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Post by whitelightertony on Mar 9, 2008 5:06:50 GMT -5
Unfortunately, the writers did choose to define Phoebe based on her personality...and the character deteriorated because of it.  |
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pubesy
Witch
"If I could dream at all, it would be about you. And I'm not ashamed of it." - Edward Cullen
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Post by pubesy on Mar 9, 2008 5:26:40 GMT -5
how so?
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Post by whitelightertony on Mar 10, 2008 5:25:54 GMT -5
Phoebe became less and less about staying in touch with her magical side; her action consisted of:
-- kung-fu chopping every demon in sight
-- drowning herself in her work
-- searching for a future husband and daddy to Ladybug
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pubesy
Witch
"If I could dream at all, it would be about you. And I'm not ashamed of it." - Edward Cullen
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Post by pubesy on Mar 10, 2008 5:38:37 GMT -5
but not just phoebe. all the sisters.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Mar 10, 2008 10:54:05 GMT -5
Phoebe became less and less about staying in touch with her magical side; her action consisted of: -- kung-fu chopping every demon in sight -- drowning herself in her work -- searching for a future husband and daddy to Ladybug That happened . . . after her relationship with Cole ended. I take that back. That happened while her relationship with Cole was ending. I guess that in order to get rid of Cole from the show, Kern and his writers decided to regress Phoebe's character. Considering how Kern ended the Source storyline . . . I really find that hard to believe. |
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pubesy
Witch
"If I could dream at all, it would be about you. And I'm not ashamed of it." - Edward Cullen
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Post by pubesy on Mar 11, 2008 0:59:03 GMT -5
how did kern wreck the storyline?
he showed that no matter what happened, cole would always have reverted back to evil, it was in his nature/personality/all he knew how to be. Phoebe's love for cole would cause her to follow him down that path of evil, causing a rift between her sister(s) and that in the end she would realize that the relationship could not work and that it would have to end, by killing cole, because otherwise he would never let her go.
i thought it was quite clever. i know some people thought it was stupid for cole to go back to when prue died and he was merely belthazor, but it sort of made logical sense, that way paige cold travel back into time without seeing herself and having that added complication.
i believe the reason why cole did not go back to when he first took in the source was because at that time, when cole was approached by the avatars to travel back, he had a MASSIVE amount of power, he was not willing to give that power up and become a mere mortal again....even if it meant being with phoebe.....
in the end his hunger for power would always destroy him.
if you look at kern's writing from that OPEN MINDED perspective....brilliant!
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Mar 11, 2008 1:04:34 GMT -5
how did kern wreck the storyline? he showed that no matter what happened, cole would always have reverted back to evil, it was in his nature/personality/all he knew how to be. Phoebe's love for cole would cause her to follow him down that path of evil, causing a rift between her sister(s) and that in the end she would realize that the relationship could not work and that it would have to end, by killing cole, because otherwise he would never let her go. i thought it was quite clever. i know some people thought it was stupid for cole to go back to when prue died and he was merely belthazor, but it sort of made logical sense, that way paige cold travel back into time without seeing herself and having that added complication. i believe the reason why cole did not go back to when he first took in the source was because at that time, when cole was approached by the avatars to travel back, he had a MASSIVE amount of power, he was not willing to give that power up and become a mere mortal again....even if it meant being with phoebe..... in the end his hunger for power would always destroy him. if you look at kern's writing from that OPEN MINDED perspective....brilliant! Watch the second half of Season 4 again. I have pointed out the writing flaws on how the Source storyline ended so many times, I can barely keep count. You want to know my view on it? Find my old posts and read them. Okay? Also . . . if Cole's nature led him to revert back to evil in the long run, how do you explain the Halliwells' questionable acts on the show? Does that mean that they also possess a nature that leads them to revert to evil, also? Considering my view on human nature and the Charmed Ones' personalities, that does not sound like a bad explanation. |
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pubesy
Witch
"If I could dream at all, it would be about you. And I'm not ashamed of it." - Edward Cullen
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Post by pubesy on Mar 11, 2008 1:12:15 GMT -5
i am not talking about season 4, i am talking about centennial charmed. and we have been through this time and time and time and time and time again
not everyone shares your, pessimistic, narrow opinion of charmed and its writers.
rather than point out ever single thing YOU consider a flaw or a badly written script, how about pointing out the GOOD things for a change on charmed? something new.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Mar 11, 2008 1:14:14 GMT -5
i am not talking about season 4, i am talking about centennial charmed. and we have been through this time and time and time and time and time again not everyone shares your, pessimistic, narrow opinion of charmed and its writers. rather than point out ever single thing YOU consider a flaw or a badly written script, how about pointing out the GOOD things for a change on charmed? something new. And I'm going to tell you this time and time again . . . whatever happened in "Centennial Charmed" had its origins on how the Source storyline was ended in late S4. |
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pubesy
Witch
"If I could dream at all, it would be about you. And I'm not ashamed of it." - Edward Cullen
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Post by pubesy on Mar 11, 2008 1:18:26 GMT -5
yeah....ok, sure centennial charmed had origins in season 4 (obviously)
but i am not talking about s4. i am talking specifically about episode 100.
anyway, i did not mind how season 4 ended, as a matter of fact i quite liked it. see thats where you and i differ. i tend to ignore the flaws or explain them away.
