When did Charmed get its jump the shark moment?

[theredqveen]

Not really sure any of these are actually "jump the shark" moments, as far as I understand it, it's supposed to be something so outlandish and ridiculous for the existing canon that the show becomes basically unrecognisable.

My choice would be something like the introduction of the more.... questionable magical decisions, like the fact that fairytales and their characters are real. I would have preferred that it kept to witches, demons, familiars and a more 'grounded' Wiccan experience. That's why the earlier seasons are better in my opinion!

[Aaeiyn]

Aug 20, 2023 13:30:06 GMT -5 theredqveen said:

Not really sure any of these are actually "jump the shark" moments, as far as I understand it, it's supposed to be something so outlandish and ridiculous for the existing canon that the show becomes basically unrecognisable.

It's all subjective 'cause what may be "recognizable" to you, is not for somebody else.

For me, as soon as S1 ended and S2 began, Charmed was no longer Charmed, for me. But, I kept up with it because I just like seeing the main characters being women that fight evil, everyday.

ALL the seasons feel different, to me. S2 is NOTHING like S1, to me.  And, OFC, S3 is NOTHING like S2, either.  I might say S4 is fairly close to S3 but OFC Shannen is out and Rose is in.  And then, S5 was very bright and fairy taley LOL And, you get what I mean, as the seasons progressed, they kept gradually deterring away from its S1 roots.

[rebooted]

Aug 20, 2023 23:31:06 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

Aug 20, 2023 13:30:06 GMT -5 theredqveen said:

Not really sure any of these are actually "jump the shark" moments, as far as I understand it, it's supposed to be something so outlandish and ridiculous for the existing canon that the show becomes basically unrecognisable.

It's all subjective 'cause what may be "recognizable" to you, is not for somebody else.

For me, as soon as S1 ended and S2 began, Charmed was no longer Charmed, for me. But, I kept up with it because I just like seeing the main characters being women that fight evil, everyday.

ALL the seasons feel different, to me. S2 is NOTHING like S1, to me.  And, OFC, S3 is NOTHING like S2, either.  I might say S4 is fairly close to S3 but OFC Shannen is out and Rose is in.  And then, S5 was very bright and fairy taley LOL And, you get what I mean, as the seasons progressed, they kept gradually deterring away from its S1 roots.

My moment has always been when it "Jumped the Mermaid" - Season 5x01. 

I can forgive the hurried storyline of season 4 as pure story arc drama. I'm fine with Paige and Rose McGowan. The sisters haven't "demonised" Cole yet and I can tollerate PhoeMe.

I could have forgiven Cole's reappearance in Witch Way Now? if that was his final goodbye until at least when he comes back towards the end of series - maybe 5 or 6 or something but not as a vilan. 

At A Witch's Tail its too far gone for me.

Mermaids (and fairytales) done that literally.

Pipers focus now is on her family - which is natural.

Phoebe is not 4x01, 3x01, 2x01, 1x01 Phoebe.

Paige has become a supporting character, behind Phoebe's billboards and has quit her job and has become reckless?

Cole isn't saveable anymore and his character is destroyed.

Melinda Halliwell is slowly being erased.

They've moved through and avenged Prue's death but we or they can't see her? not even flashbacks? No 1 year anniversary or nod?

[Aaeiyn]

Aug 21, 2023 5:42:23 GMT -5 rebooted said:

My moment has always been when it "Jumped the Mermaid" - Season 5x01. 

I can forgive the hurried storyline of season 4 as pure story arc drama. I'm fine with Paige and Rose McGowan. The sisters haven't "demonised" Cole yet and I can tollerate PhoeMe.

I could have forgiven Cole's reappearance in Witch Way Now? if that was his final goodbye until at least when he comes back towards the end of series - maybe 5 or 6 or something but not as a vilan. 

At A Witch's Tail its too far gone for me.

Mermaids (and fairytales) done that literally.

Pipers focus now is on her family - which is natural.

Phoebe is not 4x01, 3x01, 2x01, 1x01 Phoebe.

Paige has become a supporting character, behind Phoebe's billboards and has quit her job and has become reckless?

Cole isn't saveable anymore and his character is destroyed.

Melinda Halliwell is slowly being erased.

