ljones
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Post by ljones on Sept 7, 2015 4:15:02 GMT -5
I never had a problem with any of the sisters becoming parents. I found that idea a lot better than them stuck as the same women when the series first began. The problem is that Kern didn't handle his portrayal of Piper's sons very well.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2015 11:45:02 GMT -5
My problem was with the message it seemed to send: A woman can never be happy or fulfilled unless she marries and becomes a breeding machine. This was 2006, not 1956.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Sept 16, 2015 21:05:38 GMT -5
My problem was with the message it seemed to send: A woman can never be happy or fulfilled unless she marries and becomes a breeding machine. This was 2006, not 1956. And I find this idea that women can only be empowered if they remain single and childless. What is with these extremes? Why does it have to be one thing or the other? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2015 23:26:54 GMT -5
But Charmed already had the married woman with children, Piper. Would it have killed them to leave one of the other two sisters single.
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Post by erikamarie on Sept 17, 2015 2:05:37 GMT -5
As ljones I don't care if all three sisters'll have children, I care about the uniqueness of the Poewr of the Three
If the Power of Three is not a unique and once in a lifetime event, waited for 300 years, the magic of the bond between sisters vanishes, the whole story loses importance
I can hold onto the logic and the episodes of the series:
-Something Wicca This Way Comes, Phoebe: I'm serious. She practiced powers. Three powers. She could move objects with her mind, see the future and stop time. Before Melinda was burned at the stake, she vowed that each generation of Warren witches would become stronger and stronger, culminating in the arrival of three sisters. (They walk to Piper's car.) Now, these sisters would be the most powerful witches the world has ever known. They're good witches and I think we're those sisters.
- The Truth Is Out There And It Hurts Prue: Yeah. We inherited our powers from Mum and Grams.
Andy: So, when you have kids...?
Prue: If they’re girls... yes.
-The Witch Is Back, Melinda: I see the future. Many more generations of my beautiful daughters. I see my dreams fulfilled. Oh, thank you for that.
-Heartbreak City, Cupid: Drazi took my ring. It's my powers, how I get in
.....................
Cupid: Well, I need the ring to get back. I mean, unless you can get me another one but the problem is I need it to get back to them.
Prue: Wait, you're stuck here?
Cupid: No, actually, you can help me get back home. One more potion, some well-chosen words from the Charmed Ones and I'm on my way. (to Phoebe) Care to help me with that potion?
-The Day The Magic Died:
Cronyn: Oh, I have waited a life time for this.
Stanley: The Aurora Borealis is a rare sight indeed, sir.
(Stanley throws the wood onto the fire.)
Cronyn: It's much more than that. Two centuries ago when I became an apprentice, I devoted my life to sorcery and the black arts. And do you know why?
Stanley: No, sir.
Cronyn: In the hope that an ancient prophecy, which my mentor kept hidden, would one day come to pass.
Stanley: Has it?
Cronyn: Well, look up. The signs are converging. The future of all magic hangs in the balance. And only I know it.
-
hoebe: What happened to magic?
(No answer.)
...................
Paige: Answer the lady's question.
Merrill: Centuries ago, I unearthed a quatrain from the tomb of a wise apothecary. "When three planets burn as one over a sky of dancing light, and magic will rest for a holy day to welcome a twice blessed child."
Paige: Those are the signs that we saw. The Aurora Borealis, the planetary alignment, the wiccan Sabbath.
Forever Charmed
Old Piper: And heartaches over the years, we’re a family of survivors and we will always be. Which is why we’ve truly been Charmed.
Piper is talking about their life and their unique power, their power born from their lineage, Wyatt's magic comes from a magical day, not from his lineage or his parenta
As it is said in the Book of Shadows, they are the culmination of the magic of Warren and Melinda told she was able to see generations of her beautiful daughters: beautiful daughters, not a series of Charmed One
Prue said that in her family only the girls'ld be witches: if she was right, Henry Jr's problem is taken care
Chris is different and not because he is the son of a Charmed One and a whitekighterl - is the same, Elder is only a hierarchical title- but because his birth is necessary to humanize the enormous magic of Wyatt
Backtrack to Phoebe's girls, I can't think they could inherit powers from a ring: the cupid of season 2 was powerless without his ring and Coop too, it's Phoebe to recover him after Dumain stole the ring
If the uniqueness of the Power of Three was safe, they'ld have all the children they wish
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2015 10:46:18 GMT -5
Erikamarie, you're assuming that Kern and his writers had half an idea about the show continuity. I mean they had Paige ask how the Source was vanquished the first time and she was there, BOTH TIMES!
If they couldn't remember that fact from their own era, do you honestly think they would remember facts established in the Connie Burge era.
