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Post by Patrick on Aug 31, 2009 12:58:23 GMT -5
I;m currently doing a paper for school and my research question is [/i][/ul] I know it works backwards, like in Forever Charmed, when they used Piper, her mother, and grandmother to recreate the power of three but will it work for the future? Just an interesting thing to REALLY think about. Instead of assuming. |
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Post by ghostrider on Aug 31, 2009 14:59:54 GMT -5
There are many Charmed fans that would like to see the Warren line continue and many that would not. I am neutral as I can see both sides.
Perhaps I am not following your question properly but, if you are looking for a way to do this and remain in keeping with the show I would think you would gravitate to Phoebe's girls. All of the living Charmed Ones had three children but Phoebe is the only one that had all girls.
The names vary so I can't be sure what they were. In some instances they all start with the letter (P) but I think it is not the case in the books.
If you are looking for a power of three for the future, and want it similar to the show, than Phoebe would be the one to look into.
Hope that helps.....GR.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 31, 2009 18:14:00 GMT -5
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Post by CharmedFaith on Aug 31, 2009 21:17:36 GMT -5
I dont think its as simple as "three warren decesdants who are sisters can harness the Po3". It was specifically the Halliwell sisters. They were the CharmedOnes. After them, there is no more CharmedOnes unless there is another prophecy out there fortelling some great power from them. Or else technically it could be any three sisters who have witch lineage.
The power of being Charmed was born and will die with Prue,Piper,Phoebe,Paige. IMO.
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Post by Fourever Charmed on Aug 31, 2009 22:48:08 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure the Power of Three was a one time prophecy. Just because three (or four) sisters are born from the Warren line does not make them Charmed Ones. If that were the case, then why weren't the cousins' mothers (P. Russell's, P. Bowen's, and P. Baxter's mothers) Charmed Ones before Prue, Piper, and Phoebe?
So no, just because Phoebe had three daughters does not automatically make them Charmed Ones.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 31, 2009 23:09:02 GMT -5
For a simple reason--you don't know that all three of the cousins' mothers were the Warrens. For any one of them, it could've been her father who was the Warren. Then they wouldn't be sisters, only siblings, like Pipers' children and Paige's children. And please don't quote me any of the "family trees". We all know how inaccurate all of them are.
I think that's why Connie made them cousins, so they couldn't be sisters who could harness the Power of Three. Of the next generation, it's truly only Phoebe's three daughters who could've. I'm not saying they would or did, but they are the only ones who could.
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Post by StoryGirl83 on Aug 31, 2009 23:25:50 GMT -5
Well, if you don't want the family tree quoted, I guess I won't (even though it shows two sisters and a brother). Even if it didn't I would have guessed that either their Warren parents were not three sisters (or three brother, or even two brothers and a sister due to the last name thing). I would have guessed that either one of them was a brother or else it didn't matter because the prophesy refered specifically to Patty's daughters and therefore it didn't matter if there were three sisters, because they were not THE three sisters . . . if that makes sense.
My take on it was always that the Charmed Ones were Patty's daughters and that simply was that. Perhaps naive, but that's what I saw. I don't believe there was any Charmed Ones before then (though I like one idea that I've heard on that) and I don't believe that there will be any Charmed Ones after them (though again I have seen it done where I liked it.)
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Post by Fourever Charmed on Sept 1, 2009 0:35:35 GMT -5
For a simple reason--you don't know that all three of the cousins' mothers were the Warrens. For any one of them, it could've been her father who was the Warren. Then they wouldn't be sisters, only siblings, like Pipers' children and Paige's children. And please don't quote me any of the "family trees". We all know how inaccurate all of them are. I think that's why Connie made them cousins, so they couldn't be sisters who could harness the Power of Three. Of the next generation, it's truly only Phoebe's three daughters who could've. I'm not saying they would or did, but they are the only ones who could. If you don't want to quote the family tree, that's fine, but then all you have is this to fall back on: And since the cousins fall within that three hundred years, that would mean that their mothers were Warren witches, not their fathers. |
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Post by ghostrider on Sept 1, 2009 0:55:33 GMT -5
Since you are dealing with a fantasy here, unless a solid statement was made during the show, that cannot be refuted or give way to any speculation....I would GUESS, as long as there is a reasonable door to shove open, you could create what you wanted.
