Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
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Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
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Post by Esmeralda on Apr 26, 2017 2:48:41 GMT -5
I count everything Chris said about the future as a lie, starting with him telling Piper there was no such thing as family in the future - the only thing about his future that I think is true is what the tour guide told us in 'ChrisCrossed', which shows us that he was lying when he said that the Titans killed Paige. And why did he lie about Leo becoming an Elder? Because it was his way of getting Leo out of the way so he could become the sisters' whitelighter. Why he wanted to do that - I think had Holly not become pregnant and if Brian hadn't signed his second contract, it would be to make him the Big Bad while the Twice-Blessed Child remained that good one. That switched in Season Six, after Holly became pregnant, which is what ended up making him seem like such a little liar. Had he ever apologized for his lies, I'd believe what he said afterwards. But he never did, so I still don't trust a word he said. What don't I like about Piper and Leo? Mainly the way Piper treated him - so very obviously just using him and not loving him. A lot of it has to do with how very much I don't like Piper in S3-S4 and S6-8, after loving both of them so much in S1, Part of why I don't hate S5 as much as a lot of fans do - I liked Piper that season, not counting 'Oh, My Goddess!', which I always count as part of my least-favorite season, S6. Had something like this fic happened (and I don't believe anything like this ever did off-screen, but if it had...), I'd feel totally differently. Had something like that happened and if Drew Fuller could've portrayed it as well as the Chris in my imagination does (which I don't think he could've), I'd like both Piper and Chris a whole lot more. But I can't see either S6 Chris or S6 Piper doing anything like this. So they realize they die in the future? I think that Piper would have wanted to know much more information and still would have been pissed but I like this story No, they never find out that they died in the future, just like they never find out in S6. But I'm glad you like the story - me, too. |
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Ruth Marie
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Prue Seasons
"What If...?"
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Post by Ruth Marie on Apr 26, 2017 3:32:43 GMT -5
I still feel cheated out of not knowing more on Chris' future. This should of been the flashback storyline used in the season 6 final. I often forget that magic was exposed in this dark future, since the Halliwell manor is now a tour place.
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Post by adzpower on Apr 26, 2017 4:24:00 GMT -5
I didn't like Darryl, in fact by about season 5 he'd become completely redundant. Fair enough the first few seaons they needed a police contact because back then they actually helped people. But once the show became more about magic and fairytales they just didn't need him.
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craig
Familiar
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Post by craig on Apr 26, 2017 5:19:02 GMT -5
I didn't like Darryl, in fact by about season 5 he'd become completely redundant. Fair enough the first few seaons they needed a police contact because back then they actually helped people. But once the show became more about magic and fairytales they just didn't need him. I think the issue here was had Andy stayed he would of had a bigger purpose than Darryl in the same role, because he had known the Halliwell's as children and had been involved with Prue. But with Darryl the stories were limited, but if we had both Andy and Darryl for 8 seasons, then you got something to work with. I loved Darryl, but I can admit his story didn't really go anywhere. Too bad because had Andy not died, then he would of had more material to work with. |
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Post by linamorgana on Apr 27, 2017 6:38:06 GMT -5
What did the tour guide say that disproved it? Here's exactly what the tour guide said (bolding mine): Source: transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=4812"finally vanquished themselves" says all three were vanquished together (so he also lied to Victor about Piper dying unless again Phoebe and Paige died at the same time, which again, is never shown in any fanfic. Again telling Victor what would hurt him most so he'd feel sympathy for Chris.) And over 1000 vanquishes - no way they had that many before 'Oh, My Goddess!', the proof that he lied when he said this: Source: transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=4830Very obviously this is not true. As I've said before, even Chris-fans know this. Whenever they write about Chris' original future, they always include all three Charmed Ones as alive. And again, he did it to make himself seem like their savior when if we truly knew the show's plan for him had Krause not signed his contract, he might have truly wanted to do something else. Of course, for me, a lot of this is because I think it would've been a much better show had Chris been the Big Bad of Season Six, the way I believe he would've been had Holly not become pregnant (check the episodes before 'The Sword and the City', which is when Holly says she found out she was pregnant and the ones after...) letting Wyatt remain the good Twice-Blessed Child. But even with that bias, that still does not excuse his lies, or more, does not excuse Kern for not figuring a way to either make his lies seem like the truth or have him apologize for his lies. Valkyrie Doll's wonderful story (and the parts at P3 are all based on hers) shows how this could've/should've been done. So much better than what was.[/quote] Is that really to say they couldn't have been vanquished at different times? I don't believe that Paige was killed by the Titans anyway because Chris said he always used to go to Paige for advice or money in the future or something |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Apr 27, 2017 7:50:14 GMT -5
