Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920 
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 23, 2009 23:43:51 GMT -5
You're right. Phoebe could've/should've grown up compared to how she was at the beginning of the series. But that's part of our point--just like Piper, she didn't. She never learned from her lessons. With a few minor exceptions here and there, it was still all about her. I wouldn't call that growing up.
Yes, after what she went through with Cole, she couldn't be the same carefree Phoebs who we knew and loved in the first couple of seasons. That's how she could've grown up. But the episodes with Drake, even the slight glimpses of her with Billie or little Wyatt show that given the correct situation, she could still be that warm, caring person, who wanted to help others, not just herself and was interested in something more than just finding the sperm donor for her daughter, which is what she was mainly interested in during S7 & S8.
Getting to see my Phoebs, but a grownup Phoebs, is why "Show Ghouls" is one of my all-time favorite episodes, the last episode to be put in that category.
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Post by dylan345 on Sept 24, 2009 12:10:32 GMT -5
I agree. I think of Phoebe as having two sides: with one side, I can talk to her and be her friend. With the other, I can't. I do want her to progress past the way we first saw her, but to keep her better qualities in the process, and not become a completely different person.
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 24, 2009 12:23:07 GMT -5
Exactly correct, which is why my siggy gives the only explanation that I can come up with for those differences: (copying my siggy here so that that line will still make sense when I change my siggy)  LIKE A CHARACTER LOBOTOMY, courtesy of Brad Kern!I miss our snarky Piper who cared about innocents more than herself, our smart Paige who had graduated from college and should've been a social worker and our sweet Phoebs who loved magic more than sex! Did they miss Prue! Me, too! ETA: (Thanks to the wonderfully talented Primrose_Empath for the perfect signature!) Until they grew up more, none of these women should've had kids, especially magical ones. |
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Post by patmos on Sept 30, 2009 1:16:58 GMT -5
Like others said, I don't mind having Kids around the show as long as they don't take away so much from the sisters. I mean the Wyatt thing is totally uber and absurd! Making him all powerful meant that the CHARMED ONES, the most powerful Witches to ever walk this earth are nothing compared to this brat! They could have made new stories out of it and exploring the roots of Witchcraft, but they didn't Brad Kern really messed up my fave TV show after S3! Well S4 I can deal with it but the rest not much. I still prefer S1-S3.
It's just a matter of creativity on the writers part! Exploring but still keeping the roots of the show which is about 3 Sisters who happen to be Witches!
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Post by dylan345 on Sept 30, 2009 13:18:01 GMT -5
I agree. I felt like I was watching a kid's show watching Wyatt playing with his powers all the time, making dragons come to life and what have you. At least when silly things like that happened with the sisters, the show was still about adults.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Oct 1, 2009 15:56:15 GMT -5
I blame the writers, not Rose McGowan. Rose did a great job in Season 4. But from Season 5 onward, Kern and his writers were determined to portray Paige as the ditzy youngest sister. Stupid move on their part and it didn't encourage Rose to give a good performance.
Yes, I think that was a mistake, as well.
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Post by marienomad on Oct 2, 2009 3:56:04 GMT -5
I'm a little surprised that they didn't use the kids to introduce other magical creatures like Santa and the Tooth Fairy.
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Post by Assassin Witch on Oct 2, 2009 11:02:34 GMT -5
I'm a little surprised that they didn't use the kids to introduce other magical creatures like Santa and the Tooth Fairy. ROTFLMAO But everyone knows those aren't real. Come on now. Be realistic wit this show.  |
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Post by dylan345 on Oct 2, 2009 15:42:55 GMT -5
Ljones: I totally agree about Rose. I wouldn't be able to take my job even the slightest amount seriously if I had to say half the lines she did.
marienomad: Well, if they did introduce Santa or the tooth fairy, we know they would be invited to P3 for drinks at the end of the episode, just like the nymph and ogre in that one episode in season six.
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ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
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Post by ljones on Oct 3, 2009 12:33:44 GMT -5
You want her to keep her better qualities? No one is like that. Whether we develop, regress or remain stagnant; all of us will have both positive and negative qualities. It's all about whether others can tolerate those negative qualities. And let's face it. Most Phoebe-bashers cannot tolerate her negative qualities.
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Post by dylan345 on Oct 3, 2009 20:18:10 GMT -5
Well, in the beginning, I liked to watch both Phoebe's negative and positive qualities. Towards the end, I didn't like to watch either. I'm simply stating which Phoebe I prefer. I would rather the writing be unrealistic and have her stay more the same as she was in the first half of the show than have her change. I don't care if it would really happen that way, or make the show less interesting.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 11:33:44 GMT -5
The Brood of Brats we saw at the end of Forever Charmed was the worst thing that could even happen to Charmed. You want to know what really helped sink the Charmed Sons, it was that. Suddenly, it wasn't just Wyatt and Chris anymore. It was Wyatt and Chris and Mystery Girl and Ladybug and blah-de-blah blah. It was the Brady Bunch with magic.
You know who really got f*cked here, the Fan Fictions writers (and this includes the comics and e-books). Suddenly, the Charmed Sons mutated into the Next Generation. What can these poor writer do? Canon dictates that the Brood of Brats exist, so they have to include them.