Unless I completely have misunderstood you, what you are doing is composing something along the lines of fan fiction. So as long as you have something to work with....why not.
The only way the door would be closed and locked would be if none of them had children. Even if each sister only had one child regardless of gender, you could still build your own story line.
Posted by Fourever Charmed
Posted by CharmedFaith
I am not the Charmed go to person, so I imagine that if the two members quoted above state that a one time prophecy is mentioned....than the door is indeed closed.
But as the ignorant one here I have a few questions.
1. Why were the Charmed Ones in existence in the first place? Was it to combat evil? If this is the case, than are we to believe that all evil, forever and ever is totally gone? Planet earth is not only a problem free place to visit, but a paradise to live in? No, don't think so. Somewhere down the line evil just might rear its ugly head at some point. Maybe evil is still alive and well and just napping in say, Maine or Georgia.
2. Now, unless there is something written on cardboard that tells us the world is now forever blessed with good tidings, comfort and joy....when the sisters die off, then what, evil runs amuck? Well, at least in San Francisco..
3. The back of the Witch-Board says, "The Power of Three, Will Set Us FREE." What does that really mean? It doesn't mention anything about being Charmed...just three being in alliance to form a great, hopefully positive power. Well if we are just speaking of the power of three....isn't it odd, that all 3 sisters had 3 children each. What was being suggested here? Why didn't one just have a child or two? Did they need to have 3? How come? Did some brilliant mind decide to leave the door open just a jar, so that in 5,10, 15 years from now someone could just step over the threshold? Could happen....
All I am saying here Patrick is that if you are willing to do the work, and you don't find a bolder in the way....what is to stop you from traveling down that road....GR
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Post by Patrick on Sept 1, 2009 1:38:27 GMT -5
Wow, Thank you guys for all of your wonderful responses. The thing that helped me most were GR's questions? It made me think of something I've never previously thought of before. I'm sure half of you are familiar with Buffy the vampire slayer. Doing the whole run of the series, there existed only ONE slayer at a time. When one died, the other becomes the Slayer. This sort of resembles our one time prophecy of Charmed Ones. Now, towards the end, a powerful witch was able to make all potential slayers into full bred slayers. Them being born all over the world. Of course this would break the Slayer prophecy. So, what GR made me think, was that after the Charmed Ones have done their work, they will have created this sort of universal law. Some magical union that they alone have birthed...the Power of Three. Each sister will pass on to her kids, the power of which they come from. The children will then take that power each and combine it, to harness the Power Of Three, (Though not specifically Charmed One's Power). You see where I'm going? Through the Charmed Ones, they are able to create a magical union of the Number of Three, through their line that will continue and keep evil in check throughout time. lol, what a rhyme. Of course that's my new take on it. So I say that after the Charmed Ones, the Power of Three was reborn into a universal energy that their children can tap into. "The Power of Three will set us free" - My interpretation: The Charmed Ones will awaken witch's magic everywhere to continue protecting the world and banishing evil. Leaving Melinda Warren's prophecy to be carried out as well as make room for witches everywhere to fulfill their own...through the Charmed Ones hard work. Yay...I think I have a thesis  Thanks guys! |
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Post by Fourever Charmed on Sept 1, 2009 1:59:08 GMT -5