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Post by erikamarie on Sept 17, 2015 14:38:34 GMT -5
I look at the show, I'm not concerned with the writers
They were blumbering, with very good ideas often wasted
Now there is more professionalism, a generation of good writers champs at the bit to write for TV series, while once they wanted only to write for movies
The quality is increasing by leaps and bounds, now the mistakes and the naivety of Charmed couldn't exist
But I still like the show, the sisters, women less perfect and more alive than those of Once Upon a Time, for example
I'm not a great fan of Burge, particularly after the mess she did in Ally McBeal:of course they'ld do a better job butI don't root for none of them
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2015 17:28:35 GMT -5
As I have said, I think that part of the problem was that the two men in overall charge, Aaron Spelling and E. Duke Vincent, came of age in the 1950's. That may explain why the writers, who had to answer to these men, wrote like it was still the Eisenhower Administration. This may be one of the reasons Charmed has slipped from the radar since its ending in 2006, the concepts, like that silly black and white morality, made it seem like a relic of a bygone era.
Compare that to Buffy, created and ran by Joss Whedon, a Generation X person (he was born in 1964). He had ideas and values that the modern audiences knew. This is no doubt why Buffy and Angel, despite being over longer than Charmed was, are still very much present in Social Media and such.
I never watched Ally McBeal, so I can't offer an opinion on this.
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Post by Chrisaholic on Sept 18, 2015 14:11:39 GMT -5
If these were limited on the only ones we saw on TV, meaning Wyatt and Chris. These two were established characters, the others just maybe. We don't know. The comics are a way to introduce them but show is show, and there were only the boys.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 17:20:49 GMT -5
Exactly. Wyatt and Chris were the only ones really established. They had a story, they had character, they had names!
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Post by erikamarie on Sept 22, 2015 12:59:43 GMT -5
The story of the Charmed One for me is only what I watched on tv, I didn't read the books or the comicis, as a rule I am disappointed by those stories
If Piper talked about the surprise and the joy of having a daughter,reluctantly I'ld bear with this news, but she only told of her restaurant, a good thing for her that loves so much to cook: a restaurant not a daughter
I was relieved that the next generation was represented only by Wyatt and Chris and not by a multitude of cousins
I tried to read some fanfic with "Melinda" and, as I foresaw, the poor girl was or unbearably wise or a boring know-it-all or a cocky source of troubles
Those who like Melinda's idea could do as Storygirl, her Melinda is the only child of Morality Bites,in her story the different plane of time crisscrossed
Recalling the words of Mrs. Jenkins, Melinda'ld be not a witch, no powers, no magic:in this case, it would be logical that Melinda developped a different life apart from her brothers
I'ld like Melinda who moves to New York to become a chef or working as doctor for Doctors Without Borders or, if she had her aunt Paige's artistic temperament, going to Florence to study fine arts, free standing and peacefully far away from magic
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Post by sol on Sept 22, 2015 15:50:20 GMT -5
The story of the Charmed One for me is only what I watched on tv, I didn't read the books or the comicis, as a rule I am disappointed by those stories If Piper talked about the surprise and the joy of having a daughter,reluctantly I'ld bear with this news, but she only told of her restaurant, a good thing for her that loves so much to cook: a restaurant not a daughter I was relieved that the next generation was represented only by Wyatt and Chris and not by a multitude of cousins I tried to read some fanfic with "Melinda" and, as I foresaw, the poor girl was or unbearably wise or a boring know-it-all or a cocky source of troubles Those who like Melinda's idea could do as Storygirl, her Melinda is the only child of Morality Bites,in her story the different plane of time crisscrossed Recalling the words of Mrs. Jenkins, Melinda'ld be not a witch, no powers, no magic:in this case, it would be logical that Melinda developped a different life apart from her brothers I'ld like Melinda who moves to New York to become a chef or working as doctor for Doctors Without Borders or, if she had her aunt Paige's artistic temperament, going to Florence to study fine arts, free standing and peacefully far away from magic I like it! I understand why many think that the girl of the flash forward 'ld be Melinda but it's out of canon, no one told who she was But if I had to accept Melinda I'ld like she was a normal girl,maybe a doctor as her father wished to become, with her own story,away from magic |
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Post by Assassin Witch on Sept 22, 2015 21:58:01 GMT -5
As for Mystery Girl, she's either a cousin or a visiting friend. Wyatt and Chris are Piper and Leo's only children, period. The "epilogue" never actually stated anything. So, I don't care what Kern said afterward. That little girl with the boys? That was "Ladybug" to me. And no one can make me think otherwise. I also just always ignore epilogues (Harry Potter, The Hunger Games....) it's not part of the actual story. It's outside of the story. And it makes no sense to me. Especially for the three sisters to each have three children? Gag me. When it comes to Paige, I just cannot see her having kids. She's a great aunt. But social work is where I see her. Helping the kids. Maybe fostering some for a short period before the parents can get their crap together and/or a relative can pick up the kid, but I don't see her having her own. I just cannot wrap my head around anything with that awful epilogue. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2015 23:25:40 GMT -5
Works for me.
I don't think it makes sense to many Charmed fans. I have said, it could have been left on the cutting room floor and nothing significant would be missing.