There are only two possible way outs of this trap:
1. Do what I have done and build your spin off around fringe characters (Rex and Hannah for me) that know the Halliwell family, but aren't related to them.
2. Go the AU route (Season Eight never happened, for example).
However, for those that want to write about the Charmed Ones in the canonverse, well, they're stuck with the bad hand that Brad Kern dealt them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 12:02:06 GMT -5
The Brood of Brats we saw at the end of Forever Charmed was the worst thing that could even happen to Charmed. You want to know what really helped sink the Charmed Sons, it was that. Suddenly, it wasn't just Wyatt and Chris anymore. It was Wyatt and Chris and Mystery Girl and Ladybug and blah-de-blah blah. It was the Brady Bunch with magic. You know who really got f*cked here, the Fan Fictions writers (and this includes the comics and e-books). Suddenly, the Charmed Sons mutated into the Next Generation. What can these poor writer do? Canon dictates that the Brood of Brats exist, so they have to include them. There are only two possible way outs of this trap: 1. Do what I have done and build your spin off around fringe characters (Rex and Hannah for me) that know the Halliwell family, but aren't related to them. 2. Go the AU route (Season Eight never happened, for example). However, for those that want to write about the Charmed Ones in the canonverse, well, they're stuck with the bad hand that Brad Kern dealt them. Tell me about it.  I hated the Twice-Blessed crap, but otherwise, I could deal with Wyatt and Chris. Yes, it's a little sad that Piper didn't have the daughter from "Morality Bites," but it's also sad that Prue didn't live to see 2009. Things change, and with better writing, Wyatt and Chris could've been great characters. The whole Brood of Brats that were forced onto us in "Forever Crap," on the other hand, are a big NO. All they did was turn the sisters into brood mares and ruin the Charmed Sons. After all, how can Wyatt and Chris be so special anymore when Phoebe has a half-Cupid Power of Three? And, that's not even getting into Mystery Girl and the possibility of her being a token younger sister... |
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Post by lilchi7212 on Sept 2, 2015 16:45:12 GMT -5
You gotta remember Melinda Warren back in Season 1 did see the Charmed Ones descendents.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 18:02:52 GMT -5
Yeah, as I said, they really sunk us. Now, you can say that Paige and Henry's kids were adopted, and thus fully human (FC never specified their status). That would eliminate them from having any powers. However, the same can't be said for the brats of Phoebe and Mr. Cardboard. Even making Mystery Girl one of those sprogs does not eliminate the fact that she's there. Wyatt and Chris were simply no longer unique.
Yeah, Wyatt and Chris. She never specified how MANY descendants.
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Post by West on Sept 3, 2015 2:17:27 GMT -5
Yeah she never was specific, she did say many more generations. So it may not just been the charmed ones children, could have been much further, who knows.
Personally I'd have prefered just one Halliwell having a child at series end, or just one of them pregnant with their first child. We should of just had the charmed ones with no children, or Piper as shes the only one who did during the series. Or they could of delayed Piper's first pregnancy until season 6 when Holly was pregnant, and instead season 5 been about Phoebe and her son. Season 6 been the season where Piper has her first and only child born on the series instead. If we had to have children, just stick with one and Piper having Melinda, while Phoebe has her son story in season 5.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 13:11:54 GMT -5
Yeah, as I said, they really sunk us. Now, you can say that Paige and Henry's kids were adopted, and thus fully human (FC never specified their status). That would eliminate them from having any powers. However, the same can't be said for the brats of Phoebe and Mr. Cardboard. Even making Mystery Girl one of those sprogs does not eliminate the fact that she's there. Wyatt and Chris were simply no longer unique. The only thing I can think of for Phoebe and Cardboard's kids is that Cardboard gave up his powers before any of them were conceived (so they aren't part-Cupid) and that Phoebe miscarried the last one (so no new Power of Three). As for Paige and Henry, Paige was internally damaged after 5 years of demon-fighting (like Piper was said to be in Season 4) and was unable to conceive any kids, and both she and Henry wanted to give other kids the same opportunity that they both had, so they adopted Henry Jr. and the twins. Their kids are all 100% human and non-magical. As for Mystery Girl, she's either a cousin or a visiting friend. Wyatt and Chris are Piper and Leo's only children, period. If you want to try to put together a Charmed Sons spinoff from canon, that's really the only way to do it. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 18:22:41 GMT -5
Works for me. That way, Wyatt and Chris still have their cousins, but said cousins have no powers, and therefore cannot be of any help.
Besides, that flash forward showed ONLY Wyatt and Chris, no one else.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 19:32:01 GMT -5
Works for me. That way, Wyatt and Chris still have their cousins, but said cousins have no powers, and therefore cannot be of any help. Besides, that flash forward showed ONLY Wyatt and Chris, no one else. Then, that's perfect. I just made sense of Kern's sh!tty writing. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 23:55:03 GMT -5
Well, somebody has to do it. Clearly Kern couldn't be bothered. Amazing how many of his messes we fans have to clean up.
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I hated the Twice-Blessed crap, but otherwise, I could deal with Wyatt and Chris. Yes, it's a little sad that Piper didn't have the daughter from "Morality Bites," but it's also sad that Prue didn't live to see 2009. Things change, and with better writing, Wyatt and Chris could've been great characters.
