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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2015 11:33:17 GMT -5
There is my aforementioned Rex and Hannah Chronicles story, World Of Darkness. In the parallel world, both Prue and Patty Halliwell are still alive (the Halliwell sisters never became the Charmed Ones here, that is until Rex and Hannah helped them discover their legacy).
I'm sure there must be other parallel world Charmed stories out there.
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Post by sol on Oct 21, 2015 11:56:02 GMT -5
Alternate history, parallel worlds, literature and cinema have often dealt with this theme, I loved What Mad Universe of Frederick Brown and The Gods Themselves of Isaac Asimov and I loved the way JJ Abrams has started a new series of Star Trek, neither reboot nor prequel, and, speaking of series, I loved Fringe As I wrote, even many scientists believe, based on nonconformity gravity and mathematical anomalies, that parallel worlds could exist I am unsure if Morality Bites'ld be a Prime One Reality but I'm sure that Chris altered time when Leo found out who was trying to kill Wyatt, giving place to a new chain of events No, that didn't set up a new chain of events because Wyatt still came back as Evil Wyatt in "Imaginary Fiends" - Chris did nothing to save Wyatt in S6, because it wasn't Gideon who did it - it was Vicus. What happened in "It's a Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad World" would've happened anyway, just someone else would've saved Wyatt, just like Paige would have still been saved in "Oh, My Goddess!" even if Chris didn't show up. Nothing Chris did really changed anything except him stuck in an everlasting time loop. That's how horribly the end of S5 along with S6 and S7 were thought out... Thank God fanfics did it better. |
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Post by sol on Oct 21, 2015 12:12:58 GMT -5
A timeline change when there is a change from the original line, this means that someone has to go back and make the change
In Imaginary Friend Wyatt turns evil and Leo solves the situation in the same timeline
I believe it was Gideon's fault I liked in Witch War that line:
Piper: Statistics?
Phoebe: Yes. Did you know that fifty percent of violent crimes are perpetrated by someone the victim knew. So don't you see? Whoever turns Wyatt evil might actually be someone we know or even care about.
Gideon: A mortal? Impossible.
Phoebe: Really? Because the crime reporter at the newspaper said that it's usually someone you least expect.
Piper: Alright, now you're making me nervous.
Gideon: Phoebe. (He slams a book shut.) This theory might make some sense in the lives of normal people but you aren't normal people. There's an entire underworld of demons out there who want you dead and today is no exception, which brings me back to the witch killer.
We often forget how much a childhood trauma might influence the growth of a child, we always remain speechless when a teenager grabs a gun and goes around shooting
Gideon kidnaps and tries to kill the child entrusted to his care, the child flees and orbs in the Underworld without knowing where to go, abandoned by parents and aunts
When Wyatt, teenager, loses his mother and aunts,the teenager with the gun effect kicks off
The human wickedness is more convincing than the usual demon
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2015 17:36:19 GMT -5
What we have in the case of Wyatt is not a parallel universe, but a multiple future.
Many a Science Fiction and Fantasy show/movie does this. The premise is that the future is not written in stone, and that there is, in fact, more than one future. The actions taken now determine which future becomes the "real" one.
In the case of Wyatt, we had two futures, the Good Wyatt and Bad Wyatt one. The Chris that appeared in Season Six came from the Bad Wyatt one (and we saw that future in Chris Crossed). However, the defeat of Gideon wiped the Bad Wyatt future out, it never happened. That's why Season Six Chris vanished, the future he came from no longer existed, so he no longer existed.
A new Bad Wyatt future came into existence in Imaginary Friend. However, this was a different Bad Wyatt future than the Season Six one. However, that Bad Wyatt future was wiped out by the end of the episode.
The Good Wyatt future is the one that came to pass.
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Post by adzpower on Oct 21, 2015 17:54:38 GMT -5
I never understood the whole Wyatt turning evil thing, so Gideon chased him around the underworld for a few months? HOW WOULD HE REMEMBER?! Isn't he like 1 or 2 at this point?
