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Post by Hexenwerk on Jun 4, 2018 18:11:54 GMT -5
I looooved this season! I think it's my favorite! The show has a subtler feel in this season and the threats hit closer to home; I don't get scared easily, but episodes like "Dream Sorcerer" definitely make me squirm because I'm aware of how that's such a real situation that was just barely filtered through a magical lens.
The gothic atmosphere of the first episode had me hooked from the start, but I actually stopped watching for months after watching "Thank You For Not Morphing" because I just disliked that episode so much and it was a super confusing one. I understand the progression of events better now that I've rewatched it a few times, but whenever I recommend Charmed to people I always tell them to continue watching after that episode.
I definitely have noticed that the attitude younger versus older viewers have toward this season tend to be contrary.
Come to think of it, part of the reason why I was least fond of Prue in the beginning of watching may have been because of how much attention she received compared to the other sisters.
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Post by Ruth Marie on Jun 30, 2018 21:34:24 GMT -5
I looooved this season! I think it's my favorite! The show has a subtler feel in this season and the threats hit closer to home; I don't get scared easily, but episodes like "Dream Sorcerer" definitely make me squirm because I'm aware of how that's such a real situation that was just barely filtered through a magical lens. The gothic atmosphere of the first episode had me hooked from the start, but I actually stopped watching for months after watching "Thank You For Not Morphing" because I just disliked that episode so much and it was a super confusing one. I understand the progression of events better now that I've rewatched it a few times, but whenever I recommend Charmed to people I always tell them to continue watching after that episode. I definitely have noticed that the attitude younger versus older viewers have toward this season tend to be contrary. Come to think of it, part of the reason why I was least fond of Prue in the beginning of watching may have been because of how much attention she received compared to the other sisters. Yeah it's pretty unpopular but the video at the end was the best part. Lots in S1 were so special. I think the direction and progression of the sisters growing closer and especially Phoebe and Prue makes rewatching this season good. It's too bad we only get this one season with Andy who was a great asset to the show and sisters. |
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Post by Hexenwerk on Jul 1, 2018 1:51:10 GMT -5
I looooved this season! I think it's my favorite! The show has a subtler feel in this season and the threats hit closer to home; I don't get scared easily, but episodes like "Dream Sorcerer" definitely make me squirm because I'm aware of how that's such a real situation that was just barely filtered through a magical lens. The gothic atmosphere of the first episode had me hooked from the start, but I actually stopped watching for months after watching "Thank You For Not Morphing" because I just disliked that episode so much and it was a super confusing one. I understand the progression of events better now that I've rewatched it a few times, but whenever I recommend Charmed to people I always tell them to continue watching after that episode. I definitely have noticed that the attitude younger versus older viewers have toward this season tend to be contrary. Come to think of it, part of the reason why I was least fond of Prue in the beginning of watching may have been because of how much attention she received compared to the other sisters. Yeah it's pretty unpopular but the video at the end was the best part. Lots in S1 were so special. I think the direction and progression of the sisters growing closer and especially Phoebe and Prue makes rewatching this season good. It's too bad we only get this one season with Andy who was a great asset to the show and sisters. That video was absolutely the best part of the episode. Agreed! One thing I did especially like about Andy was that he called Prue out, forcing her to examine her actions, and his interactions with Piper and Phoebe were really sweet; the sibling-like regard they had for each other was nice to see in a show where the sisters had so few people they could turn to outside of family. |
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Post by Ruth Marie on Jul 4, 2018 3:22:23 GMT -5
