When did Charmed get its jump the shark moment?

[BriannaWarren2.0]

I guess when Wyatt was born, I would have loved for Prudence Melinda to be born rather than Wyatt with her being a full witch until she dies then she can be a whitelighter. 

I would actually have preferred for Phoebe's child with Cole to be born rather than Wyatt, it could have played into the Twice-Blessed Child prophecy better, when a child born from a powerful witch and a powerful demon, that child will be blessed from the two different lines, with the power of uniting both good and evil to defeat a common enemy, that would have been a great legacy for a child of the Charmed One. I would have written this child to be a female, but I digress. 

It made zero sense for them to write Phoebe's pregnancy out to only then write Piper's pregnancy (I understood Piper being Chris' mother because of Holly Marie's pregnancy but I don't understand with Wyatt) which is why I believe why Phoebe became overbearing with Wyatt, it's because she never got over her pregnancy with her baby. 

[Andrew]

Oct 27, 2021 1:59:01 GMT -5 BriannaWarren2.0 said:

I guess when Wyatt was born, I would have loved for Prudence Melinda to be born rather than Wyatt with her being a full witch until she dies then she can be a whitelighter. 

I would actually have preferred for Phoebe's child with Cole to be born rather than Wyatt, it could have played into the Twice-Blessed Child prophecy better, when a child born from a powerful witch and a powerful demon, that child will be blessed from the two different lines, with the power of uniting both good and evil to defeat a common enemy, that would have been a great legacy for a child of the Charmed One. I would have written this child to be a female, but I digress. 

It made zero sense for them to write Phoebe's pregnancy out to only then write Piper's pregnancy (I understood Piper being Chris' mother because of Holly Marie's pregnancy but I don't understand with Wyatt) which is why I believe why Phoebe became overbearing with Wyatt, it's because she never got over her pregnancy with her baby. 

For me, it was even before Wyatt was actually born, when a fetus - who didn’t even have a fully developed brain, at that point - was shown to be capable of working complex magic that even the Charmed Ones themselves couldn’t match. That was about the point where my suspension of disbelief snapped loudly.

[rebooted]

Oct 27, 2021 1:59:01 GMT -5 BriannaWarren2.0 said:

I guess when Wyatt was born, I would have loved for Prudence Melinda to be born rather than Wyatt with her being a full witch until she dies then she can be a whitelighter. 

I would actually have preferred for Phoebe's child with Cole to be born rather than Wyatt, it could have played into the Twice-Blessed Child prophecy better, when a child born from a powerful witch and a powerful demon, that child will be blessed from the two different lines, with the power of uniting both good and evil to defeat a common enemy, that would have been a great legacy for a child of the Charmed One. I would have written this child to be a female, but I digress. 

It made zero sense for them to write Phoebe's pregnancy out to only then write Piper's pregnancy (I understood Piper being Chris' mother because of Holly Marie's pregnancy but I don't understand with Wyatt) which is why I believe why Phoebe became overbearing with Wyatt, it's because she never got over her pregnancy with her baby. 

Yeah I would have preferred Phoebes baby live as the twice blessed child or something like that in a prophecy and then PJ being a regular witch.

Perhaps secrets and guys just had too many chef / writers in the kitchen with Sheryl, Brad and Connie as the writers. Leo still could have been a forbidden love story in the fact that he belonged to a healer passivised coven maybe.

Max would have been a cool character to come back and support the charmed ones as male witches were established with him in this episode. Don’t know why Leo has made a white lighter.

[Too Much Coffee]

Aug 26, 2021 2:47:29 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

I think, for the general audience, it was S7. If it truly was about Paige and/or Wyatt, the series would've ended a long time ago, but it didn't because I think the excitement ended with S7, IMO.

Maybe. But that's not a jump the shark moment. As this thread states a true jump-the-shark moment is just a moment, not a season or even an entire episode, it's a moment, it got the name from Fonzie skiing and jumping over a shark.

For the general audience that's tough to figure out. I'd guess it would be perhaps learning Prue was dead at the start of S4, Leo becoming an Elder (those fans would hate that and their favorite couple splitting up), Phoebe transforming into a Mermaid (start of magical creatures plotlines). Just to name a few possible ones. I'd tend to think whenever the ratings dropped is enough indication of when viewers thought it jumped the shark to stop watching.

[Aaeiyn]

Oct 28, 2021 13:48:06 GMT -5 Too Much Coffee said:

For the general audience that's tough to figure out. I'd guess it would be perhaps learning Prue was dead at the start of S4, Leo becoming an Elder (those fans would hate that and their favorite couple splitting up), Phoebe transforming into a Mermaid (start of magical creatures plotlines). Just to name a few possible ones. I'd tend to think whenever the ratings dropped is enough indication of when viewers thought it jumped the shark to stop watching.

I don't really agree with a drop in viewership means the show "jumped the shark". If that were true, S4 would've been our last season for the "no Prue, no Charmed" crowd, or S5 for the "too fluff" crowd.

