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Post by StoryGirl83 on Jan 4, 2011 0:43:38 GMT -5
Do to a story I am working on I have become quite curious about the number of Elders and Whitelighters there might be.
I have no idea what kind of percentage of magical beings to nonmagical there might be in the world of Charmed, and it's probably a ton higher than the number I am using for this calculation. However, since many of the magical beings we saw didn't actually live on earth (especially most of the demons and pretty much all the elders) that might lower it some.
I decided to base this number off of 6 billion people on earth. I don't know how old that figure is, but it's one I heard. Then, I decided to go with 1% of the population being magical beings that lived on earth. That number came to 60 million. If 25 million of those were witches (which like I said is probably a low estimate) how many whitelighters do you think it would take if all of those witches had whitelighters (and keep in mind the whitelighters would most likely have future whitelighter charges as well)?
I decided to guess that an average whitelighter would have no more than two dozen charges (though probably some would have more, this is average after all). That is based off the idea that a whitelighter might have enough time to spend maybe an hour a day with each charge. Some would be considerably less. Some would probably be more. And of course there are staff meetings (per Natalie in "Blinded by the Whitelighter").
Using this number we are talking about 1 million whitelighters. If that were to be accurate, how many elders do you think we be around to keep track of them and give them there wisdom and . . . did anyone actually figure out what elders actually do? 'Cause frankly I'm still trying to figure that out. I know they mentor/train in the beginning . . . and then they like to yell and judge. Not all of them of course, but I really never did understand what they did with the majority of their time . . . which based off of "The Honeymoon's Over" is about one of their hours for every one day of ours.
Anyway, I tried for a ratio of one elder per every 100 whitelighters, which landed me with 10,000 elders. That kind of seemed like a lot.
Anyone else have any ideas of how many elders and whitelighters (not to mention what percentage of the earth might be magical) there might be in the world of Charmed? I'd love to hear your ideas.
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Post by erikamarie on Jan 4, 2011 7:00:56 GMT -5
Good question: if being witch is a genetic factor I believe that the witches'ld be more than 1% of population, at least 5%
Whithelighter: are we sure that every witch had a whitelighter? Billie didn't and so other witches. I don't know which standard they adopted, maybe the witches devoid of an active power, the majority of witches I think, didn't neeed a whitelighter and may be they don't have a perfect "witches list"
I believe that the whitelighters'ld not be more that 500
The Elders are whitelighters, the first whitelighters, who took over we don't know when: I think they'ld be a small group of elitè, 30/50 Elders no more
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Post by Astral Echo on Jan 4, 2011 19:46:12 GMT -5
I would say there were about 30 Elders. Once one dies, someone then replaces them. These 30 Elders aren't just the leaders of the whitelighter community but are also the main representation of good magic. So technically they are not only in charge of whitelighters but all good magical beings. But like any "government", you can choose to support the party in power or a rival party such as the Avatars.
Whitelighters. Well I don't believe every witch has a whitelighter, as already pointed out. I also reckon that there are no more than 500 whitelighters.
Witches. Well lets suggest there are atleast 10 witches for every major city, every state has about 3, 4 or even 5 major cities (to make it simple lets say 5) so that means there are 255 major cities in the United States so that means there 2550 witches in the United States.
If we say for example that there are 300,000 major cities in the world, that would mean there are over 3 million witches in the world. If we take into account the rest of the world, we could probably double that number. So I' like to suggest that there are between 5 and 10 million witches in the world.
And I reckon no whitelighter has anymore than ten charges. So that means that only 5000 witches have a whitelighter.
HOWEVER. You could also suggest that the Charmed mythology works a little like that of the Buffy mythology so magical beings only culminate in certains areas of the world - the world has magical hot spots for example. We could suggest that San Francisco, Salem and perhaps New York are the magical hotspots in the United States.
