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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2015 11:22:43 GMT -5
The key word here is "theorize". A theory I do not buy into. What we saw in Mortality Bite was a possible future, which was wiped out when the sisters learned their lesson about not punishing the guilty (a lesson they would forget in the later seasons).
There could be countless universes, each a little different from the others. Heck, there could be one where Rex and Hannah succeeded in Wicca Envy and now rule that version of Earth.
As the Third Doctor (Jon Pertwee) said in the Classic Doctor Who story Inferno: "An infinite number of universes, an infinite number of choices. Therefore free will is not an illusion."
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Oct 25, 2015 15:54:29 GMT -5
Wyatt would've been Melinda Wyatt as he should've been Would Melinda have been twice blessed? We didn't see anything that said that she was in the Morality Bites timeline, so I'd say no. I think that's strictly part of the alternate-universe timeline. The only way she and Chris would be twice blessed is that they have a whitelighter for a father and a Charmed One for a mother. But time wouldn't stop when they were born. Hopefully the only powers they had were a single Warren one...or better, since the powers were supposed to culminate (end) with the Charmed Ones, no powers at all, only magic like spells and potions. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2015 17:35:36 GMT -5
The following excerpt comes from my Rex and Hannah Chronicles Story, World Of Darkness. To set the scene up, Rex and Hannah have just met the parallel universe's version of Paige Matthews.
Astonishment then came to Hannah’s face at the woman sitting in the desk in front of them. The woman was none other than Paige Matthews. "Paige, thank God!" Hannah said with relief in her voice: "What the hell is..."
"Silence!" Paige shouted: "You will address me by my proper rank!"
"Rank? Look, Paige, a joke’s a joke, but..."
"I am Section Leader Matthews to you." Paige said. Behind Rex and Hannah, the black uniformed men raised their rifles menacingly.
"Sorry, Section Leader, but I think I may know what is happening here." Rex said suddenly: "My name is Rex Buckland, and this is Hannah Webster."
"Nice to meet you." Paige replied sarcastically: "Perhaps now you can tell me where you came from? You have no micro-chips, so neither of you are Citizens of the Regime, or of our ally states. So, where do you come from?"
"Well, this may be hard for you to believe, Section Leader." Rex said.
"Try me."
"Very well, Hannah and I actually come from San Francisco, just not your San Francisco."
"And just where is "your" San Francisco?" Paige asked, a cruel smile coming across her face.
"It’s in a parallel space/time continuum." Rex replied.
"A what!?"
"Hannah and I come from another space/time continuum, one that runs parallel to this one."
"Surely you can do better than that." Paige said dismissively: "It is more likely that you came from an enemy country. The Australian Free State comes to mind here, they’ve been a thorn in our sides for decades now. Did they send you?"
"Listen, just listen." Rex said: "Your name is Paige Matthews, right?"
"I am Section Leader Paige Matthews, yes."
"And your adoptive parents died in a car crash in 1994."
"How do you know that?" Paige asked: "Have you been compiling a dossier on me?"
"No, in the world we come from, there is also a Paige Matthews." Hannah said: "And her adoptive parents died that way."
"Obviously the same thing happened here." Rex said: "So many similarities, yet so many differences."
"Enough of this nonsense!" Paige said.
"One more thing, what about your real family?" Rex asked.
"My real family were traitors to the Regime." Paige said: "They got what they deserved."
"You mean..." Hannah began.
"Executed! All of them." Paige said: "It was just a pity I was too young to watch it. Now, for the last time, who sent you two here!?"
"We’ve told you the truth." Rex said: "It’s not our fault you’re too narrow minded to accept it."
"Very well, perhaps some time in a one of our cells will give you two time to consider if you want to co-operate." Paige said: "Lock them up!"
Soon after, Rex and Hannah found themselves in a jail cell. "The comforts of this establishment overwhelm me!" Rex said sarcastically to the departing guards.
