ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
|
Post by ljones on Dec 17, 2009 12:08:14 GMT -5
It's "Centennial Charmed". They hardly got anything right in that episode.
|
|
|
|
Post by StoryGirl83 on Dec 17, 2009 12:20:59 GMT -5
I disagree. They are not the same character and this is my reasoning for this.
1. Ava is a surgeon. She's not a baby doctor or a gynecologist. She's a surgeon. Eve clearly was knowlegable in the care of pregnant women. Yes, we saw Ava greet Piper at the end of "The Eyes Have It", but that does not mean she was the one who was going to help Piper with her pregnancy. And that also might have been a regular check-up. I got the idea that Ava past on that to Eve.
2. In "Centennial Charmed" they clearly said that is was one thing for Eve to know that the girls used magic to save her gypsy tribe. It was another for her to see that magic. Ava saw magic. She even used it.
Those two things combined with the different name, different actress lead me to believe that they are different characters. They shouldn't have chosen a name so simliar to Ava, but I am convinced that Eve is not Ava, just one of the gypsies in Ava's tribe who has a talent for gynecology.
|
|
ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
|
Post by ljones on Dec 19, 2009 13:30:13 GMT -5
"Centennial Charmed" is also the episode that stated that Paige was born in 1975. This is impossible since Phoebe was born in 1975 and Paige, in 1977.
Did the writers establish that Eve and Ava were different people?
|
|
|
|
Post by Quadquetra on Dec 19, 2009 13:44:20 GMT -5
No they didnt, they even said and I quote
So i think if she was a different person they shouldn't have said anything about Gypsy's at all. I mean maybe shes from another off camera demon fight but I think its her and they just recasted her.
|
|
|
|
Post by StoryGirl83 on Dec 19, 2009 21:16:19 GMT -5
It's funny how we see the exact same thing and come to opposite conclusions. See it was that last line that convinced me that she wasn't the same person as Ava from "The Eyes Have It". Based off that it appears that the woman they are talking about hasn't seen magic. And yet, Ava has. Gypsy magic in the form of Mulo, the living dead.: Ava: I saw... She came to me. Mulo.
Paige: Mulo?
Eva: The living dead. I never believed in it before.
Piper: It's okay, just tell us what happened.
Ava: It was a code blue. My patient, she died... and then it was Aunt Lydia. Nobody else saw. I thought I was going crazy. And then there is the whole spell thing, to get rid of Oren. I will however conceed that Ava, though a surgeon was helping Gypsies without healthcare at the end and there is this conversation: Paige: You don't want to be late for your appointment now, do you?
Piper: What appointment?
Phoebe: Your appointment with Ava. Meet your new doctor.
Piper: O-O-Oh...
(She laughs.)
Paige: She's also gonna teach us how to be your midwives.
Piper: Midwives? No! See, 'cause I'm not having this thing naturally. (Phoebe makes breathing noises. Piper tries to cover her mouth.) No. I need lots and lots of western medicine.
(Paige and Ava laugh.)
Ava: Piper...
Piper: No offence.
Ava: Piper, you know, I trusted you to carry on my heritage, now you can trust me to carry on yours.
(Ava takes Piper to the door. Piper points at her sisters and laughs. They go inside and Ava closes the door. The Waffediyok symbol has been painted on the door.) I still don't think that line fits with Ava, because she clearly saw magic, there's and her own, but it is possible, since she did agree to do this. It is also possible (and this is what I have believed on that) that she got another Gypsy from her tribe who knew more about babies than she did to help Piper. This would fit the line about saving the Gypsy tribe, since it would be someone from the same tribe, and it would fit the line about not seeing magic, because to our knowledge only Lydia, Madame Theresa, and Ava saw magic. ljones, wow. That is kind of sad that they messed up on that date. |
|
|
|
Post by marienomad on Dec 20, 2009 5:49:30 GMT -5
It's still sad that they couldn't trust Eve with their secret despite her magic knowledge. And they didn't even think that she might be exposed to magic use already.
I don't really remember anyone except for Paige willingly showing she was a witch to a mortal.
|
|
Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920 
|
Post by Esmeralda on Dec 20, 2009 10:17:55 GMT -5
Well, after what happened to Prue when magic was exposed, you can't really blame them for that.
|
|
|
|
Post by Fourever Charmed on Dec 20, 2009 10:50:42 GMT -5
It's funny how we see the exact same thing and come to opposite conclusions. See it was that last line that convinced me that she wasn't the same person as Ava from "The Eyes Have It". Based off that it appears that the woman they are talking about hasn't seen magic. And yet, Ava has. Gypsy magic in the form of Mulo, the living dead.: Ava: I saw... She came to me. Mulo.
Paige: Mulo?