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Post by dylan345 on Jan 5, 2011 13:53:18 GMT -5
I always thought that the number of witches in the world was extremely low. I would assume a couple thousand witches worldwide, just because of how rare the CO's powers seemed. I also agree with the idea that there are "hotspots" where magical beings tend to be found in.
I would guess that there are probably a few hundred whitelighters out there, but I'm one to want the magic kept to a minumum so it's more special, so it could be a lot more than that.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jan 5, 2011 14:55:24 GMT -5
I agree with you, Dylan. I think there are a lot of non-magical witches, but I like to think that those who have powers are very limited, heritage only with very few families like the Warrens.
I also think the ones with powers are the only ones with whitelighters, so I think their number is also very low, meaning the number of Elders are. I would say no more than 10 Elders, 100 whitelighters and 500 witches worldwide, in those hotspots, as already mentioned.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Jan 9, 2011 3:46:32 GMT -5
Magical being appear all over the world on BUFFY, despite the so-called "hot spots" or "hellmouths".
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Post by StoryGirl83 on Jan 9, 2011 19:01:41 GMT -5
Obviously most of you (if not all, since LJones thoughts are a little unclear) think there are a lot fewer whitelighters and elders than I do in the world of Charmed. I'm not saying, that I think there are 10,000 elders, 'cause I don't. That's why I came here asking for your thoughts. I think I can safely say that there are more than 10 elders.
In Oh My Goddess! when Leo is Up There were the dead elders are, you can see six dead elders (possibly seven). None of those dead elders is Kevin (they're all to old and tall). That makes eight. Roland is still alive. That makes nine. Gideon's not mentioned, but he had to be an elder before that point. That's ten. I did not get the impression that Zola, Sandra, and Odin were new, but I can't prove it. In a later scene that shows those elders saved there are twelve that I can count (including Roland). That's nineteen minimum (twenty-one if you assume that Gideon and are not among these, twenty-four if you also count Zola, Sandra, and Odin and assume they are elsewhere). Also, the impression given is that most of the elders are dead. That means the amount alive has to be at the very least greater to the number alive. In addition the girls are told that Leo is tracking down more elders, which means more are alive. The number of elders could still fall within the thirty-fifty number and honestly if I could reconcile that number, I would be more comfortable with it.
One possibility that I considered is that witches who do not openly "court" danger such as Serena Frederick in the pilot, might have only familiars and for a longer period of time. We know that Max Franklin had a whitelighter (Leo), but it's possible that once he knew enough about his powers that might have stopped unless he decided to use his powers for more dangerous things, such as protecting innocents.
I think most likely the number of witches was actually greater than the number I mentioned, and by witches I mean magical witches, unless they loss the ability to use magic through generations of non use I cannot see the number not increasing. Let's say, for example, that a witch had two offspring and each subsequent generation had at least four grandchildren for every witch who had children (this allows for the occational third, fourth, even fifth child in a family who might not have children and will not be counted for this). After only ten generation this one witch would have over a thousand offspring in just the current generation, over five hundred in the previous, and over two hundred in the one before that, most of whom would likely be alive. And that's just one family after three or four hundred years, maybe less. Now, if a lack of use made them lose their magic, then maybe many of these would be nonmagical.
Hotspots is an interesting idea, but I don't know. I never got the impression that there really were hotspots.