That being said, it really was S7, for me. And, for some reason, I don't like the second seasons of both eras. IMO (key phrase), both S2 and S5 suck. Both are the second seasons to their respective eras. I think it picks back up in both of their third seasons, in their respective eras via S3a and S6a.

I'll admit, the Prue era surpasses the Paige era by a little bit because I thoroughly enjoy S1, S3a and S6a. Some of the S5b and S7a stuff are OK, but I don't like them as much as I do S1, S3a and S6a.

I'm too all over place, with the series xD

[Emmett]

Oct 15, 2020 18:27:49 GMT -5 Julian said:

Starting this thread, my very first one. To ask members what their jump the shark moment was on Charmed?

I came across a thread asking When did Charmed get its growing the beard moment, so this thread can be a companion to that.

Again just to clarify (A true jump-the-shark moment is just a moment, not a season or even an entire episode, it's a moment, it got the name from Fonzie skiing and jumping over a shark.)

So some examples may be:
When Leo proposed to Piper in the bathroom
When Piper got her new power and blew up the watermelon
When Phoebe lied to her sisters about Cole
When Paige orbs
When Wyatt was born

For me that's a toss-up between Melinda turning out to be a boy in 'The Day the Magic Died' and Cole's eyes going black in 'Charmed and Dangerous'. 

Thanks for clearing up the notion of Jumping the Shark. So it's a moment not a period of the season. But the exact point in time that they show jumps the shark.

Never seen Happy Days (before my time), but found this interesting. So he literally jumped the shark. Neat!

Thank you google.

The idiom “jumping the shark” was coined after Arthur “Fonzie” Fonzarelli (Henry Winkler) literally jumped a shark in the season 5 episode “Hollywood: Part 3.” Rocking water skis and his signature leather jacket, the Fonz veered the show further away from its nostalgic origins.

[BriannaWarren2.0]

Oct 27, 2021 3:39:39 GMT -5 rebooted said:

Oct 27, 2021 1:59:01 GMT -5 BriannaWarren2.0 said:

I guess when Wyatt was born, I would have loved for Prudence Melinda to be born rather than Wyatt with her being a full witch until she dies then she can be a whitelighter. 

I would actually have preferred for Phoebe's child with Cole to be born rather than Wyatt, it could have played into the Twice-Blessed Child prophecy better, when a child born from a powerful witch and a powerful demon, that child will be blessed from the two different lines, with the power of uniting both good and evil to defeat a common enemy, that would have been a great legacy for a child of the Charmed One. I would have written this child to be a female, but I digress. 

It made zero sense for them to write Phoebe's pregnancy out to only then write Piper's pregnancy (I understood Piper being Chris' mother because of Holly Marie's pregnancy but I don't understand with Wyatt) which is why I believe why Phoebe became overbearing with Wyatt, it's because she never got over her pregnancy with her baby. 

Yeah I would have preferred Phoebes baby live as the twice blessed child or something like that in a prophecy and then PJ being a regular witch.

Perhaps secrets and guys just had too many chef / writers in the kitchen with Sheryl, Brad and Connie as the writers. Leo still could have been a forbidden love story in the fact that he belonged to a healer passivised coven maybe.

Max would have been a cool character to come back and support the charmed ones as male witches were established with him in this episode. Don’t know why Leo has made a white lighter.

I would have preferred it, it also could have given Cole a proper redemption arc, he raises his child with the knowledge that he has learnt over the century he has been alive, could you imagine the stories he would tell his daughter and the lessons that could have been learnt from them. 

I would have preferred Leo to be a healer as well, he would have made a great one however I still love him as a whitelighter but maybe he is just a healer and can teleport other than a messenger from the Elders, but I also like your suggestion of Leo being in a passivised coven. 

I loved Max too, I wished they did updates on him with one of the sisters teaching him about witchcraft. I wished they brought Kyra and Ava back. 

[Julian]

Jump the shark Moment:

When the words Twiced Blessed Child are spoken for the first time in 'The Day the Magic Died'.

The introduction of a special child is such an overdone trope in fantasy show dramas. It's been the killer of so many of my favorite shows. That trope has been overused in so many shows I've seen. The X-Files (William), Angel (Conner) and Xena (Eve) all did something like that.

[Aaeiyn]

Aug 14, 2022 22:09:10 GMT -5 Julian said:

Jump the shark Moment:

When the words Twiced Blessed Child are spoken for the first time in 'The Day the Magic Died'.

The introduction of a special child is such an overdone trope in fantasy show dramas. It's been the killer of so many of my favorite shows. That trope has been overused in so many shows I've seen. The X-Files (William), Angel (Conner) and Xena (Eve) all did something like that.

Understandable. Charmed does A LOT of these "special ones" stories. The Charmed Ones, themselves, are "the special ones", that I tend to "forgive" it.

[Aaeiyn]

After changing my mind so much, throughout my time, on this board, I've definitely changed my mind on this.

While, I still love S1-S3 & S6-S7, I can tell Charmed wasn't the same after killing off Andy.