Eva: The living dead. I never believed in it before.
Piper: It's okay, just tell us what happened.
Ava: It was a code blue. My patient, she died... and then it was Aunt Lydia. Nobody else saw. I thought I was going crazy. And then there is the whole spell thing, to get rid of Oren. I will however conceed that Ava, though a surgeon was helping Gypsies without healthcare at the end and there is this conversation: Paige: You don't want to be late for your appointment now, do you?
Piper: What appointment?
Phoebe: Your appointment with Ava. Meet your new doctor.
Piper: O-O-Oh...
(She laughs.)
Paige: She's also gonna teach us how to be your midwives.
Piper: Midwives? No! See, 'cause I'm not having this thing naturally. (Phoebe makes breathing noises. Piper tries to cover her mouth.) No. I need lots and lots of western medicine.
(Paige and Ava laugh.)
Ava: Piper...
Piper: No offence.
Ava: Piper, you know, I trusted you to carry on my heritage, now you can trust me to carry on yours.
(Ava takes Piper to the door. Piper points at her sisters and laughs. They go inside and Ava closes the door. The Waffediyok symbol has been painted on the door.) I still don't think that line fits with Ava, because she clearly saw magic, there's and her own, but it is possible, since she did agree to do this. It is also possible (and this is what I have believed on that) that she got another Gypsy from her tribe who knew more about babies than she did to help Piper. This would fit the line about saving the Gypsy tribe, since it would be someone from the same tribe, and it would fit the line about not seeing magic, because to our knowledge only Lydia, Madame Theresa, and Ava saw magic. ljones, wow. That is kind of sad that they messed up on that date. I thought they were referring to her never seeing witch/whitelighter magic/their individual powers, as opposed to Gypsy magic. |
|
|
|
Post by Quadquetra on Dec 20, 2009 10:55:36 GMT -5
Ok I guess she could be different but come on i dont think the writers would give her a name so close to Ava. Im in agreement with Fourever Charmed, they probably meant their active powers.
|
|
Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
|
Post by Esmeralda on Dec 20, 2009 11:28:00 GMT -5
I agree. I think it's just a typical Kern inconsistency.
|
|
|
|
Post by Fourever Charmed on Dec 20, 2009 12:04:31 GMT -5
Ok I guess she could be different but come on i dont think the writers would give her a name so close to Ava. Im in agreement with Fourever Charmed, they probably meant their active powers. Plus, the recast looks as though they attempted to make the woman look like Emmanuelle Vaugier (sp?). (And as far as recasts though, that was a much better recast if they meant for them to be the same person than they did recasting Victor.) If they were meant to be two different people, it seems really odd that there would just happen to be another Gypsy in the clan who happened to look so much like Ava (who doesn't look a thing like her Aunt Lydia, which makes me think she most likely gets her darker skin and dark hair from her father's family instead of her mother's Gypsy family) and then give her a name so close to Ava, if they meant for them to be two different people. |
|
pixiesunbelle
Familiar
Find me on Discord! pixiesunbelle#7381
Posts: 243
|
Post by pixiesunbelle on Jan 9, 2010 14:57:52 GMT -5
Ok I guess she could be different but come on i dont think the writers would give her a name so close to Ava. Im in agreement with Fourever Charmed, they probably meant their active powers. Plus, the recast looks as though they attempted to make the woman look like Emmanuelle Vaugier (sp?). (And as far as recasts though, that was a much better recast if they meant for them to be the same person than they did recasting Victor.) If they were meant to be two different people, it seems really odd that there would just happen to be another Gypsy in the clan who happened to look so much like Ava (who doesn't look a thing like her Aunt Lydia, which makes me think she most likely gets her darker skin and dark hair from her father's family instead of her mother's Gypsy family) and then give her a name so close to Ava, if they meant for them to be two different people. I agree. I do think they are the same character because at the end of the The Eyes Have It; she was helping gypsies without healthcare.... it doesn't make sense for it to be someone else. If it was; then in The Eyes Have It, they would have shown other gypsies working Ava with her clinic. |
|
|
|
Post by minnie on Mar 2, 2010 17:46:52 GMT -5
And they didn't show a photo of Prue (or a lot of the minor characters) in "Forever Charmed" because it would have cost extra money to pay Shannen (and others, such as an actress to play adult Melinda) for use of their images. I get why they never brought back Shannon for any of the episodes from seasons 6 til the end because of the falling out. and the whole Melinda child I don't think she will be born cause of how much was changed in the time line. |
|
|
|
Post by joshingabout on Feb 23, 2011 18:31:10 GMT -5
While Centennial Charmed was a good episode, it made one fatal flaw:
Cole had his blood transmuted by an alchemist so the Belthazor vanquishing potion wouldn't work on him BEFORE Prue died. He changed time to when Prue died. Therefore the potion should NOT have worked on him at all! Le sigh.
