Views on Forever Charmed as the Series Finale

[Deleted]

There seems to be mixed views about this. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts

[Deleted]

It was absolute rubbish. 

Alyssa and Rose being absent for most of it, the pointless guest stars, the time travel aspects that made no sense, the horrible ending to the Jenkins sisters storyline, and, to top it all off, the flash forward (that could have been cut out and nothing meaningful would be missing from the episode).

This script should have been fed through the nearest paper shredder before anyone could produce it.

[Deleted]

To repost this yet again:

I know I have said that Season 8, in general, was a terrible, pointless season that should've never been made in the first place, and most people wouldn't disagree with that, but the absolute WORST part of the season, by far, wasn't Billie, Christy, Dex, Coop, or any of the other various WB-mandated guest stars. It wasn't even the terrible writing for the sisters, Leo and Darryl being written off, or the massive budget cuts that crippled the show's storytelling.

No, it was the finale. All of it.

I could deal with Season 8 existing had its finale been something similar to the show's two Series Fauxnales, Season 4's "Witch Way Now?" and Season 7's "Something Wicca This Way Goes," with the focus on the sisters going up against the Big Bad, fulfilling their destiny, and then walking up the steps of the Manor wondering "What next?" just like they did at the end of the very first episode. Nothing more, nothing less.

Instead, we got the insultingly terrible disaster of an episode known as "Forever Charmed."

The episode was already crippled off the bat by Alyssa and Rose's inability to be on set for most of the filming, thanks to prior engagements (family for the former, Grindhouse for the latter), so the show's very own series finale was forced to primarily revolve around just one of the sisters. You know, I can understand wanting to give Piper the spotlight. Holly was the last actor from the Original Pilot to still be with the show, and she was definitely a stronger performer than Alyssa and Rose. But, still, Phoebe and Paige were no less important than Piper was, and this was the f**k**g series finale. It was supposed to be about ALL of the Charmed Ones, not just one of them.

And, by ALL of the Charmed Ones, I mean ALL of them. Okay, I get it if Shannen returning just wasn't going to happen. Apparently, she *had* been asked, and she turned it down, thinking the script was crap, and the budget probably wouldn't have been able to afford her, anyways. But, that still didn't meant that Prue couldn't be shown. What about child Prue? Or, they could've done what the comics eventually did, and reincarnated Prue into another body. There were ways to show her without showing Shannen, and to just "honor" her with a throwaway line about how she was "destined" to die so Paige could take her place is f**k**g insulting to both Shannen and the character. Even "Something Wicca" was more respectful of her with the Astral Projection and the door closing at the end, despite not even being the real series finale. What a terrible end to such an important, beloved character.

And, speaking of guest stars, did we REALLY need to see the entire extended family, both past, present, and future? For all of the talk about how Prue's return would've made the episode all about her, the likes of Patty, Grams, Chris, and Wyatt already stole the show just fine. Patty and Grams wore out their welcome ages ago, and are part of the reason why death became so meaningless to begin with. And, there was absolutely no point in bring back adult Chris and Wyatt, especially if a TCS spinoff was never going to happen. Victor, I could've dealt with, because A) he was alive, B) he was from the present, and C) he had already been serving a significant role throughout the season as the boys' babysitter. The others were completely unnecessary and were only a waste of screentime.

And, speaking of how we got all of those relatives onscreen to begin with...

The time travel plot was STUPID AS f**k! The whole idea of Cupid rings being able to let you travel across time contradicts so many things on the show, it's not even funny. What happened to Tempus being the only being on either side who could manipulate time? And, why were the Cleaners ever needed in the first place when Cupids could do the same thing and more with their rings? And, why couldn't Chris just get a hold of a Cupid or Cupid ring when he wanted to go back to save Wyatt?

And, did these people just completely forget about "Heartbreak City"? What happened to the whole "only Cupids can use Cupid rings" thing, or "losing their rings makes Cupids weaker" thing. Even if the stupid ring could travel through time, Piper should've NEVER been able to use it, especially without Poop there.

