sisters being demon free and being attacked and loose the book. Wow a great opening start to a season.

Its interesting that when i rewatch season 3 and Prue is the first sister seen. I feel this tone and connection to Prue now going into her final season.

Season 4 with Piper in the attic with Phoebe and then Paige. Again a great way to start a season.

Watching A Witches Tail i have to cringe with the light feel and our first daytime start and Phoebe being a celebrity now with bilboards already setting up a terrible tone for that second half of the series.

Season 6 starts with Phoebe being interviewed at a summer beach event. Gosh more Phoebe as a celebrity.

Season 7 starts at the manorchanging dipers with this comedy-like music score.

Season 8 starts with the charmed ones fake funeral. Okay the only slightly decent opening than the seasons before it.

But yeah again. I prefer the way they opened those early seasons than the later ones. The serious tone was better and its not a coincidence that it was night in those ones and day in the later ones.

Gosh that might make a good poll to base it off the opening scene/teaser and how you feel about the tone it sets for the season going forward.

[Deleted]

The quality of season openers really took a nosedive after Season 4, didn't they?  Of course, Seasons 5-7 were all garbage costume episodes, while Season 8 was the poorly-written setup to a season that should've never existed.

Then again, it seems like the early halves of seasons, in general, have always been weaker, even in the early years.  Season 1 had some awkward early episodes like "Dream Sorcerer" and "Wedding From Hell," while Season 2 was outright cringeworthy before "P3 H2O" (ie. Jenny, Dishwalla, man!Prue, Tuatha, etc).  It seems like the first halves of seasons got more subjected to WB meddling and promotional crap, which led to more episodes centered around costumes or guest stars than in the latter halves.

Only Seasons 3 and 4 seemed to have strong early seasons, but those seasons, in turn, had weaker second halves than 1 and 2 (especially in the case of 4).

[StoryGirl83]

May 30, 2016 9:57:22 GMT -5 West said:

Interesting that I did point out before. The first four seasons had a night start before the last four had a daytime opening start. Already like they set the tone for the season.

Plus didnt those last four have terrible openings scenes to a season. I find myself feeling its a typical episode. The tone of season 5 you can already feel is light with how they open it than how they opened those first four during a night setting.

But those first four have fantastic openings that leave me with a great impression and great way to start a season.

Season 1s is great and sets a great and serious tone for the series. Again a night start.

Season 2s with the full moon. The sisters being demon free and being attacked and loose the book. Wow a great opening start to a season.

Its interesting that when i rewatch season 3 and Prue is the first sister seen. I feel this tone and connection to Prue now going into her final season.

Season 4 with Piper in the attic with Phoebe and then Paige. Again a great way to start a season.

Watching A Witches Tail i have to cringe with the light feel and our first daytime start and Phoebe being a celebrity now with bilboards already setting up a terrible tone for that second half of the series.

Season 6 starts with Phoebe being interviewed at a summer beach event. Gosh more Phoebe as a celebrity.

Season 7 starts at the manorchanging dipers with this comedy-like music score.

Season 8 starts with the charmed ones fake funeral. Okay the only slightly decent opening than the seasons before it.

But yeah again. I prefer the way they opened those early seasons than the later ones. The serious tone was better and its not a coincidence that it was night in those ones and day in the later ones.

Gosh that might make a good poll to base it off the opening scene/teaser and how you feel about the tone it sets for the season going forward.

Interesting. I hadn't thought about the way the first episode of a season starts. Those first scenes are definitely better in the first few. I think night has more of a scare factor and the fact that in those cases they are the beginning of a change. Season one, they are about to gain back their powers and Phoebe is moving back in. Season two a demon break about to end. Season three, Piper's about to return and the introduction into their lives of Cole. Four, the beginning of their lives without Prue and their lives with Paige. I don't really see the change in five. Phoebe's divorce, but that was already in the works, so it doesn't feel so new. The only new thing for season six's opener is Phoebe's new power, because at that point Piper's situation is not new to them. No comment on seven, but really nothing there. Now, season eight at least starts with a change. They are about to return to fighting evil even if they aren't ready to return completely yet and we have yet another introduction to a new character who is important to the season, because no matter what you think of her, Billie is important to the season.

They say that you should start a story when the character's life is about to change. Think of each season as a new story, one that should start with their lives about to change or just in the process of changing. It should never be same old, same old for a season premier.

[erikamarie]

May 31, 2016 16:23:33 GMT -5 StoryGirl83 said:

May 30, 2016 9:57:22 GMT -5 West said:

Interesting that I did point out before. The first four seasons had a night start before the last four had a daytime opening start. Already like they set the tone for the season.

Plus didnt those last four have terrible openings scenes to a season. I find myself feeling its a typical episode. The tone of season 5 you can already feel is light with how they open it than how they opened those first four during a night setting.

But those first four have fantastic openings that leave me with a great impression and great way to start a season.

Season 1s is great and sets a great and serious tone for the series. Again a night start.

Season 2s with the full moon. The sisters being demon free and being attacked and loose the book. Wow a great opening start to a season.

Its interesting that when i rewatch season 3 and Prue is the first sister seen. I feel this tone and connection to Prue now going into her final season.

Season 4 with Piper in the attic with Phoebe and then Paige. Again a great way to start a season.

