Issues with piper

[misskitty66]

ljones said:

I wonder if any CHARMED fan really has what it takes to post an honest look at Piper's character - both the good and the bad.

lol there's plenty of us that can do just that ... piper was a good charater and she has very strong points. she was the oldest sister when prue died she was yes the heart of the family. she could be mean and she could be sweet. there was 2 other sisters in the last 4-8 seasons. and they were equally good. she was rough on paige when she came in cause she was the youngest, kinda like prue was with phoebe. prue had a nasty side too. she was rough on phoebe. but hey you know what i have one sister and one brother and the oldest takes on alot more than you realize. it's the oldest's responsiblity to make sure the rest of the group stays on track. it was my responsibility to keep my little sister in line. a very flusterating job. but as i said before my only trouble was that she seemed to be the roughest on leo. yes she loved him, but at times she did treat him as a possesion not a husband. and who ever called the sisters sl*** shame on you.

[piperhalliwell4eve]

I am a commited charmed/ Holly fan
Piper was my favorate sister on charmed i have nothing to say bad about she is obviusly a lot of peoples favorate.

PIPER RULZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[spiritsas]

misskitty66 said:

ljones said:

I wonder if any CHARMED fan really has what it takes to post an honest look at Piper's character - both the good and the bad.

lol there's plenty of us that can do just that ... piper was a good charater and she has very strong points. she was the oldest sister when prue died she was yes the heart of the family. she could be mean and she could be sweet. there was 2 other sisters in the last 4-8 seasons. and they were equally good. she was rough on paige when she came in cause she was the youngest, kinda like prue was with phoebe. prue had a nasty side too. she was rough on phoebe. but hey you know what i have one sister and one brother and the oldest takes on alot more than you realize. it's the oldest's responsiblity to make sure the rest of the group stays on track. it was my responsibility to keep my little sister in line. a very flusterating job. but as i said before my only trouble was that she seemed to be the roughest on leo. yes she loved him, but at times she did treat him as a possesion not a husband. and who ever called the sisters sl*** shame on you.

Misskitty, as well as others, makes some interesting points. Over the course of the 8 years, real time and on the show (which they often noted for veiwers), all the cast members grew into their roles, changing along the way. Though Prue was killed off, she did eventually warm up to Phoebe, as the big sister (playing the Mom role) does when she sees the more irresponsible baby of the family growing up and making better decisions.

We got to see Piper (as well acted by HMC) also grow up, over 8 years. We saw her have to take on the role as big sister and leader or matriarch of the family; get married, have children, and be as hard on Paige (to an extent) as Prue was on Phoebe. (Note Paige gets to play that same role with Billie in S8).

Point being is that they were fairly normal women of the 90's and 00's, in their 20's and 30's, living life, growing up, but having to deal with a major infringement (magic) on their lives. At times they didn't like it, as times they loved it. It was their growing into it (their abilities or powers), using them the way they did, while still trying to deal with the same everyday problems many us deal with all the time. So, if at times Piper was bossy or even bitchy, she was playing a typical oldest sister role in a real family. It's also interesting to note that when she went too far off the reservation, it was usually one of the other sisters who would step in and play the level-headed oldest sister role. We saw paige do that on several ocassions in the latter seasons and we saw Phoebe play the middle sister role between Piper and Paige issues.

It was done reasonably well, mimicing what most likely a lot of siblings go through with each other as they grow in maturity. Above it all, they would fight to the death for each other and protect each other and those around them, and that was an important message about the show.

[spiritsas]

PS To add: what we saw was the writers having a set of magically powerful, but still human, sisters, react to the pressures and issues of everyday life.

[vandergraafk]

I thought this was about Piper!

Piper's character, though not my favorite, was certainly an interesting one. When viewed as an entirety, through all 8 seasons, I find the evolution of her character quite interesting. In Something Wicca, she is the bubbly sister full of optimism. She is the least contented of the sisters with her new powers and the least confident that having these powers is in any way positive. These new powers threaten to upset the balance that Piper has found since the death of her Grams and undermine her ability to bring about a reconciliation between Prue and Phoebe.

