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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2015 7:11:53 GMT -5
Yep there were many ways Rick could have been dealt with, either by disarming him or knocking him out.
-Paige orbs the gun. (Or even just the bullets if she wants to be more subtle about it)
-Phoebe uses her martial arts to disarm him (there's no way she won't have learned ways to do that)
-Piper walks in and freezes him.
They'd dealt with guns before and since, it wasn't exactly new territory for them.
On season 6 generally, there are parts I like and parts I loathe. For example:
Positives-
* For the most part, I actually prefer it story wise to season 5. Once they actually decide what the main arc is (which unfortunately takes them far too damn long) I think it improves considerably.
* I Dream of Phoebe. A Phoebe-centric costumey episode that I actually love. That's no small feat.
* Darryl actually gets a story that has actual consequences. Wow, only took 6 years.
* It's a Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad World. One of my favourite finales.
* Gideon. Okay, so I didn't love him. But I like that they tried a villain who wasn't another easily vanquishable demon or warlock.
* I like that some things actually impact on what happens next season... with Leo, Chris etc. As opposed to season 5 where they pretended like it would but then nothing changed.
Negatives-
* Charmed can't keep time travel rules straight for sh*t.
* Chris inconsistencies.
* Paige inconsistencies.
* Leo with no real need to be around before well into the second half.
* Phoebe and her empathy (a wasted opportunity)
* Valhalley of the Dolls- Horrible premiere that is 90% recycled themes from A Witch's Tail p1 and 2
* Witchstock
* I think this might be the worst season for the sisters bitching about wanting normal lives/having magic. Their complaining seems non-stop in this one. Especially Piper.
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Post by BettyN on Jun 23, 2015 13:53:44 GMT -5
I agree with much of what you said, P3Nathan, especially this:
Phoebe's empathy was, yet, another inconsistency. "Primrose Empath" had established empathy as something that was given to special people *after death*, similar to whitelighter abilities, so Phoebe should've NEVER gotten the ability as somebody who was still alive. Of course, it all ended up being a waste anyways, since she permanently lost the power after "Crimes and Witchdemeanors."
As for "Valhalley of the Dolls"... Well, if you ask me, all of the premiers after "Charmed Again" stunk. They were all either shoddily written costume-fests ("A Witch's Tail," "Valhalley of the Dolls," and "A Call to Arms"), or they revolved around storylines that just should've NEVER happened ("Still Charmed and Kicking").
Tim pretty much said how I feel about "Witchstock," but it can't be said enough. WHY wasn't this episode sent to the shredder?!? The time wasted on this episode could've been better-spent on a follow-up to "Chris-Crossed."
Yeah, the sisters' whining and complaining got REALLY out of hand in the later seasons. All but Paige had become completely unlikable by this point. (And, Paige, herself, had devolved into being a mugging, twitching bimbo. Despite this, she did still sort-of cared about innocents, which is more than I could say for Piper and Phoebe.)
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Post by tim66 on Jun 23, 2015 23:38:34 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more. This was not a demon like Zankou, it was just a thug with a gun. The Halliwell sisters could have easily dealt with him without having to resort to murder. I have had a couple of times in which R&H found guns pointed at them. In all those incidents, R&H defeated the villains without killing them.
p3nathan got that right. No doubt referring to his activities early on, before The Big Reveal (as TV Tropes would say) that he's Piper's second son. Like forgetting she could orb that gun  Yeah, he really had little to do here. Of course, I hated Piper dating. We don't need a Freebie Mark II. As I said, a second rate Deanna Troi. Of course, the writers wised up and got rid of this power. Watching that, you could be forgiven for thinking you'd accidentally turned on UPN and were watching American's Next Top Model. Only Tyra Banks was missing. The only episode that the R&H Chronicles ignores, and for good reason. Witchstock literally sh*t all over canon, I had no choice but to jettison it. Hey, Halliwells, next time any of you start bleating about wanting a normal life, I suggest you go talk to the Winchester boys. They would kill to have what you have.