Yeah it's pretty unpopular but the video at the end was the best part. Lots in S1 were so special. I think the direction and progression of the sisters growing closer and especially Phoebe and Prue makes rewatching this season good. It's too bad we only get this one season with Andy who was a great asset to the show and sisters. That video was absolutely the best part of the episode. Agreed! One thing I did especially like about Andy was that he called Prue out, forcing her to examine her actions, and his interactions with Piper and Phoebe were really sweet; the sibling-like regard they had for each other was nice to see in a show where the sisters had so few people they could turn to outside of family.  I really liked his interactions with Piper and Phoebe, and how much he cared for them. I agreed, and why I wished he could have continued that sibling-like outside of the family relationship. Had Leo stayed gone after S1, I'm sure he'd continue that purpose, and be like the brother they never had. |
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Post by Hexenwerk on Jul 4, 2018 16:31:48 GMT -5
That video was absolutely the best part of the episode. Agreed! One thing I did especially like about Andy was that he called Prue out, forcing her to examine her actions, and his interactions with Piper and Phoebe were really sweet; the sibling-like regard they had for each other was nice to see in a show where the sisters had so few people they could turn to outside of family. :D I really liked his interactions with Piper and Phoebe, and how much he cared for them. I agreed, and why I wished he could have continued that sibling-like outside of the family relationship. Had Leo stayed gone after S1, I'm sure he'd continue that purpose, and be like the brother they never had. Yeah! I see in a lot of television how there is little effort to show a character's interactions with their girlfriend or boyfriend's siblings and I'm just like: ??? That is a crucial way of showing character and relationships outside of the obvious and it's just being ignored! So I like how in Charmed there was that sense of shared history, even going so far as to have Andy as a child in "That Seventies Episode"! It was so cute when little Piper froze little Andy. Probably! It's funny how I didn't like Andy much when I first watched the show, and only with later rewatches did he grow on me. |
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Post by Ruth Marie on Jul 4, 2018 22:39:08 GMT -5
I really liked his interactions with Piper and Phoebe, and how much he cared for them. I agreed, and why I wished he could have continued that sibling-like outside of the family relationship. Had Leo stayed gone after S1, I'm sure he'd continue that purpose, and be like the brother they never had. Yeah! I see in a lot of television how there is little effort to show a character's interactions with their girlfriend or boyfriend's siblings and I'm just like:  That is a crucial way of showing character and relationships outside of the obvious and it's just being ignored! So I like how in Charmed there was that sense of shared history, even going so far as to have Andy as a child in "That Seventies Episode"! It was so cute when little Piper froze little Andy. Probably! It's funny how I didn't like Andy much when I first watched the show, and only with later rewatches did he grow on me. That's true, they really don't develop it enough. It's just the said character and the partner. I like shows they show the relationships outside of the couple. I really liked Andy and felt over the years, my love of him grows more and more. The show made their first worst decision at the end of S1, as much as the show derails once we reach Season 3, or 4 or 5. It's the end of S1 to start of S2, that sees the show undergoing its first direction change. Not that I didn't hate S2, just I noticed it did feel different compared to S1. |
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Post by Elle Em on Jul 5, 2018 6:43:43 GMT -5
That's another reason I love Andy. He and Piper and Phoebe all obviously knew each other and were familiar with each other. It added so much to the show that they had that brother figure. It was great for their interactions we saw in the show, as well as what we could infer their childhoods were like together. It gave it so much substance, something that a lot of shows and other things like movies don't do. It's usually that the significant other is separate from the family of the person they're with, and that's just boring and mostly unrealistic.
I agree, Ruth Marie, that a major shift occurred with the way they ended season 1. They chose the mortal cop to die over the magical love interest, and it changed absolutely everything. We got whitelighters and elders and Up There and effortless orbing and no-drama healing and half whitelighters/half witches and overly magical children, all of which made it easier for there to be things like leprechauns and mermaids and ogres, and led to an unrecognizable show when compared to season 1.
We could have had the no-nonsense cop and eventually his partner as the mortal side to the sisters' magic, and a show that was about the effect of magic on their lives as much as it was about the magic itself.
