Most common Charmed problems:

[vandergraafk]

And a good thought indeed!

[marissa08]

yeah i agree, they should have done that.

[ljones]

whitelightertony said:

Okay, that's certainly your right, as a viewer.

I'm still not understanding where you obtained all of this groundbreaking academic information about teleportation, though...

Why does it bother you, whitelightertony, that I insist that Paige's ability is teleportation? I realize that you're young, but I had no idea that my refusal to agree with you bothered you that much . . . at least to the point that you have to make sarcastic remarks about me.



Also . . . in Season 6's "Soul Survivor", Phoebe used magic twice to turn her old nemesis, Spencer Ricks, into animals, in order to avoid working with him on her column. And yet, the writer of this episode treated it as a joke, instead of what it really was . . . her abuse of magic. Another example of the Charmed Ones abusing their magic and not paying the consequences for it.

[whitelightertony]

Why does it bother you, whitelightertony, that I insist that Paige's ability is teleportation?

Because it's two different powers...and Paige moving objects from Point A to Point B is a combination of teleportation and telekinesis.

I realize that you're young, but I had no idea that my refusal to agree with you bothered you that much . . . at least to the point that you have to make sarcastic remarks about me.

Yes, and you're the shining example of someone acting her age...the way you yell at people and swear at them whenever they disagree with you.

Hmmm, come to think of it, maybe you are acting your age...

[Assassin Witch]

Okay guys. Please tone it down. It's fine that you're both debating your points, but please keep the personal points out of it.

[ljones]

Yes, and you're the shining example of someone acting her age...the way you yell at people and swear at them whenever they disagree with you.

Hmmm, come to think of it, maybe you are acting your age...

And exactly how old am I?

[vandergraafk]

Back to realitybites's challenge:

To answer your challenge, let me redefine the terms of the issue. If Paige merely moves an object from a to b via orbs, then she will be unable to impart momentum to any object being moved. Prue's telekinetic power allowed her to impart momentum (send a resting object flying) and redirect a moving object away from its intended path. Prue was also able to combine both talents. That is, she was able to both re-direct an object and impart additional momentum to the object. Leo never does any of these things because he, as a whitelighter, does not have this ability. Paige, however, has demonstrated this ability. Thus, Paige has true telekinetic ability. Her whitelighter side, however, does affect the mode via which the ability is demonstrated. Whereas Prue is able to "wish" the coffee creamer to her, a feat that is accomplished as we see the creamer slide along the bar, Paige dematerializes an object, say, the candle in Charmed Again Part 2, via orbing and causes it to move through space.

Teleportation is a concept in need of definition. What we saw in Star Trek may have been called teleportation, but maybe that's not what it was or is. Teleportation, strictly speaking, might involve the moving of an object across space by the dematerialization of the object and reconstruction of the object elsewhere. Does this mean that the original object is dematerialized or that a copy is made of the original object the copy which is then sent through space (much like a fax copy)? In Charmed, the latter type of teleportation is called astral projection. Both Prue and Paige learn to do this. But, so then does everyone else apparently: Ms. Donovan, Duncan, Piper, Phoebe, and even the Magic School head custodian! The former type is called orbing and Paige, not Prue, is able to demonstrate this ability.

[ljones]

Prue was also able to combine both talents. That is, she was able to both re-direct an object and impart additional momentum to the object. Leo never does any of these things because he, as a whitelighter, does not have this ability. Paige, however, has demonstrated this ability. Thus, Paige has true telekinetic ability. Her whitelighter side, however, does affect the mode via which the ability is demonstrated.

Actually, Leo did have telekinetic ability. I do recall seeing it in action during the first half of Season 1. And his ability to move objects resembled Prue's ability, not Paige's.

Teleportation is a concept in need of definition.

I would say the same about telekinetic orbing. In fact, the latter sounds like something that the show's writers dreamed up so that all of the Charmed Ones - in the S4-S8 form - would continue to each have one of Melinda Warren's abilities. And the ironic thing is that Piper and Phoebe dreamed up the whole "telekinetic orbing" explanation out of thin air. They had simply assumed that this was Paige's ability without bothering to read about it or have it confirmed by others.


I'm sorry. If you want to accept that Paige's ability is telekinetic orbing, it's your choice. I won't try to change your minds. But I refuse to accept the explanation that this is her ability. Why? Because it makes no sense to me. That is all I have to say.

[apollo223]

ok heres just a little thing taht i was wondering...k elders seem to be regarded as these ultimate beings of power when in the prophecy it says that the charmed ones will be the strongest force of good that has ever been seen so i was wondering if that means that the charmed ones are stronger than the ELDERS?! i mean theyre the gaurdians of the world arent they? and the charmed ones are stronger?

[vandergraafk]

We don't quite know what the Elders are exactly. Where did you get the notion that they were the "Guardians of the World"? And, where is it said that the Charmed Ones were the strongest force for good? It was claimed that the Charmed Ones were the most powerful witches of all time. However, this claim can be undermined and rendered less forceful a proposition if we understand the claim's source: Melinda Warren. Either you accept that she foresaw that three powerful sister witches would be born who would be the most powerful witches of all time or you believe that she heard this from her mother Charlotte after Charlotte's coven summoned the most powerful witches of all time: the Charmed Ones.