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Oct 21, 2015 20:00:42 GMT -5
I never understood the whole Wyatt turning evil thing, so Gideon chased him around the underworld for a few months? HOW WOULD HE REMEMBER?! Isn't he like 1 or 2 at this point? For a very simple reason. If you rewatch the episode you will see that Gideon never chased Wyatt around the underworld because Wyatt was never in the underworld during that time period, either as a child or an adult. That was all an illusion of Barbas' - his way of, using Leo's worst fears against him, which set him up to go completely totally against his own nature and murder Gideon for a version of Chris that wasn't even his own son, but the son of a totally different Piper and Leo - Leo's son was being born at that moment - they're *versions* of the same person, but *not* the same person because Leo's son would have a totally different life than the other one. Yes, as proven by that conversation, what Gideon wanted *could've* turned Wyatt, but more likely had Gideon had his way, Wyatt would've been killed before he reached the age of five. So, no, Gideon was *not* the reason why Wyatt turned evil - it was Vicus and the teddy-bear all along. The proof is the fact that when Wyatt came back evil, he looked *exactly* like he did in Chris' original present for the very simple reason that he *was* the same Wyatt from Chris' original present - if Chris had changed something, Wyatt might have turned evil, but he wouldn't look exactly like that. So, no, Chris did *nothing* to prevent Wyatt from turning evil. I don't even believe him when he says his mom died when he was 14 (it's too obvious from "ChrisCrossed" that al three Charmed Ones were vanquished together - the same reason why you know something would've happened to save Paige even if Chris never showed up and Leo never would've had to murder Gideon were it not for Chris) or that his father wasn't around After all *he's* the reason Leo became an Elder, not the Elders themselves. And Leo was the most unElderly Elder imaginable, so I believe the only reason he ever became one is Chris - he was never one in Chris' original present. That's how badly Kern screwed up Chris' character, just like the way he screwed up Piper and Phoebe and Leo and Cole and Darryl and Grams and Patty and.... But I'm glad. The best fanfics are ones that show how Chris should've been written and how he could've/should've saved Wyatt, like Scifi's series and Kalvana's "Future Consequences" both among my all-time favorite stories - Charmed or not Charmed. Had Kern treated Wyatt and Chris the way these two extremely-talented authors did, I never would've gotten to read those stories and be able to pretend that Chris really did do something to save Wyatt from turning evil. Because Kern's Chris never did. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2015 23:36:28 GMT -5
Oh no you don't, Es. You are NOT going to turn this thread into another anti-Chris tirade, you have more than enough of those here, thank you. To get this thread back on track... I've always liked the idea of parallel universes. Mind you, I've been a Science Fiction fan since the mid-1970's (probably longer than most of the posters here have been alive). Here are some good examples. The Classic Trek episode, Mirror, Mirror. This is the episode that introduced the Mirror Universe (where Spock had the beard). This universe would be revisited in several episodes of Deep Space Nine and a two part story on Enterprise. The 1971 Doctor Who story, Inferno. There was the 1990's series, Sliders, which used this concept. The best of Sliders is the first two seasons, before Executive Meddling on the part of Fox derailed it in Season Three. These are all good examples of using the concept of parallel universes. |
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Post by sol on Oct 22, 2015 3:26:56 GMT -5
Tim, my mom brought me up with Star Trek! She thought it was very educational, we watched the episodes together,I knew the Prime Directive before our Constitution!
I belive that Chris went from the original timeline and that the new reality - season 7 and 8- was born when Leo and the sisters have realized Gideon's betrayal
So in the original reality, Leo and the sisters have never understood who had kidnapped Wyatt, Leo didn't flip out, the Avatars didn't take advantage of their loss,the Charmed One died in 2018, Wyatt grew into hungry for power and in this reality Chris, stabbed by Gideon, came back
Reality 2 is the timeline of season 7 and 8
This in the matter of a timeline in which someone comes back from the future to change it
But we can also think of parallel worlds generated by crucial decision
Decision 1. Phoebe marries Cole with all the known result:the pregnancy, the decision to stay at his side, the change of mind, the vanquish
Decision 2 Phoebe doesn't marry Cole, the Charmed One discover that he has become the Source and vanquish him, Cole's fate is still the same but not that of Phobe, she isn't married with Coop, she is alone
The Three Faces Of Phoebe:
Old Phoebe: Because if I were to say something that could change the future, other lives could be at stake too, not just ours.