Also, the show's utter carelessness in regards to changing the timeline was just insulting, especially, since it, yet again, contradicted MORE things. Did they not remember from "That 70s Episode" that Grams already knew she was going to die? Plus, we saw in "Pre-Witched" that she summoned Patty's ghost all the time while she was still alive, so she shouldn't have been shocked at all to see a living Patty. And, did they REALLY think it was a good idea to just flat-out tell Patty that she was going to have another daughter with Sam and then, die tragically young, and that the same was going to happen to Prue about 25 years later? Thanks for f**k**g up your own timeline so horribly.

And, Christy's ending was also horrendously anticlimactic. We spend much of the season building up this arc on whether or not Billie could save her, only to have her just get blown up by a fireball, like she was just another throwaway Demon of the Week. f**k character development, the show's ending and The Billie Show ain't gonna happen, so who gives a damn? Real or not, thank goodness Tim got a hold of her and gave her the ending she deserved.

And, that flashforward, ugh...

We've already said a lot about the infamous last few seconds of the show, and it doesn't bear repeating--It was pointless, it ruined spinoff opportunities, it was terribly-written, and it sent horrible messages in regards to women. However, as Lupa pointed out, it also framed the ENTIRE f**k**g SERIES as being the long story of a senile old Piper, so the events of the show we had just watched may or may not have actually happened. That's not just normal bad, that's St. Elsewhere levels of bad. Realizing that only makes me hate this episode even more.

"Forever Charmed" isn't just a bad episode.  I literally find it offensive.  If I was able to wipe just one Charmed episode out of existence, that would be the one.

[erikamarie]

I understand that the fans wished to see for the last time the most beloved characters but I'ld do without Patty and Penny and I'ld like better if it finished with a flashback: the sisters start to write their story and appear the most meaningful images of their eight years as witches

[Deleted]

And, that flashforward, ugh...

We've already said a lot about the infamous last few seconds of the show, and it doesn't bear repeating--It was pointless, it ruined spinoff opportunities, it was terribly-written, and it sent horrible messages in regards to women. However, as Lupa pointed out, it also framed the ENTIRE f**k**g SERIES as being the long story of a senile old Piper, so the events of the show we had just watched may or may not have actually happened. That's not just normal bad, that's St. Elsewhere levels of bad. Realizing that only makes me hate this episode even more.

If you want the rat that sank the revival ship, the flash forward is it.  We know what happens to the sisters, no more Demon attack.  The flash forward specifically said so.  They all settled down, Phoebe and Paige started shooting out babies, the Charmed Ones became the Brady Bunch, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Paul Ruditis hates the flash forward, Pat Shand hates the flash forward, because it creatively tied one hand behind their backs before they even started working on the comic.  They can't have Phoebe dump Mr. Cardboard and hook up with Kira, because the flash forward said she married the stalker, uh, love of her life.

The flash forward is a big reason why that, when talk of Charmed coming back starts up, many just advocate hitting the reset button and starting fresh.

[Melinda Halliwell]

May 11, 2016 11:32:45 GMT -5 @rexandhannah1 said:

It was absolute rubbish. 

Alyssa and Rose being absent for most of it, the pointless guest stars, the time travel aspects that made no sense, the horrible ending to the Jenkins sisters storyline, and, to top it all off, the flash forward (that could have been cut out and nothing meaningful would be missing from the episode).

This script should have been fed through the nearest paper shredder before anyone could produce it.

So true Tim. You made me laugh thanks.

[Esmeralda]

It was the perfect ending for the alternate-universe spin-off, "The Perils of Poor, Poor Pitiful Piper" (aka S4-8) and should've been entitled "Forever Piper" since we really have no idea what happened to Phoebe or Paige - it was just all about Piper. Of course, that was Alyssa's and Rose's fault - not even around for the series finale - but even so...