As beloved as S2 is, S2 still doesn't have the same feel that S1 had. Especially, since I mark S2 as the season when the Network began having more say over the show, after realizing how successful S1 was.

After Andy's death, TWO characters were effected. One being Prue (understandably) and the other being Darryl. Unfortunately, for Darryl, his character has no place in the show, and why his character is super wonky with no direction, as the Andy character is what kept the Darryl character grounded and actually having a sense of purpose, in the show. Without Andy, Darryl's character makes no sense, in the show.

Darryl's reaction to finding out the Halliwells are witches, in S2E9 "Ms. Hellfire" was underwhelming and made no sense, and the show acts like Darryl is besties with the Halliwells, when that status has NEVER been earned. Prue's character became less mature and was lost (understandably so) without Andy. I always felt like Prue's character changes every season, and it doesn't make any sense, to me. The Andy character really grounded Prue's character, for me. And, I hate to say that Andy is the "glue", for the show, but I think he was.

His character makes sense to "cover up" for the girls, when they're in trouble because HE'S the one who KNOWS them and NOT Darryl. Andy's the human with the appropriate optimism for magic and is able to integrate his position, in the police force, to help people, properly. It really falls flat, when they try to make that Darryl's character or even Kyle Brody and Agent Murphy. NONE of them have the proper relationship with the Halliwells that Andy did, and only Andy can fill that role.

The series even starts off with a murder and after the intro plays, we're set back to investigating the murder with Andy. And, S2 didn't really know how to work out its "crime drama", anymore without Andy. It tried really hard with Darryl, but Darryl doesn't know the sisters well enough, the same way Andy did.

And everything S2 showcased with the sexier outfits, the romance of the sisters, extra characters (Dan & Jenny), etc., becomes glaringly more obvious that S2 really began the show's derailment and was NEVER going back to its roots, ever again.

We'll see how long this opinion sticks, but I don't think I'll be shying away from this position, anytime soon.

EDIT: I'd like to add, IK they can't control when actors quit but still, Andy missing is pretty huge, since he's such a staple, in S1.

EDIT 2: And to add why I cling onto S1E20 "The Power of Two" so much, as that is the ONLY episode, where Andy has a much more prominent role in helping the sisters out with a case and knowing their secret and magic and just wanting to still help people because that's who he is.

[greta]

Jul 30, 2023 4:09:47 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

After changing my mind so much, throughout my time, on this board, I've definitely changed my mind on this.

While, I still love S1-S3 & S6-S7, I can tell Charmed wasn't the same after killing off Andy.

As beloved as S2 is, S2 still doesn't have the same feel that S1 had. Especially, since I mark S2 as the season when the Network began having more say over the show, after realizing how successful S1 was.

After Andy's death, TWO characters were effected. One being Prue (understandably) and the other being Darryl. Unfortunately, for Darryl, his character has no place in the show, and why his character is super wonky with no direction, as the Andy character is what kept the Darryl character grounded and actually having a sense of purpose, in the show. Without Andy, Darryl's character makes no sense, in the show.

Darryl's reaction to finding out the Halliwells are witches, in S2E9 "Ms. Hellfire" was underwhelming and made no sense, and the show acts like Darryl is besties with the Halliwells, when that status has NEVER been earned. Prue's character became less mature and was lost (understandably so) without Andy. I always felt like Prue's character changes every season, and it doesn't make any sense, to me. The Andy character really grounded Prue's character, for me. And, I hate to say that Andy is the "glue", for the show, but I think he was.

His character makes sense to "cover up" for the girls, when they're in trouble because HE'S the one who KNOWS them and NOT Darryl. Andy's the human with the appropriate optimism for magic and is able to integrate his position, in the police force, to help people, properly. It really falls flat, when they try to make that Darryl's character or even Kyle Brody and Agent Murphy. NONE of them have the proper relationship with the Halliwells that Andy did, and only Andy can fill that role.

The series even starts off with a murder and after the intro plays, we're set back to investigating the murder with Andy. And, S2 didn't really know how to work out its "crime drama", anymore without Andy. It tried really hard with Darryl, but Darryl doesn't know the sisters well enough, the same way Andy did.

And everything S2 showcased with the sexier outfits, the romance of the sisters, extra characters (Dan & Jenny), etc., becomes glaringly more obvious that S2 really began the show's derailment and was NEVER going back to its roots, ever again.

We'll see how long this opinion sticks, but I don't think I'll be shying away from this position, anytime soon.

EDIT: I'd like to add, IK they can't control when actors quit but still, Andy missing is pretty huge, since he's such a staple, in S1.

EDIT 2: And to add why I cling onto S1E20 "The Power of Two" so much, as that is the ONLY episode, where Andy has a much more prominent role in helping the sisters out with a case and knowing their secret and magic and just wanting to still help people because that's who he is.

You nailed this so wonderfully. I couldn't agree more.

In essence Darryl is just a plot-device used for the police cover-ups. Comes on the scene helps the sisters off and then essentially gets lost and goes home to his off-screen life with Sheila. With Andy there's a whole backstory with his ties to not only Prue but Piper and Phoebe because they grew up together. Like you said, the sisters don't know Darryl too well. They tried hard to sell they had this friendship, but I never saw them as friends at all. 