Phoebe: Yeah, well, maybe you're supposed to change the future. Maybe that's why you were sent here. If there is one belief that you and I still have in common, it's that magic happens for a reason. Isn't it possible that you've been given a second chance?
Old Phoebe: To do what?
Phoebe: To keep me from turning into a bitter old lady like you
Old Phoebe: I never married you, Cole, I called it off. And once I found out you were the Source, my sisters and I had to vanquish you.
Cole: Why are you telling me this?
Old Phoebe: Because I've spent most of my life wondering what would happen if we had married. It could have been different for both of us.
So in the universe of Decision 2, Phobe never married Cole but also never married Coop
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Post by Esmeralda on Oct 22, 2015 6:15:54 GMT -5
On that note I get confused by the rules of dark future with Chris. Going back in time and changing the events that killed the charmed ones. Its like if you can change the past and Chris can undo his future, whats stopping a future Piper going into the past and stopping the events that lead to Prue's death. She could basically change the events, and everything after All Hell Breaks Loose is gone. If Future Chris can do it, then any of the charmed ones can change fate. I made a thread a while back saying the exact same thing. The show stressed that the past was set in stone more than once yet they base an entire arc around someone from the future changing the past. But that's not accurate because the sisters went back and changed time twice - "That Seventies Episode" and "All Halliwell's Eve". The major difference - they were done under the auspices of the Elders who could see the big picture. Hence the reason why I'm positive Chris did nothing to truly change the timeline (it just eddied back) - the same way that had Piper used a spell to go back in time and save Prue, she still would've ended up dying - Death does not give up on a victim. The same thing would've/should've happened to Piper in "Forever Charmed" one of many reasons why I believe that "Forever Crap", I mean "Forever Piper" is just her delusion as she dies after the explosion. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2015 7:04:12 GMT -5
I made a thread a while back saying the exact same thing. The show stressed that the past was set in stone more than once yet they base an entire arc around someone from the future changing the past. But that's not accurate because the sisters went back and changed time twice - "That Seventies Episode" and "All Halliwell's Eve". The major difference - they were done under the auspices of the Elders who could see the big picture. Hence the reason why I'm positive Chris did nothing to truly change the timeline (it just eddied back) - the same way that had Piper used a spell to go back in time and save Prue, she still would've ended up dying - Death does not give up on a victim. The same thing would've/should've happened to Piper in "Forever Charmed" one of many reasons why I believe that "Forever Crap", I mean "Forever Piper" is just her delusion as she dies after the explosion. But I always assumed the difference between what the sisters did vs what Chris did was they were always meant to be there in the past. Meaning the way it originally happened was the way it was always supposed happen i.e "All Halliwell's Eve" never took place without the sisters there. I hope that makes sense. |
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Post by Esmeralda on Oct 22, 2015 8:14:20 GMT -5
But that's not accurate because the sisters went back and changed time twice - "That Seventies Episode" and "All Halliwell's Eve". The major difference - they were done under the auspices of the Elders who could see the big picture. Hence the reason why I'm positive Chris did nothing to truly change the timeline (it just eddied back) - the same way that had Piper used a spell to go back in time and save Prue, she still would've ended up dying - Death does not give up on a victim. The same thing would've/should've happened to Piper in "Forever Charmed" one of many reasons why I believe that "Forever Crap", I mean "Forever Piper" is just her delusion as she dies after the explosion. But I always assumed the difference between what the sisters did vs what Chris did was they were always meant to be there in the past. Meaning the way it originally happened was the way it was always supposed happen i.e "All Halliwell's Eve" never took place without the sisters there. I hope that makes sense. *nods* That makes plenty of sense, the same reason why Chris going back or Piper going back in “Forever Charmed” doesn’t. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2015 11:10:52 GMT -5
There is not one shred of evidence that the Elders were in any way involved with the events of That 70's Episode, Es.
In All Halliwell's Eve, yes, the Elders did send the sisters back in time. However, in That 70's Episode, it was the sisters that cast the spell that sent them into the past.
