ljones
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Post by ljones on Oct 1, 2009 15:54:18 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't understand that either. Frankly, I blame the Seer for manipulating Cole, I blame the Source for possessing Cole and I blame Cole for falling into their trap.
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Post by dylan345 on Oct 2, 2009 15:44:39 GMT -5
True. The Seer and the Source started the whole thing, but even when Cole wanted help he didn't ask for it. I guess it could be argued that the posession was too strong, even though there were times when he seemed pretty in control.
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Post by marienomad on Oct 2, 2009 21:43:58 GMT -5
I blame a certain dim witted whitelighter who was too busy trying to start a family with Piper to notice that his friend is being possessed by evil.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Oct 3, 2009 12:31:05 GMT -5
I'm afraid that he was possessed by the Source by that time.
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Post by dylan345 on Oct 3, 2009 20:20:23 GMT -5
And that possession was probably very strong, but it didn't completely take him over right away. And in the episode with the wizard, he was getting ready to give it all up, willingly.
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Post by Parklicious on Oct 4, 2009 9:20:28 GMT -5
it was the Seer's fault INDEED If that @#$# bish didnt came along at all they would be happy together now and had kids  Cole did wanted to be good! and he could have been good.. danm it  |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Oct 5, 2009 15:39:39 GMT -5
Even if Cole had managed to be "good", he still would have had trouble. No one can stay good 24/7. The Charmed Ones managed to prove that themselves. Yet, I suspect that Kern would have expected us to forgive or forget their transgressions and use Cole's transgressions as excuse for the sisters to believe that he has completely turned "evil" again.
All Cole had to do was screw up once . . . and the Halliwells would have used his past to cast him out for good, even if the Source and the Seer had not messed with him.
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Post by Quadquetra on Jan 20, 2010 21:08:04 GMT -5
It was The Seer but I think after Phoebe was blessed enough to get her love back like Cole came back in the S5 premiere she should have tried to make it work, she made it seem like he choose evil which he didnt.
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pixiesunbelle
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Post by pixiesunbelle on Jan 26, 2010 18:31:01 GMT -5
I would say it was the Seer's fault... The Seer and the old Source are to blame. Cole didn't help matters by agreeing to use the Hollow in order to help the Halliwells in the first place. This is why I think he should have been made a whitelighter or stripped permanently of his powers by the Elders. Cole did a good action worthy of a reward. Instead he punished permanently because he decided that Phoebe and her sisters were more important than himself. I loved Cole's character but I really hate what the writers did to him in the end. |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Jan 27, 2010 17:08:29 GMT -5
Why on earth would Cole have to become a whitelighter or a human? Why should those be considered as rewards? I see no reason why he cannot remain half-human and half-demon . . . and still help the sisters.
What is it about this series that it portrays its characters based upon their species?
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pixiesunbelle
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Post by pixiesunbelle on Feb 2, 2010 17:26:24 GMT -5
Why on earth would Cole have to become a whitelighter or a human? Why should those be considered as rewards? I see no reason why he cannot remain half-human and half-demon . . . and still help the sisters. What is it about this series that it portrays its characters based upon their species? I have quite a Biblical impression on things such as demons being a Christian. I have always equated demons with evil. However, Cole proved that he can't not fall into manipulation with his powers ultimately. Cole is easy prey to evil because of his species even though he has performed sacrifices for the sisters. That's why I envision giving him some type of reward to help him out in return. If he becomes a whitelighter then he has the ability to help more than just the sisters; however I do not see Cole accepting this or Phoebe approving after what Piper and Leo went through. As for becoming human; that just didn't work out too well either. Making him some sort of neutral protector would probably be the best option. In essence, I think Cole got the short end of the stick. He did do so many good things and still got vanquished and then banished. It seems quite sad to me. |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Feb 4, 2010 10:59:23 GMT -5
I don't. I equate all living things as 50% good and 50% evil. And this is the problem I have with the show. It never learned to rise above what I consider to be a third grade morality. I don't believe in judging others based upon what they are, instead of who they are.
The Halliwells are easy to prey to evil because of their species, as well. Humans can easily be monsters just as much as "demons".