In case some of you are curious about the Rex and Hannah Chronicles, they can be found here:
casahalliwell.proboards.com/board/10/rex-hannah-chronicles-stories
Or here:
www.fanfiction.net/u/4415262/Tim66
No harm in a little self promotion, right  |
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Jun 24, 2015 2:07:41 GMT -5
No there isn't tim66 that's why there's such things called fanfiction where people iron out all show inconsistences depending what ones they watch and what wasn't good about them or it and fix that which's why so many people read and live them more than the show/shows combined altogether.
Though that's not to say all tv shows are bad. Some do have very good writing in them.
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Post by tim66 on Jun 24, 2015 6:09:05 GMT -5
Funny you should mention that, Melinda. In several of my R&H Chronicles, I fixed things that I felt needed fixing. Kira the Seer was rescued from the Wasteland in my fourth story, Revelations (and this was in 2008, seven years before Pat Shand brought her back). My seventh story, The Trouble Spirit, give Billie and Christy Jenkins what was, IMO, the proper resolution to their storyline. And there were a few more as well.
However, there was nothing I could do about Witchstock. That episode was so screwed up, continuity was so bent out of shape, all I could do was ignore it.
I'm not saying Charmed was a bad show, for the most part, it wasn't (especially in the earlier seasons). However, Brad Kern and his writer made some very bad decisions. Looks like it's up to us fans to fix them.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 12:10:19 GMT -5
As for "Valhalley of the Dolls"... Well, if you ask me, all of the premiers after "Charmed Again" stunk. They were all either shoddily written costume-fests ("A Witch's Tail," "Valhalley of the Dolls," and "A Call to Arms"), or they revolved around storylines that just should've NEVER happened ("Still Charmed and Kicking"). Yeah I agree. Charmed Again was the last premiere I considered good. The last 3 are particularly terrible. I'd probably say Valhalley was the worst for me, mostly because even though A Call to Arms and Still Charmed and Kicking are horrendous on many levels... at least they have the decency to be over in 40 minutes. Plus as I said, Valhalley is 90% recycled from "A Witch's Tail". I didn't realise it until I re watched all the season premieres and finales together: AWT- One of the sisters, (Phoebe), has just lost her love and ended her marriage, (Cole). VotD- One of the sisters, (Piper), has just lost her love and ended her marriage, (Leo). AWT- Meanwhile Paige is having doubts about her job choices. VotD- Meanwhile Paige is having doubts about her job choices. AWT- Magical problem ensues and a sister must transform into a (mermaid) to help solve it. VotD- Magical problem ensues and the sisters must transform into (valkyries) to help solve it. AWT- At the end of part 1, (Phoebe) likes being a (mermaid) because it stops her having to deal with the emotion, so she separates from her sisters so she can stay that way. VotD- At the end of part 1, (Piper) likes being a (valkyrie) because it stops her having to deal with the emotion, so she separates from her sisters so she can stay that way. AWT- Emotions must be acknowledged to get (Phoebe) back, so Paige casts the "open heart" spell. VotD- Emotions must be acknowledged to get (Piper) back, so Paige casts the "open heart" spell. AWT- Once she acknowledges her feelings, (Phoebe) is back to normal. VotD- Once she acknowledges her feelings, (Piper) is back to normal. |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
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Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
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Post by Esmeralda on Jun 24, 2015 12:24:07 GMT -5
Wow, I hadn't realized all of that, p3Nathan (probably because I haven't watched any of the season premieres beyond "Charmed Again" in I'm not sure how many years - I count watching them a total waste of my time), but you're absolutely right.
I have my own reasons for disliking, no, HATING "Valkyie of the Dolls", my least-favorite episode of the entire series. That's due to Chris murdering three Valkyres, just so he could take their pendants so the sisters could go save Leo, and Phoebe and Paige taking Darryl's soul without his permission. It's when "The wrong thing done for the right reason is still the wrong thing" became "Ends Justify the Means" and Phoebe and Paige became just as evil as the evil they were chasing. I give Chris a bit of a "do-over" on this one because at least he regretted having to do it (but not enough to stop him from doing it again two times), but Phoebe and Paige (who's supposed to be taking Prue's place as the moral compass) never even apologized - they honestly thought they were perfectly justified in doing the horrible thing they did, just like when they'd later murder Rick, just so they could save a family member. This is when they became protectors of the Halliwells rather than the protectors of the innocents and no longer earned the right to be called Charmed Ones or the right to use Warren powers - Phoebe wasn't the only one who should've lost her powers - both she and Paige should be totally powerless for what they did.