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Post by sol on Oct 23, 2015 4:22:54 GMT -5
There is not one shred of evidence that the Elders were in any way involved with the events of That 70's Episode, Es. In All Halliwell's Eve, yes, the Elders did send the sisters back in time. However, in That 70's Episode, it was the sisters that cast the spell that sent them into the past. Are we sure that the Elders are always able to see the big picture? I believe that they fumbled, sometimes without seeing farther than their nose either, as in the Avatar thing or the Jenkis sisters In All Halliwell's Eve, they answered to Eve and her coven's prayers, they not even know the Triad's existence ! In my opinion, in Charmed are known three different timelines: Morality Bites timeline, the new timeline provoked by Chri's return from the future - from It's a Bad Bad World to Kill Bill Vol II- Baracca and old Phoebe's timeline from A Witch In Time in which Cole was the Sourse and didn't marry Phoebe And Forever Charmed hash, of course! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2015 11:27:00 GMT -5
It's possible that the Bad Wyatt future came into existence when he was born. Don't forget, Wyatt was supposed to be Melinda, but something happened to change that. Since the show never bothered to explain, I decided to present my own theory.
The following is an excerpt from my Rex and Hannah Chronicles story, Future Imperfect:
“These rules are stupid.” Chris said. “After all, I, or another version of me, came back to make sure Wyatt didn’t become evil.”
“Yes, but that’s a rare exception. In that instance, the future was supposed to be changed.” Kalu said.
“Wait, I don’t understand.” Hannah said. “How can the future ‘supposed to be changed’, as you put it, Kalu?”
“Okay, I suppose you all should know the truth.” Kalu said. “When Piper Halliwell became pregnant for the first time, she was supposed to give birth to a daughter. However, something went wrong.”
“Thanks a lot.” Wyatt said.
“Wyatt, let her finish.” Rex said, putting a hand on the young man’s shoulder.
“Please, I meant no offense.” Kalu said. “It’s just that until you came along, all the Halliwell magic was passed down through the generations by women, not men. However, your unexpected birth created an anomaly, a ripple the fabric of the space/time continuum. That led to the creation of a possible future, where you were evil and conquered the world.”
“But that never happened.” Wyatt said.
“Because your brother, the version of him from that future, travelled back in time and helped make sure you became good. When that happened, the time anomaly was neutralized and the future you know came to pass.” Kalu explained. “The damage to time that your birth accidentally created was thus fixed.”
Yeah, it's not canon, but it's probably the closest anyone has come to explain the whole thing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2015 9:23:11 GMT -5
There is not one shred of evidence that the Elders were in any way involved with the events of That 70's Episode, Es. In All Halliwell's Eve, yes, the Elders did send the sisters back in time. However, in That 70's Episode, it was the sisters that cast the spell that sent them into the past. In my opinion, in Charmed are known three different timelines: Morality Bites timeline, the new timeline provoked by Chri's return from the future - from It's a Bad Bad World to Kill Bill Vol II- Baracca and old Phoebe's timeline from A Witch In Time in which Cole was the Sourse and didn't marry Phoebe And Forever Charmed hash, of course! Why do you think Bacarra and old Phoebe are from the same timeline? Didn't Bacarra's timeline disappear as soon Piper got her past self to make Phoebe go the other way instead of saving her new beau's life over and over again? I agree that the old Phoebe who didn't marry Cole is an alternate timeline still in existence alongside the main one. But I think Bacarra's is a separate one entirely. Unless I'm missing/forgetting something. I haven't re-watched those episodes in a long time. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2015 9:24:17 GMT -5
It's possible that the Bad Wyatt future came into existence when he was born. Don't forget, Wyatt was supposed to be Melinda, but something happened to change that. Charmed fans theorize that the future timeline in which Piper had Melinda was just an illusion made by the elders to teach the Charmed Ones a lesson about personal gain. Tho that theory contradicts what was said in-show by Piper who referenced that future timeline when she was upset because Prue was alive and well in 2009. They also assumed Wyatt was a girl because of their visit to that future. The multiverse is kind of disturbing now that I think about it. Prue was alive in one but dead in two others. Paige was dead in one but alive in another. Plus old Phoebe was killed because her past self from an alternate timeline needed her help in deciding on whether she should marry Cole. *insert confused emoji* And technically in the original timeline(before it was reset) of "All Hell's Breaks Loose", Piper & Prue were both shot & killed while the Source planned to turn his back on Phoebe and have her killed, which means there would've been a timeline with all of the Charmed Ones dead. |