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pixiesunbelle
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Post by pixiesunbelle on Feb 5, 2010 11:31:01 GMT -5
I don't consider my religion third grade morality. I have been taught that demons are evil and humans have the choice. In my religion, demons are fallen angels that were cast out of heaven with Lucifer. Hence why I believe they are evil. I do agree that humans are easy prey to evil as well. |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Feb 5, 2010 22:29:44 GMT -5
Well . . . it looks as if we have different religious beliefs. Don't we?
Perhaps that's why I never stuck with this show to the end.
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pixiesunbelle
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Post by pixiesunbelle on Feb 6, 2010 14:12:45 GMT -5
Well . . . it looks as if we have different religious beliefs. Don't we? Perhaps that's why I never stuck with this show to the end. yup, we do. |
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Piper3
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Post by Piper3 on Nov 9, 2010 0:24:51 GMT -5
I guess I'm just wondering how it could possibly be Phoebe's fault that Cole was the Source. Did she force the powers into him in an episode I missed? I'm really wondering why. To answer what you are wondering, the reason I felt that it could have been Phoebes fault was because in the episode We're Off To See The Wizard or something like that Cole was giving up the sources powers but Phoebe told him not to. So I guess it wasn't her fault but I think that she could have stopped him but she basically pushed him to it. |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Nov 9, 2010 14:16:39 GMT -5
Actually, what Phoebe and the Seer did was kill the wizard before Cole could give him the Source's powers. After the wizard was killed, Cole was stuck with the Source's powers and the Source's essence inside him.
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Piper3
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Post by Piper3 on Nov 9, 2010 16:17:07 GMT -5
No Cole was in the process of giving up his powers but Phoebe and the Seer killed the wizard.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Apr 13, 2011 8:23:57 GMT -5
I saw this being discussed at a different site and found some opinions that made me think: POSTER ONE: No, it's not Phoebe's fault. She helped push him over, but he was the one who kept coming back. No one likes a stalker. He made the choice to continue to stalk her even after she said no.
Many murders are done because lovers break up and the one who is turned down won't let her/his lover go to someone else. That's not the fault of the one who turned the person down; it's the fault of the murderer.
Phoebe had made it clear that she was done with Cole many times. He should've respected her decision rather than continuing to stalk - the reason why I would've preferred him staying dead after the vanquish in S4 and hate what was done to both Cole and Phoebe in S5. But his final downfall was his own fault, especially because he made the choice to go to a world where Paige was dead rather than a world where when Phoebe asked him to become mortal he refused so he never became the Source. He made the wrong choice; it was his own fault.
In the same way, it wasn't Cole's fault that Phoebe turned evil in S4. She made that choice herself. And it was her fault to use her anger at herself for turning evil to treat Cole the way she did.
I hate the show constantly putting the blame where it truly doesn't belong. It's both of their faults for making their own choices and that doesn't absolve either of them. (Later on - POSTER TW0:) So would you say that Cole is an evil character or a tragic character? POSTER THREE: I say he's a bit of both. I always liken Phoebe and Cole's relationship to that of Heathcliff and Catherine in Wuthering Heights. Like Heathcliff, Cole was definitely a tragic figure and had been wronged more than once, but also like Heathcliff he used his personal tragedies as an excuse to be a real bastard at times. There are times when you just have to own your behavior and not make excuses anymore, and while Cole might have been possessed and arguably not in his right mind for much of season four I'm of the opinion that he was at his most unforgivable in season five when he had no excuses beyond self-centered obsession. POSTER ONE: I agree with you totally - and as I said before you can say the absolutely same thing about Phoebe - she also shouldn't have used her own guilt over becoming the Queen of the Underworld to torture Cole rather than try to help him.
I will always wish that we had never seen him in S5 or S7, that when we saw Piper and Paige comforting Phoebe, that would've been the last we'd seen of Cole Turner.
It would've been a much more beautiful, much more tragic story that way. In both cases - AMEN! |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Apr 14, 2011 1:41:19 GMT -5
Cole, like the Halliwells, Leo and many other beings - supernatural or not - was an easy prey to evil because he was a sentient being with both good and evil within him.
I wish that Kern had allowed the sisters to realize that Cole had been possessed by the Source. It would have allowed them to face their own flaws and bigotry. And perhaps it would have allowed them to develop a more mature and complex outlook on moral compass before the series ended.
I would describe the Halliwells and Leo in the same manner, looking at some of their actions over the years. They were no better than Cole.
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