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Post by CharmedFaith on Dec 4, 2008 10:09:23 GMT -5
I dont think Patty was messing with Sam when she was with Victor. Their marriage was already on the rocks before Phoebe was concieved and they made it seem like he already left her and the family while she was pregnant with Phoebe and then came back for a little bit and then leave again shortly after Phoebes birth.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Dec 4, 2008 11:32:26 GMT -5
Yes, she did. As this conversation points out: How do we know how old Phoebe is in that video? It could've been the year before, BEFORE Victor left, which is also BEFORE Patty had her affair. Phoebe's age is just FANON; it was never actually said on the show, just like the others except for Paige's age and Prue's age (we were never told either birthdate--we don't know how old Paige was when Patty and Sam gave her up) Phoebe definitely wasn't just a year old in that video! So if you're using THAT as canon to say how old Phoebe is, it doesn't work. And PLEASE don't use the family tree! That thing is SOOO screwed up, there's no way you can use those dates. If you want to believe that Patty is a sl*t like Freebie, only thinking of her own libido and not the feelings of others, that's fine. I don't. It could NOT have been 1975, because Phoebe would've been less than two months old and not talking, let alone that big! "That 70's Episode": Patty wasn't showing and she didn't even know she was pregnant yet. This indicates she was most likely between one and three months pregnant with Phoebe. But it doesn't matter if she was one or three months, because either way, it makes Phoebe's CANON year of birth was 1975. Phoebe's family tree birthdate, despite the family tree itself being screwed up, is backed up by this date because it would make Patty about two or so months pregnant. But even if you don't believe it was November 2 (and FYI, Phoebe also says she's a Scorpio in "Once Upon A Time," placing her birthdate between October 23 - November 21, which once again backs up "That 70's Episode" and the date on the family tree), Phoebe would still NOT be old enough (even if born on October 23, 1975 - making her just two days over two months old) to be the baby we saw in "Thank You For Not Morphing." Disillusioning and disgusting, huh? |
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Post by Piper3 on Dec 4, 2008 21:13:32 GMT -5
Thats really annoying. When you think about it a lot of things on the show are really annoying.haha.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Dec 4, 2008 21:16:32 GMT -5
Piper was somewhere between 4-6 years old when Victor finally left. Now according to two different episodes - "Thank You For Not Morphing" and "Coyote Piper" - it is possible that Piper was born in 1972. According to the Season 1 episode, Piper was 3 years older than Phoebe, making her birth year 1972. And in the Season 3 episode, she graduated from high school in 1990 . . . again making her birth year 1972.
And if she was 4-6 years old when Victor left, then he may have left the family sometime between 1976 and 1978. Wikipedia - whom we cannot trust - claimed that Victor left around Piper's 5th birthday, which would make his departure around 1977. When Patty was pregnant with Paige.
According to the video tape that Victor left behind in "Thank You For Not Morphing", Phoebe had received a Barbie doll . . . which she was capable of holding up:
I doubt that a Phoebe who was less than two months old would be capable of doing this. In my opinion, Patty had been stepping out with Sam behind Victor's back. Sl*t.
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Post by jonsgirljen on Mar 3, 2009 20:16:57 GMT -5
I believe that it's a combination of Phoebe and the Seer as to why Cole became the Source. First, the Seer tricked Cole into using the power of the Hollow. I don't think that Cole expected to become the Source from that. He wouldn't have done it, he was trying to be good for Phoebe. Cole would always do anything for Phoebe.
Then, Phoebe had the chance to save Cole from the Wizard, but she didn't. The Seer had tricked her also, but even after that, Phoebe didn't try to save Cole from evil, she just accepted that they were evil and that was it until the night that she and her sisters vanquished him. She could've tried to come up with a plan to save him with Piper and Paige, but she didn't. She took the easy way out.
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Post by charmedparis on Mar 4, 2009 18:27:51 GMT -5
SEERS FAULT
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Piper3
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Post by Piper3 on Mar 15, 2009 0:44:20 GMT -5
I think it was the seers fault it happened, but Phoebe had the chance to change it and didn't. So I guess my questions was answered, no it wasn't her fault,so going off of that, was it Phoebes fault she became evil?
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Post by ljones on Mar 15, 2009 11:55:18 GMT -5
I blame four people:
The Seer - for manipulating Cole into using the Hollow to save the Halliwells
Cole - for allowing himself to be manipulated in the first place
The Source - for possessing Cole's body
Old Phoebe - for failing to tell anyone what had happened to Cole
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Post by Piper3 on Mar 15, 2009 14:23:43 GMT -5
I don't blame Cole because he didn't know he would become the source, he had to do something otherwise the charmedones would have died. As for old Phoebe she didn't want to change the future, which she would have in a big way. So yes it was partly the seers fault. But Phoebe pretty much had the choice and she chose the source who she thought was Cole over her sisters. Evil over Good.