Watching A Witches Tail i have to cringe with the light feel and our first daytime start and Phoebe being a celebrity now with bilboards already setting up a terrible tone for that second half of the series.

Season 6 starts with Phoebe being interviewed at a summer beach event. Gosh more Phoebe as a celebrity.

Season 7 starts at the manorchanging dipers with this comedy-like music score.

Season 8 starts with the charmed ones fake funeral. Okay the only slightly decent opening than the seasons before it.

But yeah again. I prefer the way they opened those early seasons than the later ones. The serious tone was better and its not a coincidence that it was night in those ones and day in the later ones.

Gosh that might make a good poll to base it off the opening scene/teaser and how you feel about the tone it sets for the season going forward.

Interesting. I hadn't thought about the way the first episode of a season starts. Those first scenes are definitely better in the first few. I think night has more of a scare factor and the fact that in those cases they are the beginning of a change. Season one, they are about to gain back their powers and Phoebe is moving back in. Season two a demon break about to end. Season three, Piper's about to return and the introduction into their lives of Cole. Four, the beginning of their lives without Prue and their lives with Paige. I don't really see the change in five. Phoebe's divorce, but that was already in the works, so it doesn't feel so new. The only new thing for season six's opener is Phoebe's new power, because at that point Piper's situation is not new to them. No comment on seven, but really nothing there. Now, season eight at least starts with a change. They are about to return to fighting evil even if they aren't ready to return completely yet and we have yet another introduction to a new character who is important to the season, because no matter what you think of her, Billie is important to the season.

They say that you should start a story when the character's life is about to change. Think of each season as a new story, one that should start with their lives about to change or just in the process of changing. It should never be same old, same old for a season premier.

I truly love only the openings of the season one and four and, unlike all, I like Valhalley of the Dolls which leads Charmed in shades of the light comedy, the episode is full of funny lines and I don't reckon the sisters dressed as centurions neither scandalous nor sexy


The three years of the Charmed Ones have night openings, the transition year, with the beautiful opening with Piper calling for Prue, begins almost at dawn, the years of the new Power of Three, with a less powerful witch provided with Whitelighter's powers, they start in the daylight, I had never noticed, nice remark

[summerreading]

Definitely Season 6 and 7.

[Ruth Marie]

Looking over all eight seasons, It is funny how I disliked more season openers than like.

I don't know, Charmed wasn't that great with giving us exciting opening episodes to a season. Most of the ones I like were in Fan-fics.

In fact, I disliked every opener/ender for S5-S8, apart from the end of S7. All of them were not great. But the end of S5/start of S6 is my all-time least liked transition from one season to the next.

What someone pointed out above, good remark, I didn't notice. The first three seasons had a night opening, while the rest had daylight openings. And that the transition year between the old and new set of Charmed Ones was almost dawn. Very interesting.

[cyma]

Jan 1, 2019 23:20:15 GMT -5 Ruth Marie said:

In fact, I disliked every opener/ender for S5-S8, apart from the end of S7. All of them were not great. But the end of S5/start of S6 is my all-time least liked transition from one season to the next.

Season 5 opener felt like the start of killing of Charmed sisters personalities and being replaced by Brad’s versions. There’s Cole acting like he willingly became the Source instead of being a victim of Source possession and celebrity Phoebe treating Cole as if he was an abusive husband, not to mention being cheerful about his vanquish. Paige is being annoying and could care less about being a social worker, Piper suddenly developing a crippling Prue like fear of water and Sea Hag because she’s pregnant.

Season 6 opening was where the process was complete.

There was more celebrity worship of Phoebe and her not making at all sense massive career success. We got Paige the dog walker and Piper acting all cheery because Leo drugged her because for some reason she’s weak, clingy and can’t handle Leo becoming an Elder? But then that Elder spends a massive amount of time on Earth rather than forever Up There.

What someone pointed out above, good remark, I didn't notice. The first three seasons had a night opening, while the rest had daylight openings. And that the transition year between the old and new set of Charmed Ones was almost dawn. Very interesting.

I never noticed that. Definitely interesting.

[summerreading]

Jan 2, 2019 12:18:13 GMT -5 cyma said:

Jan 1, 2019 23:20:15 GMT -5 Ruth Marie said:

In fact, I disliked every opener/ender for S5-S8, apart from the end of S7. All of them were not great. But the end of S5/start of S6 is my all-time least liked transition from one season to the next.

Season 5 opener felt like the start of killing of Charmed sisters personalities and being replaced by Brad’s versions. There’s Cole acting like he willingly became the Source instead of being a victim of Source possession and celebrity Phoebe treating Cole as if he was an abusive husband, not to mention being cheerful about his vanquish. Paige is being annoying and could care less about being a social worker, Piper suddenly developing a crippling Prue like fear of water and Sea Hag because she’s pregnant.

Season 6 opening was where the process was complete.

There was more celebrity worship of Phoebe and her not making at all sense massive career success. We got Paige the dog walker and Piper acting all cheery because Leo drugged her because for some reason she’s weak, clingy and can’t handle Leo becoming an Elder? But then that Elder spends a massive amount of time on Earth rather than forever Up There.

What someone pointed out above, good remark, I didn't notice. The first three seasons had a night opening, while the rest had daylight openings. And that the transition year between the old and new set of Charmed Ones was almost dawn. Very interesting.