We saw in "The Power of Two" just how great Andy would be in a more prominent role helping the sisters, if this extended into S2 if he was alive, I feel like he'd be way more central than Darryl ever was. 





 

[Keeper Of Melinda's Locket]

I've been thinking long and hard about this. I haven't made my mind up yet, but I'm going to note down several potential points for now and some I picked up from reading this thread and put together in this post.

NOTE: I haven't got time right now to write in cons for all the others yet. But anybody is feel to add to the list. 

I see we have a growing the beard moment thread somewhere. But I can't find it. I saw it a week ago. Nice to pin-point that in comparison with the jumping the shark moment. You'll get to figure out what IS CHARMED for you. With your ideal season being between the growing the beard moment and jump the shark moment.

1) Leo is healed and brought back by Piper and sticks around going into S2. - Love Hurts

CONS: Moving Forward
*More whitelighter mythology which leads to Elders which leads to Up There.
*Damaging Piper's character in the long run.
*The creation of half-white lighters.

2) Andy's death - Deja Vu All Over Again

CONS: Moving forward.
*The show feels less grounded with a mortal/non-magical voice.
*Darryl's character has nobody to bounce off. And has no sense of purpose other than being a plot device for crime-related scenes.
*The sisters lose their grounded connection to someone from their past they all grew up with and new pre-becoming witches.
*The show becomes 70% magical (including Leo's character) and 30% grounded (Darryl, Dan S2, and then 10% grounded in S3 when Cole's introduced), where it was 50%/50% split with Andy in S1.


3) When Prue gets a new power and Astral Projects - Ms. Hellfire

4) When Leo proposed to Piper in the bathroom or When Cole makes the scene of the crime - The Honeymoon's Over

5) Piper's new power when she blew up the watermelon - Exit Strategy.

CONS: Moving forward.
*Less use of freezing power.
*Continuation of a second power for the sisters.
*Piper acting as a Power of One to blow up demons left and right.
*Less reliance on PO3 spells and being creative using their combined powers.

6) - When Phoebe lied to her sisters about Cole - Sleuthing With the Enemy

7) Prue's death - All Hell Breaks Loose

8) When Paige orbs - Charmed Again

9) When Coles eyes turn black - Charmed and Dangerous

10) Wyatt's birth - The Day the Magic Died

11) The Introduction of Magic School - The Legend of Sleepy Halliwell

12) The Introduction of Billie - Still Charmed and Kicking

[rebooted]

I've been thinking about this a lot while I have been watching the series for the first time with my 12 year old niece. We are up to 4x03 and she loves it. She loves Paige's storyline thus far as well.

I do like how Season 4 ends and I am looking forward to a happier ending to Season 4, than what she described as the worst Season finale - Season 3! "Which she says just didn't feel like a Charmed episode - Charmed is supposed to make you feel good at the end - not terrified!"

She does know that Phoebe does turn into a mermaid in Season 5 which she thinks is pretty cool. However, Its the beginning of Season 5 which I think is the jump the shark moment. Or as I say 'Jumped the Mermaid' moment.

I don't really mind the Phoebe/Cole storyline because it helps develop Paiges character and she becomes the best sister in Season 4 - considering how new she is to the series. Its so hard to replace an actor and become a lead character and Rose McGowan does a good job of it. She's like Prue, but independent of her sisters and rational and a little more careful and logical but doesn't take away from what Prue bought to the show.

BUT I think everything goes out the window in 5x01 as soon as the episode opens and Phoebe is more wrapped up in herself, her billboards and being late for work than being interested in her new nieces bedroom. Phoebe is so out of character. They could have even explored depression or mental health issues attributing to her behaviour but shes just so selfish when the mermaid needs rescueing etc.

And then Paige quits her job and looks unrecognisable as a sister anymore. Imagine if she had red hair from the start - no one would buy that they were sisters. It wasn't like Phoebe's blonde at all which you could tell was blonde fading out of brown hair. I would rather Phoebe have lost her job and Paige kept hers.

Paige also quits her job and becomes pimped out like Phoebe.

And the worst is how Coles character is written with Phoebe taking no responsibility. Cole should have stayed dead or justice should have been given to his character, reuniting with his captured fathers soul - who was really the innocent.

And also what was the point of the Power of Three or being The Charmed Ones after the biggest threat had been vanquished. Even Piper alone vanquished the Titans and Phoebe vanquished Cole via the potion in Centennial Charmed. It became redundant esp as Wyatt was born (instead of Melinda) who was more powerful than all 3 together?

There is no purpose to the show after Season 4 ends and even while we wait for Melinda - that is destroyed for us too.

[Aaeiyn]

Jul 31, 2023 5:27:09 GMT -5 rebooted said:

I think everything goes out the window in 5x01 as soon as the episode opens and Phoebe is more wrapped up in herself, her billboards and being late for work than being interested in her new nieces bedroom. Phoebe is so out of character. They could have even explored depression or mental health issues attributing to her behaviour but shes just so selfish when the mermaid needs rescueing etc.