As an episode, it's not bad. As a season finale it's not bad - there are several I hate a whole lot more - but as a series finale, it simply stunk because it was so dagnab inconsistent with the rest of Charmed. During the summer after it aired, I used the spoilers to write my own version, "Charmed Forever", and it's my all-time most popular fanfic with over 250 reviews at fanfiction.net, even if it's not the way I would've actually ended Charmed - just the way I would've fixed it.

Here were all the things I wanted to (and did) fix:

1. How Piper survived that explosion at the end of 'Kill Billie, Vol 2' without a broken bone since her powers should not have been able to protect her from the explosion.

2. Why the Hollow didn’t go out of Piper and Billie until a being of good and a being of evil said the spell on the Hollow’s box

3. How Piper and Dumain, both non-cupids, were able to use a cupid’s ring, which is only used to amplify and direct a cupid's power

3. Why we only saw Piper and Leo as old and not Phoebe, Coop, Paige or Henry

4. Why Old Piper and Old Leo in the future knew what Piper and Leo were going to do, but Wyatt and Chris had no idea and neither did S6 Chris

5. Why Patty’s idea of three generations of Halliwells tapping into the Power of Three worked, when only three sisters descended from Melinda Warren are supposed to be able to tap into the Power of Three

6. Why Penny didn’t recognize Piper from 'That 70’s Episode' when she said a spell to delete it from little Prue and little Piper's memory, not from hers and Patty's.

7. Why Wyatt ever had his powers in the future, if he’d lost them to the Jenkinses as a toddler

8. Why Henry wasn’t part of the final all-generation hug and why Chris didn't hug Leo

9. How the Charmed Ones were able to write down what would happen in the future when they hadn’t lived it yet

10. How Leo, an ex-whitelighter with no powers, could possibly handle magical children while trying to teach them

Had they just fixed those and ended it just three months later with the three sisters walking up the steps, admiring the pictures on the wall which would include shots of all of them, not just Piper and her family - especially the shot of Little Prue and Little Piper with their hands on Patty's tummy, so Prue would've been part of it - I would've enjoyed it as a finale, because it would've truly been "Forever CHARMED" and not "Forever Piper, I mean Forever Crap, I mean Forever Charmed".

[Chrisaholic]

I was mainly looking forward to see the adult boys again, though it made no sense in the whole storyline. And as well the whole time travel with Cupido's ring. That's why I was delighted, yet also disappointed. I would have expected more, especially regarding to Prue, Cole, Darryl and Andy.

[erikamarie]

May 11, 2016 18:10:20 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

It was the perfect ending for the alternate-universe spin-off, "The Perils of Poor, Poor Pitiful Piper" (aka S4-8) and should've been entitled "Forever Piper" since we really have no idea what happened to Phoebe or Paige - it was just all about Piper. Of course, that was Alyssa's and Rose's fault - not even around for the series finale - but even so...

As an episode, it's not bad. As a season finale it's not bad - there are several I hate a whole lot more - but as a series finale, it simply stunk because it was so dagnab inconsistent with the rest of Charmed. During the summer after it aired, I used the spoilers to write my own version, "Charmed Forever", and it's my all-time most popular fanfic with over 250 reviews at fanfiction.net, even if it's not the way I would've actually ended Charmed - just the way I would've fixed it.

Here were all the things I wanted to (and did) fix:

1. How Piper survived that explosion at the end of 'Kill Billie, Vol 2' without a broken bone since her powers should not have been able to protect her from the explosion.

2. Why the Hollow didn’t go out of Piper and Billie until a being of good and a being of evil said the spell on the Hollow’s box

3. How Piper and Dumain, both non-cupids, were able to use a cupid’s ring, which is only used to amplify and direct a cupid's power

3. Why we only saw Piper and Leo as old and not Phoebe, Coop, Paige or Henry

4. Why Old Piper and Old Leo in the future knew what Piper and Leo were going to do, but Wyatt and Chris had no idea and neither did S6 Chris

5. Why Patty’s idea of three generations of Halliwells tapping into the Power of Three worked, when only three sisters descended from Melinda Warren are supposed to be able to tap into the Power of Three

6. Why Penny didn’t recognize Piper from 'That 70’s Episode' when she said a spell to delete it from little Prue and little Piper's memory, not from hers and Patty's.