I never noticed that. Definitely interesting.

You nailed it, Cyma. 

You brought up a good point. I forgot that Piper's fear of water was like what Prue experienced (well not really since she was pregnant) but you had Patty helping Piper just like she did with Prue. It would be interesting to wonder, if had Prue been alive and gotten pregnant, if those fears would suddenly come back with water, and would be fitting for her character to touch on Patty again and her dying young, and Prue not wanting the same for her own daughter. 

I'm not surprised how S5 went since that is when Alyssa and Holly became producers and Phoebe and Piper suddenly were how they and Brad saw the sisters. But they already were changing starting between S3 and S4, when Connie's vision of them started to die in the show when she left.

Interesting about the openings with daylight and nighttime. I'll say S6 was the worst opening to a season. I think at least S1-S4 had a much more interesting teaser and opening to a season. I'll have to re-watch to compare.

[cyma]

Jan 3, 2019 8:15:46 GMT -5 summerreading said:

You nailed it, Cyma. 

You brought up a good point. I forgot that Piper's fear of water was like what Prue experienced (well not really since she was pregnant) but you had Patty helping Piper just like she did with Prue. It would be interesting to wonder, if had Prue been alive and gotten pregnant, if those fears would suddenly come back with water, and would be fitting for her character to touch on Patty again and her dying young, and Prue not wanting the same for her own daughter. 

Yeah this makes more sense for Prue. For Piper, the fear just came out of nowhere, similarly like Paige's claustrophobia in the later episodes and just didn't click with their characters. And then they magically disappeared forever.

If they wanted to deal with fears, then have Phoebe be haunted and actually dealing with becoming Queen of the Underworld, being pregnant, drinking pure evil tonic everyday, losing the baby, emotionally hurting Piper in the process and the death of innocent Greg as well. Also before new Source is crowned there's a human sacrifice ritual, so whoever Cole and Phoebe sacrificed at their ceremony bring that up and deal with it.

And instead of Cole just barging in like a bull and just going back to becoming a lawyer and trying to impress Phoebe's ass to win it back and having a million powers coursing through him, have him grow a pair and just accept that going back to Phoebe would be a mistake at this moment and leave to safely deal with the million powers inside him, what he went through when Source took over him and any innocents who died and also the death of his unborn son.

Also no huge Ask Phoebe billboards which would dazzle Mylie the Mermaid to go seek an advice columnist's help. Paige's office and Paige the social worker are more qualified to deal with people who need help or protection. If mermaids are magical beings who were never part of human civilization and can recognize similar magical beings, then again Paige qualifies because she's half whitelighter rather than Phoebe's billboard being highlighted by sunshine from the heavens as if it's baby Prince Simba.

And instead of Mylie desperately needing a man's love to save her from death, how about she learns a lesson that love and relationships are complicated and 30 days is just not realistic to become human, find a place to live, find a job to support herself, and find a guy who isn't a Prince to love her.

She does begin growing attached with the human world and wants to stay a human. But the Sea Hag had placed the condition she must find someone to love her within a month or else. That's why she needs Charmed Ones help to break the pact.

Since Charmed likes to do parallels then I guess Mylie giving her life away to be human and find a guy then learning otherwise to Phoebe throwing her life away to be Queen of darkness and learning otherwise could be be done.

And also no Necron because he was pointless. It makes Sea Hag look weak and pathetic that she was just a minion of Necron and doing his bidding rather than her own selfish desire for power. Plus she was powerful enough to make tidal waves and rainstorms, cunning enough to steal immortality of mermaids over the years, yet she was crapping her robes because a demon who hovered between life and death needed the life force of others to survive like a drug addict was threatening to feed on her?   

[summerreading]

Jan 3, 2019 11:46:07 GMT -5 cyma said:

Jan 3, 2019 8:15:46 GMT -5 summerreading said:

You nailed it, Cyma. 

You brought up a good point. I forgot that Piper's fear of water was like what Prue experienced (well not really since she was pregnant) but you had Patty helping Piper just like she did with Prue. It would be interesting to wonder, if had Prue been alive and gotten pregnant, if those fears would suddenly come back with water, and would be fitting for her character to touch on Patty again and her dying young, and Prue not wanting the same for her own daughter. 

Yeah this makes more sense for Prue. For Piper, the fear just came out of nowhere, similarly like Paige's claustrophobia in the later episodes and just didn't click with their characters. And then they magically disappeared forever.

If they wanted to deal with fears, then have Phoebe be haunted and actually dealing with becoming Queen of the Underworld, being pregnant, drinking pure evil tonic everyday, losing the baby, emotionally hurting Piper in the process and the death of innocent Greg as well. Also before new Source is crowned there's a human sacrifice ritual, so whoever Cole and Phoebe sacrificed at their ceremony bring that up and deal with it.

I hate it when Charmed does that often things come out of nowhere, and never mentioned again and gone.

Now that totally works SO much better with Phoebe being haunted. Actually, S5 would have made more sense for Phoebe to quit her job, after all, she's been through in S4, her wanting to take a step back would make sense. They should have let Paige keep her promotion.

I think I've seen this brought up on the board before with having Phoebe/Paige switch roles. Phoebe quits, wanting to find herself, deal with all she has been through, and let her stay single for S5, Paige advances her job. I like this set-up for S5 better. 