I do agree that S5 is the most garbage season of the series but not because of most (not all) of your reasons.

First thing, Phoebe has ALWAYS been selfish, since S1E1 "Something Wicca This Way Comes". She hides behind Piper's meekness to allow herself to enter the Manor behind Prue's back because she knows Prue won't have any of that. Even more so, she COERCES both Prue and Piper into being witches, behind their backs because SHE wants to be "special". And even coldly mocks Prue's frustrations about it, at the pharmacy. She even tried to snake Leo away from Piper and bombards Piper's efforts into wanting to go to the movies with them.

In S2, she's the reason S2E2 "Morality Bites" happened and in fear of being murdered by the elders, she bosses around both Prue and Piper for doing "the right thing" because SHE doesn't want to die, AGAIN. We see this in S2E19 "Ex Libris" AND S3E2 "Magic Hour". Along with throwing a hissy fit about Piper's rejection of wanting to be a witch, in S2E17 "How to Make a Quilt Out of Americans", and only Prue was the understanding one.

She lies to her sisters about vanquishing Cole, for her own selfish reasons and became Queen of the Underworld because Phoebe has always been power-hungry. I would say by the time S5 hits, Paige helps Phoebe humble herself, as the events of S4E20 "Long Live the Queen" really tramatized Phoebe in what it means to be "special"/"powerful".

And so, not wanting to be late for work is understandable than checking out a nursery which can be looked at, any time. BUT, dumping on Miley to get to her divorce hearing was obnoxious and not reasonable, at all.

Jul 31, 2023 5:27:09 GMT -5 rebooted said:

And then Paige quits her job and looks unrecognisable as a sister anymore. Imagine if she had red hair from the start - no one would buy that they were sisters. It wasn't like Phoebe's blonde at all which you could tell was blonde fading out of brown hair. I would rather Phoebe have lost her job and Paige kept hers.

I don't understand this.

Are people not allowed to dye their hair?

Though, according to Rose, Rose was the one who wanted to dye her hair, but nobody at the show wanted her to. We can blame Rose for that one, for going against the show's wishes in NOT dying her hair, as Rose decided to dye her hair, anyway and told the show that its a show about magic, and they can make ANY excuse for why Paige's hair is now red.

Which the reason given was Rose's suggestion.

Still, though, I'm just amazed that nobody is allowed to dye their hair. That's the most realistic thing anyone can do, in life. I find it odd, you share the same position as the show, but I digress.

Jul 31, 2023 5:27:09 GMT -5 rebooted said:

Paige also quits her job and becomes pimped out like Phoebe.

And the worst is how Coles character is written with Phoebe taking no responsibility. Cole should have stayed dead or justice should have been given to his character, reuniting with his captured fathers soul - who was really the innocent.

I agree with you, here.

Jul 31, 2023 5:27:09 GMT -5 rebooted said:

And also what was the point of the Power of Three or being The Charmed Ones after the biggest threat had been vanquished. Even Piper alone vanquished the Titans and Phoebe vanquished Cole via the potion in Centennial Charmed. It became redundant esp as Wyatt was born (instead of Melinda) who was more powerful than all 3 together?

There is no purpose to the show after Season 4 ends and even while we wait for Melinda - that is destroyed for us too.

As far as S5 goes? Yes, there was no threat. S5 served more as an episodic series (similar to S1-S2) rather than this overarching story.

I feel S6-S7 achieved this better.

Thus, S5 being an absolute garbage season.

EDIT: To add, Paige is a HALF-Sister. I have a half-sister who's black, and I'm white. You wouldn't know we're related just by looking at us, so I find it silly that siblings need to look like one another, in order to be considered siblings, but I digress.

[rebooted]

Jul 31, 2023 6:01:50 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

Jul 31, 2023 5:27:09 GMT -5 rebooted said:

I think everything goes out the window in 5x01 as soon as the episode opens and Phoebe is more wrapped up in herself, her billboards and being late for work than being interested in her new nieces bedroom. Phoebe is so out of character. They could have even explored depression or mental health issues attributing to her behaviour but shes just so selfish when the mermaid needs rescueing etc.

I do agree that S5 is the most garbage season of the series but not because of most (not all) of your reasons.

First thing, Phoebe has ALWAYS been selfish, since S1E1 "Something Wicca This Way Comes". She hides behind Piper's meekness to allow herself to enter the Manor behind Prue's back because she knows Prue won't have any of that. Even more so, she COERCES both Prue and Piper into being witches, behind their backs because SHE wants to be "special". And even coldly mocks Prue's frustrations about it, at the pharmacy. She even tried to snake Leo away from Piper and bombards Piper's efforts into wanting to go to the movies with them.