"Rex, what is going on? Where ARE we?" Hannah asked: "What was all that talk of parallel continuum worlds?"
"Well, Hannah, it was the Time Key that did this." Rex replied: "Normally it moves us backward or forward in time. However, this time it malfunctioned and slipped us sideways in time instead, into an adjacent continuum. A parallel universe, if you will."
"I think I get it." Hannah said: "It’s like that episode of Star Trek, where Spock had a beard."
"Yes, that’s it exactly, Hannah. We’re now in a world that is the same, yet different from the one we know. Obviously history unfolded very different here. The United States is a totalitarian dictatorship, if it’s even called that in this world."
"And Paige..."
"Is not the Paige we know, Hannah, but her counterpart of this world.
This story was written in 2011. I always meant to go back to that parallel universe and see how things were going, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.
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Post by sol on Oct 26, 2015 5:35:33 GMT -5
In my opinion, in Charmed are known three different timelines: Morality Bites timeline, the new timeline provoked by Chri's return from the future - from It's a Bad Bad World to Kill Bill Vol II- Baracca and old Phoebe's timeline from A Witch In Time in which Cole was the Sourse and didn't marry Phoebe And Forever Charmed hash, of course! Why do you think Bacarra and old Phoebe are from the same timeline? Didn't Bacarra's timeline disappear as soon Piper got her past self to make Phoebe go the other way instead of saving her new beau's life over and over again? I agree that the old Phoebe who didn't marry Cole is an alternate timeline still in existence alongside the main one. But I think Bacarra's is a separate one entirely. Unless I'm missing/forgetting something. I haven't re-watched those episodes in a long time. Sorry if I step back but I spent the weekend in my Salamanca and I didn't read it It wasn't Bacarra's timeline to disappear but Piper's timeline, that frightful day in which she lost her sisters Bacarra didn't have to come back because Cole didn't have to ask him so their timeline went one peacefully |
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Post by sol on Oct 26, 2015 5:37:55 GMT -5
Would Melinda have been twice blessed? We didn't see anything that said that she was in the Morality Bites timeline, so I'd say no. I think that's strictly part of the alternate-universe timeline. The only way she and Chris would be twice blessed is that they have a whitelighter for a father and a Charmed One for a mother. But time wouldn't stop when they were born. Hopefully the only powers they had were a single Warren one...or better, since the powers were supposed to culminate (end) with the Charmed Ones, no powers at all, only magic like spells and potions. Twicw Blessed was the child born in that particular day, blessed by magic not by a father and a mother |
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Post by sol on Oct 26, 2015 5:46:20 GMT -5
It's possible that the Bad Wyatt future came into existence when he was born. Don't forget, Wyatt was supposed to be Melinda, but something happened to change that. Charmed fans theorize that the future timeline in which Piper had Melinda was just an illusion made by the elders to teach the Charmed Ones a lesson about personal gain. Tho that theory contradicts what was said in-show by Piper who referenced that future timeline when she was upset because Prue was alive and well in 2009. They also assumed Wyatt was a girl because of their visit to that future. The multiverse is kind of disturbing now that I think about it. Prue was alive in one but dead in two others. Paige was dead in one but alive in another. Plus old Phoebe was killed because her past self from an alternate timeline needed her help in deciding on whether she should marry Cole. *insert confused emoji* And technically in the original timeline(before it was reset) of "All Hell's Breaks Loose", Piper & Prue were both shot & killed while the Source planned to turn his back on Phoebe and have her killed, which means there would've been a timeline with all of the Charmed Ones dead. I believe that only the Avatars had the power to create an alternative reality, the Elders never made an impression of being so powerful And I believe that it's one thing if the lord of the time, Tempus, rewinds the time, but it's different if someone changes an event: this leads to theiception of a new chain of events, or the biforcation of two different timeline |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Oct 26, 2015 8:27:59 GMT -5