1. Why were the Charmed Ones in existence in the first place? Was it to combat evil? If this is the case, than are we to believe that all evil, forever and ever is totally gone? Planet earth is not only a problem free place to visit, but a paradise to live in? No, don't think so. Somewhere down the line evil just might rear its ugly head at some point. Maybe evil is still alive and well and just napping in say, Maine or Georgia. 2. Now, unless there is something written on cardboard that tells us the world is now forever blessed with good tidings, comfort and joy....when the sisters die off, then what, evil runs amuck? Well, at least in San Francisco.. 3. The back of the Witch-Board says, "The Power of Three, Will Set Us FREE." What does that really mean? It doesn't mention anything about being Charmed...just three being in alliance to form a great, hopefully positive power. Well if we are just speaking of the power of three....isn't it odd, that all 3 sisters had 3 children each. What was being suggested here? Why didn't one just have a child or two? Did they need to have 3? How come? Did some brilliant mind decide to leave the door open just a jar, so that in 5,10, 15 years from now someone could just step over the threshold? Could happen.... 1. Their destiny as the Charmed Ones was to defeat The Source of All Evil, which they defeated much earlier than expected, according to the Angel of Destiny from "Witch Way Now?" Which was of course why he came to them and offered them the chance to give up their powers and demonic burdens (which also would've changed the destinies of many other people who had destinies tied to the sisters), but since they chose not to, they continued on the path that ended up with them finding Bimbo and Crazy and having to play a part in the "Ultimate Battle." 2. There was evil before the sisters and there will be evil after the sisters. You can't have one without the other. Even when the Avatars created Utopia, they couldn't eliminate all evil and/or "negativity." Evil will come back, but that doesn't mean the Charmed Ones didn't complete their destiny. They were destined to vanquish The Source of All Evil. They reached the finish line. Does that mean all was well and good for them afterwards? No, but they still did what they were meant to, so their "shared destiny" (as the Angel of the same name spoke of) was done and over. Could the Charmed Ones' children one day have their own destinies? Sure. But it won't be the same destiny, because the Charmed Ones already completed that. 3. True, it does say "The Power of Three," but said power can only be accessed via the Charmed Ones. It was a spell specifically written for Melinda Warren's prophecy: "Before Melinda was burned at the stake, she vowed that each generation of Warren witches would become stronger and stronger, culminating in the arrival of three sisters. Now, these sisters would be the most powerful witches the world has ever known." This effectively eliminates Wyatt, Chris, and Henry from ever being a Charmed One. They're not girls and thus cannot be sisters. The only sisters were Phoebe's daughters. (Even if Piper, Phoebe, and Paige had all had only one daughter they would be cousins and still not sisters, which the prophecy specifically states.) Yet even Phoebe's girls don't really jibe with the prophecy because "culmination" describes the climax, the highest point, the end. And since those sisters were Prue, Piper, and Phoebe (later to become Piper, Phoebe, and Paige), the greatest combined power to be born of the Warren line ended with them. And as I said above, that combined power was destined to defeat The Source of All Evil, which they fulfilled. |
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Post by Astral Echo on Sept 1, 2009 5:52:05 GMT -5
But as you said culmination means 'end' or climax so surely when Prue died, that meant that the Charmed circle was broken, forever. However they still had a destiny to fulfill as Grams herself said, so perhaps Paige acted as lupole. The Charmed Ones destiny to vanquish the Source wasn't over so destiny threw them bone and gave them Paige.
Which you could then assume, had the sisters not vanquished the Source, then the Power of Three could then be re-harnessed by another set of Warren sisters. And actually, infact, the sisters didn't vanquish the Source...how did I come to that conclusion?
The Source came back. The Source was "vanquished" in S4...but he wasn't, his aura or power source was simply banished not vanquished. If it was vanquished or destroyed, then Cole or the Seer never would of been able to harness the power as they did. Suggesting that instead, the power of the Source was simply banished. Meaning, in short, that the destiny of the Charmed Ones still isn't over.