In S2, she's the reason S2E2 "Morality Bites" happened and in fear of being murdered by the elders, she bosses around both Prue and Piper for doing "the right thing" because SHE doesn't want to die, AGAIN. We see this in S2E19 "Ex Libris" AND S3E2 "Magic Hour". Along with throwing a hissy fit about Piper's rejection of wanting to be a witch, in S2E17 "How to Make a Quilt Out of Americans", and only Prue was the understanding one.

She lies to her sisters about vanquishing Cole, for her own selfish reasons and became Queen of the Underworld because Phoebe has always been power-hungry. I would say by the time S5 hits, Paige helps Phoebe humble herself, as the events of S4E20 "Long Live the Queen" really tramatized Phoebe in what it means to be "special"/"powerful".

And so, not wanting to be late for work is understandable than checking out a nursery which can be looked at, any time. BUT, dumping on Miley to get to her divorce hearing was obnoxious and not reasonable, at all.

Jul 31, 2023 5:27:09 GMT -5 rebooted said:

And then Paige quits her job and looks unrecognisable as a sister anymore. Imagine if she had red hair from the start - no one would buy that they were sisters. It wasn't like Phoebe's blonde at all which you could tell was blonde fading out of brown hair. I would rather Phoebe have lost her job and Paige kept hers.

I don't understand this.

Are people not allowed to dye their hair?

Though, according to Rose, Rose was the one who wanted to dye her hair, but nobody at the show wanted her to. We can blame Rose for that one, for going against the show's wishes in NOT dying her hair, as Rose decided to dye her hair, anyway and told the show that its a show about magic, and they can make ANY excuse for why Paige's hair is now red.

Which the reason given was Rose's suggestion.

Still, though, I'm just amazed that nobody is allowed to dye their hair. That's the most realistic thing anyone can do, in life. I find it odd, you share the same position as the show, but I digress

EDIT: To add, Paige is a HALF-Sister. I have a half-sister who's black, and I'm white. You wouldn't know we're related just by looking at us, so I find it silly that siblings need to look like one another, in order to be considered siblings, but I digress.

Do you think they would have tired to recruit a red headed or blonde actress replace Shannen Doherty initially? Or for Alyssa Milano when Lori Rom left? 

The sisters looking a-like grounded the show when we had to believe in magic. It was believable that they were sisters at the core. The Season 5 promo pics look like 3 random witches.

Theres nothing wrong with dying your hair. Like I said - I didn't mind Phoebes because she was the youngest and sometimes the youngest does have lighter hair (in the summer esp) until they become older - so its passable. 

Rose McGowans red hair looked great as a red head, blonde and brunette.

But Also in 5x01 Paige has become reckless with magic compared to seeing her more cautious and considered in later Season 4 which I liked compared to Prue and Phoebe. Paige wanting an identity seperate to the sisters  would have been interesting to explore more (which Season 5 does touch on), but instead of Paige quitting her job - I would have liked Paige to leave the manor and focus more on her whitelighter side and her career rather than the super-witch side that felt un-Paige-like or the Goddess of War attribution she gained by the end of Season 5. 

So perhaps its not just the dying of the Paige's hair but also her character that has changed so much that makes her recognisable from just 3 months ago. 

Phoebe quiting the columnist job to persue further study, become a lecturer even further down the track and also being a part time carer for her future niece could have been more interesting. Still balance having a career with family obligations. 

I just think the brunette thing was such a trademark - but this is just a personal thing for me. I dont think I would have minded the hair colour changes if the show was more consistent, the characters didn't change so drastically (or if there was better character development) and if the storylines didn't decline so badly. 

I even like the last third of Season 6 a little more partly because Paiges hair colour is back and Alyssa's hair is growing out again and even though the storylines are wild and harry-pottery - it becomes aesthetically more believable that they are sisters who happen to be witches.

But like I said, the hair dying isn't such a big deal, its more the bizzare character changes and poor storylines and the exploration of the fairytales that makes the show less believable - that then visually seeps into the characters both visually and personally being unrecognisable. 

By season 5 they aren't concentrating on the sisterhood anymore and I think they show should have ended in Season 4. Rose should have left like she wanted when she was contractually allowed to as well.

[Aaeiyn]

Jul 31, 2023 9:44:35 GMT -5 rebooted said:

Do you think they would have tired to recruit a red headed or blonde actress replace Shannen Doherty initially? Or for Alyssa Milano when Lori Rom left? 

1) I don't think the writers are that creative and 2) The Paige Era set looks more alike, to me than the Prue Era set does, but I digress.

Jul 31, 2023 9:44:35 GMT -5 rebooted said:

The sisters looking a-like grounded the show when we had to believe in magic. It was believable that they were sisters at the core. The Season 5 promo pics look like 3 random witches.

Like I said, the Prue Era Set never looked alike, to me.

I will give the Unaired Pilot credit for making them look alike, though:

Lori may have LOOKED the part, but her acting fell flat, for the Phoebe character.

But, Alyssa? Absolutely, not:


And then they really don't look alike in the S2-S3 promos:


Although, Alyssa portrays the Phoebe character much better than Lori Rom.

I'd rather take the better portrayal than somebody who "looks the part".

Even the Reboot showcased different looking sisters.

