spiritsas
Witch
Understand the message of Charmed
Posts: 1,149
|
Post by spiritsas on Jul 14, 2007 20:53:45 GMT -5
FF: I think they played the roles they were given. The Piper character had to take the big sister role and the Phoebe character suddenly was moved into the referee or middle sister role. It was done that way on purpose so they could introduce a new "baby" sister, who would now have to bond with her new found sisters, and would be getting into trouble as she learned the rules of her new life.
|
|
|
|
Post by MarAcev on Jul 17, 2007 12:31:54 GMT -5
Interestingly, after the Cole saga Piper had to take on the middle sister role once again when it was all Paige against Phoebe because of Cole. We saw it happened once again in season 6 when it was the same dynamic but now because of Richard and Paige. Piper was once again in the middle and telling Phoebe to back off or in season 8 telling Paige to back off when Phoebe was boy crazy over Dull Dex.
I completely agree. I understand that Piper didn't treat Paige very nicely at first but I could see where she was coming from. At the end of Hell hath no fury, she consciously decided to try to be nicer to Paige, given that it wasn't really her fault that Prue died or that she was her sister. After that episode, Piper was just a bit reluctant to open up to Paige and maybe a bit bossy, but that sure changed fast. They had a lot of very nice moments together once Paige moved in. She cooked for Paige (A Paige from the past) to make her feel better and even bigger, Paige was the one who knew about her problems conceiving before Phoebe or even Leo knew about it.
Their relationship became very sisterly quite quickly if you think about it whereas her relationship with Phoebe went sour fast as soon as Cole's demonic past got involved.
|
|
|
|
Post by vandergraafk on Jul 17, 2007 15:13:22 GMT -5
Yes, but there was the power struggle after the birth of Piper's son Wyatt. Paige, in an effort to relieve her sister of the burden of leading the Charmed Ones while Phoebe was staring at her navel, became superwitch and tried to lead the Charmed Ones. Piper resented this and fought back ticky-tack!
|
|
|
|
Post by MarAcev on Jul 17, 2007 16:05:59 GMT -5
Come on, that was a single episode and they resolved their issues right away. Never before the episode did we see this issue and never after the episode did it happen again. After all, Piper did make Paige Wyatt's godmother and used her last name as his middle name. That is huge for a sister that she didn't know existed and had trouble welcoming into her home just a year prior.
|
|
|
|
Post by whitelightertony on Jul 17, 2007 17:44:19 GMT -5
I also might add that it was Paige who ended up mediating (or at least, trying to) between Piper and Phoebe, after Phoebe made her choice to become Queen of the Underworld. Piper didn't even try to get Phoebe back onto the side of Good.
|
|
ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
|
Post by ljones on Jul 18, 2007 11:38:55 GMT -5
Despite Piper's little peace pipe moment at the end of "Hell Hath No Fury", she did continue to belittle Paige.
Considering the sisters' ludicrous belief that once you turn evil, there is no turning back, are you really surprised?
|
|
|
|
Post by MarAcev on Jul 18, 2007 19:57:43 GMT -5
Like when? Size matters? She was a little rude and she apologized for that. Enter the demon? Paige did a really stupid thing and deserved to be told a few things about responsabilities. A knight to remember? I don't see the mistreatment. Brain drain? Not seeing it either. Black as Cole, not even close. They were totally cool with each other by then and even playful together.
|
|
|
|
Post by whitelightertony on Jul 19, 2007 2:42:52 GMT -5
Not really. But I think Piper felt personally betrayed, because she felt it meant that Cole was more important to Phoebe than she was.
Paige was more open to the prospect of wooing Phoebe back to the Nexus, because Paige had known Piper and Phoebe for less than a year and, as someone who'd never had sisters before, for that reason Paige desperately wanted to avoid losing either of them.
|
|
ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
|
Post by ljones on Jul 19, 2007 10:17:19 GMT -5
What the hell did she expect? Was it a requirement that the sisters loved each other more than they did their repspective mates?
I think you should go beyond early Season 4.
And speaking of Piper, I'm surprised that no one bothered to bring up her actions in S2's "Awakened".
|
|
|
|
Post by foxfire on Jul 19, 2007 15:04:45 GMT -5
THERE'S a good example of something Piper did wrong. In "Awakened", it was very ironic that the one thing to really kill her (pretty much) would be something completely unrelated to demon fighting. She shouldn't have imported illegal fruit.
|
|
spiritsas
Witch
Understand the message of Charmed
Posts: 1,149
|
Post by spiritsas on Jul 19, 2007 15:20:17 GMT -5
FF: Besides SD and Charisma Carpenter (CC) in your banner, who are the other two women?
|
|
|
|
Post by MarAcev on Jul 19, 2007 16:29:10 GMT -5
And yet, how was it the elders' decision to let her die when what she did was legally wrong but had nothing to do with magic?
|
|
|
|
Post by foxfire on Jul 19, 2007 17:07:22 GMT -5
Piper was "supposed" to die because it had nothing to do with magic. Usually, Leo can intervene if it has to do with the affairs of the magical realm. Then again, I find it confusing the way they jumble things around with the rules of Leo's powers (he's not supposed to heal humans or heal regular run-of-the-mill cuts).