How do you vanquish the Source? I don't know. But it can be done, Zankou was vanquished, the Source like Barbus was simply banished. (How Barbus didn't return, as far as we know, after Paige and Phoebe vanquished him that the potion, so perhaps that did stick and he wasn't banished the last time.) As they were able to return, that would lead us to believe that the "vanquish" didn't work, it wasn't right.
So...as the Charmed Ones destiny isn't over, another set of Warren sisters can now re-harness the Po3 as Paige, Phoebe and Piper did after Prue's demise. There destiny, like their ancestors, is to finally vanquish the Source of All Evil!
That there, is your lupole to any other counter argument. As Paige was able to harness the Po3 with Phoebe and Piper, so can another set of Warren sisters until the Source of All Evil is finally vanquished.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 1, 2009 7:58:02 GMT -5
No, your loophole doesn't work. Paige was still their sister. Their half-sister, yes, but still their sister through their mother.
Yes, I agree with Ghost-Rider where the door is now opened to witch magic. But Patrick wanted to know about The Power of Three. That would only be Phoebe's daughters. Obviously one of them is destined to have three daughters, who is destined to have three daughters, etc. etc.
Piper's children and Paige's children would be very powerful since they are witches with whitelighter powers, but they would not be able to harness The Power of Three. Although each individually may be more powerful than each individual one of Phoebe's daughter, if you accept Forever Charmed as real (which I don't), then together, Phoebe's daughters would be much more powerful than any combination of Piper's or Paige's.
Patrick, I'm glad we were able to help you with what you needed.
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Post by CharmedFaith on Sept 1, 2009 8:05:38 GMT -5
But TCO (Halliwells) completed their destiny, they vanquished The Source (even if his aura is still out there, it hasnt found a host) so their Charmed duties were over. The Underworld has been in turmoil ever since S5 started and never found a true balance. When a new Source is appointed, it may call upon "Charmed Ones" to beat him or her. Now that doesnt mean that it will be decesendants of the Halliwell line, or even that they will be sisters.
The Prophecy could get a total makeover for all we know.
And lets not forget that Charmed runs on a whole "balance of good and evil" so either way there needs to be a balance. Until some extremely big bad comes along, there wont be a power that can equal that.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 1, 2009 9:03:34 GMT -5
Their destiny wasn't just to vanish the Source. Had they accepted the Angel of Destiny's offer at the end of Season Four and had the show ended after Season Four, as it should've, then yes, you could say that it was and then if any of them had three daughters, they would not be able to harness The Power of Three.
But because they accepted their destiny, it continued to be to protect the innocent, which is what their descendants would continue to do, and which Phoebe's daughters would continue to do by harnessing The Power of Three, as would her granddaughters if one of her daughters had three daughters, etc. etc.
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Post by Fourever Charmed on Sept 1, 2009 10:04:05 GMT -5
But as you said culmination means 'end' or climax so surely when Prue died, that meant that the Charmed circle was broken, forever. However they still had a destiny to fulfill as Grams herself said, so perhaps Paige acted as lupole. The Charmed Ones destiny to vanquish the Source wasn't over so destiny threw them bone and gave them Paige. Which you could then assume, had the sisters not vanquished the Source, then the Power of Three could then be re-harnessed by another set of Warren sisters. And actually, infact, the sisters didn't vanquish the Source...how did I come to that conclusion? The Source came back. The Source was "vanquished" in S4...but he wasn't, his aura or power source was simply banished not vanquished. If it was vanquished or destroyed, then Cole or the Seer never would of been able to harness the power as they did. Suggesting that instead, the power of the Source was simply banished. Meaning, in short, that the destiny of the Charmed Ones still isn't over. How do you vanquish the Source? I don't know. But it can be done, Zankou was vanquished, the Source like Barbus was simply banished. (How Barbus didn't return, as far as we know, after Paige and Phoebe vanquished him that the potion, so perhaps that did stick and he wasn't banished the last time.) As they were able to return, that would lead us to believe that the "vanquish" didn't work, it wasn't right. So...as the Charmed