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Post by Hexenwerk on Jul 5, 2018 15:27:36 GMT -5
That's another reason I love Andy. He and Piper and Phoebe all obviously knew each other and were familiar with each other. It added so much to the show that they had that brother figure. It was great for their interactions we saw in the show, as well as what we could infer their childhoods were like together. It gave it so much substance, something that a lot of shows and other things like movies don't do. It's usually that the significant other is separate from the family of the person they're with, and that's just boring and mostly unrealistic. I agree, Ruth Marie, that a major shift occurred with the way they ended season 1. They chose the mortal cop to die over the magical love interest, and it changed absolutely everything. We got whitelighters and elders and Up There and effortless orbing and no-drama healing and half whitelighters/half witches and overly magical children, all of which made it easier for there to be things like leprechauns and mermaids and ogres, and led to an unrecognizable show when compared to season 1. We could have had the no-nonsense cop and eventually his partner as the mortal side to the sisters' magic, and a show that was about the effect of magic on their lives as much as it was about the magic itself. Exactly, I agree with all of these observations! I do feel that they made an attempt in season two to keep connected with the mortal side of things such as with the introduction of Dan, but with the love triangle between him, Piper, and Leo, and the way that love triangle concluded, it ended up sending the message that the mortal side of things won't work. |
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Post by Ruth Marie on Jul 6, 2018 0:08:26 GMT -5
That's another reason I love Andy. He and Piper and Phoebe all obviously knew each other and were familiar with each other. It added so much to the show that they had that brother figure. It was great for their interactions we saw in the show, as well as what we could infer their childhoods were like together. It gave it so much substance, something that a lot of shows and other things like movies don't do. It's usually that the significant other is separate from the family of the person they're with, and that's just boring and mostly unrealistic. I agree, Ruth Marie, that a major shift occurred with the way they ended season 1. They chose the mortal cop to die over the magical love interest, and it changed absolutely everything. We got whitelighters and elders and Up There and effortless orbing and no-drama healing and half whitelighters/half witches and overly magical children, all of which made it easier for there to be things like leprechauns and mermaids and ogres, and led to an unrecognizable show when compared to season 1. We could have had the no-nonsense cop and eventually his partner as the mortal side to the sisters' magic, and a show that was about the effect of magic on their lives as much as it was about the magic itself. Exactly, I agree with all of these observations! I do feel that they made an attempt in season two to keep connected with the mortal side of things such as with the introduction of Dan, but with the love triangle between him, Piper, and Leo, and the way that love triangle concluded, it ended up sending the message that the mortal side of things won't work. They sure did. Doesn't help they already set up Piper's arc in Morality Bites seeing her future with Leo and child. Which then was what drove their story to marriage and kids. I think S3 is where they shifted completely to magical and demonic stories. By S5 everything they did with the mortal side was gone. Including non magical villains and connecting with the mortal side of things. |
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Post by Hexenwerk on Jul 6, 2018 18:58:39 GMT -5
Exactly, I agree with all of these observations! I do feel that they made an attempt in season two to keep connected with the mortal side of things such as with the introduction of Dan, but with the love triangle between him, Piper, and Leo, and the way that love triangle concluded, it ended up sending the message that the mortal side of things won't work. They sure did. Doesn't help they already set up Piper's arc in Morality Bites seeing her future with Leo and child. Which then was what drove their story to marriage and kids. I think S3 is where they shifted completely to magical and demonic stories. By S5 everything they did with the mortal side was gone. Including non magical villains and connecting with the mortal side of things. No argument there! I was watching season three episodes a few weeks ago and I'd been watching episodes from the first two seasons immediately before, so the contrast was striking. I was flipping through the list of episodes on Netflix going like "??? I'm trying to have a marathon of episodes that have implications mostly for the mortal side of things, and surely there wasn't this much of a dearth of them in season three?" Season five is when I really started checking out of the show (season four had its moments, but still enough good stuff to keep me a happily willing viewer) even though there were a number of episodes I liked in it and I think, because I basically binged Charmed in the span of a few weeks or so when I first watched it, the change in story focus was particularly discomfiting in how strikingly different it was from when I started the show; it just didn't feel like the same show, and it almost felt like a rip-off because by that time I'd developed an expectation as to what Charmed would deliver. Even though I like quite a few individual episodes from the fifth season, they don't stand out to me as character-revealing and/or pertinent to life in the way that episodes from earlier seasons did. They're excellent for the purpose of entertainment, but they still typically fail to have that nugget of life truth at their core. The fifth season is actually pretty good when judged by itself, but aspects of it–like the lack of mortal-relevant stories and relationships–are definitely lacking when its held up to other seasons. |
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Post by Granny Charmed on Jul 6, 2018 19:56:27 GMT -5
I think dears it just comes back to S1 and S2 is much more balanced. Also helps that the original creator of the sisters was still apart of the show, leaving someone like Kern in charge who didn't create the sisters, he only had the creation for Cole, Chris, and the many supporting characters. Plus many of the other writers long gone. It's no wonder the importance of the sisters love interests became bigger.
But Connie wanted the show to be more driven and focused on the sisters, the innocents, and standalone episodes. Not like S3-8 was. I just don't think Kern put any passion into the show, it was just a paycheck to him, and whatever gets him money and the show picked up for more seasons.