Here's exactly what the tour guide said (bolding mine): Source: transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=4812"finally vanquished themselves" says all three were vanquished together (so he also lied to Victor about Piper dying unless again Phoebe and Paige died at the same time, which again, is never shown in any fanfic. Again telling Victor what would hurt him most so he'd feel sympathy for Chris.) And over 1000 vanquishes - no way they had that many before 'Oh, My Goddess!', the proof that he lied when he said this: Source: transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=4830Very obviously this is not true. As I've said before, even Chris-fans know this. Whenever they write about Chris' original future, they always include all three Charmed Ones as alive. And again, he did it to make himself seem like their savior when if we truly knew the show's plan for him had Krause not signed his contract, he might have truly wanted to do something else. Of course, for me, a lot of this is because I think it would've been a much better show had Chris been the Big Bad of Season Six, the way I believe he would've been had Holly not become pregnant (check the episodes before 'The Sword and the City', which is when Holly says she found out she was pregnant and the ones after...) letting Wyatt remain the good Twice-Blessed Child. But even with that bias, that still does not excuse his lies, or more, does not excuse Kern for not figuring a way to either make his lies seem like the truth or have him apologize for his lies. Valkyrie Doll's wonderful story (and the parts at P3 are all based on hers) shows how this could've/should've been done. So much better than what was. Is that really to say they couldn't have been vanquished at different times? I don't believe that Paige was killed by the Titans anyway because Chris said he always used to go to Paige for advice or money in the future or something[/quote]The way she says it, yes, I do think all three were vanquished together and have read *some* fics where that's the case. Again, Chris-fans who know that he's a liar and seem to think that that's okay. |
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Post by Chrisaholic on Apr 27, 2017 10:57:43 GMT -5
I think we don't know or can't know about Chris' old future and how it may have changed meanwhile because of the great inconsistency here and the many writers of the show. There were bits and pieces and only two episodes where we got some background of Chris, and that certainly was not enough!
So the lies and all could be blamed on other things and not on the character itself.
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Post by adzpower on Apr 27, 2017 14:44:00 GMT -5
Why do people say that "before they were finally vanquished themselves" means they were all vanquished together? It doesn't mean that at all. Just because the guide didn't go into details doesn't mean they were all killed at the same time, for all we know it could have been years apart.
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Post by lordumbrex on Apr 27, 2017 17:11:21 GMT -5
Why do people say that "before they were finally vanquished themselves" means they were all vanquished together? It doesn't mean that at all. Just because the guide didn't go into details doesn't mean they were all killed at the same time, for all we know it could have been years apart. Pretty much, anybody reading anything into that is simply inferring. To that end, people should not be reading into what a tour guide says, when the tour is stated to be a shrine put up by Wyatt to remind people of his greatness, in the first place. She said whatever Wyatt wanted her to say, nothing more, nothing less. It's not like is a paid auditor meant to tell the truth. She is a tour guide, someone who says whatever truths the victors of history write. |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Apr 27, 2017 17:53:39 GMT -5
But that is also inferring. You don't know if that's what Wyatt wanted her to say or if that's what actually happened.
I choose to believe her. If other fans don't want to, they don't have to.
But I believe that if Chris was telling Victor the truth, then there's no way Phoebe and Paige would've been able to vanquish that many demons without the Power of Three or the Power of One - Piper's explosion powers. And had this happened due to Piper's death, that's what the tour guide would've said - either until the mother of the Twice-Blessed was killed or until the mother of the Twice-Blessed died. That's also what tells me that the Charmed Ones were vanquished together.
Again, we're discussing opinions here based on what we saw. Based on what I saw, this is my unpopular opinion - and nothing happened to say that it could not be the truth. I'm just glad that most fans seem to agree that Kern turned Chris into a liar when he had him say that the Titans had killed Paige but then didn't do anything to change that, the reason why I refuse to believe a word Chris ever said about the future.
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Post by lordumbrex on Apr 27, 2017 19:51:12 GMT -5
But that is also inferring. You don't know if that's what Wyatt wanted her to say or if that's what actually happened. I choose to believe her. If other fans don't want to, they don't have to. But I believe that if Chris was telling Victor the truth, then there's no way Phoebe and Paige would've been able to vanquish that many demons without the Power of Three or the Power of One - Piper's explosion powers. And had this happened due to Piper's death, that's what the tour guide would've said - either until the mother of the Twice-Blessed was killed or until the mother of the Twice-Blessed died. That's also what tells me that the Charmed Ones were vanquished together. Again, we're discussing opinions here based on what we saw. Based on what I saw, this is my unpopular opinion - and nothing happened to say that it could not be the truth. I'm just glad that most fans seem to agree that Kern turned Chris into a liar when he had him say that the Titans had killed Paige but then didn't do anything to change that, the reason why I refuse to believe a word Chris ever said about the future. It's not an inference at all, it's an implication from the show. They literally say Wyatt put the museum up to show his greatness in the episode. Edit: But I'm not even arguing your overall point, just simply stating that's not good evidence. Your best evidence is what he says in Oh My Goddess vs what he says in Spin City in regards to Paige. |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Apr 27, 2017 20:13:47 GMT -5
No, that's still inference, because it still does not mean that Wyatt told the tour guide to say something besides the truth. Me saying she is telling the truth and the three died together while Chris lied about Piper dying first is still as accurate as saying that he didn't lie.