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Post by whitelightertony on Mar 11, 2008 8:11:04 GMT -5
When did Piper and Paige start to neglect their magic (and neglect the art of honing their magical abilites)? When did Piper and Paige put their work lives before family? When did Piper and Phoebe obsess about finding "love" just to fulfill some questionable blip in a premonition?
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Mar 11, 2008 17:10:58 GMT -5
When did Piper and Paige start to neglect their magic (and neglect the art of honing their magical abilites)? When did Piper and Paige put their work lives before family? When did Piper and Phoebe obsess about finding "love" just to fulfill some questionable blip in a premonition? I don't know about Paige, but Piper has indulged in her own brand of selfishness . . . to the extent that it has harmed others. |
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Post by whitelightertony on Mar 13, 2008 4:22:41 GMT -5
Did Piper ever put P3 before Leo and the boys?
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Mar 13, 2008 14:30:30 GMT -5
Did Piper ever put P3 before Leo and the boys? Have I ever accused Piper of putting P3 before Leo and the boys? I don't think so. As for Piper's own brand of selfishness, let's go back in time . . . shall we? "Awakened" - Piper purchased the South American fruit that had not been inspected by U.S. Customs, because she wanted to be cheap. This not only endangered her life, but it endangered the life of others, after Prue and Phoebe used magic to heal her. "Once Upon a Time" - Pissed off because the Elders prevented her from marrying Leo, Piper refrained from helping that girl and the fairy deal with those trolls. Because of this, the girl ended up being kidnapped by trolls. "All Hell Breaks Loose" - Despite her protests, Piper allowed Prue to convince her to leave the house and go after Shax. This led to them being exposed by the media. She also agreed to help send Phoebe to the Source's Realm in order to search for Cole. Both actions helped lead to Prue's death. "Hell Hath No Fury" - Her inability to accept Prue's death turned Piper into an obssessed vigilante who endangered Phoebe and Cole with her reckless and vengeful pursuit of demons. This led to her becoming a Fury and endangering Phoebe, Cole and Paige. "Brain Drain" - Her unwillingness to deal with the danger that the Source presented and her desire to longer be a witch allowed the Source to convince her to use a spell to remove their powers at a time that would have been dangerous to them. "Oh Goddess!"/"Vahalley of the Dolls" - Her inability to deal with Leo leaving her to become an Elder led her to request that all memories of her personal pain be wiped by him. After Leo got sent to Vahalla by Chris, Phoebe and Paige stole Darryl's soul and left his body in an alley so they could get Leo from Vahalla and remove the spell from Piper. "Extreme Makeover" - Her desire for a "demon free" and happy life led her to consent to Phoebe's suggestion that they help the Avatars change humanity and turn them into pod people. This led to those not affected by the spell to be killed by the Avatars. This is what I could come up with so far. |
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Post by whitelightertony on Mar 14, 2008 1:45:33 GMT -5
No, you didn't.
And because you didn't make that accusation against Piper, you've perfectly illustrated my point: no one can credibly accuse Piper of doing the same thing I accused Phoebe of doing (putting work ahead of her family life).
Piper's examples of selfishness came from other desires - - but never a tendency to put her professional life ahead of her sons.
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pubesy
Witch
"If I could dream at all, it would be about you. And I'm not ashamed of it." - Edward Cullen
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Post by pubesy on Mar 14, 2008 5:55:06 GMT -5
those were poor examples of piper being selfish, i must say.
they were not purely selfish, they were understandable human behaviour.
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Post by Astral Echo on Mar 14, 2008 13:11:28 GMT -5
Piper was selfish but so was Phoebe, Paige was to a certain extent but the only really selfless person was Prue and even Prue could be selfish sometimes! There is no such thing as a selfless person - who ever thinks they're selfless themselves don't know the true meaning of selfless.
You can - not be selfish but you can't be forever selfless! If you get what I mean.
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Post by ~B@MeLiSsA30@B~ on Mar 14, 2008 13:49:08 GMT -5
When did this change from Cole & Phoebe to talking about Piper?
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pubesy
Witch
"If I could dream at all, it would be about you. And I'm not ashamed of it." - Edward Cullen
Posts: 1,171
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Post by pubesy on Mar 14, 2008 23:58:23 GMT -5
since when do these threads ever stay on topic!
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Mar 15, 2008 4:22:25 GMT -5
No, you didn't. And because you didn't make that accusation against Piper, you've perfectly illustrated my point: no one can credibly accuse Piper of doing the same thing I accused Phoebe of doing (putting work ahead of her family life). Piper's examples of selfishness came from other desires - - but never a tendency to put her professional life ahead of her sons. Great. But I never said that Piper's selfishness was similar to Phoebe. I had stated that she had her own brand of selfishness: |
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