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Post by vandergraafk on Nov 9, 2007 18:55:00 GMT -5
I don't know that she took courses at community college. My bet is that she attended San Francisco State and go perhaps the 2 1/2 years worth of credit. I have no problem with any similar scenario.
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colehellsangel
Familiar
In Love and War; or in this case Love IS war.
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Post by colehellsangel on Nov 13, 2007 0:50:15 GMT -5
I like the poll creator chose not to kill anyone. I am also a Prue fan. I am not anti-Paige though so I say still introduce her but as a less important character, a guest even if you will.
For example. She grows up and still finds out about her powers and when given her first assignment as a whightlighter her charge as we see in season five is Sam. Thus Sam visits the charmed ones again and introduces them to his daughter however we don't find out until later that she is also their half sister.
Just a wild idea because I want to keep Prue but I don't want to chuck Paige.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Nov 13, 2007 20:23:32 GMT -5
I wonder if the real reason Phoebe had embraced witchcraft so eagerly was because it helped build her fragile self-esteem.
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Post by foxfire on Nov 14, 2007 10:53:16 GMT -5
It's funny, Phoebe seemed to have had a fragile self-esteem not around guys but around her own sisters. It was clear that she always kind of felt like she didn't measure up and I think that problem finally comes to a head in season three when Cole has a demon break the sisters apart.
Now, just to kind of touch on the poll again. I've been rewatching a lot of Charmed over again. I actually really do like Paige but at the same time I love Prue (more). I love all the sisters actually and it's hard for me to say "I'd rather this one not ever be in the show so Prue could live".
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Nov 14, 2007 11:31:24 GMT -5
Um, she would have in "Witch Way Now?", but Phoebe changed her mind, and Phoebe and Paige outvoted her. She should have went ahead and done it, anyway. There was nothing holding Piper back, but her own misguided beliefs that all three sisters had to be witches at the same time. The world had existed for centuries without the Power of Three. It could have done so without Piper continuing to be a witch.
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Post by vandergraafk on Nov 15, 2007 18:31:49 GMT -5
Perhaps. But wasn't this hypothetical considered and answered in Season 6? In My Three Witches, Piper gets her wish: a world without magic (her own). But, that doesn't stop demons from coming after her, does it? The point is: even if Piper had wanted to quit being a witch, she could not have simply gone about life in the perhaps normal way she imagined. As long as she was alive, the potential to reconstitute the Charmed Ones was always present, lest each of the three or a majority of two voted to give up their powers. Paige and Phoebe were clearly not.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Nov 15, 2007 18:47:15 GMT -5
Does that really make any sense to you? Because it doesn't to me. It seems as if Kern was trying to justify the sisters continuing their activities as witches, when he really didn't have much of an excuse.
Piper longing for a normal life seemed like nothing more than a pipe dream on her part, considering that mortals do not have normal lives, anyway.
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Post by vandergraafk on Nov 16, 2007 12:10:01 GMT -5
Some mortals give the appearance of leading normal lives. Perhaps that's just an illusion on their part or delusion of mine. Needless to say, Piper had a vision of what a world without (her) magic might entail.
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charmedwvuguy25
Innocent
Then we're stuck in our future bodies with no way of getting out of them and no way of saving Phoebe
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Post by charmedwvuguy25 on Nov 17, 2007 6:34:44 GMT -5
Oooh that's a good one. I wondered why, after them semi-vanquishing him, he didn't return to The Source to give the information that they had almost defeated him, and then waited for another attack on Dr. Griffiths. Why, then, DID Prue drag Piper along to attempt yet ANOTHER vanquish? Why not just do a summoning spell or something in order to vanquish his sorry butt? Then we wouldn't have had to worry about Phoebe not being able to help Prue and Piper and we would've had Shannen back for another wonderful season. I personally agree with whomever said that we would've only had 4 seasons but they would've been the best, because I think Shannen wanted the show to evolve from just a tv show about sisters who happen to be witches, to sisters who happen to be witches with semi-normal lives and protectors of the innocent. That, and the 5th season sucked. I hated that they got so far away from normal (heh yeah I said it) demons and veered towards all those mythological and Greek gods/goddesses/magical beings. Granted, some were ok (i.e. Witches in Tights... I mean, I may be gay and all, but to see Holly, Alyssa and Rose in tights kickin butt? ) but the majority of them sucked. I preferred the show with Shannen because they had more depth and a storyline to them. They weren't just out there having to hide from every tom, prick and demon out there: they were in the house or going shopping or this that and the other, and if one saw a demon, they called/contacted the other ones and let them know and then they all came together and vanquished his/her/its/their sorry ass(es)! Another good example of such an episode? Blinded By The Whitelighter. One more? Aw, come on. Pre-Witched.
