Issues with piper

[vandergraafk]

Tell me exactly how this is an act of EVIL? Piper broke the law. Perhaps pressed for product, Piper chose to use a connection to obtain fruit faster. As a result, she paid a steep price. She nearly lost her life and would have, if Leo hadn't intervened.

Piper was in no way responsible for the proliferation of arroyo fever throughout the infectious disease ward. That was the careless backfire and execution of a spell that the Elders, myopic as ever, practically forced upon the Charmed Two by forbidding Leo from healing Piper.

If breaking the law is EVIL, then I know I am bound for HADEs. I break the speed limit just about every day!

[Assassin Witch]

I'm confussed. How did Awakened appear here? Why is there an argument over the Elders and Piper.

Like vandergraafk said, how is this EVIL? God only knows how many people do the same thing Piper did. That's why it was in the show. She's HUMAN! She's a club owner. The fruit would serve as a good product for the club.

This was a non-magic event that turned to magic. Prue and Phoebe didn't want to lose their sister so they called Leo, who said he couldn't. Then the girls brought it upon themselves to reverse something non-magical. After others were infected, Piper told her sisters to reverse it because that's the type of person she is. She's GOOD. She did an illegal thing and paid for it. She was willing to die to make sure that those infected were going to be saved. How does that make Piper bad or anything?

How did this debate come about?

[vandergraafk]

Maybe because Awakened was just shown last week on the afternoon TNT cycle. Like you, I have NO IDEA!

[ljones]

Piper was in no way responsible for the proliferation of arroyo fever throughout the infectious disease ward. That was the careless backfire and execution of a spell that the Elders, myopic as ever, practically forced upon the Charmed Two by forbidding Leo from healing Piper.

How typical that you want to blame the Elders for mistakes committed by the sisters. I'm sorry Vandergraaftk, but the Charmed Ones were at fault, not the Elders.

It was Piper who knowingly purchased fruit that HAD NOT been inspected by U.S. Customs. If she had not given in to her greed, she would not have become infected by Arroyo Fever. If Prue and Phoebe had not used magic to cure Pipe - which they should NOT have done in the first place - the infection would have spread throughout the ward.

And you want to blame the Elders because they didn't allow Leo to heal Piper? Why should they heal Piper? She brought this mess upon herself. She had to pay the price for HER actions.

Like vandergraafk said, how is this EVIL? God only knows how many people do the same thing Piper died.

Because out of her own GREED, Piper was willing to expose foreign-grown fruit that had not been inspected by the U.S. Customs. She really had no idea whether that fruit was safe or not. And because she willingly broke the law, that tells me that she didn't care.

[vandergraafk]

Let's suppose for a moment that the Elders knew that Piper would die from arroyo fever, a disease that for most people is not fatal. How silly it would be for the Elders to teach Piper a lesson by allowing her to die. If you recall, the original reason for me to bring this up was to talk about the capriciousness of the Elders. And, that point has been amply demonstrated.

Now, suppose they didn't know that Piper was at risk of dying. Once they learned that her death was imminent, shouldn't the Elders have allowed Leo to heal Piper for the greater good? Again, the fact that they punished Leo indicated their own lack of vision and foresight. Besides, is it really acceptable to embrace disproportionate penalty for a minor infraction? That's the kind of logic which allowed the American war machine to destroy an entire village in Vietnam in order to save it from the presence of one member of the Viet Cong. It's also the logic employed by the SS when they shot 10 civilians for every german killed in Yugoslavia.

The Charmed Two should have taken the time to reflect on their own misstep. Was it wrong to try to use magic to save Piper? No. It was wrong when they realized that as a result of their naive application of this spell that had caused misery to others and placed innocent victims in danger of losing their lives. At that point, the Charmed Two reversed the spell and clearly chose to risk sacrificing their sister to save innocents. And, you want to find fault with this?

I always thought that we were supposed to learn from our mistakes. Didn't the Charmed Two do this precisely? And, even though it surely pained them to place Piper clearly in harm's way to undo a good spell gone bad, the Charmed Two did what needed to be done!

How am I making excuses for behavior I can only applaud? I can criticize the naivete with which the spell was cast and the cavalier disposal of the poppet. They should have known that witch paraphernalia was a bit different than hazardous medical waste. And, I can condemn Piper's attempt to short circuit agricultural inspection surely as much as I can criticize Andrew Speaker for flying from Rome to Montreal after learning that his TB was not the garden variety type. That I can criticize and have done so. But, I am not going to disown the Charmed Ones because of it.