They've moved through and avenged Prue's death but we or they can't see her? not even flashbacks? No 1 year anniversary or nod?

I do think there's a difference between "jump the shark" and a terrible season.

Season 5 is, hands down, the worst season, in the entire show. I do believe S6-S7 managed to save the show, a little bit.

I agree that S5 is pretty cringe (more cringe than even I can handle). But, it's not where a lot of the changes began.

[rebooted]

Aug 21, 2023 7:07:42 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

Aug 21, 2023 5:42:23 GMT -5 rebooted said:

My moment has always been when it "Jumped the Mermaid" - Season 5x01. 

I can forgive the hurried storyline of season 4 as pure story arc drama. I'm fine with Paige and Rose McGowan. The sisters haven't "demonised" Cole yet and I can tollerate PhoeMe.

I could have forgiven Cole's reappearance in Witch Way Now? if that was his final goodbye until at least when he comes back towards the end of series - maybe 5 or 6 or something but not as a vilan. 

At A Witch's Tail its too far gone for me.

Mermaids (and fairytales) done that literally.

Pipers focus now is on her family - which is natural.

Phoebe is not 4x01, 3x01, 2x01, 1x01 Phoebe.

Paige has become a supporting character, behind Phoebe's billboards and has quit her job and has become reckless?

Cole isn't saveable anymore and his character is destroyed.

Melinda Halliwell is slowly being erased.

They've moved through and avenged Prue's death but we or they can't see her? not even flashbacks? No 1 year anniversary or nod?

I do think there's a difference between "jump the shark" and a terrible season.

Season 5 is, hands down, the worst season, in the entire show. I do believe S6-S7 managed to save the show, a little bit.

I agree that S5 is pretty cringe (more cringe than even I can handle). But, it's not where a lot of the changes began.

i disagree. Season 6 IMO was terrible. Season 7 had redeeming features I will give you that. But the show was too far gone by this point. 

Harry Potter rip off - be original - call it the academy or something. Why was Gideon dressed liked a Gryffindor school bay.

I never said Season 5 was Jump The Shark though. I think for me 5x01 was the point of no return - more so than a Jump the shark I guess.

[Aaeiyn]

Aug 21, 2023 7:50:13 GMT -5 rebooted said:

i disagree. Season 6 IMO was terrible. Season 7 had redeeming features I will give you that. But the show was too far gone by this point. 

Harry Potter rip off - be original - call it the academy or something. Why was Gideon dressed liked a Gryffindor school bay.

I never said Season 5 was Jump The Shark though. I think for me 5x01 was the point of no return - more so than a Jump the shark I guess.

Yes, IK you don't like S6, but you only mentioned your distaste for Magic School which doesn't come into play until MUCH later in S6.

As far as "originality" goes, I hate to break it to you, but this show has been ripping off...I mean "paying homages" to other things, since S1.

S1E4 "Dead Man Dating"? Total rip off...I mean "paying homage" to the movie "Ghost".

S1E5 "Dream Sorcerer"? "Nightmare on Elm Street", anyone?

S1E14 "Secrets & Guys"? "Touched by an Angel".

S2E21 "Apocalypse, Not" is its own version of the 4 Horsemen.

S3E2 "Magic Hour" is absoluetely "Lady Hawk"!

Not to mention, most of S3-S4 tried to be like Buffy, especially the Phoebe & Cole storyline via Buffy & Angel.

It really doesn't phase me how often Charmed rips off...I mean "pays homages" to other things.

That being said, S6 has more re-watchable episodes than S5. I hope you give S6 another chance, when we do the re-watches for it, soon.

And, whatever you want to call it, you pin pointed S5.

[rebooted]

Aug 21, 2023 8:40:51 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

Aug 21, 2023 7:50:13 GMT -5 rebooted said:

i disagree. Season 6 IMO was terrible. Season 7 had redeeming features I will give you that. But the show was too far gone by this point. 

Harry Potter rip off - be original - call it the academy or something. Why was Gideon dressed liked a Gryffindor school bay.

I never said Season 5 was Jump The Shark though. I think for me 5x01 was the point of no return - more so than a Jump the shark I guess.

Yes, IK you don't like S6, but you only mentioned your distaste for Magic School which doesn't come into play until MUCH later in S6.