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Post by BettyN on Jun 24, 2015 13:19:21 GMT -5
They really overdid it with the 2-part episodes in Seasons 5 and 6. There was NO need for the mermaid/valkyrie episodes to be that long, if they had to even be that long at all. Same goes for "Oh, My Goddess," which was the show's worst finale ever besides "Forever Charmed" (which was the show's worst episode ever, IMO).
There's only a few episodes I ever cut off without ever finishing, and that's one of them. Awful, awful episode, and I say this as someone who doesn't hate Chris and Season 6 nearly as much as you do.
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Post by tim66 on Jun 24, 2015 15:09:08 GMT -5
I agree. Charmed Again was, in many ways, in the wake of Prue's death, re-launching the show. So I can understand why it would be two hours long.
However, the same does not apply for the mermaid and Valkyrie stuff to be more than one episode long. Heck ONE episode was too long for those rubbish storylines.
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Post by BettyN on Jun 24, 2015 20:09:41 GMT -5
I have a feeling that (Surprise!) the Frog Network can partially be blamed for "A Witch's Tail" and "Valhalley of the Dolls." They probably saw the high ratings "Charmed Again" received compared to the rest of Season 4 and thought that making every other premier a two-parter would guarantee high ratings (completely forgetting that the main reason "Charmed Again" got high ratings was not because it was two parts, but because people wanted to see how Prue's death would be handled and how Paige would be written in). Plus, the Frog could NEVER pass up an opportunity to stick Alyssa and her funbags front and center on a poster. Apparently, in the Frog's mind, the ratings dropped in Season 4 because there weren't enough Horny Teenage Boys watching.  Well, "A Witch's Tail" and "Valhalley of the Dolls" both got high ratings (in fact, even higher than "Charmed Again," each getting 6.3 million instead of 6 million), but I highly doubt it was for the reasons the Frog Network intended. Most people tuned into the former for Cole and Piper's pregancy and the latter for Chris. The skimpy costumes were hardly a factor. |
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Post by tim66 on Jun 24, 2015 20:45:55 GMT -5
I was pretty hard on Brad Kern in the past. Although he is not absolved of many of the mistakes of the later season, I've come to realize that the WB may also be the villain of the piece. They never really treated Charmed well, didn't they. They criminally under promoted it, and when they did, the promoted the wrong aspects. In the later seasons, one could be forgiven for thinking that Charmed was a "wiggle and jiggle" show, from some of the promotions the WB aired. Take a look at the S8 promotions (I think there are some on YouTube) and you'll see what I mean.
Of course, S8 was the season that the WB cut, or should I say, disembowelled, the budget. We all know this is why Dorian Gregory was let go and Brian Krause cut back to half a season. However, what was worse that they were now fully confined to the Paramount lot. Going on location was not beyond there means. Notice that in S8, you saw them in the Manor, but never on the street outside. All the footage of the outside the Manor that season came from previous seasons. Even the ending of Forever Charmed was just the ending of Witch Way Now with the Angel Of Destiny digitally removed. Watch the two endings and you'll see what I mean.
One scene comes to mind here, when Billie rescues some guy from a demon and puts the guy in a taxi, that just screams "studio lot". And the was that alley. It was always the SAME alley. Look I can only watch the same dumpster so many times...