Jul 31, 2023 9:44:35 GMT -5 rebooted said:

Theres nothing wrong with dying your hair. Like I said - I didn't mind Phoebes because she was the youngest and sometimes the youngest does have lighter hair (in the summer esp) until they become older - so its passable. 

On top of Shannen's jet black hair, when you really get into the series, and the only one with truly brown hair is Piper. So, none of them really looked alike, to me.

Jul 31, 2023 9:44:35 GMT -5 rebooted said:

Rose McGowans red hair looked great as a red head, blonde and brunette.

Everyone looked awesome in S5. Too bad the stories of S5 (outside of maybe like 5 episodes) were absolute garbage!

Again, "looking the part" =/= great acting portrayal of said characters

Jul 31, 2023 9:44:35 GMT -5 rebooted said:

But Also in 5x01 Paige has become reckless with magic compared to seeing her more cautious and considered in later Season 4 which I liked compared to Prue and Phoebe. Paige wanting an identity seperate to the sisters  would have been interesting to explore more (which Season 5 does touch on), but instead of Paige quitting her job - I would have liked Paige to leave the manor and focus more on her whitelighter side and her career rather than the super-witch side that felt un-Paige-like or the Goddess of War attribution she gained by the end of Season 5. 

So perhaps its not just the dying of the Paige's hair but also her character that has changed so much that makes her recognisable from just 3 months ago. 

A personality change wouldn't matter what color the character's hair is.

Though, I will say, Paige is my favorite from S5 'cause I find both Piper & Phoebe lacking, though Phoebe picks back up in S5b, but I digress.

Jul 31, 2023 9:44:35 GMT -5 rebooted said:

I just think the brunette thing was such a trademark - but this is just a personal thing for me. I dont think I would have minded the hair colour changes if the show was more consistent, the characters didn't change so drastically (or if there was better character development) and if the storylines didn't decline so badly. 

I even like the last third of Season 6 a little more partly because Paiges hair colour is back and Alyssa's hair is growing out again and even though the storylines are wild and harry-pottery - it becomes aesthetically more believable that they are sisters who happen to be witches.

I really couldn't care less about the hair color, as the portrayal of the characters is what's important, here.

Jul 31, 2023 9:44:35 GMT -5 rebooted said:

But like I said, the hair dying isn't such a big deal, its more the bizzare character changes and poor storylines and the exploration of the fairytales that makes the show less believable - that then visually seeps into the characters both visually and personally being unrecognisable.

By season 5 they aren't concentrating on the sisterhood anymore and I think they show should have ended in Season 4. Rose should have left like she wanted when she was contractually allowed to as well.

Character changes I get, along with poor storylines, not that I minded the "fairy tale" stuff, just wished the execution was better.

And, we can only tell the whole sisters storyline for so long. At what point can we start a new chapter?

But, I get it, for some (not all) of the fandom, Charmed ends at S4, for them. Maybe even sooner (like S2, for these boards or S3 for Prue fans). For others (and myself), it's S6-S7.

Though, I'm a special case, as I enjoy S6-S7 but not S4-S5. I do enjoy S1-S3, though and skip straight into S6-S7 😆

Jul 31, 2023 9:44:35 GMT -5 rebooted said:

Rose should have left like she wanted when she was contractually allowed to as well.

IDK why you keep bringing this up because she LITERALLY could not especially in S5, and that's probably why she dyed her hair, in the first place, to try and rebel her way out of the show via get fired like Shannen, but it didn't work.

Just like Holly couldn't leave after Shannen got fired. And, just like Shannen couldn't leave due to feeling similarly to Rose, on how the show was not what Shannen signed up for.

Rose was under the impression that the show would be cancelled by the end of S4 but still signed a 5 year contract, anyway.

She, LITERALLY, could not leave. Not without getting sued.

[rebooted]

Jul 31, 2023 12:02:47 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

Meh I disagree with 95% off your rebuttal but that's ok, we have differences of opinions. 

Its part of what makes this board so great.

I pretty much think S5-8 sucks and half of Season 4 does too - and I'm sure the next person has a different take.

I just think the hair dying is more symbolic of where I think the show started to decline - not the literal reason. Had the series not deteriorated in quality around this time perhaps the hair dying wouldn't even be something that bugged me.

Simply it was just too much change both visually, to the characters and in the story in 1 year year period - esp. 1 year after we had so much change.

But I am interested in where you have understood Rose McGowan not being able to quit by Season 4's end. My understanding was that she originally signed for a 1 year contract and then the WB renewed Charmed for Seasons 5, 6 and 7 (which is why I think the show got complacent because they new they had jobs for the next 3 years).

[Aaeiyn]

Jul 31, 2023 12:32:37 GMT -5 rebooted said:

Jul 31, 2023 12:02:47 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

Meh I disagree with 95% off your rebuttal but that's ok, we have differences of opinions. 

Its part of what makes this board so great.