As far as "originality" goes, I hate to break it to you, but this show has been ripping off...I mean "paying homages" to other thungs, since S1.

S1E4 "Dead Man Dating"? Total rip off...I mean "paying homage" to the movie "Ghost".

S1E5 "Dream Sorcerer"? "Nightmare on Elm Street", anyone?

S1E14 "Secrets & Guys"? "Touched by an Angel".

S2E21 "Apocalypse, Not" is its own version of the 4 Horsemen.

S3E2 "Magic Hour" is absoluetely "Lady Hawk"!

Not to mention, most of S3-S4 tried to be like Buffy, especially the Phoebe & Cole storyline via Buffy & Angel.

It really doesn't phase me how often Charmed rips off...I mean "pays homages" to other things.

That being said, S6 has more re-watchable episodes than S5. I hope you give S6 another chance, when we do the re-watches for it, soon.

And, whatever you want to call it, you pin pointed S5.

Yeah but on top of all that Season 6 just sucks and is really poorly written and badly executed. 

Just my opinion - I dont have to detail every single reason why it pains me lol. Its just such a disappointment. 

Maybe I liked what it was ripping off in the beginning. But I can barely stand any of Season 6. 

[Aaeiyn]

Aug 21, 2023 15:00:38 GMT -5 rebooted said:

Yeah but on top of all that Season 6 just sucks and is really poorly written and badly executed. 

Just my opinion - I dont have to detail every single reason why it pains me lol. Its just such a disappointment. 

Maybe I liked what it was ripping off in the beginning. But I can barely stand any of Season 6. 

OFC, we're going to have to agree to disagree on S6 "sucking". As I feel S5 holds that title. That's not to say S6 is the best season, as I feel ALL of the Prue Era seasons surpass it.

You don't need a reason, at all, to dislike something. Though, it does help solidify the point. As blanket statements don't make it objectively true. I've already conceded that this is ALL subjective.

But, I do think the hatred towards S6 is a bit much. Especially, when I'm still confused on the "why". Though (again), a "why" doesn't need to be presented. But, if we're trying to push for an objective goal, here, a "why" is definitely important.

OBJECTIVELY speaking, S6 is NOT the worst season. Though, SUBJECTIVELY speaking, it can be. Again, you've already established your SUBJECTIVE stance.

I'm ready to OBJECTIVELY put this SUBJECTIVE stance, to the test and get to the root of the issue, here and maybe understand BETTER on the "why" S6 "sucks". As I already understand the Phoebe hate train, but I'm at a loss, when it comes to the hatred towards S6. As no reason has been given. Again, no reason needs to be given. Just my curious mind likes to study the human brain, and how it functions, and how two different people can like the same show but enjoy it, differently.

Though, I am a little confused on why the rip offs...I'm sorry "homages", from earlier seasons get "a pass", but the later seasons don't, but I digress.

[zack]

LOL get a room you two. It's not that deep. 

Maybe most fans hate S6 because they find the Chris story boring or unfulfilled with not doing a good job at it. I like S6 because the individual episodes were fun and I like Chris adding someone new to the table. Just would've enjoyed him not being Piper and Leo's second son. But what can you do If Holly got pregnant. But it isn't better than S1 and S3.

S8 is my least liked season. Despite not hating Billie that much like the fandom. By that point they were not even trying with coming up with new unique concepts. I instead pulling rehashing episodes like putting characters in a Dollhouse again, Grams magic ring, time travel as a solution to a problem. There are maybe 1 or 2 episodes I like but that's it. S6 at least had episodes and concepts that were new.

[zack]

Aug 20, 2023 23:31:06 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

Aug 20, 2023 13:30:06 GMT -5 theredqveen said:

Not really sure any of these are actually "jump the shark" moments, as far as I understand it, it's supposed to be something so outlandish and ridiculous for the existing canon that the show becomes basically unrecognisable.

It's all subjective 'cause what may be "recognizable" to you, is not for somebody else.

For me, as soon as S1 ended and S2 began, Charmed was no longer Charmed, for me. But, I kept up with it because I just like seeing the main characters being women that fight evil, everyday.

ALL the seasons feel different, to me. S2 is NOTHING like S1, to me.  And, OFC, S3 is NOTHING like S2, either.  I might say S4 is fairly close to S3 but OFC Shannen is out and Rose is in.  And then, S5 was very bright and fairy taley LOL And, you get what I mean, as the seasons progressed, they kept gradually deterring away from its S1 roots.