We didn't see anything that said that she was in the Morality Bites timeline, so I'd say no. I think that's strictly part of the alternate-universe timeline. The only way she and Chris would be twice blessed is that they have a whitelighter for a father and a Charmed One for a mother. But time wouldn't stop when they were born. Hopefully the only powers they had were a single Warren one...or better, since the powers were supposed to culminate (end) with the Charmed Ones, no powers at all, only magic like spells and potions. Twice Blessed was the child born in that particular day, blessed by magic not by a father and a mother If you wish to believe that like a lot of fans do, that’s fine. But there’s nothing in the prophecy that’ says that Wyatt will be the only twice-blessed child or that the day is anything special. All Warrens were born blessed by magic no matter what day they were born; Wyatt is no different. And the prophecy says “a” twice-blessed child will be born, not “the” Twice-blessed. Wyatt was the first and as always in Charmed, the oldest is the strongest in magic. But Chris and Prudence Melinda are just as twice-blessed as he because they have a whitelighter for a father and a Charmed One for a mother. |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Oct 26, 2015 8:32:12 GMT -5
Charmed fans theorize that the future timeline in which Piper had Melinda was just an illusion made by the elders to teach the Charmed Ones a lesson about personal gain. Tho that theory contradicts what was said in-show by Piper who referenced that future timeline when she was upset because Prue was alive and well in 2009. They also assumed Wyatt was a girl because of their visit to that future. The multiverse is kind of disturbing now that I think about it. Prue was alive in one but dead in two others. Paige was dead in one but alive in another. Plus old Phoebe was killed because her past self from an alternate timeline needed her help in deciding on whether she should marry Cole. *insert confused emoji* And technically in the original timeline(before it was reset) of "All Hell's Breaks Loose", Piper & Prue were both shot & killed while the Source planned to turn his back on Phoebe and have her killed, which means there would've been a timeline with all of the Charmed Ones dead. I believe that only the Avatars had the power to create an alternative reality, the Elders never made an impression of being so powerful. Just because we never saw them do it at any other times doesn't mean they couldn't or didn't. Besides, you're talking about the Brad Kern's Elders from S3-8. I'm talking about the Connie Burge's THEM of- S1-2, otherwise known as the Founders and who were the ones who sent the Charmed Ones to an alternate reality. THEY were much more powerful than the all-too-human Elders created by Brad Kern in Season 3 - the first time they were called that. I definitely think THEY could've created an alternate reality. Had the Avatars popped up during the original Charmed, I doubt if they would've been as powerful as THEM. I also don't think Leo would've had to go to the Source to have Tempus turn back time if THEY were still in charge. The only one as powerful as THEY was the Source, just like no way the Jenknises would've been more powerful than the Halliwells had Brad Kern not twisted the mythology. |
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Post by sol on Oct 26, 2015 11:52:02 GMT -5
As I keep repeating, I care nothing for Saint Burge or Bad Kern, I care for Charmed and the Elders never looked like lively
Additionally, the Elders are only whitelighters's bosses, nothing more
Secrets and Guys
Leo: They’re a group of elder white lighters. They’re known as the founders
As bosses, they had access to more information, not many I'ld say, see Apocalypse Not as example, and to a power obtained after the advancement
If they had created the reality of Morality Bites to give a lesson, I was wondering what kind of sick and twisted mind the elders'ld have: being supernatural doesn't require a degree in pedagogy or psychology but at least a little bit of humanity
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2015 12:37:54 GMT -5
In one of my stories, Hannah was accidentally transported back to the Titanic on the day it sank. The idea I go with is that a fixed historical event can't be changed, at least not without serious consequences to space/time. However, you can change minor things. In this example, Hannah could not stop the sinking of the Titanic, that's a fixed event. However, she could save the five children that she does in the story. At the end of the story (The Tides Of Time, in case anyone is curious), Hannah meets the aged daughter of one of those five children. The scene in question: “Rex, what is this all about?” Hannah asked as she and Rex arrived at an apartment of a woman Rex had gotten in contact with.