The Piper in Season 8 is a much more jaded character who cuts immediately to the chase. She is not afraid to confront the Avatars or the Elders with respect to Leo. Nor does she shy away from taking over leadership of the sisters upon Prue's death. And, yes, she pushes Phoebe to accepting the obvious: the Charmed Ones will have to take on Billie and Christy.

Yes, Piper has a mean streak, if you want to call it that. Drake certainly did. So, too did others. However, I choose to see this not as meanness, but as the result of eight long years of constant battle, she became rather jaded. Cut to the chase, cut the crap. Whatever you call it, Piper didn't dance around an issue. That, probably more than anything else, leads fans to conclude that Piper was mean. She may have been gruff, but she really wasn't mean! She was perhaps over-protective of her family. But, isn't that understandable?

[spiritsas]

V- you are right. It is about Piper, but it's also about how the real character HMC grows into the role, as it changes, and as she changes. It also involves her sisters as they all directly affect each other, learn from each other and about each other. Especially Paige, who I know is your favorite, as the other two react to and learn about who she is. She is, after all, a stranger, who has been cast into their lives by destiny. Unlike the original three sisters who grew up together. A lot of good Charmed was written around this concept. The point being is that it's not truly possible to discuss Piper (or any of the sisters) without discussing their interactions and how they affect one another over the course of the seasons.

[vandergraafk]

Oh, I agree. We've already discussed what Lori Rom would or would not have brought to the role of Phoebe. An examination of the unaired pilot certainly suggests that she would not have easily fit into Charmed. Nor would the show have developed as pleasingly as it did, had Ms. Rom won the part.

I would like to add to whitelightertony's memorable moments with Piper. In Sam I Am, during a tough interview for a nanny position, Piper slaps Leo and practically snarls, "Whitelighters are such pessimists." When the darklighter attacks, of course, Piper reverts to her typical response, "Dammit", as she realizes her attempt to maintain some sort of decorum is undone once again.

Finally, maybe it's difficult to really state this, but I'll go for it nevertheless. I've had the impression that each of the actresses really enjoyed each other's company. I believe they generally enjoyed the roles they played and the lines they were given. (Yes, there were some exceptions.) True professionals, obviously, can bring about the appearance of camraderie, despite perhaps individual gripes. Certainly, though there may have been tension on the set during Season 3 between Alyssa and Shannen, I would argue that the show itself did not appear to suffer very much.

I would assert that the latter half of Season 8 some of this begins to break down. Paige/Rose seems less than enthused and perhaps rightly so. The Ultimate Battle scenario was very weak. Even Piper/Holly seems non-plussed at times. That's to be expected from actresses who have given a good portion of their lives to a project they firmly believed in, but whose efforts did not seem to be appreciated by a network that seemed to view the promotion of new projects as more important that nurturing existing ones.

[MarAcev]

That, probably more than anything else, leads fans to conclude that Piper was mean. She may have been gruff, but she really wasn't mean! She was a perhaps over-protective of her family. But, isn't that understandable?

I love Piper's character in it's entirety because the evolution from the shy and insecure girl that she was to the assertive, protective woman-mother that she became was IMO completely believable and understandable.

[apathysage]

I've noticed that, for me at least, I relate to Phoebe in that I'm a youngest sibling and have experienced similar situations. I think your position in your family has a definite impact on the way you intepret things. I never particularly related to Piper, she was just a very different sort of personality from me, until recently, when I lost my oldest brother. I think the way she reacts to the death and the writing immediately following it were accurate. I certainly experienced a great deal of anger and felt the need to hold myself together for my family, as she did.

[vandergraafk]

Sorry for your loss. And, yes, it is true that many of us relate to one character more than another. I'm a Paige head, but I can appreciate the character of Piper and Phoebe, too. I even like Prue to a certain extent.

[ljones]

Hey folks! Piper had her dark side as well. Why do we keep pretending that she didn't? To my surprise, I rather like Piper. I think I liked her even more during the show's last two or three years. But she was not perfect. What is this insistent belief that she was?