You're right about that. Each season is different. 

I hate to say it but the show had rubbish continuity and rubbish world building. The writers at times felt like they try an idea out, get bored and backtrack to wrap it up. That all being said. I still love the show.

Aaeiyn, what do you think Leo was a prime problem of taking us away from the S1 roots. It was discussed in the re-watch thread how much they kept giving Leo plot when it wasn't necessary. That the actresses added influence to the show and their characters. With how much S1's feel was lost, do you think they didn't even like Connie's ideas in S1 for the sisters. Prue working at Bucklands for instance.

For those here (or you Aaeiyn if you have) who listen to that podcast, what's the takes on S1. Do they like the stories. If they hold so much hate on it, then I see why they would've kept influencing their characters as early as S2. 

[lunchking]

Aug 21, 2023 16:50:40 GMT -5 zack said:

Aug 20, 2023 23:31:06 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

It's all subjective 'cause what may be "recognizable" to you, is not for somebody else.

For me, as soon as S1 ended and S2 began, Charmed was no longer Charmed, for me. But, I kept up with it because I just like seeing the main characters being women that fight evil, everyday.

ALL the seasons feel different, to me. S2 is NOTHING like S1, to me.  And, OFC, S3 is NOTHING like S2, either.  I might say S4 is fairly close to S3 but OFC Shannen is out and Rose is in.  And then, S5 was very bright and fairy taley LOL And, you get what I mean, as the seasons progressed, they kept gradually deterring away from its S1 roots.

You're right about that. Each season is different. 

I hate to say it but the show had rubbish continuity and rubbish world building. The writers at times felt like they try an idea out, get bored and backtrack to wrap it up. That all being said. I still love the show.

Aaeiyn, what do you think Leo was a prime problem of taking us away from the S1 roots. It was discussed in the re-watch thread how much they kept giving Leo plot when it wasn't necessary. That the actresses added influence to the show and their characters. With how much S1's feel was lost, do you think they didn't even like Connie's ideas in S1 for the sisters. Prue working at Bucklands for instance.

For those here (or you Aaeiyn if you have) who listen to that podcast, what's the takes on S1. Do they like the stories. If they hold so much hate on it, then I see why they would've kept influencing their characters as early as S2. 

I have listened to the podcast. Holly Is critical about S1. She was even surprised when a fan told her S1 was their most favorite season on a Reddit QaA.

It does seem like they liked when they got more input and influence on their characters. Might be why Holly has a dislike for S1 apparently. I'm sure Shannen feels the same way hence why she pushed Photography onto Prue in S2. Which I disagree with. Especially when it isn't true to their characters.

[lunchking]

Aug 21, 2023 16:50:40 GMT -5 zack said:

Aug 20, 2023 23:31:06 GMT -5 Aaeiyn said:

It's all subjective 'cause what may be "recognizable" to you, is not for somebody else.

For me, as soon as S1 ended and S2 began, Charmed was no longer Charmed, for me. But, I kept up with it because I just like seeing the main characters being women that fight evil, everyday.

ALL the seasons feel different, to me. S2 is NOTHING like S1, to me.  And, OFC, S3 is NOTHING like S2, either.  I might say S4 is fairly close to S3 but OFC Shannen is out and Rose is in.  And then, S5 was very bright and fairy taley LOL And, you get what I mean, as the seasons progressed, they kept gradually deterring away from its S1 roots.

You're right about that. Each season is different. 

I hate to say it but the show had rubbish continuity and rubbish world building. The writers at times felt like they try an idea out, get bored and backtrack to wrap it up. That all being said. I still love the show.

Aaeiyn, what do you think Leo was a prime problem of taking us away from the S1 roots. It was discussed in the re-watch thread how much they kept giving Leo plot when it wasn't necessary. That the actresses added influence to the show and their characters. With how much S1's feel was lost, do you think they didn't even like Connie's ideas in S1 for the sisters. Prue working at Bucklands for instance.

For those here (or you Aaeiyn if you have) who listen to that podcast, what's the takes on S1. Do they like the stories. If they hold so much hate on it, then I see why they would've kept influencing their characters as early as S2. 