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Post by lordumbrex on Apr 27, 2017 21:15:43 GMT -5
It's not an inference when Wyatt literally says:
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Apr 27, 2017 21:26:55 GMT -5
EXACTLY! The power he was born from was THE CHARMED ONES! Hence why he reminds everyone of how many demons they vanquished before being vanquished themselves. And he's REMINDING them, not telling them. It wouldn't do any good to have the tour guide lie, the way it did do Chris some good by lying to him mother and lying to his grandfather. In the future, everyone knows how many the Charmed Ones vanquished - which would not have happened had the Power of One - his mother - died before Phoebe and Paige did. No way Phoebe and Paige could vanquish that many without Piper's explosions and potions. And had she died first - as everyone would know - that's what the tour guide would've said.
Like I keep saying, this is all due to Brad Kern's screwups. But because he screwed up, we have to go by what was shown. And that's what was shown.
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craig
Familiar
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Post by craig on Apr 27, 2017 21:33:51 GMT -5
I took everything Chris said with a grain of salt. That being said, what the tour guide said I would believe she is telling the truth, or that is the impression I got upon seeing the episode.
But in saying that, She was pretty vague with how they exactly died. She didn't go into more details than that. So them being vanquished together as in literally all dying at the same time is open to debate. Even though she made it appear that way. We could of ended up in another situation with only one sister surviving, and this sister might have possibly still died sometime later but not years. So nobody here is right or wrong, we just didn't get enough evidence unless they gave us a flashback scene showing exactly how they all died.
But really the writing in season 6 made no sense with planning, so it is hard to really fully believe a majority of the stories. Because we never got a 100% clear indication of what happened in this dark future in flashbacks.
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Post by adzpower on Apr 28, 2017 4:48:48 GMT -5
Honestly I suppose we'll never know, but with how devious Wyatt had become I wouldn't be shocked if he himself was responsible for the Charmed Ones' deaths' and told the guide to say what she said to hide the truth, if people knew that Wyatt had killed their only saviours then there could be a rebellion. In fact I'd love to see a fanfic on that, Chris leading a rebellion, like in Star Wars, but instead of getting the death star plans their goal is to get the time travel spell.
As for what the guide specifically says, I've been thinking and maybe she didn't even mean all three Charmed Ones, "before they themselves were finally vanquished" could just be a general reference to the power of three ending and darkness coming upon the world, with possibly only one sister left, what could they do? I like to think Paige orbed out of harms way as she was shown to do in "Paige From the Past", Chris mentioned he went to her for money, perhaps because she was the only good relative he had left? Perhaps Paige became a recluse albeit a rich one. Living in a magical cave hidden deep in the Leprachaun realms LOL.
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craig
Familiar
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Post by craig on May 1, 2017 0:11:41 GMT -5
Honestly I suppose we'll never know, but with how devious Wyatt had become I wouldn't be shocked if he himself was responsible for the Charmed Ones' deaths' and told the guide to say what she said to hide the truth, if people knew that Wyatt had killed their only saviours then there could be a rebellion. In fact I'd love to see a fanfic on that, Chris leading a rebellion, like in Star Wars, but instead of getting the death star plans their goal is to get the time travel spell. As for what the guide specifically says, I've been thinking and maybe she didn't even mean all three Charmed Ones, "before they themselves were finally vanquished" could just be a general reference to the power of three ending and darkness coming upon the world, with possibly only one sister left, what could they do? I like to think Paige orbed out of harms way as she was shown to do in "Paige From the Past", Chris mentioned he went to her for money, perhaps because she was the only good relative he had left? Perhaps Paige became a recluse albeit a rich one. Living in a magical cave hidden deep in the Leprachaun realms LOL. I never considered it being Wyatt. But if that was the case, I don't think he would of killed them all off at once literally. I still consider in this circumstance, Piper being the one he saves for last, after killing off the others. It seemed pretty vague and as I said before, we just didn't get enough information on how they died to know the truth. |
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Post by mavbay on May 1, 2017 15:05:34 GMT -5
I never cared for Leo and think he shouldn't have appeared after "Wicca Envy".
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Post by charmedforlife28 on May 1, 2017 16:29:56 GMT -5
I never cared for Leo and think he shouldn't have appeared after "Wicca Envy". Just wondering what you didn't like about him? |
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craig
Familiar
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Post by craig on May 1, 2017 22:17:00 GMT -5
I never cared for Leo and think he shouldn't have appeared after "Wicca Envy". Yeah Leo should of stayed gone, I think the longer he stayed the more I disliked him. |
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