[MarAcev]

the Charmed Two reversed the spell and clearly chose to risk sacrificing their sister to save innocents. And, you want to find fault with this?

Not to mention that they were pushed by Piper, who felt responsible for what others were going through and decided to sacrifice her life for her mistakes in order to save others.

Allowing Piper's death for ilegal fruits is more than disproportionate punishment and completely foolish of the elders, as was punishing Leo for saving the life of one of the greatest forces who had been fighting on the side of good for two years (at that point).

[ljones]

This is pathetic. I can't believe you guys are actually trying to make excuses for Piper's initial behavior and later, Phoebe and Prue. All because they are the exaulted Charmed Ones.

They committed wrongs in this episode, and hardly any of you can't seem to admit it, because you want them to be in the right, all of the time. This is sad.


As far as I'm concerned, I think the Elders were right not to interfere. Piper and her sisters committed major errors. And from my point of view, they deserved to pay the consequences of their actions. Also, their roles as the Charmed Ones should not have given them any excuses for them to avoid the consequences of their actions. Screw that!

[vandergraafk]

Who's excusing Piper's initial behavior? She was wrong to knowingly use another person's connections to bypass the legally mandated quarantine time for this particular fruit. She ran a huge risk, one that she probably didn't understand fully. That is, why did this fruit have to be quarantined? Was it simply the standard procedure regarding importation of any fruit into California (we want to protect our crops from pests from other states and countries. By the way, for those of you who have never been to California, we use to have agricultural inspection stations at all of the main entrances to the state. The inspection stations remain for trucks, but passenger cars can now pass through without stopping.)? Or, was there something special about this fruit that mandated a particular quarantine? She didn't know, probably didn't want to know and chose not to care in order to obtain the fruit as soon as possible. It was wrong, she knew it and probably never made the same mistake again.

Now, do we reconstruct a Morality Bites scenario where future Phoebe must burn in order for the lesson to creep in? Maybe yes, except that this is real time Piper who will surely die since her body rejects the standard treatment. I fully understand Prue's and Phoebe's desire to do everything and anything they can in order to revive Piper. Against Piper's express desire, Phoebe summons Leo. Together, Prue and Phoebe learn that he cannot interfere. Why not? To teach Piper a lesson? How will she learn if she is dead? To teach Prue and Phoebe a lesson? Well, if that was the Elders' intention, it surely backfired since Prue and Phoebe deliberately choose to use a spell to save Piper for the greater good. Had the Elders' let Leo do his schtick, Prue and Phoebe would not have used magic. But, maybe the Elders wanted to have Prue and Phoebe, pushed along by Piper, reverse the spell on their own and to give up one of the Charmed Ones in order to save innocents. Okay, then maybe suspending Leo was only a pro forma punishment that only served as a cautionary reminder to Leo. Wink, wink. Nod, nod! I just don't know.

But, gosh, someone must really have an axe to grind to want to condemn my precious Charmed Ones for this incident. Either that or we have some whacked out religious fanatics in the house who find it perfectly acceptable to stone adulterers (women only, mind you) or cut the hands off of thieves (no matter the unjust distribution of wealth in a society) and issue draconian fines for people who speed (Commonwealth of Virginia's new policy on speeding tickets: help build VA's future roads and overdevelopment by driving 20 mph or more over the speed limit. Your $2,000 will be greatly appreciated. Sorry, this applies to in-state residents only!)

[whitelightertony]

How silly it would be for the Elders to teach Piper a lesson by allowing her to die.

Even sillier given the fact that, at that point in time, the Elders didn't even know about the existence of Paige and that she would be a "replacement" Charmed One in the event of Piper's death.

Also, Piper's death would have tipped the scales in favor of Evil, with the Power of Three being permanently dismantled (at least, as far as the Elders knew).

Just goes to show how the Elders tend to throw logic and rational thought out the window when it comes to basking in their own self-righteousness.

[ljones]

But, gosh, someone must really have an axe to grind to want to condemn my precious Charmed Ones for this incident.