Would be nice to hear further on the "why", but you don't need to have a "why" but still. Curiosity gets the best of me LOL

Jul 31, 2023 12:32:37 GMT -5 rebooted said:

I pretty much think S5-8 sucks and half of Season 4 does too - and I'm sure the next person has a different take.

OFC, though S6-S7 is still salvageable and not as sucky as S4-S5 & S8. Though, this board (I guess not you but others) do like S7.

Jul 31, 2023 12:32:37 GMT -5 rebooted said:

I just think the hair dying is more symbolic of where I think the show started to decline - not the literal reason. Had the series not deteriorated in quality around this time perhaps the hair dying wouldn't even be something that bugged me.

Simply it was just too much change both visually, to the characters and in the story in 1 year year period - esp. 1 year after we had so much change.

I just think the focus on hair color is pretty silly, when somebody looking the part doesn't mean they're actually playing the part. But, again, I get the character change (not hair color).

Jul 31, 2023 12:32:37 GMT -5 rebooted said:

But I am interested in where you have understood Rose McGowan not being able to quit by Season 4's end. My understanding was that she originally signed for a 1 year contract and then the WB renewed Charmed for Seasons 5, 6 and 7 (which is why I think the show got complacent because they new they had jobs for the next 3 years).

This isn't an "opinion" thing but a fact.

The article I linked you expresses that Rose signed a 5 year contract but was TOLD (verbal and NOT a contract) that Charmed may not proceed passed its 4th season (which is where you got the 1 year part) due to the removal of Shannen Doherty, and the fans that followed her.

Well, that didn't happen, and the show kept getting renewed, and Rose HAD to abide by her contract.

The person I'd question is Holly, if a "5 year contract" is typical, Why did Holly continue for S6-S8, if she was upset about Shannen's firing?

Probably because she got made Producer back in S5 and would continue to be so in S6-S8? Who knows?

I just know Rose was NOT a producer and was bound to a 5 year contract.

[Melinda Halliwell]

I agree with Aaeiyn here in terms of hair colour and whether characters should change or have that cut regularly or not because that doesn't matter unless the hairs really awful otherwise it's character development and personality that concern me especially when either changes suddenly with no explanation making me go WTF actually?

Paige in season 5 comes to mind when she quits her job and becomes more ditzier than she was smarter in season 4 naturally.

I mean she really wanted to be a social worker, took pride in her job was training and everything just to throw that away and become a full time witch. If anything Phoebe should've quit her job or taken a sabbatical to find herself again after what happened with Cole and everything.

Being a social worker was the perfect cover job for White Lighter Paige and a great place to meet charges the Elders sent her way.

As Aaeiyn said Rose signed a 5-year contract but didn't expect Charmed to survive postseason 4 which for her unfortunately, it did so she had no choice but to stay the same as the other actors obviously.

Rose dyed her hair red in the summer I believe before filming for season 5 started so the show had to write a way to explain the hair change which they did with the potion blowing up then.

My own fanfiction character changes her hair regularly or gets that cut which she's done since having a makeover in high school but her personality has always stayed the same.

The only time that changed is when she and her cousins discovered they were witches in the future and she toughened up as a person in terms of fighting evil and being proactive in that which she wouldn't have done before herself.

[Aaeiyn]

Jul 31, 2023 13:46:40 GMT -5 Melinda Halliwell said:

Paige in season 5 comes to mind when she quits her job and becomes more ditzier than she was smarter in season 4 naturally.

IDK where "Ditzy Paige" is coming from but alright LOL

Paige is the highlight of S5, for me.

Even with her quitting her job, at the end of S5E2 "A Witch's Tail, Pt 2", she was the only sister focused on saving and protecting BOTH Miley and Phoebe. Very focused on stopping the Siren, in S5E4 "Siren Song". Really into protecting Ava and trying to encourage Phoebe to tag along and get a premonition (but OFC, Phoebe was like "no") and all that jazz, in S5E6 "The Eyes Have it". Paige was the only one sympathetic to Cole, in S5E7 "Sympathy for the Demon" and tried to come up with non-lethal solutions. Stopped Cole in S5E12 "Centennial Charmed". She may not have thrown the potion but definitely did most of the work to clean up that mess. Came prepared to the S5E15 "The Day That Magic Died" set-up. If anything, Phoebe was the "dumb one", in that scenario. And brilliantly indexed the BoS in S5E19 "Nymphs Just Wanna Have Fun", so IDK where you're getting "ditzy" from LOL

EDIT: I was too eager to hit "Enter", that I didn't finish my post LOL

Jul 31, 2023 13:46:40 GMT -5 Melinda Halliwell said:

I mean she really wanted to be a social worker, took pride in her job was training and everything just to throw that away and become a full time witch. If anything Phoebe should've quit her job or taken a sabbatical to find herself again after what happened with Cole and everything.

Being a social worker was the perfect cover job for White Lighter Paige and a great place to meet charges the Elders sent her way.

While, I understand everybody loves Social Worker Paige, I just couldn't get into her being a Social Worker thing. And when S6 rolls around, I really enjoyed her Temp jobs particularly the Dog Walker and Fruit Packer LOL