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Post by whitelightertony on Nov 17, 2007 23:11:51 GMT -5
Why would Piper voluntarily strip herself of her own powers if Phoebe and Paige were going to keep theirs?
Piper and Leo still wanted a baby. If they did get to have a baby, they'd be sharing the manor with a still-powerful Phoebe and still-powerful Paige. And demons and other forces of Evil would still target the manor. So it makes sense that Piper would (reluctantly) agree to keep her powers, so she could protect her future children.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Nov 18, 2007 7:02:43 GMT -5
Considering that Phoebe had wanted to get rid of her powers . . . why not? Why do the Charmed Ones or the Power of Three have to continue to exist in the first place? The supernatural world had existed long before they had arrived on the scene. It never made sense to me that the Earth or the magic world was in danger of being overran by demons, because the sisters had decided to give up being witches for a while between Season 7 and Season 8.
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Post by whitelightertony on Nov 18, 2007 17:30:26 GMT -5
Except that, by the end of "Witch Way Now?", Phoebe had changed her mind and decided she wanted to keep her powers after all.
Phoebe really ended up being the swing vote, since Paige never wanted to give up her powers.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Nov 18, 2007 20:37:44 GMT -5
I don't like Phoebe any more than you do. But I cannot place most of the blame for what happened in "All Hell Breaks Loose" on her shoulders. If Prue had blamed Phoebe, then I feel that she would have been guilty of being hypocritical and not accepting her part in what happened.
If the sisters had remained in the manor and waited for another attack by Shax, I think that their chances of saving that doctor would have been pretty good. But Prue had allowed her pride to get the best of her and insisted upon dragging Piper out of the house to hunt down Shax and kill him. It was an act that started the whole mess in motion.
I believe that Prue had a lot to answer for. Piper didn't like the idea of leaving the house, but had allowed herself to be dictated by Prue. Yes, Phoebe should have remained in the house until they were certain that Shax was gone for good. But . . . if Prue and Piper were that reluctant about her leaving to find Cole, they should have refused to help Phoebe teleport to the Source's Realm.
Sorry, but I don't think that Phoebe should take most of the blame for what happened.
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Post by vandergraafk on Nov 19, 2007 22:09:42 GMT -5
Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. Well, have we really come full circle back to blaming Prue again? Oh my.
Nevertheless, ljones does touch on an issue that I don't believe can be ignored. Again, it turns on the prophecy of which Melinda Warren spoke.
If destiny had so ordered that there arise three powerful sister witches, the most powerful witches of all time, then one might rightly question why they were needed. Was the demonic underworld threatening to tilt the balance between good and evil demonstrably towards its favor for a lengthy or even permanent period of time? Did such a threat necessitate the existence of three powerful sister witches to emerge as a counterbalance?
Each of these and other similar grave questions can be avoided, however, if one simply regards Melinda's prophecy as merely self-fulfilling. That is, she had already learned from her mother and those in her mother's coven that the three most powerful witches of all time had gone back in time to save baby Melinda from the demonic underworld. If this is the case, then there is no need to posit a demonic threat to tilt the balance permanently.
Nor must we even acknowledge that the Charmed Ones are the most powerful witches of all time. At the time of the threat to baby Melinda, there was no Wyatt nor any other Halliwell offspring who might claim to be as powerful as or more powerful than the Charmed Ones. The claim merely rests on the assumption of Charlotte's coven that they asked for and received the help of the most powerful witches of all time.