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Post by Esmeralda on Oct 25, 2015 9:36:34 GMT -5
Charmed fans theorize that the future timeline in which Piper had Melinda was just an illusion made by the elders to teach the Charmed Ones a lesson about personal gain. Tho that theory contradicts what was said in-show by Piper who referenced that future timeline when she was upset because Prue was alive and well in 2009. They also assumed Wyatt was a girl because of their visit to that future. Actually it doesn't contradict that because the sisters never figured out that the Morality Bites timeline was just an illusion and since Leo didn't know, he wouldn't tell them. I usually look at what happens in "All Hell Broke Loose" as a rewind of time rather than creating a different timeline, so the one where Piper dies wouldn't continue the way the other alternate timelines do. That appeared to be Tempus' power. Along the same lines, if you want to look at it that way, the ORIGINAL original timeline would only include Prue and Piper since Rodriguez kills Phoebe the first time around in "Deja vu All Over Again." So if indeed *that's* the ORIGINAL original timeline (which as I said, I don't think it is, but this is just having fun playing "What if?") does that mean that Prue and Piper met Paige at the beginning of Season Two??? And Andy is still alive and Leo probably still gone? Don't I wish! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2015 9:37:19 GMT -5
i like to joke that the episode in which the Source returns and Paige asks Piper & Phoebe "how was he vanquished the last time" was an alternate timeline.
I know we shouldn't use the multiverse as an excuse for bad writers but it's kinda fun. Like when Grams originally had a brother then all of sudden he doesn't exist and the Warren line is all female.
She had a brother the same way the Charmed Ones didn't have a fourth sister until it was necessary to help the story move forward after the departure of a main cast member. Grams brother Gordon(was that his name?) exist in an alternate timeline. And since we know men can be witches too, he's not powerless like what was previously hinted at in the first few seasons.
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Post by Esmeralda on Oct 25, 2015 9:55:52 GMT -5
i like to joke that the episode in which the Source returns and Paige asks Piper & Phoebe "how was he vanquished the last time" was an alternate timeline. I know we shouldn't use the multiverse as an excuse for bad writers but it's kinda fun. Like when Grams originally had a brother then all of sudden he doesn't exist and the Warren line is all female. She had a brother the same way the Charmed Ones didn't have a fourth sister until it was necessary to help the story move forward after the departure of a main cast member. Grams brother Gordon(was that his name?) exist in an alternate timeline. And since we know men can be witches too, he's not powerless like what was previously hinted at in the first few seasons. You're absolutely right. It's much more fun to try to come up with a reason why the continuity errors do make sense rather than constantly gripe about them - besides keeping the conversation going, since it's fun to come up with ideas as to what might have happened to cause such things. The one where Grams suddenly doesn't have a brother and all Halliwells keep their maiden name must be the one where Melinda Warren's name is actually Melinda Halliwell, all three 20's cousins have the last name of Halliwell so that Grams would've been born a Halliwell AND - the biggest change of all - as shown in the credits of "Thank you for Not Morphing" Victor Halliwell (so Patty didn't become a Halliwell until she married Victor) became Victor Bennett... I find myself wishing the former had been true so Piper would've become Piper Wyatt when she got married and Chris would've been Christopher Wyatt - and Wyatt would've been Melinda Wyatt as he should've been, just like in the Morality Bites future which would've been real at one time...well, as real as the future in "Back to the Future"...  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2015 10:18:19 GMT -5
i like to joke that the episode in which the Source returns and Paige asks Piper & Phoebe "how was he vanquished the last time" was an alternate timeline. I know we shouldn't use the multiverse as an excuse for bad writers but it's kinda fun. Like when Grams originally had a brother then all of sudden he doesn't exist and the Warren line is all female. She had a brother the same way the Charmed Ones didn't have a fourth sister until it was necessary to help the story move forward after the departure of a main cast member. Grams brother Gordon(was that his name?) exist in an alternate timeline. And since we know men can be witches too, he's not powerless like what was previously hinted at in the first few seasons. Wyatt would've been Melinda Wyatt as he should've been Would Melinda have been twice blessed? |
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