And instead of Cole just barging in like a bull and just going back to becoming a lawyer and trying to impress Phoebe's ass to win it back and having a million powers coursing through him, have him grow a pair and just accept that going back to Phoebe would be a mistake at this moment and leave to safely deal with the million powers inside him, what he went through when Source took over him and any innocents who died and also the death of his unborn son.

Also no huge Ask Phoebe billboards which would dazzle Mylie the Mermaid to go seek an advice columnist's help. Paige's office and Paige the social worker are more qualified to deal with people who need help or protection. If mermaids are magical beings who were never part of human civilization and can recognize similar magical beings, then again Paige qualifies because she's half whitelighter rather than Phoebe's billboard being highlighted by sunshine from the heavens as if it's baby Prince Simba.

And instead of Mylie desperately needing a man's love to save her from death, how about she learns a lesson that love and relationships are complicated and 30 days is just not realistic to become human, find a place to live, find a job to support herself, and find a guy who isn't a Prince to love her.

Your ideas to fix this episode are perfect cyma. I'd love these to happen.

Totally love it being Paige who helps her, not Phoebe. 

She does begin growing attached with the human world and wants to stay a human. But the Sea Hag had placed the condition she must find someone to love her within a month or else. That's why she needs Charmed Ones help to break the pact.

Since Charmed likes to do parallels then I guess Mylie giving her life away to be human and find a guy then learning otherwise to Phoebe throwing her life away to be Queen of darkness and learning otherwise could be be done.

And also no Necron because he was pointless. It makes Sea Hag look weak and pathetic that she was just a minion of Necron and doing his bidding rather than her own selfish desire for power. Plus she was powerful enough to make tidal waves and rainstorms, cunning enough to steal immortality of mermaids over the years, yet she was crapping her robes because a demon who hovered between life and death needed the life force of others to survive like a drug addict was threatening to feed on her?   

I didn't get why they did that with Necron, he was pointless. Felt like just a need to drag this plot over two episodes. Because they really could have of just ended A Witches Tail at the end of Part 1, minus Phoebe wanting to stay a mermaid. I wished the Sea Hag was the villain across both episodes, they made her pointless. 

[cyma]

Jan 4, 2019 22:00:52 GMT -5 summerreading said:

Now that totally works SO much better with Phoebe being haunted. Actually, S5 would have made more sense for Phoebe to quit her job, after all, she's been through in S4, her wanting to take a step back would make sense. They should have let Paige keep her promotion.

I think I've seen this brought up on the board before with having Phoebe/Paige switch roles. Phoebe quits, wanting to find herself, deal with all she has been through, and let her stay single for S5, Paige advances her job. I like this set-up for S5 better. 

A single not obsessed with sex Phoebe would be the best thing ever.

But I see Phoebe continue to write to keep busy. And perhaps maybe even go to therapy or support group because of what she went through.

Her career skyrocketing to celebrity status with talk, radios shows, interviews at home obsessed with sex talk, orgasm and romance after what happened is as believable as Piper actually being a dinosaur all this time and was a raccoon in her past life.

But I agree with Paige part.

Paige isn't immortal, can't self-heal, would die without food, water, shelter and for that she needs money and job. Job of helping people could be achieved as a social worker who was given flexible timings. And honestly compared to Leo the handyman to Paige the social worker, I feel Paige could do more and also wouldn't end up in jail for impersonating someone who died in World War 2. But I think it would be great if Leo and Paige could've occasionally worked together on helping his charges.

Another reason Paige's sudden desire to assume whitelighter duties doesn't make sense is that in season 4, I got a strong impression that she was lonely and wanted something other than boyfriends or friends. That's why she decided to search for her birth family. So why is she suddenly so interested in learning how to be a whitelighter rather than her own family and heritage? Why is she not curious about Sam and his family as well? Why does she want to have to do anything with the Elders? They were the reason she was given up for adoption and didn't get a chance to know her sisters.

Your ideas to fix this episode are perfect cyma. I'd love these to happen.

Totally love it being Paige who helps her, not Phoebe. 

Thanks 

Paige sort of felt sidelined after season 4. Even episodes which should’ve been about her like Sam I Am and Centennial Charmed, Phoebe and Cole’s relationship was getting the spotlight.

I didn't get why they did that with Necron, he was pointless. Felt like just a need to drag this plot over two episodes. Because they really could have of just ended A Witches Tail at the end of Part 1, minus Phoebe wanting to stay a mermaid. I wished the Sea Hag was the villain across both episodes, they made her pointless. 

There are so many episodes which deserve two parter(Morality Bites, Apocalypse Not, All Hell Breaks Loose, Centennial Charmed etc.), but season 5 and season 6 opening should never have been episodes, let alone almost 2 hour long.

[Elle Em]

I agree 1,000%, Cyma and Summer Reading. The show become unrecognizable at the start of season 5.

Paige's job as a social worker was one of the best things the show ever did, and they tossed it to the side like garbage. Not only was it the type of job to keep her humble and grounded, but it was the perfect way to bring innocents her way, magical or not. And despite her somewhat wild personality, Paige actually fit as a career woman in some ways. Sure, she was disorganized and late all the time, but she cared about her work and became an assistant social worker all on her own at a very young age. Despite her teenage years and parents' deaths, she really pulled her life together.