Ones destiny isn't over, another set of Warren sisters can now re-harness the Po3 as Paige, Phoebe and Piper did after Prue's demise. There destiny, like their ancestors, is to finally vanquish the Source of All Evil! That there, is your lupole to any other counter argument. As Paige was able to harness the Po3 with Phoebe and Piper, so can another set of Warren sisters until the Source of All Evil is finally vanquished. No, Paige wasn't a loophole, she was already destined to reconstitute the Power of Three. Paige was part of the Charmed destiny all along. And yes, The Source was vanquished. He was vanquished once as himself in his physical body and then he used the void where Belthazor used to be to possess Cole like a ghost (the connection to his demonic heritage/half probably made him most suseptible and then he was vanquished again and that time both he and Cole were sent to the Wasteland (and since Cole didn't retain any of The Source's powers in the Wasteland, it suggests that The Source's "ghost" and his powers were absorbed by the Wasteland's giant worm). But because they accepted their destiny, it continued to be to protect the innocent, which is what their descendants would continue to do, and which Phoebe's daughters would continue to do by harnessing The Power of Three, as would her granddaughters if one of her daughters had three daughters, etc. etc. Their descendants will continue to be protectors of the innocent, but that does not mean that they'll ever be able to access the Power of Three. |
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Post by CharmedFaith on Sept 1, 2009 10:31:05 GMT -5
But because they accepted their destiny, it continued to be to protect the innocent, which is what their descendants would continue to do, and which Phoebe's daughters would continue to do by harnessing The Power of Three, as would her granddaughters if one of her daughters had three daughters, etc. etc. Their descendants will continue to be protectors of the innocent, but that does not mean that they'll ever be able to access the Power of Three. Exactly. You dont need the Power of Three to protect innocents. Witches have been doing it for decades before the CharmedOnes were born and they can still do it after. It will just be a little bit harder for them to do it. While there were a lot of demons that needed the Power of Three to be vanquished, get enough strong witches together and you can basically replicate that. After The Source was vanquished in S4, the Power of Three was barely even needed. Any group of witches couldve done the job during S5-8. |
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 1, 2009 11:14:18 GMT -5
The fact that the Power of Three wasn't used in the latter seasons had nothing to do with getting rid of the Source but more to do with Kern not wanting to remind people that it was indeed the most powerful force in the Charmed universe, even more powerful than his superbrat, and that it was controlled by three females, not males, the way he wanted to forget everything that happened during the first two seasons, the seasons that set the mythology, the canon.
If you want to follow his alternate universe and his revised history, then you're right. But obviously getting rid of the Source didn't get rid of all evil and obviously once the so-called truce was over, the Power of Three would still be needed, because another Source would rise..
If you didn't follow Kern's revised history, that should be Phoebe's daughters and their daughters and their daughters...
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Post by Fourever Charmed on Sept 1, 2009 13:12:53 GMT -5
If you didn't follow Kern's revised history, that should be Phoebe's daughters and their daughters and their daughters... Now you're just creating your own rules. There was nothing in even the first two seasons that suggested the Power of Three would be passed down through each generation. I happen to follow the pilot, and if anything, the prophecy in the first episode suggests the opposite: that the Power of Three began and ended - "culminated" to quote Phoebe - with her and her sisters' generation of magic. |
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Post by Astral Echo on Sept 1, 2009 17:59:14 GMT -5
See you shoot your own argument in the foot, Camille. You say it culminated in three sisters, known as the Charmed Ones. That is the end point, as you say. But Paige comes along and harnesses that power, even after Prue dies and the Po3 is broken. If that culmination as you say, made Prue, Piper and Phoebe the Po3 it ended with them. Paige should never of been able to reconstitute the Po3.
But she did, so that leaves the door open to future generations of Warren sisters to also reconstitute, to re-harness the Po3.
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Thanks guys!