[MarAcev]

I never thought she was perfect. The fact that she wasn't made her more likeable to me. As I said, her evolution and even those character flaws that annoyed others were part of what made me like the character. Nobody is perfect, some flaws are just easier to digest than others.

[piperhalliwell4eve]

I think she is perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!

[vandergraafk]

I thought one of the many strengths of Charmed was that none of the sisters was perfect. None of them was a goody two-shoes. Each was conflicted in her own way as each individual personality affected her response to demonic threats.

[ljones]

vandergraafk said:

I thought one of the many strengths of Charmed was that none of the sisters was perfect. None of them was a goody two-shoes. Each was conflicted in her own way as each individual personality affected her response to demonic threats.

It's a shame that the writers never really learned how to exploit their flaws with really good stories.


So, what exactly are Piper's flaws?

[Piper3]

i dont know about that but
i can't believe you guys don't like piper
she is a fabulous person
of course she is going to be mean at time but that is normal
also she lost her mom her grandmom her big sister
what do u espect she wasnt going to be all nice and perky
and if it wasnt for her being able to be strong and the way she is i dont think many people would like her

[foxfire]

I love Piper. She's really, IMO, what saved the show and kept it going for so long (hello, seasons 5-6 had storylines revolving around her children). On top of that, Piper's pretty much the funniest character on Charmed. In season three, Prue was quite the funny one as was Phoebe. But once Prue died, Piper was the only one left to deliver the clever one liners (especially with the whole Phoebe/Cole stuff going on).

I do have this to say about Piper and how they wrote her character. Once Prue died, she became her. For the first few episodes of season four, Piper lost her innocence completely and stopped being the light comedian. She became far more pessimistic and took to the role as older sister. I'd also say they gave Piper all the parts where Prue would have been active (given the fact that Piper now had the kickass power).

[vandergraafk]

Piper had a tendency to shoot first, ask questions later. She obsessed about a lot of things. She was probably too over-protective of Wyatt. She was stubborn to the point where she refused to see what Paige clearly saw, i.e., that Cole had become possessed by evil again. Shje was highly opinionated, especially when it came to the Elders, a group she could collectively do largely without. She sometimes got very, very bossy around Leo.

None of these is a fatal flaw, but in combination they could be deadly. Obsessive, shoot first had its most egregious appearance in Hell Hath No Fury. And, who was more correct at the end of Kill Billie, Volume 2? Leo, who recoiled at Piper's attack on Billie? Or, Piper who let her rage get the better of her?

[edragon]

It's true, piper does let her anger get the best of her at most times. But to be honest, she had her reasons. I mean, she was the matriarch of the family. She had to be protective of Wyatt because demons kept coming after him, not to mention an elder. Piper also attack billie in Kill Billie Vol 2 because, well her sisters had just died. Ironiclly she's the one who always dies.

[MarAcev]

Leo, who recoiled at Piper's attack on Billie? Or, Piper who let her rage get the better of her?

Leo had no idea what had happened and what Piper had been through in the past 6 months. It's easier to be cool headed when you've been frozen for months...get it, cool headed?

All those instances you mentioned about Piper shooting first and asking questions later are a little difficult to judge given her emotional state. I can't really say that Piper was being typical Piper in Hell hath no fury.

She was probably too over-protective of Wyatt.

Only when she thought a demon would try to kidnap him and turn him evil...and guess what, they did. Show me a season 7 episode (other than Imaginary fiends) in which Piper is overprotective of Wyatt. Show me a season 8 episode in which she is.

Shje was highly opinionated, especially when it came to the Elders,

Only after they showed her how vindictive and manipulative they could be. Piper wasn't always anti elders. They earned her displeasure towards them.

She obsessed about a lot of things.

So did Prue and people find her "awesome". But to me, Piper being obsessive is in true Piper form. She was that way since season 1 and it's part of her charm.

She sometimes got very, very bossy around Leo.

That she did, although he didn't seem to mind much and she could also be very pleasing towards him.