7. Why Wyatt ever had his powers in the future, if he’d lost them to the Jenkinses as a toddler

8. Why Henry wasn’t part of the final all-generation hug and why Chris didn't hug Leo

9. How the Charmed Ones were able to write down what would happen in the future when they hadn’t lived it yet

10. How Leo, an ex-whitelighter with no powers, could possibly handle magical children while trying to teach them

Had they just fixed those and ended it just three months later with the three sisters walking up the steps, admiring the pictures on the wall which would include shots of all of them, not just Piper and her family - especially the shot of Little Prue and Little Piper with their hands on Patty's tummy, so Prue would've been part of it - I would've enjoyed it as a finale, because it would've truly been "Forever CHARMED" and not "Forever Piper, I mean Forever Crap, I mean Forever Charmed".

Although I understand that the end had to take into account the wishes of many fans, I agree with much of your points

They are above all two things I can not stand

Cupid's ring: detestable solution, apart from the correct observation that Piper'ld not use it, Piper'ld be able to invent a spell, a potion, a spell plus a potion, to go back
Patty’s idea of being her and her mother able to tap the Power of Three: they were witches, powerful witches but not Charmed Ones
Piper'ld have to summon Prue (to hell with the whims of the actress, Prue'ld have taken a different aspect to cheat the Elders) and maybe to use her first born's power to go back

The others are venial inconsistencies, Wyatt and Chris's cameo made no sense, but the fans were hoping to see them for the last time, Leo able to handle magical children, well, he'll have to learn it as father of two powerful sons

Maybe we saw only Old Leo and Old Piper Because Phoebe and Paige are dead or because they only are living in the Manor and all those children are Wyatt and Chris'

Instead I loved the scene where they begin to write about their past and then talk about their lives, as voices from the future, even if I'ld have rather to see a series of images from the past, or better still if they closed the circle: Phpebe starts writing and appears the imagine of her who returns from New York under the rain

[Deleted]

I wonder if FC would have been better had Rose and Alyssa been there the whole time.  Clearly, the reason Paige and Phoebe were killed off, temporarily, is because the writers knew that Rose and Alyssa would be away for a short time (Rose to film Grindhouse, Alyssa because of family issues). 

I've always speculated that they had to be finished by a certain date, because Paramount was looking to boot them off the lot to make room for another show or movie.  If not, why didn't they just wait for Rose and Alyssa to get back?

If Rose and Alyssa had been there, they wouldn't have had to do that rubbish time travel stuff.  They wouldn't have had to drag Patty and Penny into the proceedings?  They might have had some good Paige/Henry scenes.  They might have come up with a half decent episode.

Alas, we'll never know.

[Deleted]

It's so funny that Kern excuses not bringing back Shannen because the cost of paying her would mean no other guest stars.... Most fans would've been perfectly happy, no ELATED, to have Prue back instead of more obligatory Very Special Guest Appearances from the dead relatives. Personally, I think the finale should've focused entirely on the four sisters and the Jenkinses.

[Deleted]

It's so funny that Kern excuses not bringing back Shannen because the cost of paying her would mean no other guest stars.... Most fans would've been perfectly happy, no ELATED, to have Prue back instead of more obligatory Very Special Guest Appearances from the dead relatives.

Patty and Penny had long wince worn out their welcome by this point.  We didn't need to have them hauled out for another appearance just because Rose and Alyssa needed time off.

[yanpo]

I was satisfied by how Christy was killed by her sister, and how much her sister suffered from doing so. That made the whole episode worth it. I would have also kicked Billie to the curve, as well as the entire magical community for being such ingrates.

[Melinda Halliwell]

Jun 9, 2016 13:47:02 GMT -5 yanpo said:

I was satisfied by how Christy was killed by her sister, and how much her sister suffered from doing so. That made the whole episode worth it. I would have also kicked Billie to the curve, as well as the entire magical community for being such ingrates.