I'm still thinking this out and I would appreciate any more ideas you can give. I really want to refine this idea.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Jan 10, 2011 2:02:32 GMT -5
Why did you make that comment about me? What was the purpose? All I did was respond to a comment already posted on this particular thread.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jan 10, 2011 19:53:48 GMT -5
Obviously most of you (if not all, since LJones thoughts are a little unclear) think there are a lot fewer whitelighters and elders than I do in the world of Charmed. I'm not saying, that I think there are 10,000 elders, 'cause I don't. That's why I came here asking for your thoughts. I think I can safely say that there are more than 10 elders. In Oh My Goddess! when Leo is Up There were the dead elders are, you can see six dead elders (possibly seven). None of those dead elders is Kevin (they're all to old and tall). That makes eight. Roland is still alive. That makes nine. Gideon's not mentioned, but he had to be an elder before that point. That's ten. I did not get the impression that Zola, Sandra, and Odin were new, but I can't prove it. In a later scene that shows those elders saved there are twelve that I can count (including Roland). That's nineteen minimum (twenty-one if you assume that Gideon and are not among these, twenty-four if you also count Zola, Sandra, and Odin and assume they are elsewhere). Also, the impression given is that most of the elders are dead. That means the amount alive has to be at the very least greater to the number alive. In addition the girls are told that Leo is tracking down more elders, which means more are alive. The number of elders could still fall within the thirty-fifty number and honestly if I could reconcile that number, I would be more comfortable with it. One possibility that I considered is that witches who do not openly "court" danger such as Serena Frederick in the pilot, might have only familiars and for a longer period of time. We know that Max Franklin had a whitelighter (Leo), but it's possible that once he knew enough about his powers that might have stopped unless he decided to use his powers for more dangerous things, such as protecting innocents. I think most likely the number of witches was actually greater than the number I mentioned, and by witches I mean magical witches, unless they loss the ability to use magic through generations of non use I cannot see the number not increasing. Let's say, for example, that a witch had two offspring and each subsequent generation had at least four grandchildren for every witch who had children (this allows for the occational third, fourth, even fifth child in a family who might not have children and will not be counted for this). After only ten generation this one witch would have over a thousand offspring in just the current generation, over five hundred in the previous, and over two hundred in the one before that, most of whom would likely be alive. And that's just one family after three or four hundred years, maybe less. Now, if a lack of use made them lose their magic, then maybe many of these would be nonmagical. Hotspots is an interesting idea, but I don't know. I never got the impression that there really were hotspots. I'm still thinking this out and I would appreciate any more ideas you can give. I really want to refine this idea. It sounds like you've already got it figured out. Just go with what works for you. I do agree with the hotspots tho - after all, the sisters were living in a manor that was built on top of a wiccan nexus. My guess is the other families also built their home on top of one in order to tap in that power. |
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Post by StoryGirl83 on Jan 10, 2011 21:06:18 GMT -5
Why did you make that comment about me? What was the purpose? All I did was respond to a comment already posted on this particular thread. Actually, that's why I brought you up specifically. You were the only one who responded that didn't actually give me a point of view, therefore I don't know if you agree with the rest of them or not. I was hoping for two people specifically to give their viewpoints on it and you were one of them, so I was kind of disappointed. If you don't have an opinion, that's okay, but the reason I specifially mentioned you was that everyone else definitely was in accord on that particular matter. I didn't have any clue if you were or not. Obviously most of you (if not all, since LJones thoughts are a little unclear) think there are a lot fewer whitelighters and elders than I do in the world of Charmed. I'm not saying, that I think there are 10,000 elders, 'cause I don't. That's why I came here asking for your thoughts. I think I can safely say that there are more than 10 elders. In Oh My Goddess! when Leo is Up There were the dead elders are, you can see six dead elders (possibly seven). None of those dead elders is Kevin (they're all to old and tall). That makes eight. Roland is still alive. That makes nine. Gideon's not mentioned, but he had to be an elder before that point. That's ten. I did not get the impression that Zola, Sandra, and Odin were new, but I can't prove it. In a later scene that shows those elders saved there are twelve that I can count (including Roland). That's nineteen minimum (twenty-one if you assume that Gideon and are not among these, twenty-four if you also count Zola, Sandra, and Odin and assume they are elsewhere). Also, the impression given is that most of the elders are dead. That means the amount alive has to be at the very least greater to the number alive. In addition the girls are told that Leo is tracking down more elders, which means more are alive. The number of elders could still fall within the thirty-fifty number and honestly if I could reconcile that number, I would be more comfortable with it. One possibility that I considered is that witches who do not openly "court" danger such as Serena Frederick in the pilot, might have only familiars and for a longer period of