Charmed would have done better on a mainstream network like CBS (where the proposed reboot was going on air on, before it was cancelled). |
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Post by tim66 on Jun 25, 2015 6:58:34 GMT -5
I also wish continuity had been paid attention to. Like for my R&H Chronicles, I made a time line and every time I write a new story, said time line is updated. It helps me keep track. Check out the time line, folks, I'm pretty proud of it:
casahalliwell.proboards.com/thread/812/time-line |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2015 7:55:08 GMT -5
The WB promos did get ridiculous later on and some of the titles they gave them... "Hot Mammas", "Dirty Blondes", "Midnight Rendezvous", "Stormy Leather". Not that the original titles were always great, but it's no wonder so many people got the impression that Charmed was some cheap, soft-core porno flick. I find it funny that they aired it earlier and introduced tons of fairy tale stuff; supposedly to make it more family friendly... and yet the characters are far more sexualised from season 5 onward. TNT (and pretty much any other network showing Charmed) did far better advertising than the WB later on. So many WB promos were just embarrassing. If those adverts were the first I saw of Charmed, I'm pretty sure I'd be put off ever watching it. |
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Post by BettyN on Jun 25, 2015 13:19:22 GMT -5
The WB promos did get ridiculous later on and some of the titles they gave them... "Hot Mammas", "Dirty Blondes", "Midnight Rendezvous", "Stormy Leather". Not that the original titles were always great, but it's no wonder so many people got the impression that Charmed was some cheap, soft-core porno flick. I find it funny that they aired it earlier and introduced tons of fairy tale stuff; supposedly to make it more family friendly... and yet the characters are far more sexualised from season 5 onward. TNT (and pretty much any other network showing Charmed) did far better advertising than the WB later on. So many WB promos were just embarrassing. If those adverts were the first I saw of Charmed, I'm pretty sure I'd be put off ever watching it. Yeah, the WB's promotion of Charmed just got outright trashy in the later seasons. Just compare the Season 1 group pictures to those from Season 8. In the former, Shannen, Holly, and Alyssa were dressed normally and actually resembled their characters on the show, while in the latter, Holly, Alyssa, and Rose were super glammed up and stuffed into tight, low-cut tops that let their boobs hang out, hardly resembling their characters. The change was especially dramatic with Alyssa, who went from looking like this to looking like this. And, then you had those TERRIBLE, often inaccurate posters that were made for certain episodes like this one and (especially) this one that served NO other purpose than to lure in the Horny Teenage Boys with the promise of some half-naked Alyssa. The Frog Network was starting to do its Titanic impression by this point, and they mistakenly thought that turning themselves into Playboy Lite would save their dying network. Good riddance! I was pretty hard on Brad Kern in the past. Although he is not absolved of many of the mistakes of the later season, I've come to realize that the WB may also be the villain of the piece. They never really treated Charmed well, didn't they. They criminally under promoted it, and when they did, the promoted the wrong aspects. In the later seasons, one could be forgiven for thinking that Charmed was a "wiggle and jiggle" show, from some of the promotions the WB aired. Take a look at the S8 promotions (I think there are some on YouTube) and you'll see what I mean.
Of course, S8 was the season that the WB cut, or should I say, disembowelled, the budget. We all know this is why Dorian Gregory was let go and Brian Krause cut back to half a season. However, what was worse that they were now fully confined to the Paramount lot. Going on location was not beyond there means. Notice that in S8, you saw them in the Manor, but never on the street outside. All the footage of the outside the Manor that season came from previous seasons. Even the ending of Forever Charmed was just the ending of Witch Way Now with the Angel Of Destiny digitally removed. Watch the two endings and you'll see what I mean.
One scene comes to mind here, when Billie rescues some guy from a demon and puts the guy in a taxi, that just screams "studio lot". And there was that alley. It was always the SAME alley. Look I can only watch the same dumpster so many times...