The fifth season could have been wonderful, If it fixed Paige and Phoebe's arcs and characters, ditched Cole and went back to a more standalone season like S2, with Piper's pregnancy being the only story-arc like S2 did with the love triangle.
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Post by Ruth Marie on Jul 6, 2018 20:44:25 GMT -5
They sure did. Doesn't help they already set up Piper's arc in Morality Bites seeing her future with Leo and child. Which then was what drove their story to marriage and kids. I think S3 is where they shifted completely to magical and demonic stories. By S5 everything they did with the mortal side was gone. Including non magical villains and connecting with the mortal side of things. No argument there! I was watching season three episodes a few weeks ago and I'd been watching episodes from the first two seasons immediately before, so the contrast was striking. I was flipping through the list of episodes on Netflix going like " I'm trying to have a marathon of episodes that have implications mostly for the mortal side of things, and surely there wasn't this much of a dearth of them in season three?" Season five is when I really started checking out of the show (season four had its moments, but still enough good stuff to keep me a happily willing viewer) even though there were a number of episodes I liked in it and I think, because I basically binged Charmed in the span of a few weeks or so when I first watched it, the change in story focus was particularly discomfiting in how strikingly different it was from when I started the show; it just didn't feel like the same show, and it almost felt like a rip-off because by that time I'd developed an expectation as to what Charmed would deliver. Even though I like quite a few individual episodes from the fifth season, they don't stand out to me as character-revealing and/or pertinent to life in the way that episodes from earlier seasons did. They're excellent for the purpose of entertainment, but they still typically fail to have that nugget of life truth at their core. The fifth season is actually pretty good when judged by itself, but aspects of it–like the lack of mortal-relevant stories and relationships–are definitely lacking when its held up to other seasons. S1 and S2 have more rewatch appeal to just jump in at any episode and not worry about the storyarcs. It really does feel like a ripoff or alternate series. I can't imagine how Constance M Burge felt on how her show turned out. If I was her I'd not want to watch and find out. |
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Post by prudencehalliwell on Jul 24, 2018 19:40:47 GMT -5
I really liked his interactions with Piper and Phoebe, and how much he cared for them. I agreed, and why I wished he could have continued that sibling-like outside of the family relationship. Had Leo stayed gone after S1, I'm sure he'd continue that purpose, and be like the brother they never had. Yeah! I see in a lot of television how there is little effort to show a character's interactions with their girlfriend or boyfriend's siblings and I'm just like: That is a crucial way of showing character and relationships outside of the obvious and it's just being ignored! So I like how in Charmed there was that sense of shared history, even going so far as to have Andy as a child in "That Seventies Episode"! It was so cute when little Piper froze little Andy. Probably! It's funny how I didn't like Andy much when I first watched the show, and only with later rewatches did he grow on me. I always wonder how the sisters would be if they had him around through the seasons. But then I can't bare them doing the same thing to him that they did to Darryl in S6. |
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Post by Esmeralda on Jul 24, 2018 23:05:56 GMT -5
Yeah! I see in a lot of television how there is little effort to show a character's interactions with their girlfriend or boyfriend's siblings and I'm just like: That is a crucial way of showing character and relationships outside of the obvious and it's just being ignored! So I like how in Charmed there was that sense of shared history, even going so far as to have Andy as a child in "That Seventies Episode"! It was so cute when little Piper froze little Andy. Probably! It's funny how I didn't like Andy much when I first watched the show, and only with later rewatches did he grow on me. I always wonder how the sisters would be if they had him around through the seasons. But then I can't bare them doing the same thing to him that they did to Darryl in S6. I never considered that - Phoebe and Paige might have stolen Andy's soul without his permission just like they did with Darryl or have Andy land in jail and eventually have Andy's wife (poor Ghost Prue!) talk him into moving elsewhere... Just like Prue, I think I'm glad Andy died when he did. No, I would've liked to have seen him die in 'All Hell Breaks Loose' trying to save the sisters. Then both he and Prue wouldn't have been ruined and maybe Leo would've stayed in Season One where he belongs so he and Piper wouldn't have been ruined. |
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Post by prudencehalliwell on Jul 25, 2018 17:29:26 GMT -5
I always wonder how the sisters would be if they had him around through the seasons. But then I can't bare them doing the same thing to him that they did to Darryl in S6. I never considered that - Phoebe and Paige might have stolen Andy's soul without his permission just like they did with Darryl or have Andy land in jail and eventually have Andy's wife (poor Ghost Prue!) talk him into moving elsewhere... Just like Prue, I think I'm glad Andy died when he did. No, I would've liked to have seen him die in 'All Hell Breaks Loose' trying to save the sisters. Then both he and Prue wouldn't have been ruined and maybe Leo would've stayed in Season One where he belongs so he and Piper wouldn't have been ruined. Me too. Love Andy but can't bare seeing him ruined too. Like you suggested him dying in S3 is fine. Least we would get a few more seasons out of him but not enough more so he is treated by bad writing. So interesting to wonder how things play out without Leo. Even if Andy were still gone by S3. Cole wouldn't last after 5. So S6 particularly turns out different. Depends if Piper got pregnant still even without Leo around. |
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Post by Esmeralda on Jul 25, 2018 17:47:49 GMT -5
If Chris was half-firefighter rather than half-whitelighter, it would've been SO much better!