time. We know that Max Franklin had a whitelighter (Leo), but it's possible that once he knew enough about his powers that might have stopped unless he decided to use his powers for more dangerous things, such as protecting innocents. I think most likely the number of witches was actually greater than the number I mentioned, and by witches I mean magical witches, unless they loss the ability to use magic through generations of non use I cannot see the number not increasing. Let's say, for example, that a witch had two offspring and each subsequent generation had at least four grandchildren for every witch who had children (this allows for the occational third, fourth, even fifth child in a family who might not have children and will not be counted for this). After only ten generation this one witch would have over a thousand offspring in just the current generation, over five hundred in the previous, and over two hundred in the one before that, most of whom would likely be alive. And that's just one family after three or four hundred years, maybe less. Now, if a lack of use made them lose their magic, then maybe many of these would be nonmagical. Hotspots is an interesting idea, but I don't know. I never got the impression that there really were hotspots. I'm still thinking this out and I would appreciate any more ideas you can give. I really want to refine this idea. It sounds like you've already got it figured out. Just go with what works for you. I do agree with the hotspots tho - after all, the sisters were living in a manor that was built on top of a wiccan nexus. My guess is the other families also built their home on top of one in order to tap in that power. You guys gave me a lot to think about and that's helped a lot. Your point about the nexus does make sense. I'll have to think more about that. We know there are other nexus over the world, though not where all of them are or how many, but it does make sense that each of these would have either a good group or a evil group centered over them to take advantage of their power and that the other side would likely be drawn there as well. |
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Post by erikamarie on Feb 22, 2011 6:55:30 GMT -5
Billie and Christy's mother wasn't a witch they got their magic from their grandmother, if there is a witch-gene this can jump two or three generations sometimes even more
Maybe it'ld be a Warren trait the mother-daughter transmission of the witch-gene
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Feb 22, 2011 8:43:36 GMT -5
Billie and Christy's mother wasn't a witch they got their magic from their grandmother, if there is a witch-gene this can jump two or three generations sometimes even more Maybe it'ld be a Warren trait the mother-daughter transmission of the witch-gene If that's the case, explain Wyatt and Chris, especially Chris. Wyatt is explained because he's Twice Blessed. Chris (who should've been Christina the way Wyatt should've been Prudence Melinda) would make sense if he only had whitelighter powers like his father, but he was also a witch with powers. I think the Jenkinses' mother was still a witch; she just didn't have powers. I'll always believe that the powers skipped a generation so all of the powers of that generation would instead be given by their mother's half-siser, Patricia Halliwell, to her daughters, the Charmed Ones, hence the reason why so much of the last season concentrated so much on the Jenkinses - fellow Warrens. Had Grams not bound the sisters' powers, it might have been Prue or Piper who was kidnapped and turned evil. |
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Feb 22, 2011 16:41:52 GMT -5
Actually, the manor was built on top of a "Chinese" nexus, not a Wiccan one.
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Post by NubianWitch on Feb 22, 2011 17:06:02 GMT -5
Actually, the manor was built on top of a "Chinese" nexus, not a Wiccan one. LJones is very right. A Wiccan nexus would have been the four principle Western elements of water, earth, fire and air, plus the element of spirit, not metal. |
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Post by erikamarie on Feb 24, 2011 12:22:33 GMT -5
Billie and Christy's mother wasn't a witch they got their magic from their grandmother, if there is a witch-gene this can jump two or three generations sometimes even more Maybe it'ld be a Warren trait the mother-daughter transmission of the witch-gene If that's the case, explain Wyatt and Chris, especially Chris. Wyatt is explained because he's Twice Blessed. Chris (who should've been Christina the way Wyatt should've been Prudence Melinda) would make sense if he only had whitelighter powers like his father, but he was also a witch with powers. I think the Jenkinses' mother was still a witch; she just didn't have powers. I'll always believe that the powers skipped a generation so all of the powers of that generation would instead be given by their mother's half-siser, Patricia Halliwell, to her daughters, the Charmed Ones, hence the reason why so much of the last season concentrated so much on the Jenkinses - fellow Warrens. Had Grams not bound the sisters' powers, it might have been Prue or Piper who was kidnapped and turned evil. Wyatt is easy to explain he is the son of Magic he'ld be born in Halliwell family or not it's not important he belongs to another prophecy, Melinda actually had not seen his arrival Chris is the son of a whitelighter-I know Leo was an Elder but a Elder is only a career whitelighter- he has his powers, TK and orbing He is able to do potion but I think Piper was a severe teacher In Chris Crossed he casts a powerful spell so he is a witch too but a witch without powers from Warren dinasty If you think that Chris inherited powers from his father you'ld think that Henry doesn't have powers a grandfather isn't enough |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Feb 25, 2011 4:06:59 GMT -5
Chris has telekinesis, which he had inherited from his great-grandmother, namely one Penelope Johnson Halliwell.