This is so ridiculous that I find it pathetic. What is this? I'm not allowed to be critical of the Charmed Ones' questionable behavior? Did fascism take control of this board or something? I like Piper, but what she did was wrong. And quite frankly, I see no reason why the Elders should allow her to get away with what she had done. If her club had not been shut down right away, many of her customers would have found themselves dying of Arroyo Fever . . . all because Piper got greedy and wanted to buy foreign fruit that had not been inspected. That's it, as far as I'm concerned. Piper was d**n lucky that she was a regular character, or her behind would have been dead, due to her actions.

Just goes to show how the Elders tend to throw logic and rational thought out the window when it comes to basking in their own self-righteousness.

You think that the Elders were being self-righteous? I think you're being hypocritical. You seem to think that Piper should not have paid the consequences of her actions, because she is one of the main lead and one of the exaulted Charmed Ones. Well screw that! They were right to let her die. Because if she had not been immediately hospitalized, many of her customers probably would have ended up dead, due to her damn greed.

[whitelightertony]

You seem to think that Piper should not have paid the consequences of her actions, because she is one of the main lead and one of the exaulted Charmed Ones. Well screw that! They were right to let her die. Because if she had not been immediately hospitalized, many of her customers probably would have ended up dead, due to her d**n greed.

Um, don't put words into my mouth, ljones.

I don't think Piper's life should have been spared just because she's "a lead."

I think her life should have been spared because importing illegal fruit should not equate death. The punishment didn't fit the crime in this situation.

Piper didn't import the fruit with any malicious intent (unlike when the Charmed Ones "punished" Cal Greene). She didn't wake up one morning and say, "Oh, I'm going to import illegal fruit and spread Arroyo fever across San Francisco to see how many Innocents I can get killed."

And if Piper had known that her illegal fruit had the potential to put people's lives at risk, do you seriously believe she would have still served it in her club?

There had to be a better way for Piper to learn from her mistake rather than losing her life (and tipping the scales in favor of Evil).

[spiritsas]

WT - Agreed.

LJ - I don't think anyone is criticizing you for being down on Piper or any of the other sisters. Technically, she committed a crime (a human crime, not a magical one), for which there were both medical and legal consequences to pay (although the legal ones were not explored, other than the economic ones of having her club shut down temporarily). And, she did suffer those consequences. The issue is, of course, whether or not there should be further consequences for her sister's use of magic for personal gain. There were, the spreading of the disease by the miniature ninja and the eventual stalking by the doctor who then investigated and experimented with their blood. The consequences for him were very severe, indeed.

So, mistakes were made, consequences felt, but most everyone survived. The only consequence, which was not followed up, were the legal ramifications for Piper the citizen of CA, who might have faced a severe fine and incarceration. Hey, but it's a TV show, right?

[ljones]

I hate to say this, but one of the consequences that Piper did suffer from her actions was a possible death. Why? Because she was greedy and stupid enough to purchase illegal fruit . . . fruit that contained a deadly bug.

First of all, Piper committed a minor crime. Second, she ended up dying because of this minor crime. Third, she was not dying because she had been fighting some supernatural evil. She was dying because she purchased and consumed fruit that was both illegal and deadly. And because of this, I feel that the the Elders were not obligated to save her life because she was part of the d**n Power of Three. There have been witches and demon hunters before they had arrived on the scene.

[vandergraafk]

Of course, the Elders were not obligated to heal Piper. Why should they? But, as I understand Charmedverse, whitelighters have the power to heal humans. Supposedly, according to the whitelighter manual, they are only to heal humans, including mortal witches, when these individuals have been harmed by warlocks or demons. Leo, however, already broke this rule when, in Season 1, he healed the psychokinetic boy's father who had been shot by one of the criminals attempting to exploit the son's ability to move objects without seeing them. At the time, we were not privy to any consequences that Leo may have suffered as a result of this "violation" of the whitelighter manual. Perhaps there were none. Or, perhaps he was given a reprimand that was placed in his whitelighter employee manual.

Leo could have chosen to heal Piper in Awakened. He stated that he could not and let the Charmed Two know that the Elders had forbade it. Assuming that Leo did not lie, I conclude that Leo knew that he would have been reprimanded severely for violating the whitelighter manual once again. In fact, his intervention does lead to his being temporarily stripped of his whitelighter powers.