“You’ll see.” Rex replied and knocked on the door.
“Yes?” said a voice from the other side.
“It’s me, Rex Buckland, the one you spoke to on the phone.”
“Oh yes, come in.” The door opened and Rex and Hannah found themselves facing a very old woman: “I’m delighted to meet you.”
“Rex, what is going on?” Hannah asked as she and Rex followed the old woman into the apartment.
“Hannah, this is Hannah Macmillan.” Rex said, gesturing to the old woman: “However, he maiden name was Kerensky.”
“Kerensky?” Hannah said: “As in Sergei Kerensky?”
“Yes, he was my father.” Hannah M. said: “He settled here in New York, and met and married my mother in 1925. I was born a year later.”
“And your name is Hannah? Like mine?”
“My father named me after a kind woman who saved his, and the lives of his siblings, on the Titanic, when it sank in 1912. He never forgot her kindness and wanted to honour her, naming me Hannah did so.” Hannah M. looked at Hannah: “You know, you greatly resemble her, or at least my father’s description of her.”
“Uh, yeah, I’m a distant relative of hers.” Hannah said: “I was named after her as well.”
“Well, it’s a pleasure to meet you.” Hannah M. said: “Would you two like some tea?”
“I’d love some.” Rex said.
“Me too.” Hannah added.
“Right.” Hannah M. said and excused herself to make the tea.
“She was named after me.” Hannah said, once Hannah M. was out of earshot.
“Yes, she was.” Rex said: “I’ve noticed how down you’ve been since we got back from 1912, and I wanted to show you that you did make a difference, Hannah. This women is proof of that, not to mention her children, their children, and her ten great-grandchildren. Not to mention the families her siblings had. They all exist, Hannah, because of you saving those children on the Titanic that night in 1912.”
“But... But, doesn’t that mean I changed something?”
“Not that I have been able to determine. The time line seems to be secure.” Rex said: “I think it’s possible that you were always meant to travel back in time to the Titanic and save the Kerensky children. It was always part of history. Or perhaps the sinking itself was a fixed event, and could not be altered, but slight changes, such as saving the Kerensky children, are allowed. There is really no way to tell for sure.”
“No, I guess there isn’t.”
“I hope this makes you feel better, Hannah.” Rex said softly.
“It does.” Hannah said, smiling: “As you said, I did make a difference by saving those children. That is good enough for me.”
“Here is the tea.” Hannah M. said as she returned from the kitchen.
“Good.” Hannah said to the old woman: “We have much to talk about...”Now, the question is, did Hannah always go back and save those five children or was this an event she changed (meaning that in the original time line, they all died). I leave it up to the reader to decide which theory is the correct one.
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Post by Chrisaholic on Oct 30, 2015 13:15:57 GMT -5
Great, and now I have a headache. Time travel is so complicated and new timelines as well. Just remember the triology Back to the Future. The same thing happened there and I still get a headache by watching it.  |
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Post by erikamarie on Oct 30, 2015 14:03:49 GMT -5
Time travel are fascinating and can create complex paradoxes
Summarizing
In Morality Bites, somehow the sisters have taken a different path, creating a second reality
In The Three Face of Phoebe, Phoebe maps a new future out by choosing to marry Cole
In It's a Bad Bad Bad World, Leo and Chris make another timeline discovering the guilt of Gideon's guilt
I don't count the alternative realities created by the Avatars, artificial realities
I don't count Forever Charmed also because the timeline in which Phoebe and Paige die is erased before it can exist
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 14:28:26 GMT -5
Temporal mechanics give me a headache: Captain Kathryn Janeway of the U.S.S. Voyager.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 15:42:06 GMT -5
Is it me, or is Tim mostly talking to himself in this thread? He's been posting a lot of interesting stuff, yet not a single person has acknowledged any of it.  |
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Post by sol on Oct 30, 2015 16:16:09 GMT -5