Phoebe, on the other hand, is not the typical person to have a full-time, normal job, and I think that's great. We needed that diversity in the sisters. As someone who has personally struggled to find a normal career, it's very refreshing to watch Phoebe in the early seasons try to find something to be good at, and see her greatest strengths come from things that don't net her any money or fit into the real world so well, but are valuable nonetheless.

It would have been absolutely wonderful to see season 5 Paige keep her promotion. She would get to help people like she wanted, as well as have a flexible schedule, like her boss said. And it would make more sense of her wanting in season 4 to have a life separate from magic.

And Phoebe should absolutely have quit the advice columnist job. Even the dumbest person on the planet would realize that after abandoning her family to be with her literally evil husband and become ruler of the underworld that she was the last person qualified to give others advice. She literally chose to be evil. She shouldn't have just bounced back from that like it was nothing more than a bad dream. If anything, she needed to quit her job and take time to sort through what happened, and like someone above said, go to therapy of some sort. You don't just decide to be evil and then change your mind the very next day. She would have some serious psychological issues to work through.

I also agree that Paige should want little to do with her whitelighter half. Her longing to find her birth family, plus her whitelighter father's absence should make her want to know more about her witch heritage more than anything.

[cyma]

Jan 5, 2019 8:20:59 GMT -5 Elle Em said:

Paige's job as a social worker was one of the best things the show ever did, and they tossed it to the side like garbage. Not only was it the type of job to keep her humble and grounded, but it was the perfect way to bring innocents her way, magical or not. And despite her somewhat wild personality, Paige actually fit as a career woman in some ways. Sure, she was disorganized and late all the time, but she cared about her work and became an assistant social worker all on her own at a very young age. Despite her teenage years and parents' deaths, she really pulled her life together.

Agree.

Her parents were extremely scared she would be lost and directionless. And suddenly that is what she became when she quit her job. Plus she was motivated by her parent’s death to go to college and become a social worker. To leave it suddenly because she wants to be a Super-witch like Prue or indulge her whitelighter side or that her magical calling is out there somewhere seems like total BS.

One, Paige is a grown woman and never knew Prue. She would be highly curious about her, but wanting to be a superwitch like her? Especially with the Source dead and gone? I’m having trouble digesting that. Two, Paige’s whitelighter side and magical calling could’ve easily be indulged by her social work.

Besides, her magical calling to stay unemployed and do odd jobs all over the city ended up mostly helping magical creatures anyway. Why exactly was the magical community so helpless that they needed mortal witch or half whitelighter to solve their problems rather than being empowered to solve on their own?

Charmed Ones were not there hundreds of years ago, yet these creatures existed. So how did they manage dealing with evil then? Why do magical creatures who possess magic and have a 100 percent fighting chance have priority over clueless innocent people about to be killed by demons or children being abused by humans?

And bowing to Elders like their Kings? So the fairy king and queen don't matter to the fairies as much as Elders? Would the same apply for mermaids and elfs and whatever creature? Yet the Elders send no help whatsoever when these creatures are being slaughtered. Paige or her sisters have to help them.

It would be interesting if Paige would’ve called the Elders on their BS and ended up challenging them for their treatment of these creatures, not to mention forcibly making Sam a whitelighter again rather than let him pass away in peace and other manipulative tactics.

Phoebe, on the other hand, is not the typical person to have a full-time, normal job, and I think that's great. We needed that diversity in the sisters. As someone who has personally struggled to find a normal career, it's very refreshing to watch Phoebe in the early seasons try to find something to be good at, and see her greatest strengths come from things that don't net her any money or fit into the real world so well, but are valuable nonetheless.

Yes exactly. And Phoebe’s journey doing odd jobs in earlier seasons was a million times better compared to what we got from Paige. Paige’s jobs felt like they were done for comedy but Phoebe’s were for growing her character.

And Phoebe should absolutely have quit the advice columnist job. Even the dumbest person on the planet would realize that after abandoning her family to be with her literally evil husband and become ruler of the underworld that she was the last person qualified to give others advice. She literally chose to be evil. She shouldn't have just bounced back from that like it was nothing more than a bad dream. If anything, she needed to quit her job and take time to sort through what happened, and like someone above said, go to therapy of some sort. You don't just decide to be evil and then change your mind the very next day. She would have some serious psychological issues to work through.

Now that you put it that way, abandoning your family to be with a criminal is one thing, but the Source of All Evil is on a whole different level. So yeah definitely quit the advice columnist job. Go to therapy, help with P3 now that Piper is pregnant. Go for a Masters degree and perhaps base her thesis on a topic related to her experience. Hang out more with Victor? He’s the person who made a choice to abandon the family too. And Phoebe has been compared to him. So they would have a lot to talk about.

I also agree that Paige should want little to do with her whitelighter half. Her longing to find her birth family, plus her whitelighter father's absence should make her want to know more about her witch heritage more than anything.

Yeah and I especially wanted an episode where we met Aunt Julie and Uncle Dave. Like Paige's claustrophobia and drinking problem, they also disappeared.

Though Sam somehow was made a whitelighter again making death more meaningless than it already was with Cole's return.