One problem that I had with Charmed was that it never made a clear distinction between the Woogeyman and the Nexus. For a while I thought the two were the same. I got so frustrated with it that I wrote my own fic expanding the lore behind the Woogeyman, as seen in my signature. The shadow underneath the basement was a demon - but now it's a fountain of neutral power! Seriously?
|
|
|
|
Post by NubianWitch on Feb 23, 2011 19:29:32 GMT -5
Ick, Centennial Charmed. The only "good" thing about that episode was I was glad to see my favourite villainess--the Seer. I love her to bits.
Also, and for Piper to say that Ava shouldn't see their magic is a bit redundant. They couldn't be possibly talking about active powers OR spellcasting--because magical gypsies have both. Aunt Lydia had the power to shoot thermal energy out of her eyes! I'm pretty sure it's just another one of Kernus' effing glitches. GOD, that man is so stupid.
|
|
|
|
Post by joshingabout on Feb 23, 2011 19:51:28 GMT -5
The Evil Eye confused me. It warded off evil and empowered good magic, apparently allowing Phoebe to have her Astral Echo premonition. So, was it the necklace, or Lydia's power? If it was the power, how was Oren able to wield it if it warded against evil?
|
|
|
|
Post by NubianWitch on Feb 23, 2011 20:02:20 GMT -5
The Evil Eye confused me. It warded off evil and empowered good magic, apparently allowing Phoebe to have her Astral Echo premonition. So, was it the necklace, or Lydia's power? If it was the power, how was Oren able to wield it if it warded against evil? I'm gonna say that the necklace empowered the natural ability within the gypsy-witch, and the system is similar to how demons often stole TCO's powers. Except now, a demon/gypsy-hunter CHANNELED the gypsy magic. The actual Evil Eye in our world guards against evil in folk magic, and can't be touched by evil whatsoever. It's another cultural glitch on Kernus' part. He's such a friggin' cornball.  |
|
|
|
Post by erikamarie on Feb 24, 2011 11:25:59 GMT -5
The writer Robert Masello was the specialist of magic he created white and darklighter and introduced mythological creatures as Wendigo or Banshee.
|
|
Jad
Familiar
I was going to go with Liberty Jad, aren't you glad I didn't?
Posts: 256
|
Post by Jad on Mar 15, 2011 19:47:18 GMT -5
I agree with the frozen Phoebe syndrome. The character never learned how to have an adult relationship with a man.
Phoebe always believed that she could save a man with her love. This is the road to a continual broken heart and bitterness.
To reward the character with the cupid named Cooper was beyond me. It proves that the Elders have no wisdom at all.
Phoebe's problems with men were not magical, they were personal. They were all her own fault.
Anyway, the Phoebe character was better evil or at least on the fence. The writers set it up that way but never really developed it.
This is far from all I have to say on this subject. This is more a thesis statement than a whole thought.
In a lot of ways, Cole's character was better written. From the pure evil of the Fifth Haliwheel to the noble but berated Cole of the fairytale episode. They then proceed to destroy the character the next episode with the Siren's Song, but that was more production needs than anything else. They could not have Phoebe have a mature relationship with Cole or Cole would have had to die a tragic death. This again might have been better and more satisfying.
|
|
Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
|
Post by Esmeralda on Mar 19, 2011 18:19:08 GMT -5
I agree with the frozen Phoebe syndrome. The character never learned how to have an adult relationship with a man. Phoebe always believed that she could save a man with her love. This is the road to a continual broken heart and bitterness. To reward the character with the cupid named Cooper was beyond me. It proves that the Elders have no wisdom at all. Phoebe's problems with men were not magical, they were personal. They were all her own fault. I agree with you completely, Jad. I think Phoebe's biggest problem is she never learned how to love herself so how could she love someone else? That's usually the problem when someone's life revolves around themselves the way PhoeME/Freebie's died - because she didn't love herself she thought the only way she was capable of having love is if she saved the guy - then her reward would be love - rather than the guy simply loving her for who she was, as he would if she loved herself. She also kept confusing lust with love. On the show, I truly don't think she ever loved any guy - she was just in lust with them - her reward for saving them. This most definitely includes Cole. I get the feeling that maybe Alyssa Milano felt this way until she met her current husband. Her very short post-Charmed show "Romantically Challenged" never showed anything to do with romance or love, just sex. This I can *sort of* agree with, but not totally. I loved Phoebe when she was possessed in Season One. I hated her as Queen of the Underworld. I could've very easily lived without that story arc, even if I know I'm in the minority on that. YAY! I'm definitely looking forward to it, and for that you have been blessed. |
|
