Prue's Death - Could it have been avoided

[vandergraafk]

I am at a loss to know how to even begin such a discussion. First, the episode (All Hell Breaks Losse) was intended as a season ending cliff-hanger. Any one of the Charmed Ones could have died or none of them. What caused Prue to die was not the result of anything inherent in the episode or the logical consequence of a story arc that had been brewing. Much like Andy's demise, it was dictated by the elimination of a character through the pink-slipping of a an actor or actress. What more can be said?


{Edited to change the subject title.}

[The Original P3]

Bringing in the actors and their jobs really is not a helpful way to begin a discussion. Then we could talk about powers as nothing more than special effects. We need to focus on the show and not the fact that there was a camera man and crew making this.

As far as Prue's death being avoided, yes. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Phoebe recklessly running off to the underworld while her sisters were still dealing with a possible threat, IMO, played a huge role in why Prue died. At the very least she could have waited till Leo got back after talking with the Elders for confirmation of Shax's death.

Yes, Phoebe did become the bargaining chip, but like Leo said, it benefitted not just the Charmed ones but the demonic world as well to turn back time. Phoebe being down there held leverage for the Source, making the threat that he wouldn't turn back time enless she stayed. If she had stayed with her sisters, time could have been turned back (maybe not as quickly but it still would have) and she would have been there to call for Leo in time to save both Prue and Piper.

[misskitty66]

good lord why is it always phoebe's fault? things happen for a reason. what dont kill us will make us stronger. could it been avoided ? yeah i suppose so. but then it would of been the power of 4 will send you thru the floor? hahahhahaha ok anyhow lol would of been great if she'd of stayed. what a show... but as all is said things happen for a reason...

[vandergraafk]

But in this particular case it is relevant. It's the only reason Prue died. What you are bringing up - legitimate points as far as I am concerned and ones that I have elaborated on in other threads - is a different topic of discussion. The topic you wish to discuss is the choice that Phoebe made to abandon the immediate threat - Shax - in order to save Cole. The consequences of her decision made possible a scenario whereby any one, two or all three sisters could have died.

[whitelightertony]

Isn't it rather interesting that, up until this point, Piper seemed to be the sister who died the most often?

A.) She died once in "Deja Vu All Over Again" (with Prue surviving her)...

B.) Then again in "Awakened" (her life only being spared because Leo "broke the rules" and resurrected her)....

C.) Then again in "Coyote Piper" (with Prue surviving her, but ultimately saving her).....

D.) And finally in "All Hell Breaks Loose," before time was turned backward.

In two of these cases (A and D), Piper was resurrected as a result of time manipulation from Tempus. And in "All Hell Breaks Loose," Phoebe, Cole, and The Source (and Prue, indirectly) all played a role in Piper's eventual resurrection.

It seems that if it was any Halliwell sister's destiny to die, it was Piper's. She just got a reprieve because people kept saving her. The only reason she survived Shax's attack in the second timeline was because Shax happened to hit Prue with a stronger force than he hit Piper.

Yet, how do we reconcile Piper's alleged "destiny" (reconstituting the Power of Three, and giving birth to Wyatt) with all times prior to that when Piper died?

[spiritsas]

W- You are right about the # of times Piper suffered mortal injuries or even, technically died and was brought back. You list four examples, but there are more like 8 to 10 times, maybe more during the course of the show.

This aside, we do have consider what V said initially. The show was meant for one type of ending, but then some things happened in the real world (not the first time or last this will happen on a show) which directly affects the cast. Without speculating why SD was booted from the show, she was and they had to scramble, I'm sure, to write in another sister. I think they did a fantastic job with this. Did SD leaving hurt the show in the long run. Yes, but it's not like the writers did this on purpose.

In fact, SD directed that last episode she was in, so certainly she expected to be back. You can say that taking into account the real world reasons why Prue is killed off is not appropriate to the threads issue, but if you don't you're just ignoring the elephant in the room and creating your own fantasy of what would have happened.