I have listened to the podcast. Holly Is critical about S1. She was even surprised when a fan told her S1 was their most favorite season on a Reddit QaA.

It does seem like they liked when they got more input and influence on their characters. Might be why Holly has a dislike for S1 apparently. I'm sure Shannen feels the same way hence why she pushed Photography onto Prue in S2. Which I disagree with. Especially when it isn't true to their characters.

[Aaeiyn]

Aug 21, 2023 16:21:32 GMT -5 zack said:

LOL get a room you two. It's not that deep. 

You're right, it's not. I'm just trying to spark conversation/discussion. And part of sparking conversation/discussion is asking the tough questions. Nobody has to converse, though, if they don't want to.

Aug 21, 2023 16:21:32 GMT -5 zack said:

Maybe most fans hate S6 because they find the Chris story boring or unfulfilled with not doing a good job at it. I like S6 because the individual episodes were fun and I like Chris adding someone new to the table. Just would've enjoyed him not being Piper and Leo's second son. But what can you do If Holly got pregnant. But it isn't better than S1 and S3.

Most (not all) fans (here, in particular) don't like S6 because of that correct. I've expressed my findings of this 3 months ago. Ironically, in the Is S6 the Most Disappointing and Why? thread created by the individual in question.

I agree with you about the OVERALL story, but the INDIVIDUAL stories are golden! Which, I thought this group prefers via INDIVIDUAL stories. As that's why S1-S2 is praised for it's INDIVIDUAL stories vs it's "overall" arc.

See, I'm not understanding why certain seasons get "a pass" on certain things and others don't. But, again, nobody has to explain anything, to me. Though, I am still free to bring up discussion and ask the tough questions to ignite conversation/discussion. ANYONE is able to jump in, at ANY time, if they feel like inserting their thoughts on the matter. And, not just the individual(s) in question.

But, I digress.

Aug 21, 2023 16:50:40 GMT -5 zack said:

Aaeiyn, what do you think Leo was a prime problem of taking us away from the S1 roots. It was discussed in the re-watch thread how much they kept giving Leo plot when it wasn't necessary. That the actresses added influence to the show and their characters. With how much S1's feel was lost, do you think they didn't even like Connie's ideas in S1 for the sisters. Prue working at Bucklands for instance.

Leo could've been included without needing to be the substitute for the BoS NOR Phoebe's Premonition.

I wrote about how S2 starts to derail from S1's INITIAL starting points. I wrote about it in the opposing thread to the S6 being "the worst" season thread via Is S2 the Best Season? thread. It doesn't help that the Network began meddling in more with the show, on top of the actors wanting to change their characters to be more like them.

Aug 21, 2023 16:50:40 GMT -5 zack said:

For those here (or you Aaeiyn if you have) who listen to that podcast, what's the takes on S1. Do they like the stories. If they hold so much hate on it, then I see why they would've kept influencing their characters as early as S2. 

Unfortunately, I haven't listened to it all that much. I listened up to S1E9 "The Witch is Back" one, but they're very critical of S1.

With the exception of Tony Denison (the actor to play the FIRST Victor iteration before James Read came in and played Victor, the rest of the way, from S3 forward). I LOVE re-listening to HIS recollections of his time in S1E3 "Thank You For Not Morphing". He seemed really excited to play in a show about magic 'cause according to him, he's never done something like that before. And, was excited to be thrown against a wall LOL

I REALLY dislike Drew Fuller's commentary, though regarding Andy, and I'm tired of him simping for Shannen, but that's just me.

[myystery]

Definitely the Season 5 premiere for me, this is when the show changed for good and not for the better. I was like 13 back then and not sure at the time whether I was just getting older and (as a boy) not that into a "girl show" anymore or the series was truly different. Nowadays I know it wasn't me, it was Charmed that changed dramatically. Seasons 5 - 8 are a different show for me anyway, though.

[rebooted]

Aug 25, 2023 2:47:48 GMT -5 myystery said:

Definitely the Season 5 premiere for me, this is when the show changed for good and not for the better. I was like 13 back then and not sure at the time whether I was just getting older and (as a boy) not that into a "girl show" anymore or the series was truly different. Nowadays I know it wasn't me, it was Charmed that changed dramatically. Seasons 5 - 8 are a different show for me anyway, though.