I'm sorry but I wouldn't have when the real evil that year wasn't Billie or Christy but the Charmed Ones themselves actually after everything they'd done beforehand since Prue died ignoring their witch duties of not protecting innocents and caring more about Wyatt and Chris than them, moaning how magic screwed up their lives wanting them to be normal all the time, only choosing when they fought demons not when they should've and then being selfish to no thanks.

Christy was kidnapped and brainwashed/raised by demons to hate and destroy the sisters with her sibling Billie. She was the ultimate innocent here who the Charmed Ones should've tried helping rather than nearly kill her from the onset which would've been cold bloodied murder like Rick season 6 had they succeeded ultimately.

They were so full of themselves by then except Paige slightly of course that they didn't care really and excepted the magical community to drop everything and help them despite what happened previously.

The magical community had every right to say, "Screw you." Really and not help them just as Billie and Christy were right in their character assessment of the sisters personalities obviously.

[yanpo]

Jun 9, 2016 18:01:51 GMT -5 Melinda Halliwell said:

Jun 9, 2016 13:47:02 GMT -5 yanpo said:

I was satisfied by how Christy was killed by her sister, and how much her sister suffered from doing so. That made the whole episode worth it. I would have also kicked Billie to the curve, as well as the entire magical community for being such ingrates.

I'm sorry but I wouldn't have when the real evil that year wasn't Billie or Christy but the Charmed Ones themselves actually after everything they'd done beforehand since Prue died ignoring their witch duties of not protecting innocents and caring more about Wyatt and Chris than them, moaning how magic screwed up their lives wanting them to be normal all the time, only choosing when they fought demons not when they should've and then being selfish to no thanks.

Christy was kidnapped and brainwashed/raised by demons to hate and destroy the sisters with her sibling Billie. She was the ultimate innocent here who the Charmed Ones should've tried helping rather than nearly kill her from the onset which would've been cold bloodied murder like Rick season 6 had they succeeded ultimately.

They were so full of themselves by then except Paige slightly of course that they didn't care really and excepted the magical community to drop everything and help them despite what happened previously.

The magical community had every right to say, "Screw you." Really and not help them just as Billie and Christy were right in their character assessment of the sisters personalities obviously.

Christy was an evil witch. Evil witches and as well as Warlocks (all humans) have been targets for vanquishing since season 1 of Charmed. She knew enough about what is good to understand the difference between one and the other. She knew enough about what is good to "act the part" when Billie and the Sisters were around, and go completely evil when they weren't. She always knew what she was doing, and rather enjoyed it.

The Charmed Ones weren't under any obligation to save the world or save innocents. Yet they still chose to do so consistently despite how unrewarding the job was, and eventually, like anyone that has been in a battlefield too long, they began suffering from battle fatigue and trauma, and so they chose to treat themselves in between vanquishes so as not to go insane.

[Deleted]

Christy was an evil witch. Evil witches and as well as Warlocks (all humans) have been targets for vanquishing since season 1 of Charmed. She knew enough about what is good to understand the difference between one and the other. She knew enough about what is good to "act the part" when Billie and the Sisters were around, and go completely evil when they weren't. She always knew what she was doing, and rather enjoyed it.

That is complete and utter rubbish.

First of all, Warlocks and Evil Witches were never "targeted" for vanquishing.  The Charmed Ones were never some supernatural hit squad.  Yes, they had the right to vanquish Warlocks/Evil Witches if said beings were in the process of attacking them, but that's it.  Hunting Warlocks down was not part of their mandate.

As for evil humans, killing them is murder, plain and simple.  Paige could have orbed the gun right out of Rick's hands.  Phoebe could have then easily used her martial arts to subdue him.  Then it's just a matter of calling Daryl to come and pick him up.  Besides, the Halliwell sisters had dealt with evil humans before (the two oxygen wasters in Secrets And Guys, Abbey the Bartender in Sight Unseen) without resorting to killing them.  How was Rick any different.