[Elle Em]

Paige's parents might have had more of a handle on who she was than anybody. She did spend quite a lot of time flitting around from one meaningless thing to another, trying to find meaning when she had already found it with her job as a social worker.

I can understand Paige wanting to know more about Prue. I can even understand her wanting to be somewhat like her, considering that Piper and Phoebe held her in such high regards, and Paige wanted to be a part of the family. But Paige was a very individualistic person, and I can't see her wanting to copy Prue.

I love the idea of Phoebe spending more time with Victor, Cyma. It's true that he was the only other person to leave the family. And she also left before they became witches when she went to New York. Maybe together they could explore why they have that particular trait and become closer, sort of making up for lost time and growing more as people.

And there was a lot of Paige's life that they just abandoned. Her aunt and uncle, for one. But also, her prior alcoholism could have played more of a part than just the one mention of it. They could have even shown her having a relapse due to the stresses of suddenly being magical and having a destiny and all this pressure, and also then being tied down by magic and not being able to travel and do other things she wanted to do.

There's so many things they could have done differently.

[summerreading]

Jan 5, 2019 5:49:50 GMT -5 cyma said:

Jan 4, 2019 22:00:52 GMT -5 summerreading said:

Now that totally works SO much better with Phoebe being haunted. Actually, S5 would have made more sense for Phoebe to quit her job, after all, she's been through in S4, her wanting to take a step back would make sense. They should have let Paige keep her promotion.

I think I've seen this brought up on the board before with having Phoebe/Paige switch roles. Phoebe quits, wanting to find herself, deal with all she has been through, and let her stay single for S5, Paige advances her job. I like this set-up for S5 better. 

A single not obsessed with sex Phoebe would be the best thing ever.

It so would have been so good. Perfect for Phoebe to want to get try and find herself again, and heal following the events of the past year. Even if she were like Paige in S5, and wanted to focus on magic and devote her time to the craft or do something else as a job.

Paige's temp jobs reminded me of S1-3 Phoebe, who had all these jobs and volunteer jobs.

But I see Phoebe continue to write to keep busy. And perhaps maybe even go to therapy or support group because of what she went through.

Her career skyrocketing to celebrity status with talk, radios shows, interviews at home obsessed with sex talk, orgasm and romance after what happened is as believable as Piper actually being a dinosaur all this time and was a raccoon in her past life.

I could see her doing that to keep herself busy.

Her celebrity status was just the weirdest and worst thing any of the sisters had with a job.

Paige isn't immortal, can't self-heal, would die without food, water, shelter and for that she needs money and job. Job of helping people could be achieved as a social worker who was given flexible timings. And honestly compared to Leo the handyman to Paige the social worker, I feel Paige could do more and also wouldn't end up in jail for impersonating someone who died in World War 2. But I think it would be great if Leo and Paige could've occasionally worked together on helping his charges.

Another reason Paige's sudden desire to assume whitelighter duties doesn't make sense is that in season 4, I got a strong impression that she was lonely and wanted something other than boyfriends or friends. That's why she decided to search for her birth family. So why is she suddenly so interested in learning how to be a whitelighter rather than her own family and heritage? Why is she not curious about Sam and his family as well? Why does she want to have to do anything with the Elders? They were the reason she was given up for adoption and didn't get a chance to know her sisters.

Paige could do so much good with that job, and it was the perfect asset to bring innocents and plots to the series.

Felt very out of character for her to suddenly take an interest in that part of her, and about Sam and his family. But then again, the show basically forgot all about Paige's life pre meeting her sisters. They never existed anymore.

Your ideas to fix this episode are perfect cyma. I'd love these to happen.

Totally love it being Paige who helps her, not Phoebe. 

Thanks 

Paige sort of felt sidelined after season 4. Even episodes which should’ve been about her like Sam I Am and Centennial Charmed, Phoebe and Cole’s relationship was getting the spotlight.

She really did feel that way when it came to the Phoebe/Cole relationship and eventually the Piper/Leo and children's saga in S6. But neither Paige or Phoebe were the stars anymore.

There are so many episodes which deserve two parter(Morality Bites, Apocalypse Not, All Hell Breaks Loose, Centennial Charmed etc.), but season 5 and season 6 opening should never have been episodes, let alone almost 2 hour long.

Couldn't agree more. Most of the episodes that deserved them were most of the ones you mentioned.

Might have been a demand from the WB to do all these two-hour opener/enders, and the writers had to come up with a plot that could drag for two episodes.

Jan 5, 2019 8:20:59 GMT -5 Elle Em said:

I agree 1,000%, Cyma and Summer Reading. The show become unrecognizable at the start of season 5.

Paige's job as a social worker was one of the best things the show ever did, and they tossed it to the side like garbage. Not only was it the type of job to keep her humble and grounded, but it was the perfect way to bring innocents her way, magical or not. And despite her somewhat wild personality, Paige actually fit as a career woman in some ways. Sure, she was disorganized and late all the time, but she cared about her work and became an assistant social worker all on her own at a very young age. Despite her teenage years and parents' deaths, she really pulled her life together.

Phoebe, on the other hand, is not the typical person to have a full-time, normal job, and I think that's great. We needed that diversity in the sisters. As someone who has personally struggled to find a normal career, it's very refreshing to watch Phoebe in the early seasons try to find something to be good at, and see her greatest strengths come from things that don't net her any money or fit into the real world so well, but are valuable nonetheless.