As a consequence of Leo's statement to the sisters, Phoebe and Prue decide to fix the problem themselves. After all, they are witches and, ljones, as you have noted, the so-called personal gain proviso is not common in Wicca and, in my view, is utterly useless to begin with as an analytical tool. Do ye no harm in practicing witchcraft ought to have been their guide. And, indeed, the Charmed Two realize - after ten or so staff and patients contract the supposedly non-contagious arroyo fever - that their spell had gone awry. Prompted by Piper, the Charmed Two reverse the spell and risk losing their sister Piper.

To this point, I can't see possibly how this can be "debatable". Those are the facts as presented in the show. Where I suppose we differ is in the interpretation.

First, I raised this issue solely to demonstrate the capriciousness of the Elders. Perhaps that was not the best word; or, this is not the best example of caprice. However, now that it is being discussed, let me suggest that the Elders, at best, were too rigid and foolish in forbidding Leo to heal Piper. Certainly, they should have suspected that Evil was about to take a stand with respect to the Charmed Ones: Litvack; the Council (Careful What You Witch For); the TRIAD (earlier Season 3); and, of course, the Brotherhood of the Thorn. Without knowing where the threat was coming from, the Elders should have suspected something was in the works. The Charmed Ones had been souccessful over the past two years in thwarting evil that somebody (the Source) was bound to up the ante.

Given your self-declared propensity to wish to stir controversy, is it any wonder that many of us are wondering exactly how serious you are in your comments. Or, should we conclude that once again we have more bombast meant only to boil our blood? Seriously, to assert that it is perfectly reasonable, and indeed, desireable, to have a character punished by death for a violation of quarantine law is just absurd and devoid of empathy. Though there are some people I can think of who probably deserve to die - Charles Manson, the Son of Sam slayer, the nutcase in Germany who trolled for humans on the internet so he could eat them, etc., such people constitute a very minute minority of the total population. Your comments, if serious, are reprehensible at worst and, unfortunately, stereotypical American. Think Curtis LeMay's dictum about what to do about the Viet Cong: bomb them back into the Stone Age! Wait! Wasn't it their country the US was attacking!

By the way, illegally importing fruit into a country or state by bypassing the quarantine period is NOT a MAJOR crime. Depending on the scale of the operation, it could be a misdemeanor civil offense (the type of action that Piper took since she was not the importer nor involved in the bypassing of the quarantine. She was the end consumer taken advantage of a criminal act.) It could also be a misdemeanor felony (how much fruit was being brought (think of the tourists who every year try to skirt Hawaii's and California's quarantine restrictions.) For the Brits, think rabies. Britain has very strict quarantine laws regarding the bringing in of dogs from mainland Europe. Or, it could have been a major felony (depending on the scale of the operation and the frequency with which this illegal activity had been done). To simply declare by fiat that Piper committed a MAJOR crime merely demonstrates either the bombasity of the remark or the general ignorance of all things legal which you have repeatedly demonstrated. Now, who's a FASCIST?

[whitelightertony]

She was dying because she purchased and consumed fruit that was both illegal and deadly. And because of this, I feel that the the Elders were not obligated to save her life because she was part of the d**n Power of Three.

Let me phrase this to you in another way: what harm was Leo causing by healing Piper's fever in "Awakened"?

[vandergraafk]

Whitelightertony, your question is quite rightly posed with respect to witches. It is, however, off track with respect to whitelighters. In the Official Guide and the imaginary whitelighter manual, whitelighters are not supposed to heal mortals - or witches - for that matter - who have not been injured by evil. As I indicated, Leo has broken this whitelighter code of behavior repeatedly. Then again, he has always shown a proclivity to breaking whitelighter rules. Think of his self-proclaimed misconduct in Y Tu Mummy Tambien? when Leo glamours himself into Jarek in order to ease the difficulties that Darryl was encountering with respect to his promotion: magic was preventing what otherwise would have been a normal and fully earned promotion to lieutenant for Darryl Morris. Indeed, one of the reasons that Leo was the ideal whitelighter for the Charmed Ones was the fact that his willingness to violate the whitelighter manual mirrored the sisters' disinclination to follow any precepts of witchcraft that got in their way (as long as innocents were not harmed).