Charmed would have done better on a mainstream network like CBS (where the proposed reboot was going on air on, before it was cancelled). Yeah, as easy as it is to blame everything on Kern, in reality, he was never anything more than the Shax to the WB's Source. Kern actually had little creative control, so many of the bad decisions of the later seasons can ultimately be traced back to the Frog Network. |
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Post by StoryGirl83 on Jun 25, 2015 21:46:17 GMT -5
The WB promos did get ridiculous later on and some of the titles they gave them... "Hot Mammas", "Dirty Blondes", "Midnight Rendezvous", "Stormy Leather". Not that the original titles were always great, but it's no wonder so many people got the impression that Charmed was some cheap, soft-core porno flick. I find it funny that they aired it earlier and introduced tons of fairy tale stuff; supposedly to make it more family friendly... and yet the characters are far more sexualised from season 5 onward. TNT (and pretty much any other network showing Charmed) did far better advertising than the WB later on. So many WB promos were just embarrassing. If those adverts were the first I saw of Charmed, I'm pretty sure I'd be put off ever watching it. P3Nathan, yeah, those names used for advertising did pretty much stink. Sometimes I think I was really lucky to rediscover Charmed (I watched two season one episodes when they aired and half of one season eight episode, which at the time I thought was a rerun) after the show was off the air. I didn't have to deal with things like corny advertisements and bad fake names for episodes. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2015 9:29:44 GMT -5
Ditto. Living in the UK, the advertising wasn't as regular, but it was far better than the embarrassing WB attempts. --------- So I figured I'd refresh my memory of season 6 a little. For all the reasons already discussed, I wasn't gonna start with Valhalley, so here are a few thoughts that came up for me starting from Forget Me Not. Forget Me NotThe infamous dragon incident. The casual attitude and lack of anything done afterwards about this whole thing is still very frustrating. If anything, Piper pretty much proves The Cleaners right, she obviously can't handle it. This is just example 1 of Wyatt endangering others and himself with magic he's clearly too young to use responsibly, but of course binding his powers is out of the question because... erm... boys will be boys? What's a bit of dragon based slaughter right?  Phoebe's empathy, oh good lord. So she started a riot. It's strange, ya know, Phoebe feels just what the person she's channeling feels, right? So she felt the mail man's lust, that guy from work's anger, Piper's anger previously. But notice how the mail man didn't sexually pounce on Phoebe, how the guy from work didn't punch Elise like Phoebe did, how Piper didn't start attacking Leo? It's almost as if they have something Phoebe doesn't. Oh I dunno, self control?!?! Anyway, this was another crappy attempt at using her power for comedy... funny how her assaulting a whole bunch of people and getting off scot-free doesn't amuse me that much. Then we have Paige committing another assault. Because apparently framing her friend for attacking her boss solves her sexual harassment problem? Wonder how that works exactly... not that it matters since the "beauty" of Paige's temp jobs is that we'll never see this place or these people again, so no need to follow up on things.  Almost every Piper and Leo scene in these early episodes is just stupid. All the awkward "we're separated now" moments. Nothing has changed! He's around just as much as he's ever been! They try to play out all the same consequences to something they never actually followed through with, it's stupid! The Power of Three BlondesNot gonna lie, this one's always been a bit of a guilty pleasure for me. I think it's a decent "switch your brain off and smirk" episode. Can't help but love the scene where none of the Stillman sisters want to be saddled with Phoebe's powers lol. Wyatt crying... "I think he just misses his daddy". This bugged me about the so called "separation" too. Piper not wanting Leo around (even though he is anyway). So Wyatt doesn't get time with his dad because Piper feels awkward? Leo has to orb in when he's asleep to spend time with him? I don't buy for a second that he'd be fine with that; but of course he's a Charmed man, so doormat is his middle name. Phoebe is worried that Jason only feels sexual desire for her. Seriously Phoebe? He asked you to move with him to Hong Kong, exactly what does he need to do to show his commitment? And once again, stop using your empathy as an excuse for your lack of self control! If I was Elise I'd be lining your damn work desk with barbed wire! Love's A WitchI'd totally forgive either Paige or Piper for hitting Phoebe this episode. That bit where Paige orbs an apple into her mouth might be the best use of her power in the whole series... oh but there was that time she threw the