It would have been absolutely wonderful to see season 5 Paige keep her promotion. She would get to help people like she wanted, as well as have a flexible schedule, like her boss said. And it would make more sense of her wanting in season 4 to have a life separate from magic.

And Phoebe should absolutely have quit the advice columnist job. Even the dumbest person on the planet would realize that after abandoning her family to be with her literally evil husband and become ruler of the underworld that she was the last person qualified to give others advice. She literally chose to be evil. She shouldn't have just bounced back from that like it was nothing more than a bad dream. If anything, she needed to quit her job and take time to sort through what happened, and like someone above said, go to therapy of some sort. You don't just decide to be evil and then change your mind the very next day. She would have some serious psychological issues to work through.

I also agree that Paige should want little to do with her whitelighter half. Her longing to find her birth family, plus her whitelighter father's absence should make her want to know more about her witch heritage more than anything.

That's true, you would be surprised that so many people don't find their calling and know what they want to do in life with a job until late 20s or even 30s, having all these jobs and figuring stuff out.

I'd have liked if Phoebe did take the time to know what she wanted. Season 5 should have been the season Phoebe focused on herself and her healing from Cole and all the emotions and pain from S4.

Don't get why they bothered bringing Sam back, I loved his death in P3 H20. It isn't like he left an impact after.

Jan 5, 2019 20:26:11 GMT -5 Elle Em said:

Paige's parents might have had more of a handle on who she was than anybody. She did spend quite a lot of time flitting around from one meaningless thing to another, trying to find meaning when she had already found it with her job as a social worker.

I can understand Paige wanting to know more about Prue. I can even understand her wanting to be somewhat like her, considering that Piper and Phoebe held her in such high regards, and Paige wanted to be a part of the family. But Paige was a very individualistic person, and I can't see her wanting to copy Prue.

I love the idea of Phoebe spending more time with Victor, Cyma. It's true that he was the only other person to leave the family. And she also left before they became witches when she went to New York. Maybe together they could explore why they have that particular trait and become closer, sort of making up for lost time and growing more as people.

And there was a lot of Paige's life that they just abandoned. Her aunt and uncle, for one. But also, her prior alcoholism could have played more of a part than just the one mention of it. They could have even shown her having a relapse due to the stresses of suddenly being magical and having a destiny and all this pressure, and also then being tied down by magic and not being able to travel and do other things she wanted to do.

There's so many things they could have done differently.

The plots with Paige wanting to know more about Prue and the stuff she got in S5, were alright. Charmed produced some amazing novels especially ones with Paige and her dealing with her sisters and stories I'd wish were in the series than what they did do with Paige.

Phoebe spending more time with Victor might have been good.

Don't get me started on Paige and her family before meeting her sisters. They totally made them out to not exist. But that was Kern making it like Paige was always a halliwell.

I'd really have liked a relapse due to the stresses she faced, and this being what bonds her sisters, and maybe brings her aunt and uncle into the picture again. Where they can learn more about Paige growing up.

Season 5 could have been a really good season, if they just left Cole dead in S4, and done all the suggestions we talked about regarding Paige and Phoebe and done better by their characters.

[imdb lives on]

I have to pick season six. It set the tone for the rest of the season and wasn't anything special. It should've been one episode and over with. I rather they had gone darker after the light heartedness of five

[peytonmarie]

I went with A Witch's Tail because it marks the beginning of the (very dragged out) end.

It establishes the shift of focus to Piper and Leo and their children. Theirs was the central family from this point on and Phoebe and Paige were "aunts" first and foremost.

Phoebe's character starting going downhill in S4 but S5 really cemented it and she/her storylines never recovered. Plus, bringing Cole back in this episode/season was an utter travesty.

So many of the later issues with the show can trace their roots back to this particular episode, I think. So even though it's not the "worst" single episode on the list in terms of viewing enjoyment, I can't blame the later openers for what was started here.

[cyma]

Jan 3, 2019 8:15:46 GMT -5 summerreading said:

You brought up a good point. I forgot that Piper's fear of water was like what Prue experienced (well not really since she was pregnant) but you had Patty helping Piper just like she did with Prue. It would be interesting to wonder, if had Prue been alive and gotten pregnant, if those fears would suddenly come back with water, and would be fitting for her character to touch on Patty again and her dying young, and Prue not wanting the same for her own daughter.

So I did a small re-watch and Piper's fear was leaving her baby like Patty did instead of fear of water. But shouldn't that kind of fear occur after the baby is born? Shouldn't the first fear be losing the baby while battling a threat now pregnant? Or demon constantly attacking the house now that she's pregnant? 

And then there is this:

Leo: Piper, you're going to be a mom, you need to start thinking about the safety of our daughter.

Piper: Honey, sweets, toots... I appreciate that you're very concerned but I am still a witch and we do still have innocents to protect and demons to fight. I can't just crawl in a hole.

Leo: Piper, when are you gonna accept the fact that you're pregnant?

Piper: When are you gonna stop being so overprotective?

Leo: Look, all I'm suggesting is that you slow down.

Piper: Okay, Leo, I'm not gonna be one of those women that sits on her ass and eats Bonbons throughout her whole pregnancy. That's just not the woman you married. Besides, generations of Halliwell women raised perfectly normal children before me. They all got through it and so will I.