Same feeling! "Jumped The Mermaid"

[Aaeiyn]

Aug 25, 2023 2:47:48 GMT -5 myystery said:

Definitely the Season 5 premiere for me, this is when the show changed for good and not for the better. I was like 13 back then and not sure at the time whether I was just getting older and (as a boy) not that into a "girl show" anymore or the series was truly different. Nowadays I know it wasn't me, it was Charmed that changed dramatically. Seasons 5 - 8 are a different show for me anyway, though.

S5 definitely is a terrible season.

I'm not surprised to see the standard S1-S4 crowd, though.

But, again, S6 (despite what most, not all, here think) & S7 have better episodes, in the S5 - S8 bracket that really aren't that bad. When, the S6 re-watch arrives, I really hope people here, give it a chance.

Again, I'm NOT saying S6 - S7 are better than S1 - S3. Yes, I do think they're better than S4, but we can discuss that later.

Hands down, the Prue Era does have the better episodes over S6 & S7.

---

When it comes to S4, there's not a lot of episodes I actually like from this season. It's a pretty gloomy season. I get Prue died, and they're supposed to be mourning, but I don't want to constantly mourn, during my re-watches.

A lot of S4 episodes are just "OK". It's definitely better than S5, for sure, though.

I'm actually battling demoting S4 and putting S8 ahead of it, but we'll see lol

[Melinda Halliwell]

I liked the idea of season 6 in terms of the storyline concerning Chris's future and himself as a character I just wish both of them had been thought out more and being better written because there was so much potential to go in-depth more and show Chris's backstory plus his relationships with Bianca and Wyatt.

Their future could've been shown more in flashbacks which I would've enjoyed especially if Phoebe discovered what that future was through premonitions.

It would have also been interesting had the Charmed One's time-travelled and seen what that was like themselves so I don't necessarily dislike season 6 wholly it just could've been done better IMO then.

[Andrew]

Aug 25, 2023 14:14:58 GMT -5 Melinda Halliwell said:

I liked the idea of season 6 in terms of the storyline concerning Chris's future and himself as a character I just wish both of them had been thought out more and being better written because there was so much potential to go in-depth more and show Chris's backstory plus his relationships with Bianca and Wyatt.

Their future could've been shown more in flashbacks which I would've enjoyed especially if Phoebe discovered what that future was through premonitions.

It would have also been interesting had the Charmed One's time-travelled and seen what that was like themselves so I don't necessarily dislike season 6 wholly it just could've been done better IMO then.

Yeah, that’s an unfortunately common occurrence when it comes to Charmed: good ideas poorly executed.

[West]

Aug 25, 2023 14:51:48 GMT -5 Andrew said:

Aug 25, 2023 14:14:58 GMT -5 Melinda Halliwell said:

I liked the idea of season 6 in terms of the storyline concerning Chris's future and himself as a character I just wish both of them had been thought out more and being better written because there was so much potential to go in-depth more and show Chris's backstory plus his relationships with Bianca and Wyatt.

Their future could've been shown more in flashbacks which I would've enjoyed especially if Phoebe discovered what that future was through premonitions.

It would have also been interesting had the Charmed One's time-travelled and seen what that was like themselves so I don't necessarily dislike season 6 wholly it just could've been done better IMO then.

Yeah, that’s an unfortunately common occurrence when it comes to Charmed: good ideas poorly executed.

Agreed. But when it comes to Charmed it's the worst when it comes to crafting storyarcs. Charmed is a comfort show you can watch any episode at any point and be entertained for 42 mins.

[rebooted]

Aug 25, 2023 14:14:58 GMT -5 Melinda Halliwell said:

I liked the idea of season 6 in terms of the storyline concerning Chris's future and himself as a character I just wish both of them had been thought out more and being better written because there was so much potential to go in-depth more and show Chris's backstory plus his relationships with Bianca and Wyatt.

Their future could've been shown more in flashbacks which I would've enjoyed especially if Phoebe discovered what that future was through premonitions.

It would have also been interesting had the Charmed One's time-travelled and seen what that was like themselves so I don't necessarily dislike season 6 wholly it just could've been done better IMO then.

I think that Season 6 could have been one of the BEST seasons potentially and agree what what you have said above.