As for Leo's "telekinetic powers" in Season 1, I can't recall any instance that you are hinting at. In Secrets and Guys, when we learn that Leo is a whitelighter, we see him fill a glass of water from a pitcher. True, we don't see the orbs. But, we don't see a flow of water out of the pitcher into the glass which is what we would see if Prue had had this ability. Maybe she does and maybe she doesn't. In Something Wiccan, she brings the coffee to a boil and manages to fill it with cream, but how she does this is never explained. Nor does she ever do anything like this again.

[ljones]

Like I had said before, if you want to believe in the old telekinetic orbing theory, go ahead. I just don't buy it, because it looks like teleportation to me.

[Assassin Witch]

Leo uses TK in "Wicca Envy" while searching for the tiara in the attic. And I think there is another time, too.

He does flip the pages in "Morality Bites".

[vandergraafk]

Given the fact that many, if not all, of these instances are confined to season 1 and early season 2, I am leery of incorporating them into my understanding of what whitelighters can and cannot do. Yes, I acknowledge all that you refer to. How could I ignore it? Indeed, I suggested that the powers confusion, if you will, was already present in the series opener when Prue does her cream trick.

As the series unfolded and aspects of each character became clearer and more developed, I think one can begin to sift through what was essential and what was not. If we restrict Leo's abilities to orbing, which is teleportation involving the movement of an object across space but not through that same space whereas telekinesis involves the imparting of momentum to an object either at rest or in motion and sending that object through space at a different velocity or in an altered direction, then it is true: we cannot explain the apparent movement of the pages of the Book of Shadows. Nor can we explain his search for the tiara. We can, however, explain all of his other actions as a whitelighter in later episodes.

Just to make this point even clearer: there are lots of things we can't explain in Charmedverse. How does the book open to pages it wants to? Is it Grams? Is it the book itself. Is it the Elders? Perhaps Leo was channeling powers reserved to the Elders in order to flip the pages of the book.

Frankly, I don't know why terms like telekinetic orbing are bandied about. I'm certainly not using them. We have two terms that were used in Charmed: telekinesis and teleportation (A Witch in Time). I don't recall telekinetic orbing ever being used as a term. I could be wrong. After all, I do have a massive head cold. But, I don't think so.

P.S. If it is not obvious, there is a difference between movement across space and movement through space. Let's say I wish to go from Point A to Point Z. There may be several paths to get from A to Z, but each of these paths must traverse a given physical distance measured in three-dimensional space. That is movement through space.

Movement across space does not imply the same as movement through space. It asserts that one can go from Point A to Point Z without necessarily traversing any measurable three-dimensional space in between. For Charmed, we think this movement involves motion through different planes of existence.

[Assassin Witch]

I don't see how it's a problem if Leo has orbing AND telekinesis, while Paige has a combined version. I guess it's a matter of person opinion on how you want to look at things.

As for the book. We know (assume) it's Grams because TCO say it. Which it could also be Prue and even Melinda.

[vandergraafk]

Actually, we don't know any such thing. All we have is what the Charmed Ones tell us it might be. And, they have been wrong many, many times. Maybe it is Grams. Maybe at times it isn't. But I would hardly count on the Charmed Ones as experts in this area.

[Assassin Witch]

That's why it's just an assumption.

[ljones]

This "Harmed" cartoon, drawn by Payndz, had this to say about personal gain and the Wiccan Rede:

[whitelightertony]

Actually, Leo did have telekinetic ability. I do recall seeing it in action during the first half of Season 1. And his ability to move objects resembled Prue's ability, not Paige's.

Very true...and Leo had also been a whitelighter for 50+ years. It's possible that, over half a century, he mastered the telekinetic ability given to him as a whitelighter to the point where he could exert it without the object being bathed in orbs.

With several years of additional practice and discipline, Paige may become able to exert "orbless" telekinesis (resembling Prue's) herself.

[whitelightertony]

Like I had said before, if you want to believe in the old telekinetic orbing theory, go ahead. I just don't buy it, because it looks like teleportation to me.

ljones, if you don't believe Paige possesses telekinesis, then how do you explain her being able to move objects in a straight linear path (albeit still coated with orbs) by the beginning of Season 6? We see her do this many times during the final three seasons.

Also, I think we're essentially referring to the same power by different names (based on preference).

When Paige calls for an object, and summons it into her possession (via orbs) ---

- You consider it to be "teleportation"
- I consider it to be "transkinesis"
- other people consider it to be "TK orbing"

Am I basically understanding our differences correctly, in light of the dissimilar phrasing we (and others on this board) may use?

[ljones]

whitelightertony said:

Like I had said before, if you want to believe in the old telekinetic orbing theory, go ahead. I just don't buy it, because it looks like teleportation to me.

ljones, if you don't believe Paige possesses telekinesis, then how do you explain her being able to move objects in a straight linear path (albeit still coated with orbs) by the beginning of Season 6? We see her do this many times during the final three seasons.

Also, I think we're essentially referring to the same power by different names (based on preference).

When Paige calls for an object, and summons it into her possession (via orbs) ---

- You consider it to be "teleportation"
- I consider it to be "transkinesis"
- other people consider it to be "TK orbing"

Am I basically understanding our differences correctly, in light of the dissimilar phrasing we (and others on this board) may use?

Whitelightertony . . . please give it up. You will never convince me. Okay? You have your opinion. I have mine.