What is, of course, a danger is that the Charmed Ones, having vanquished the Source, defeated the TRIAD, dispensed with Zankou and banished Barbas yet again had weakened the demonic underworld considerably. However, this might only be a temporary phenomenon. Indeed, Chris Crossed points to a reality where the offspring of the Charmed Ones might themselves constitute a new evil force that would restore the balance between Good and Evil or tilt it momentarily back in favor of Evil.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Nov 19, 2007 23:17:20 GMT -5
Perhaps.
Although I do have another little theory. What if the Elders Council had deliberately made Charlotte Warren's line powerful in order to bring about the Charmed Ones . . . so that they will kill the Source?
Like I said . . . just a theory.
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Post by foxfire on Nov 20, 2007 11:00:22 GMT -5
There have always been witches around to help keep the balance of good and evil. So why were the Charmed Ones actually needed? That's a really good question. Perhaps we should look to a show with a similar "prophecy" concept: Buffy. Into each generation a new Slayer is born with the abilities to help fight vampires. Is the Slayer needed to kill off vampires? No. Humans can still do it. So why is she needed? Well... every evil minion needs a leader. A Big Bad.
Essentially, the Slayer and the Charmed Ones, for that matter, are needed to help fight the stronger demons that humans would have no chance against. There is also a neccessity for the Charmed Ones because of the "Power of Three" spells which are required to kill certain demons (that regular witches couldn't).
What I want to know is why these "Power of Three" spells existed in the book... it makes no sense that there would be because the Charmed Ones are the first "Power of Three" so those who wrote in the book wouldn't know if those spells actually worked or not...
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Nov 20, 2007 18:12:52 GMT -5
Why? The Source had existed for a long time before the Charmed Ones became witches. In fact, more powerful demons were in existence before the fall of 1998.
As for the Slayer, the only reason she existed was because three African shamans concocted a spell that turned an ordinary girl into a powerful demon/vampire hunter. And they had chosen a girl, because they felt it would be easier to control her.
But have you ever seen the Charmed Ones battle evil outside of San Francisco? The closest that ever happened was in "How to Make an American Out of a Quilt". Have you ever seen Buffy battle demons, first outside of L.A. and later, Sunnydale? No. And yet, demons and vampires - powerful ones at that - must have appeared in other locations.
So, I don't really see how the Charmed Ones and the Slayer were badly needed. After all, brute power - even if it comes in the form of magic - isn't everything.
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Post by vandergraafk on Nov 20, 2007 22:33:01 GMT -5
True, true, but the novels do expand the horizon of the Charmed Ones beyond "San Francisco". Can you imagine if Charmed had had to develop stock footage for other locations besides San Francisco? In eight seasons they only managed to leave "SF" twice: Season 2's How to Make a Quilt and Season 3's The Good, the Bad and the Cursed".
As for the Power of Three spells, again this is evidence of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Their ancestors know of three powerful sister witches who will be the most powerful witches of all time. If an ancestor cannot vanquish a demon, then how tempting it must have been to note that to vanquish the demon might require a power of three spell, a term probably invented somewhere along the ancestral way.
Or, one could subscribe to ljones' theory that the Elders were aware of this all along and it is they who placed, as foxfire suggests, references regarding the power of three into the Book of Shadows. We know from Season 7 that the Elders are aware of its content. And, we know they can place spells there at their discretion. So, why not consider ljones' theory or foxfire's conjecture?
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Reality Bites
Familiar
When witches don't fight we burn.
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Post by Reality Bites on Nov 20, 2007 23:42:21 GMT -5
True, true, but the novels do expand the horizon of the Charmed Ones beyond "San Francisco". Can you imagine if Charmed had had to develop stock footage for other locations besides San Francisco? In eight seasons they only managed to leave "SF" twice: Season 2's How to Make a Quilt and Season 3's The Good, the Bad". To be fair, The Charmed Ones travel to Egypt in Season 5's "Y Tu Mummy Tambien".
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Nov 21, 2007 0:45:33 GMT -5
I just figured that if the supernatural world - even when filled with "powerful demons" - managed to survive without the Charmed Ones prior to Fall 1998, why would the magical world need the Halliwells to exist afterward?
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