Twice Blessed was the child born in that particular day, blessed by magic not by a father and a mother If you wish to believe that like a lot of fans do, that’s fine. But there’s nothing in the prophecy that’ says that Wyatt will be the only twice-blessed child or that the day is anything special. All Warrens were born blessed by magic no matter what day they were born; Wyatt is no different. And the prophecy says “a” twice-blessed child will be born, not “the” Twice-blessed. Wyatt was the first and as always in Charmed, the oldest is the strongest in magic. But Chris and Prudence Melinda are just as twice-blessed as he because they have a whitelighter for a father and a Charmed One for a mother. Esmeralda, if you belive that a baby 'ld be twice blessed only because he or she has a whitelighter for a father and a Charmed One for a mother, so Paige too was a twice blessed child and maybe every being who has two magical parents, as Phoebe's girls or Richard Montana, son of two witches or Phoebe's unborn baby Maybe you don't remember well The Day The Magic Died but if you look at the script it's very clear: Cronyn: It's much more than that. Two centuries ago when I became an apprentice, I devoted my life to sorcery and the black arts. And do you know why? Stanley: No, sir. Cronyn: In the hope that an ancient prophecy, which my mentor kept hidden, would one day come to pass. Stanley: Has it? Cronyn: Well, look up. The signs are converging. The future of all magic hangs in the balance. And only I know it. Merrill: Centuries ago, I unearthed a quatrain from the tomb of a wise apothecary. "When three planets burn as one over a sky of dancing light, and magic will rest for a holy day to welcome a twice blessed child." Paige: Those are the signs that we saw. The Aurora Borealis, the planetary alignment, the wiccan Sabbath. Prue Piper Phoebe and Paige are the result of a prophecy, the birth of three sisters who could hook into the Power of Three, Warren women have achieved their purpose The birth of Wyatt is linked to a different prophecy, nobody says it has to be the son of two magical creatures, indeed the prophecy says nothing, it's Crone to talk about the extraordinary power of Wyatt |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 19:10:28 GMT -5
Tell me about it. I'm starting to feel like the Invisible Man around here.
What does any of this have to do with multiverses?
Yeah, okay, my posts involve my Rex and Hannah Chronicles, however, at least they touch upon the topic of this thread.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Oct 30, 2015 19:43:04 GMT -5
If you wish to believe that like a lot of fans do, that’s fine. But there’s nothing in the prophecy that’ says that Wyatt will be the only twice-blessed child or that the day is anything special. All Warrens were born blessed by magic no matter what day they were born; Wyatt is no different. And the prophecy says “a” twice-blessed child will be born, not “the” Twice-blessed. Wyatt was the first and as always in Charmed, the oldest is the strongest in magic. But Chris and Prudence Melinda are just as twice-blessed as he because they have a whitelighter for a father and a Charmed One for a mother. Esmeralda, if you belive that a baby 'ld be twice blessed only because he or she has a whitelighter for a father and a Charmed One for a mother, so Paige too was a twice blessed child and maybe every being who has two magical parents, as Phoebe's girls or Richard Montana, son of two witches or Phoebe's unborn baby Maybe you don't remember well The Day The Magic Died but if you look at the script it's very clear: Cronyn: It's much more than that. Two centuries ago when I became an apprentice, I devoted my life to sorcery and the black arts. And do you know why? Stanley: No, sir. Cronyn: In the hope that an ancient prophecy, which my mentor kept hidden, would one day come to pass. Stanley: Has it? Cronyn: Well, look up. The signs are converging. The future of all magic hangs in the balance. And only I know it. Merrill: Centuries ago, I unearthed a quatrain from the tomb of a wise apothecary. "When three planets burn as one over a sky of dancing light, and magic will rest for a holy day to welcome a twice blessed child." Paige: Those are the signs that we saw. The Aurora Borealis, the planetary alignment, the wiccan Sabbath. Prue Piper Phoebe and Paige are the result of a prophecy, the birth of three sisters who could hook into the Power of Three, Warren women have achieved their purpose The birth of Wyatt is linked to a different prophecy, nobody says it has to be the son of two magical creatures, indeed the