cake in her face. Anyway, I can't stand Phoebe this episode, not that I've liked her up to now, but she's particularly obnoxious here. She just has no respect for anyone's feelings or privacy and yet again she has no self-control. Just because you feel someone's emotion(s) doesn't mean you instantly have to blurt it out for the whole room to hear! Have some damn respect for people's personal feelings! It became clear to me in this episode that the writers were well aware of how annoying Phoebe was, but I guess they thought it was funny rather than infuriating. I actually don't mind the feud story. I'd forgotten about the Rome and Juliet referencing. I don't mind Richard; I've never been that into Balthazar Getty, but I think he had decent chemistry with Rose and the back story is interesting enough. More stupid Piper-Leo scenes. Leo: "I know this is awkward, me being here."Yup, probably because you were written out already. Then again, not sure which is more tedious... the Piper/Leo pseudo-separation scenes or the oh so exciting and plentiful 'Leo follows Chris around' scenes. If anyone has watched Lupa's Charmed reviews, she's makes a very good point about the climax of this episode. Phoebe feels Olivia's emotion and is ready to vanquish her, but Paige is the one who actually gets her to move on. I think Lupa said something along the lines of: "This is one of the issues with Phoebe's empathy. Knowing what someone is feeling and understanding it are two different things." Phoebe makes no effort to understand the emotions she feels, she either just blurts them out or immediately acts on them without thinking. How this woman has a super famous advice column is a mystery to me if this is how she deals with human emotions! Paige: "Maybe instead of controlling your power, you could maybe learn to... I dunno... control yourself?"Thank you Paige! Yes! Glad you agree with me. Knew I liked you. |
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Post by BettyN on Jun 26, 2015 9:50:56 GMT -5
Great reviews, P3Nathan! The infamous dragon incident. The casual attitude and lack of anything done afterwards about this whole thing is still very frustrating. If anything, Piper pretty much proves The Cleaners right, she obviously can't handle it. This is just example 1 of Wyatt endangering others and himself with magic he's clearly too young to use responsibly, but of course binding his powers is out of the question because... erm... boys will be boys? What's a bit of dragon based slaughter right? The Cleaners were a bad idea from the get-go. Why wasn't it ever explained why they didn't intervene when magic was exposed in "All Hell Breaks Loose"? Were they busy? Or, were they only created later on because of that incident? How hard was it to keep this stuff consistent? That being said, I have a feeling that Kern eventually found the Cleaners to be a mistake, too, because they were never seen or heard from again after Season 6. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2015 10:01:43 GMT -5
That's true. It's more annoying because they could have easily fixed the inconsistency in "Crime and Witch-demeanors" when Barbas questions the Cleaner. He says: Barbas- "You have been assigned to watch The Charmed Ones since they first became witches, have you not?"
Cleaner- "That is correct." And everyone watching goes "WHAAAAAAAT?!?!" All they needed to do was say something like: Barbas- "When were you assigned to the Charmed Ones?"
Cleaner- "About three years a go. The witches were trusted to take care of their own messes up until exposure led to the death of Prue Halliwell. That is when we were assigned, to make sure nothing as bad happened again."They even mention Prue's death in the damn episode  But as you say, they were forgotten about after anyway. |
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Jun 26, 2015 13:44:19 GMT -5
That would've been a better explanation on the Cleaners than what was mentioned certainly or even a similar comment in 'The Power Of Three Blondes'.
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Post by BettyN on Jun 26, 2015 14:30:44 GMT -5
That's true. It's more annoying because they could have easily fixed the inconsistency in "Crime and Witch-demeanors" when Barbas questions the Cleaner. He says: Barbas- "You have been assigned to watch The Charmed Ones since they first became witches, have you not?"
Cleaner- "That is correct." And everyone watching goes "WHAAAAAAAT?!?!" All they needed to do was say something like: Barbas- "When were you assigned to the Charmed Ones?"
Cleaner- "About three years a go. The witches were trusted to take care of their own messes up until exposure led to the death of Prue Halliwell. That is when we were assigned, to make sure nothing as bad happened again."They even mention Prue's death in the damn episode But as you say, they were forgotten about after anyway. Yeah, just one line like that would've been all that it took to clear up that inconsistency. Kern clearly just didn't care. |
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