As for Christy Jenkins, she had been kidnapped at a young age and brainwashed for 15 years.  If the demons told her that 2+2=5, she would have believed it.  You can't erase such programming in so short a time.

Christy was like those poor kids of the Hitler Youth.  For years they had been brainwashed to believe that "Hitler is God".  Because of that, they willing marched into the Russian guns and got mowed down because of that.  After World War II, those that survived were deprogrammed by the Allies and reentered society.

The same should have been done for Christy.  If the Charmed Ones had not just stood there going "Duhhhhhh..." they could have easily overpowered Christy.  Then it's just a matter of binding her powers, and then deprogramming her.  It would take time, but it could be done.

Christ was the victim of Brad Kern's crappy writing.  A decent writer could have saved her.

[sol]

Christy was like those poor kids of the Hitler Youth. For years they had been brainwashed to believe that "Hitler is God". Because of that, they willing marched into the Russian guns and got mowed down because of that. After World War II, those that survived were deprogrammed by the Allies and reentered society.

Deprogrammed?
They weren't robot,maybe exalted people and certainly the Nazi propaganda had had bad influence on young people, but the brainwashing is something else

The allies deprogrammed no one, they used the interesting scientists and enlisted some criminal, read Eric Lichtblau's The Nazis Next Door: How America Became a Safe Haven for Hitler's Men,he got a Pulitzer, he  is certainly more authoritative than some obscure, pseudo historian blog

[Assassin Witch]

Jun 9, 2016 21:17:20 GMT -5 yanpo said:

The Charmed Ones weren't under any obligation to save the world or save innocents. Yet they still chose to do so consistently despite how unrewarding the job was, and eventually, like anyone that has been in a battlefield too long, they began suffering from battle fatigue and trauma, and so they chose to treat themselves in between vanquishes so as not to go insane.

This has always been a thing for me. They (the magical community, family, etc.) always expected TCO to be the protectors. And I understand that they had a choice at the end of S4, but I don't believe that choice was between more Destiny and no powers? They fulfilled their destiny by vanquishing "The Source Of All Evil" (what an idiotic concept; is there no more evil with him gone?!?!?). And yet in S5, more of the magical community is introduced and dependent on The Charmed Ones. So why can't they assume the community will help in return?

You could easily see the "battle fatigue and trauma" as the seasons went on and it was taking a toll in many aspects of their lives. 

And after all the years, yes, the morality issues of the show are a mess. The writing is a mess. (And granted I've only watched S8 once, 10 years ago, so memory is off.) But they weren't overthinking things, and maybe they should have. Honestly, the fact that Billie was around as long as she was seems strange for the sisters because they haven't allowed it in the past. They seemed to be over it and ready for someone else to step in, instead of them. But Christy comes in, and all they see is "evil" (at whatever point that is). They're not out to "save everyone". And in the past, they've tried to save someone from evil; doesn't work.

[Deleted]

Jun 5, 2016 0:08:45 GMT -5 @rexandhannah1 said:

It's so funny that Kern excuses not bringing back Shannen because the cost of paying her would mean no other guest stars.... Most fans would've been perfectly happy, no ELATED, to have Prue back instead of more obligatory Very Special Guest Appearances from the dead relatives.

Patty and Penny had long wince worn out their welcome by this point.  We didn't need to have them hauled out for another appearance just because Rose and Alyssa needed time off.

If I had been Kern, I would've refused to film the finale without Alyssa and Rose's full involvement. Or otherwise, I would've brought back Shannen - a Piper/Prue-centric episode would've been better than another Family Reunion Timehop.

[Deleted]

The Book Of Shadows, Volume Two, has an interview with Brad Kern.  In said interview, Kern said that, when he first saw the budget (or lack thereof) for Season Eight, he considered saying no to making the season.

I wish he'd done that.  Or, even better, he should have demanded the WB give them a decent budget.  If they refused, he would walk and take Charmed with him.  What did he have to lose.

I think the WB would have caved.  As I said, the only reason Season Eight was commissioned was to fill a hole in their schedule.  What choice did the WB have?