Believe me, Jackie, you're not alone here.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2015 23:27:39 GMT -5
The "epilogue" never actually stated anything. So, I don't care what Kern said afterward. That little girl with the boys? That was "Ladybug" to me. And no one can make me think otherwise. I also just always ignore epilogues (Harry Potter, The Hunger Games....) it's not part of the actual story. It's outside of the story. And it makes no sense to me. Especially for the three sisters to each have three children? Gag me. When it comes to Paige, I just cannot see her having kids. She's a great aunt. But social work is where I see her. Helping the kids. Maybe fostering some for a short period before the parents can get their crap together and/or a relative can pick up the kid, but I don't see her having her own. I just cannot wrap my head around anything with that awful epilogue. I agree with everything you've said. I've never liked epilogues in general, especially of the "Babies Ever After" variety that Harry Potter and Charmed forced onto people. All these kinds of flash-forwards do is reduce stories to being about nothing more than marriage and babies (as if that was what the Harry Potter books were always about  ). The "Forever Crap" flash-forward, however, was just the cherry on top to an already horrible episode in a horrible season. I have never seen a more clichéd, sappy, unrealistic, offensively bad piece of writing in my life, and that's saying a lot for this show! How did they ever allow this past the editing room, let alone in front of the camera? Was there really NO quality control at all behind this show? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2015 23:37:35 GMT -5
Kern wrote it, he was the Executive Producer, so that's how.
Besides, as I have said, the men Kern answered to, Spelling and Vincent, were hopelessly time locked into the 1950's. The flash forward reflected the TV shows of their youth, such as Leave It To Beaver and Ozzie and Harriet.
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Post by sol on Sept 29, 2015 12:05:54 GMT -5
The Brood of Brats we saw at the end of Forever Charmed was the worst thing that could even happen to Charmed. You want to know what really helped sink the Charmed Sons, it was that. Suddenly, it wasn't just Wyatt and Chris anymore. It was Wyatt and Chris and Mystery Girl and Ladybug and blah-de-blah blah. It was the Brady Bunch with magic. You know who really got f*cked here, the Fan Fictions writers (and this includes the comics and e-books). Suddenly, the Charmed Sons mutated into the Next Generation. What can these poor writer do? Canon dictates that the Brood of Brats exist, so they have to include them. There are only two possible way outs of this trap: 1. Do what I have done and build your spin off around fringe characters (Rex and Hannah for me) that know the Halliwell family, but aren't related to them. 2. Go the AU route (Season Eight never happened, for example). However, for those that want to write about the Charmed Ones in the canonverse, well, they're stuck with the bad hand that Brad Kern dealt them. Tell me about it. I hated the Twice-Blessed crap, but otherwise, I could deal with Wyatt and Chris. Yes, it's a little sad that Piper didn't have the daughter from "Morality Bites," but it's also sad that Prue didn't live to see 2009. Things change, and with better writing, Wyatt and Chris could've been great characters. The whole Brood of Brats that were forced onto us in "Forever Crap," on the other hand, are a big NO. All they did was turn the sisters into brood mares and ruin the Charmed Sons. After all, how can Wyatt and Chris be so special anymore when Phoebe has a half-Cupid Power of Three? And, that's not even getting into Mystery Girl and the possibility of her being a token younger sister... We saw three girls not three powerful witches or the new Charmed One Think at Witch_way_now Angel of Destiny: You three have accomplished something that few others ever dream of. By vanquishing the Source of all evil, you have fulfilled your shared destiny, much earlier than anticipated. Truth be told, some of us did think you'd never achieve it at all, but that's really beside the point If the achievable destiny of the Charmed One was vanquishing the Sorce, what purpose should have Phoebe's daughters? No one, not even the Angel of Destiny or Melinda has provided new Charmed One Angel of Destiny: Very well. (He starts to leave but stops.) By the way, thought you'd like to know, neither decision would've affected yours and Leo's personal destiny. Piper: What? Angel of Destiny: You'll find out soon. Wyatt was prophesied, part of the destiny of Piper and Leo, not a new set of Charmed One Even in Witches In Tights Ramus: I am an Elder and I can foresee the future enough of it anyway to give you a glimpse. If you're interested. Leo: Isn't that against the rules? Ramus: I'm retiring, what do I care? You can ask me one question and one question only. Leo: Will, uh, will our baby be healthy? Ramus: Yes, very healthy. And more powerful than you can even imagine. Nobody ever talked of powerfull girls so it's canon that Phoebe's daughters are only "beautiful daughters" as saw Melinda |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2015 0:23:49 GMT -5
Charmed never paid much attention to its own continuity. It really needed a Joss Whedon in charge.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2015 15:11:16 GMT -5
Charmed never paid much attention to its own continuity. It really needed a Joss Whedon in charge. Tell me about it. You'll drive yourself crazy trying to figure out this show's continuity. |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Sept 30, 2015 21:00:59 GMT -5
Does it really matter? Look, both Brad Kern and Constance Burge simply didn't handle the show's writing very well, as far as I'm concerned. Burge seemed unwilling to allow the show to move in different directions and a good number of bad continuity happened during her tenure. Kern tried to move the show in a different direction - which I will give him credit for - and screwed it up with bad writing and continuity. And I'm talking about with stuff other than the sisters'love lives and offspring.
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