I'm not a doctor, but once you're pregnant, does it mean whether you faced complications before or not, it’s medically okay to put yourself in highly stressful situations with the very real possibility of physical harm to yourself and the baby again? Especially when those exact same highly stressful situations caused the conception problems in the first place.

But most importantly, would a woman who lost her big sister then faced the real possibility of losing her baby sister to evil, then after having trouble conceiving was told the very real possibility of never having kids and was so ashamed that she hid it from her husband and only shared with her half-sister she recently discovered would suddenly puff her chest and have this careless and arrogant attitude now that she's pregnant? 

Phoebe: She took our innocent? How could you let that happen?

Piper: I don't know. I think I had a panic attack. I couldn't breathe or move.

Phoebe: Okay, but she took our innocent.

Leo: Let's give Piper a break, okay.

Piper: No, she's right, I froze up, Mylie's gone and it's my fault.

Leo: No, it's not your fault. It's your hormones. Your maternal instincts are kicking in.

Paige: More like taking over.

Leo: It's natural for a mother to feel protective of her baby.

The writers are making an attempt to write conflict between sisters with Leo acting like Piper’s support, but it falls flat. From all the personalities established of the sisters and just general common sense, Piper should already be deeply concerned about the safety of her unborn child and making arrangements other than a nursery without Leo hovering and constantly reminding her and somehow trying to parallel Patty’s death to it.

Patty and now Prue's deaths are like dark clouds always hovering. Ofcourse Piper would never forget that.

Paige already knowing how much trouble Piper went through conceiving comes across as an insensitive jerk about making a comment like that. And Phoebe had already been pregnant and then lost a baby so unless Phoebe is trying to overcompensate by saving innocents because she chose a side that killed innocents, their reactions and interactions make no sense.   

Also when did Leo become an expert on hormone and maternal instincts and what’s natural for a woman to be feeling during pregnancy to be commenting constantly on and on about it to the sisters while they act clueless or careless?

Did he treat injuries of wounded soldiers or was he an obstetrician for women in whichever location he was posted? Or somehow being a whitelighter magically gives you knowledge about these things?

[Elle Em]

Jan 12, 2019 6:45:51 GMT -5 cyma said:

But most importantly, would a woman who lost her big sister then faced the real possibility of losing her baby sister to evil, then after having trouble conceiving was told the very real possibility of never having kids and was so ashamed that she hid it from her husband and only shared with her half-sister she recently discovered would suddenly puff her chest and have this careless and arrogant attitude now that she's pregnant? 

I agree with everything, but especially this. Piper was the type of person who was best portrayed when she was softened by her difficult experiences, not hardened by them. 

And it wasn't helped by the fact that she became self-healing either. That in particular took the humanity right out of the situation. We have the fragility of life portrayed with Patty and Prue's early deaths, plus the difficulty of conceiving in the first place, but all that is pushed aside because Piper's unborn child has God-like powers, and we know that at the very least, she'll survive the next nine months it takes to deliver her baby.

It would have been great to see her slow down and be humbled by the idea that she's carrying a baby and needs to be more safety-minded, or to see the drama of a pregnant woman in dangerous situations. But we didn't get that because somebody thought it would be cute or cool or whatever to have an unborn child performing magic. 

[Esmeralda]

Jan 12, 2019 8:11:50 GMT -5 Elle Em said:

Jan 12, 2019 6:45:51 GMT -5 cyma said:

But most importantly, would a woman who lost her big sister then faced the real possibility of losing her baby sister to evil, then after having trouble conceiving was told the very real possibility of never having kids and was so ashamed that she hid it from her husband and only shared with her half-sister she recently discovered would suddenly puff her chest and have this careless and arrogant attitude now that she's pregnant? 

I agree with everything, but especially this. Piper was the type of person who was best portrayed when she was softened by her difficult experiences, not hardened by them. 

And it wasn't helped by the fact that she became self-healing either. That in particular took the humanity right out of the situation. We have the fragility of life portrayed with Patty and Prue's early deaths, plus the difficulty of conceiving in the first place, but all that is pushed aside because Piper's unborn child has God-like powers, and we know that at the very least, she'll survive the next nine months it takes to deliver her baby.

It would have been great to see her slow down and be humbled by the idea that she's carrying a baby and needs to be more safety-minded, or to see the drama of a pregnant woman in dangerous situations. But we didn't get that because somebody thought it would be cute or cool or whatever to have an unborn child performing magic. 

More importantly to me, someone (Kern) had decided that Piper's baby - A BOY - was going to be more powerful than the Charmed Ones combined, turning a show all about girl power and the sisterhood into "females can't be happy unless they are married with three children..." Suddenly Piper - the leader of the Charmed Ones and the most powerful witch - was just the mother of the Twice-Blessed Brat and not much else, and a show that was about real situations despite the magic very simply stopped taking itself seriously.

The funny thing about all of this is this is the only season when Piper is my favorite sister - but that's more due to PhoeME and Ditzy Valley Girl Paige than Piper. And it's because it's the only S4-8 season when she's not Poor, Poor Pitiful Piper. Had she become the Piper you're talking about, it would've made sense, but this didn't - and I liked her that way! I'm trying to figure out what that says about me...