Still, I understand your general point, a view I have hopefully restated to exhaustion in the preceding post. I would, however, choose to clarify one point. As I indicated above, I brought up the incidents in Awakened in pursuit of Elder caprice. As my post has demonstrated, I am already having second thoughts about whether this example adequately captures what I sought: to show the capricious nature of some Elder decisions. One could argue - and probably should - that my account is incomplete if I do not consider free will. Yes, the Elders perhaps compelled the Charmed Two to cast a spell once Leo had announced to Phoebe and Prue that the Elders would not let him heal Piper. However, Prue and Phoebe freely chose to explore the possibilities of magic within the constraints that invariably are attached to free will.

Let me suggest that "free will" is rarely ever free and certainly cannot merely be willed at will. Hitler, perhaps the most obvious exponent and example of Wille zur Macht (will to power), made choices that he freely chose: to put pressure on Poland even if the instances were highly contrived; to attack France and England because both countries stood in the way of his ultimate aim - the destruction of the Soviet Union; and, to attack the Soviet Union in order to dominate Europe completely. Yet, Hitler could not execute such choices without having the means by which to do so. For a while, he could take advantage of the idiocy of Neville Chamberlain and the other appeasers who thought Hitler a mere bluster in the wake of a horrible dispensation of World War I. No, Hitler wasn't going to be mollified with merely redressing the grievances of WWI: the occupation of the Saarland and the Ruhr by mainly French troops; the improved treatment of Bohemians of German ethnicity in Bohemia and Moravia; or, even, the unification of Austria and Germany, a union which nearly everyone in Austria and Germany favored after the collapse in the Great War. No, Hitler wanted the complete reordering of Europe under German domination. If that meant the extermination of the Jews, so be it. If that meant the carpet bombing of England, so be it. Ultimately, it would entail destruction of the Soviet Union. Alas, that would require access to Rumanian oil and the brilliance of Albert Speer, an architect of Hiterl's mindset who had the organizational brillance to finally maximize the German war effort through stepped up production and full-scale innovation (synthetic oil, etc.). Unfortunately, for the Nazis, not even a determined megalomaniac could overcome the willingness of Russia to sacrifice millions of peasants, the determination of Russian weapons manufacturers to produce even bigger and badder armaments than the Germans could muster (panzer/tanks; Stalinorgel/artillery). There are always constraints whether they be the result of scarcities inherent in practically any exercise or the willingness and commitment of others to oppose any exercise of free will. (Do you think the Bushidos underestimated the ability of the Iraqi insurgency to "bring it on"?)

But I digress!

Given the constraints that the Elders had constructed and the inability of Piper's body to respond to the normal treatment of arroyo fever, Phoebe and Prue "freely" chose to employ magic. And, maybe that's what the Elders wanted after all. Allow the sisters to make a choice, a choice which the Elders probably could have foreseen would entail the use of magic, and allow the sisters to deal with the consequences. After all, wasn't that the whole point of Morality Bites? The sisters were thrust into the future and placed in a scenario where Piper and Prue could choose to use magic in order to save Phoebe. Indeed, this version of the Charmed Two did ultimately choose to use magic to rescue Phoebe from death's doorstep. However, as we have seen, Phoebe dissuaded the Charmed Two from carrying out their magic to its inevitable result. Phoebe had to die in order to drive the lesson home that magic used to exact vengeance upon even the most despicable of human actions unpunished through the normal judicial means was absolutely unacceptable. Was there an equally powerful lesson to be learned in Awakened?

Though unexamined, whether through overt reflection or in the reprise events of Morality Bites when Phoebe had to dissuade Piper and Prue from "freezing" the scene and pushing the pile under the boorish dog owner's foot EVEN AFTER the sisters were returned to the present, there are lessons to be gleaned from Awakened. First, backfires need to be contemplated before magic is employed. Don't just rush to cast a spell because the situation demands it. (And, Paige had to learn this lesson by herself in A Wrong Day's Journey into Right.) Consider what could possibly go wrong. Second, when casting a spell that requires the use of potions and totems, make sure that these are properly disposed of. Simply throwing the poppet into the hazardous waste basket is not enough. And, third, think through the exposure issues before casting a spell and at least come up with a plan of action in the event that exposure results.