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Post by prudencehalliwell on Jul 25, 2018 17:55:27 GMT -5
If Chris was half-firefighter rather than half-whitelighter, it would've been SO much better! Exactly! |
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Post by Polarity on Jul 31, 2018 11:37:04 GMT -5
greeneyedgirl Avatar Jun 4, 2018 5:21:08 GMT -4 greeneyedgirl said: Esmeralda Avatar Jun 3, 2018 9:53:12 GMT -4 Esmeralda said: That's only because Shannen was always supposed to be the star - it was never supposed to be an ensemble series the way the reboot is supposed to be. I soured on Prue at the beginning because she was such a stick-in-the-mud and by that point my heart was totally won over by Phoebs. That changed during 'The Witch is Back' when I found myself loving all three sisters, which remained until Piper told Leo that he was the one in S2 and she started treating him so shabbily and he let her. Oh, okay, thank you! That makes a lot more sense! I did not start watching the series until it was already established as more of an ensemble series and Paige was introduced, so I can see how my view might have already been unknowingly biased. I am really happy they ended up making it more focused on all three sisters instead of just one - I think that is part of what makes the series so good! That's quite okay. It's amazing how much when a fan started watching Charmed )their reaction towards the show. But that's okay - it's all part of the fun of being fans - our differing opinions. For example, that's what I feel about S6-8 - that it should've been about all three sisters and not just about Piper and her husband and her sons, and, oh, yes, didn't she have sisters and didn't they have powers, too? I always count S6 as THE PERILS OF POOR, POOR PITIFUL PIPER STARRING HOLLY MARIE COMBS, BRIAN KRAUSE AND DREW FULLER, featuring Dorian Gregory, Alyssa Milano and Rose McGowan. Had I started watching Charmed in Season Six rather than Season One, I never would've kept watching because between Poor, Poor Pitiful Piper, PhoeME and Ditzy Valley Girl Paige (the lighter her hair, the lower her IQ - the peroxide went straight to her brain - I started liking her (and only her) in Season 7 - just about when her hair went back to being dark and she looked like a Halliwell again), I didn't like any of the starring characters. But it seems like the younger the member was when they started watching, the more they preferred the later seasons, and I started watching in my 40's, so I have a totally different viewpoint than someone who started watching as a teen or younger. Greeneyedgirl, I didn't agree with you at first, but after thinking about it, I realized they did do a lot of Prue-central episodes. It didn't change my opinion of the season at all, or Prue,  but she was one of the two reasons I started watching the show, so maybe that was it? I have gotten irritated with each character at some point, but probably cause they kind of become like extended family that we occasionally get irritated with, haha. Esmeralda, your view on S6-8 took me a minute (as you can tell, I'm a Piper fan, though I love all the sisters) but I realized what you were saying, too. Season 6 really did focus on Piper's family, and Paige did kind of become "stronger" after that. I never really saw it like that before. Maybe because I have always liked how Piper grew into her role? I really didn't like how they portrayed Phoebe in her high school reunion episode in season 6. I just thought she would've acted more "I don't care what they think", especially after Piper's, and how she realized that wasn't important. I would've liked to have seen Season 1-2 Phoebe go to her reunion! |
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Post by Esmeralda on Jul 31, 2018 18:42:43 GMT -5
Esmeralda, your view on S6-8 took me a minute (as you can tell, I'm a Piper fan, though I love all the sisters) but I realized what you were saying, too. Season 6 really did focus on Piper's family, and Paige did kind of become "stronger" after that. I never really saw it like that before. Maybe because I have always liked how Piper grew into her role? I really didn't like how they portrayed Phoebe in her high school reunion episode in season 6. I just thought she would've acted more "I don't care what they think", especially after Piper's, and how she realized that wasn't important. I would've liked to have seen Season 1-2 Phoebe go to her reunion! Sure, that makes sense. I'm sure all of the Piper-fans enjoyed having all the attention on her and her family. Oh, I would've liked to have seen Phoebs (she died when she lied to Prue about vanquishing Belthazor, I mean Cole, and became PhoeME) at her reunion. Because you're right - no way she'd act that way at her reunion after what happened to Piper during hers. That was the biggest problem with so many different writers on Classic Charmed - they all saw the sisters differently and tended to forget what others had written. Or Kern or the actresses forgot what they were like (especially when Holly and Alyssa were busy turning Piper and Phoebe into idealized versions of themselves...) and didn't fix the scripts. |