And since you asked, the other two are Kelly Rowland (of Destiny's Child fame) and Idina Menzel (dubbed the Queen of Broadway). Idina Menzel was also in a few movies like Rent (the musical she originally starred in on Broadway) and Ask the Dust.
|
|
ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
|
Post by ljones on Jul 20, 2007 11:05:31 GMT -5
And yet, how was it the elders' decision to let her die when what she did was legally wrong but had nothing to do with magic? Perhaps they felt that Piper was paying the consequences of her actions. |
|
|
|
Post by vandergraafk on Jul 20, 2007 13:10:34 GMT -5
As I have mentioned Awakened elsewhere with respect to the capriciousness of the Elders, I won't reprise my comments in their entirety. Yes, Piper, as many business owners are wont to do, chose to cut corners. Either she desperately needed the fruit and couldn't wait for it to pass inspection or she was presented with a cheaper alternative (though I can't imagine how smuggled fruit could be cheaper! Surely, the transaction costs are higher.) Nevertheless, she chose to cut corners.
The immediate consequence was the contraction of arroyo fever. That, in itself, would be a stiff enough penalty to pay were it not for the failure of her immune system to respond. That the Elders forbade Leo to heal her is not acceptable at all.
First, where is it written that the Elders are the judges of the behavior of witches. True, they may judge the actions of whitelighters and did so with respect to Leo both in this episode and later in The Seven Year Witch. But, as far as we know, the only body that can judge witches is the Tribunal. Nowhere do we learn that the Tribunal have instructed the Elders to forbid Leo from performing his magic.
Now, Leo chose to heal Piper just before the Angel of Death would make an appearance. Since Leo chose to violate whitelighter canon - to heal only when the injury resulted from warlock or demonic attack, he bore the responsibility and was promptly clipped of his wings. (Incidentally, Leo will violate this "prohibition" repeatedly and Natalie will take him to task for doing so in Blinded by the Whitelighter.)
That the Elders left the remaining Charmed Ones with no recourse but to cast the Awakening spell says more about the ill-advised prohibition of the Elders than it does about two unseasoned witches still learning their craft. Obviously, Prue and Phoebe are oblivious to the unintended consequences of their spell and the careless manner with which the poppit was discarded. Their reckless behavior caused arroyo fever to spread contagiously throughout the infectious disease ward.
For those trying to construe a destined meaning to Piper's brush with death from this episode would be advised to ponder again the episode. She was no more destined to die than she was to take advantage of illegally imported fruit. If any statement can be made, it might be this. Season 2, with all its meandering murkiness, regularly featured the sisters in death's embrace. The perils of Pauline might also describe this season. Let's see:
Phoebe near death in Morality Bites; Piper and Prue in the Painted World; Piper in Awakened, Prue in Apocalypse Not. Yes, the sisters would face death in other seasons, too. But, Season 2 is where it all began (ignoring the season ending cliffhanger Deja Vu).
|
|
|
|
Post by foxfire on Jul 20, 2007 15:47:23 GMT -5
I find that concerning seasons 1-2, the producers and writers were still kind of figuring out what Charmed was.
In season one, they introduced some kind of elaborate evil (that killed the demon Hannah) but they never got into its identity until season three/four (the Source, that is).
Instead of having this looming big bad through the first two seasons, they concentrated on small threats here and there (which I think was better than what they came up with after SD's departure).
The same can go for the Elders. We, like the Charmed Ones, were very much kept in the dark as to who the Elders are and in a way who whitelighters are. The only thing we knew was what Leo told us.
In a way, Piper's death was a consequence of the writers still unsure of what the Elders were. Season two was really a discovery period of seeing what they could do and that resulted in new powers, elaborate love triangles and even time travel.
|
|
ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
|
Post by ljones on Jul 20, 2007 17:33:29 GMT -5
Piper had died or nearly died because she purchased illegal fruit that harbored a disease. She had no one to blame but herself for what happened. It had nothing to do with magic or battling demons. Why on earth should the Elders interfere?
|
|
|
|
Post by foxfire on Jul 20, 2007 21:06:56 GMT -5
I think you're right that the Elders are merely there to take care of the magical order. It's not their fault if Piper catches a disease because of something she did illegally.
However she is a fighter for the good side of things, her dying would tip the scales TREMENDOUSLY to the side of evil. She puts her life at risk anytime she goes up against an evil, that wasn't exactly her ambition in life. They couldn't just let the Power of Three end. Sure, Prue and Phoebe would still fight on but they couldn't vanquish demons that needed the ever-so-famous "Power of Three Spells".
|
|
|
|
Post by whitelightertony on Jul 20, 2007 23:54:50 GMT -5
No. But from Piper's perspective, Phoebe was knowingly choosing Evil over her own family.
And I believe that was an accurate perspective. Phoebe was, essentially, walking out on her family.
I mean, seriously...do you really believe Phoebe had no idea she was about to become Queen of the Underworld when she teleported away at the end of "We're Off to See the Wizards."
|
|
ljones
Whitelighter
Posts: 4,123
|
Post by ljones on Jul 20, 2007 23:57:41 GMT -5
But Piper had knowingly committed an act of evil. She had succumbed to her greed and purchased fruit that she knew had not been inspected by the U.S. Customs. Granted, she didn't know that the fruit contained some bug that caused a disease. She still knew that the fruit had not been inspected. Which meant that she had almost knowingly endangered her customers . . . for profit.
|
|