The last lesson is probably the most important and one which the Charmed Ones never seemed to fully grasp. Astral Monkey is the result of this oversight. All Hell Breaks Loose is an even more horrific example since it results not only in the death of an innocent doctor (Curtis Williamson in Astral Monkey and the good doctor in AHBL), but one of the sisters is lost as well. Still worse is the non-chalance that Piper exhibits in Used Karma when she puts "cleaning up the exposure mess" in third place on the list of priorities. Incidentally, we have absolutely no idea how this example of exposure was cleaned up, especially after everyone disburses from the press conference/celebration that Jason Dean had his staff painstakingly organize to celebrate the second largest French media merger. (By the way, the first was the French buy-out of Universal Studios, a short-lived conglomerate disaster.) I could go on: exposure in Hyde School Reunion when the class reunion is dispersed after all hell breaks loose when Phoebe casts her spell and turns her rival into an ()itch. Had a better prosecutor than the demon FEAR put on a case in Crimes and Witch Demeanor, these were two of the most egregious examples of exposure that the Charmed Ones NEVER cleaned up, nor could have, even if they had tried.

Maybe there was method to the Elder madness!

[whitelightertony]

In the Official Guide and the imaginary whitelighter manual, whitelighters are not supposed to heal mortals - or witches - for that matter - who have not been injured by evil.

But what is their rationale for this rule? What constructive purpose do the Elders believe this rule serves?

Still worse is the non-chalance that Piper exhibits in Used Karma when she puts "cleaning up the exposure mess" in third place on the list of priorities. Incidentally, we have absolutely no idea how this example of exposure was cleaned up, especially after everyone disburses from the press conference/celebration that Jason Dean had his staff painstakingly organize to celebrate the second largest French media merger. (By the way, the first was the French buy-out of Universal Studios, a short-lived conglomerate disaster.)

As the end of the episode, Jason indicates to Phoebe that he might lose the merger. So that would imply that the Charmed Ones never reversed the exposure that Mata Hari caused at the merger ceremony. However, in terms of the magic from Phoebe (possessed by Mata Hari) that everyone witnessed, I suppose Jason and his handlers may have been able to write it off to the investors as being simply some nifty pyrotechnics and special effects that were all part of the show, to illustrate the technological glitz that would come with the merger. Still, you'd think that, since Piper mentioned the intent to reverse the exposure (despite it being third on her list of priorities) that at some point the Charmed Ones would return to the site of the merger and cast a memory erasure spell.

I could go on: exposure in Hyde School Reunion when the class reunion is dispersed after all hell breaks loose when Phoebe casts her spell and turns her rival into an ()itch.

Paige mentioned having reversed that exposure, implying that Paige probably cast a memory erasure spell that caused all of Phoebe's classmates to forget the magical antics they'd witnessed that night.

[ljones]

But what is their rationale for this rule? What constructive purpose do the Elders believe this rule serves?

Apparently they believe that they cannot interfere in a situation if it has nothing to do with magic. Do you want the whitelighters to have control over everything?

And why should the Elders allow the Charmed Ones to evade the consequences of the sisters' more questionable actions? Wouldn't this make them out to be hypocrites when it comes to morality?

[MarAcev]

since Piper mentioned the intent to reverse the exposure (despite it being third on her list of priorities) that at some point the Charmed Ones would return to the site of the merger and cast a memory erasure spell.

If they could simply cast a memory erasing spell on everyone, All hell breaks loose would not have happened. Whatever Phoebe did wasn't that huge a deal in terms of exposure, nothing a good magician could not have pulled off.

[vandergraafk]

Oh, yes I am well aware that Piper reports that Paige was able to reverse the exposure problem in Hyde School Reunion, but that statement is a cop out and it merely demonstrates how hideous the writing had at times become during Season 6. On what basis in Charmedverse could Paige have cleaned up this problem? Leo already indicated at the conclusion of the jury trial where Phoebe used magic to conjure the dead woman's spirit that too many people were involved and, worse, it might erase important appointments still to be kept. If there were such a spell, then, as Maracev correctly notes, All Hell Breaks Loose would not have happened as it did. No, this is simply one of those unexplained problems that crop up in later Charmed.

I will not glibly dismiss the exposure in Used Karma. Leaping frogs is going to be a bit hard to explain - even for a magician! And, as for ljones's comment, I confess confusion. Maybe we have to speak of degrees of freedom (or free will). Witches have a greater amount of free will than whitelighters, whom the Elders can punish in a variety of ways. Witches seemingly are only bound by the proviso not to harm innocents. What Prue and Phoebe did hurt innocents initially and was undone even at great personal sacrifice. Leo chose to save Piper. It was his decision - and his alone - to make. He came to her rescue and paid the price. That's all!