prophecy says nothing, it's Crone to talk about the extraordinary power of Wyatt. And again I'll insist that you're reading it wrong. First - Paige is *not* twice-blessed. She has a whitelighter for a father and a *witch* for a mother. The mother of the Charmed Ones, yes, but not a Charmed One. The only ones who are twice-blessed are Piper and Leo's three. Second, re-read the sentence in that script that's most important - (bolding mine): Welcome a twice-blessed child. Not the. The signs indeed said when he would be born and indeed welcome the first, the most important, as firsts always are in the Charmedverse- the reason the second set isn't as powerful as the first - they didn't have the first child, Prue, as part of it. But although just like Piper and Phoebe weren't as powerful as Prue, but are still Charmed, and the fact that Phoebe and Paige weren't as powerful as Piper, who then became the oldest and could only control her explosion power and become The Power of One (with no real need for her sisters) after she became the oldest, but Paige and Phoebe are still Charmed, so Wyatt is definitely more powerful than his brother and sister, but that doesn't make them any less twice-blessed. Both prophecies were correct - one did not counteract the other. And I will always believe that it was the sisters agreeing to continue their destiny even after they had fulfilled it that put them in the timeline where that prophecy was part of it, to allow the sisters a new destiny after fulfilling the other one - the what got rid of the idea of the powers culminating with the Charmed Ones. Had they not, none of their kids would have powers, but just have magic. Fans constantly call Wyatt the Twice-Blessed Child, but those words are never used by the Charmed Ones once he's born. That's fanon, not canon. Because he's a twice-blessed child. Just like his brother and sister - he was just the first, hence the reason magic rested. No need for big celebrations once an event has occurred for the first time. It's also what's shown in the comics. Yes, I know the comics aren't canon, but it's what got me thinking and sent me investigating (because I always believed that Wyatt was the Twice-Blessed Child, mainly due to all of the fanfics I'd read) and found out that the comics are right. If even once they called Wyatt the Twice-Blessed Child after he's born, I'd agree with you and disagree with Paul Ruditis. As is, I can't, because they don't. They know that he's only more special than his brother (since his sister is born after the show is finished) because he's the oldest. If you want to believe the fanon that it's due to the day, like most fans do, that's fine. I just happen to believe the canon which says otherwise. |
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Post by sol on Oct 31, 2015 4:03:58 GMT -5
Tell me about it. I'm starting to feel like the Invisible Man around here. What does any of this have to do with multiverses? Yeah, okay, my posts involve my Rex and Hannah Chronicles, however, at least they touch upon the topic of this thread. I was answering to Es, but it's right, we'll carry on the debate on Wyatt trhead It's a date, Esmeralda  |
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Post by sol on Oct 31, 2015 4:08:04 GMT -5
Is it me, or is Tim mostly talking to himself in this thread? He's been posting a lot of interesting stuff, yet not a single person has acknowledged any of it. It's you, in this thread there is an animated debate about different timelines Tim is posted his fanfic, I usually don't read fanfic |
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Post by sol on Oct 31, 2015 4:29:52 GMT -5
Back to the topic: I agree with Erika about the different timnelines but in It's a Bad World there is more that the fork in the road provoked by the discovery of Gideon's betrayal
There is the so-called mirror universe, where characters and places are the exact opposite of their counterparts
We Star Trek fans know very well this kind of universe, we saw it in the Classic serie, in TNG and Deep Space Nine, in Charned was the first time and it was intriguing, Good Barbas was so sugary that I regretted his opposite
And also we'ld look into the anti-time when several alternate realities converge
In TNG this is an event of the finale, All Good Things, a finale that I really love
Could you imagine an episode where the three different timelines met?
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