Can you be a little more specific? Are you saying that Mrs. Jenkins did not have a psi ability like telekinesis or premonitions? Or are you saying that she did not possess a psi ability AND was unable to cast spells and create potions?
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Feb 25, 2011 11:33:37 GMT -5
Chris has telekinesis, which he had inherited from his great-grandmother, namely one Penelope Johnson Halliwell. No, he inherited it from his father, one Leo Wyatt, who used it in Season One. It was a stronger form, but then that fit his personality, the way most powers reflected the personality of the person using it. After all, unlike his father, he wasn't a whitelighter, but a witch with whitelighter powers, not Warren powers. I have no idea! Just, as far as Charmed was concerned, she didn't have powers. Like I've said before, I don't try to explain magic - it takes away the fun. |
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Feb 25, 2011 13:21:52 GMT -5
I'm going to make a confession. I don't know from whom Chris had inherited his telekinesis ability. But . . . you might as well confess the same. Unless the show had pointed out in a specific episode that Chris had inherited his telekinesis from dear old Dad. And you managed to come to this conclusion about Chris' powers from only ONE EPISODE in which Leo used telekinesis? Strange. Wikipedia came to the opposite conclusion . . . that Chris had inherited his telekinesis from Penny Halliwell.
Why are you guys so determined that Chris had not inherited anything from the Warren line? Is it due to his gender? Is this all about gender politics?
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Post by NubianWitch on Feb 25, 2011 16:01:13 GMT -5
I'm going to make a confession. I don't know from whom Chris had inherited his telekinesis ability. But . . . you might as well confess the same. Unless the show had pointed out in a specific episode that Chris had inherited his telekinesis from dear old Dad. And you managed to come to this conclusion about Chris' powers from only ONE EPISODE in which Leo used telekinesis? Strange. Wikipedia came to the opposite conclusion . . . that Chris had inherited his telekinesis from Penny Halliwell. Why are you guys so determined that Chris had not inherited anything from the Warren line? Is it due to his gender? Is this all about gender politics? The way I see it: it can go three ways. Chris either inherited his telekinesis from his father, who was an Elder. Chris either inherited his telekinesis from the Warren line, since it had the same sound effect. Chris inherited his telekinesis from a male witch that a Warren may have married in the past, but skipped a few generations. The entire thing about the Warren line being all-female was fine, but when Grams started male-bashing, it made the Warren lore look incredibly sexist and self-serving. The thing is it was time for a change. Change is a law of life. So males in the Warren line shouldn't be too far off an idea. Old lore and old traditions have two destinies: death or change. For the Warren line, it was change. Change because there are technically four Charmed Ones. Change because two boys were born first rather than girls. We already know that there are male witches in the Charmed-verse. The Warren line was a matriarchal line and I'm sure there are patriarchal witch lines in the Charmed-verse, too. But with all family lines, things change. It's inevitable. |
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Post by ghostrider on Feb 25, 2011 16:31:46 GMT -5
Thank you, and blessings on to your house this day.
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