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Post by ljones on Mar 16, 2009 11:09:44 GMT -5
But Cole had suspicions that something was up with the Seer's deal regarding the Hollow. And he decided to ignore it, due to his desperation over saving Phoebe. Nor did he bother to consider that the Halliwells still had a chance to overcome the Source, regardless of how slim those chances were.
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Post by Piper3 on Mar 17, 2009 20:31:34 GMT -5
How did they have any chance? He had 2 of their powers plus all the powers in the hollow plus his own. There was no way. Phoebe didn't even really have an active power.
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Post by ljones on Mar 18, 2009 12:40:23 GMT -5
How did they have any chance? He had 2 of their powers plus all the powers in the hollow plus his own. There was no way. Phoebe didn't even really have an active power. And yet, they were able to vanquish the Source anyway. Yes . . . Phoebe, Piper and Paige vanquished the Source, while he had Piper and Paige's active powers. And Phoebe's active power wasn't needed. What was needed was a Power of Three spell, combined with power from the spirits of past dead Warren witches. |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Mar 18, 2009 12:47:56 GMT -5
None of those powers were needed no matter if they were active powers or not, since having those powers isn't what did the vanquishing. Piper, Phoebe and Paige just had to be The Charmed Ones--three sisters descended from Melinda Warren. As such, they had access to The Power of Three, the most powerful connection ever. Add that to the powers of the Warren Matriarchs and the Hollow/Source didn't stand a chance!
As for was it Phoebe's fault that SHE turned evil--YES!!! Although she never took responsiblity for her own actions, just like she never did, she made that choice to turn her back on her sisters for Cole. For that choice, although she kept trying to blame Cole, she truly had no one to blame but herself.
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Post by ljones on Mar 18, 2009 12:51:14 GMT -5
None of those powers were needed no matter if they were active powers or not. They just had to be The Charmed Ones--three sisters descended from Melinda Warren. As such, they had access to The Power of Three, the most powerful connection ever. Add that to the powers of the Warren Matriarchs and the Hollow/Source didn't stand a chance! You mean that the Source didn't have a chance. It's interesting how this show views power as brute force. I can only wonder if the sisters had the brains to think of another way to vanquish the Source without brute force. |
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Post by Piper3 on Mar 19, 2009 19:25:39 GMT -5
What I mean was, Piper was injured, and the source had their powers. If they didn't have their powers they would have been strong enough to say the spell.
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Post by Esmeralda on Mar 19, 2009 20:23:46 GMT -5
Sure they were! As long as there were the three of them together, they could access The Power of Three and invoke the Halliwell Matriarchs. It didn't matter if one of them was hurt or if they didn't have their powers. That's not what made them the Charmed Ones (just extras)--it was that connection as sisters allowing them to access The Power of Three. Unless they weren't in the same room, so they couldn't hold hands or one of them was unconscious or struck mute and couldn't speak, they didn't need to use their powers at all.
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Post by Esmeralda on Mar 20, 2009 12:45:06 GMT -5
None of those powers were needed no matter if they were active powers or not. They just had to be The Charmed Ones--three sisters descended from Melinda Warren. As such, they had access to The Power of Three, the most powerful connection ever. Add that to the powers of the Warren Matriarchs and the Hollow/Source didn't stand a chance! You mean that the Source didn't have a chance. It's interesting how this show views power as brute force. I can only wonder if the sisters had the brains to think of another way to vanquish the Source without brute force. Of course not. Just like in "Kill Billie, Vol 2." There was no need to take in the Hollow. They just needed to use this same spell--IF they still wanted to murder fellow witches. But naturally, a male like Kern preferred brute strength which uses lots of (bad) special effects than something like simply holding hands and chanting a spell... That's the sort of thing that happened when the show became more male-centric--even the sisters were more "male", preferring to fight than use other methods. Ditto for true males, like Leo or Chris or Gideon who also shouldn't have. |
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Post by ljones on Mar 20, 2009 22:30:53 GMT -5
He tried to tell her, but the Source's essence inside him, interfered. I'm still wondering why Old Phoebe didn't bother to say anything.
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Post by marienomad on Mar 21, 2009 9:36:03 GMT -5
In Season Five and after that, I haven't seen any signs of Phoebe actually caring about Cole.
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Post by Esmeralda on Mar 21, 2009 13:32:57 GMT -5
Nope, me neither.
Ditto for Cole--no love, just obsession. And that's definitely not love.
In both situations it's why I wish the last time we had seen Cole was when he was originally vanquished as the Source, when we saw Phoebe truly mourn him.
Had she then not started going after slampieces (Jason) so soon after Cole was gone, then I'd believe that yes, she truly loved Cole, but as is, no, just like I don't believe that Piper truly loved Leo when she went after Greg the fireman so soon after Leo was gone.
The only sister who truly showed her love was Prue, who was still mourning Andy a ful half-season after he was gone.
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