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Post by Polarity on Jul 31, 2018 19:44:19 GMT -5
Esmeralda, your view on S6-8 took me a minute (as you can tell, I'm a Piper fan, though I love all the sisters) but I realized what you were saying, too. Season 6 really did focus on Piper's family, and Paige did kind of become "stronger" after that. I never really saw it like that before. Maybe because I have always liked how Piper grew into her role? I really didn't like how they portrayed Phoebe in her high school reunion episode in season 6. I just thought she would've acted more "I don't care what they think", especially after Piper's, and how she realized that wasn't important. I would've liked to have seen Season 1-2 Phoebe go to her reunion! Sure, that makes sense. I'm sure all of the Piper-fans enjoyed having all the attention on her and her family. Oh, I would've liked to have seen Phoebs (she died when she lied to Prue about vanquishing Belthazor, I mean Cole, and became PhoeME) at her reunion. Because you're right - no way she'd act that way at her reunion after what happened to Piper during hers. That was the biggest problem with so many different writers on Classic Charmed - they all saw the sisters differently and tended to forget what others had written. Or Kern or the actresses forgot what they were like (especially when Holly and Alyssa were busy turning Piper and Phoebe into idealized versions of themselves...) and didn't fix the scripts. I have to admit, I did enjoy the focus on Piper and her family. I especially liked the Wyatt and Chris episodes. I think one of my all time favorites is "Chris-Crossed". I would have also liked to see more of the other sisters and maybe some future episodes where we got to see glimpses of what their families "might be". I have always loved Phoebe (I really have always liked all the sisters, honestly) but I can see how her personality changed during the course of the seasons and she became more into herself. I never saw it years ago, but as I watch it now, I see it more. I think because I was/am a fan of Alyssa and Phoebe, I didn't want to "see" how the character had changed. I used to think people were being "mean" to Phoebe.  Now I see what you mean. I did enjoy Julian McMahon on Charmed, but only at first. After a while, I thought that had run its course and he needed to leave. I loved when he came back during Drake's run (who shouldn't have EVER left! ) because he just looked good (lol) and of course, it was a Piper/Leo episode. I just do wish they had written that Phoebe-reunion episode better! You are right about the different writers! There are so many inconsistencies it drives all of us up the wall, I think! They needed to have some of the fans review the scripts first, and check for things like that. I think you may be right about the actresses forgetting what they were like, too. I can see changing some, as we all change through the years, but not as much as it happened sometimes. |
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That is a crucial way of showing character and relationships outside of the obvious and it's just being ignored! So I like how in Charmed there was that sense of shared history, even going so far as to have Andy as a child in "That Seventies Episode"! It was so cute when little Piper froze little Andy. Probably! It's funny how I didn't like Andy much when I first watched the show, and only with later rewatches did he grow on me.
but she was one of the two reasons I started watching the show, so maybe that was it? I have gotten irritated with each character at some point, but probably cause they kind of become like extended family that we occasionally get irritated with, haha.
Now I see what you mean. I did enjoy Julian McMahon on Charmed, but only at first. After a while, I thought that had run its course and he needed to leave. I loved when he came back during Drake's run (who shouldn't have EVER left!