So, to answer the thread's question, no, Prue's death could not have been avoided. In fact, in some ways, her death created a number of very enjoyable and well acted scenes and storylines, as Piper is forced to assume the big sister role. She is even angry at Prue for dying and leaving her, which is a perfectly natural (and often happens in real life) when a loved one dies. It was a very dramatic and well done scene with Piper litterally beating on Prue's mosleum wall plate and yelling at her for dying and leaving. It truly brings tears to your eyes to see such an emotional scene. Something which was lacking a bit in the last season, but that's another thread.

Anyway, Prue had to die, so Piper could step up to the plate and take over. If you wonder why they never, ever had even so much as a picture of Prue in any post S3 episodes (something every fan wanted to see- meanig to have Prue come back as a ghost or whatever), well then there's that real world thing getting in the way of our fantasy desires. Again, not getting into it in depth, but is SD wanted back in or if they wanted her back at all, even in a small guest appearance, all she and Brad Kern had to do was have a civil conversation on the matter. Whatever happened to get her to leave may have created bad feelings, but no one seemed to want to do the adult thing and respond to the desires of many of the fans. My point is that you can't totally ignore how these real world events will always impact what we see on TV.

By the way, why was Andy killed off in S1? Was there a real world issue there too?

[Fourever Charmed]

whitelightertony said:

It seems that if it was any Halliwell sister's destiny to die, it was Piper's. She just got a reprieve because people kept saving her. The only reason she survived Shax's attack in the second timeline was because Shax happened to hit Prue with a stronger force than he hit Piper.

I love that you brought this up! I just wanted to take a moment and touch on this.

Going by the Charmedverse and not the actresses/actors/technicalities behind the scenes, Leo said he could only save ONE sister: Prue or Piper. If Piper was right about Leo choosing her because she was his wife (and although Piper was angry and hurting when she said that, I do believe she was right given his emotional display before time was turned back), then I think it was Piper's destiny to die and Prue's to live. But just as in "Awakened," Leo saved her and thus Prue suffered the consequences.

[vandergraafk]

I could accept this as part of Charmedverse, if it indeed were part of Charmedverse. Whitelightertony reasons that the blow to Prue was more severe than the one that befell Piper. This might explain why Leo, delayed as he was in the Underworld, could not heal both sisters. One could equally argue that the delay could have cost both sisters their lives. Why not? Leo was detained in the underworld and could not know what would happen.

The resolution of this cliff-hanger, though, has nothing to do with Charmedverse and everything to do with the personalities behind the scene. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is!

Yes, whitelightertony is correct in noting that Piper seemed the one most destined to die an early death. Indeed, Leo noted this as well, when discussing the similarities between Piper and Patty in A Witch's Tail Part 1. Again, that's not what happened between All Hell Breaks Loose and Charmed Again. Perhaps that explains why there are many fans who keep searching for the "lost" episode of Charmed.

[whitelightertony]

Going by the Charmedverse and not the actresses/actors/technicalities behind the scenes, Leo said he could only save ONE sister: Prue or Piper. If Piper was right about Leo choosing her because she was his wife (and although Piper was angry and hurting when she said that, I do believe she was right given his emotional display before time was turned back), then I think it was Piper's destiny to die and Prue's to live. But just as in "Awakened," Leo saved her and thus Prue suffered the consequences.

See, I always assumed that Leo put one hand on Prue and one hand on Piper, and tried to heal them both simultaneously. He was able to heal Piper, because she was still alive; but he was unable to heal Prue, because she was dead by the time Leo had orbed in.

As emotionally distraught as he was, I see no reason why Leo (based on everything we know about him) would completely ignore Prue and concentrate all of his efforts on solely healing Piper (unless, by that point, he'd already sensed/confirmed that Prue was indeed dead). In "Charmed Again - Part 1," Leo even makes a comment to the effect of "I can't heal the dead" when Piper irrationally accuses him of failing to revive Prue.

This would seem to imply that Leo attempted to heal both Prue and Piper at the same time, but he couldn't save Prue because she was already dead.

[whitelightertony]

Anyway, Prue had to die, so Piper could step up to the plate and take over.

But was Piper really meant to "step up to the plate and take over"? Or was that resolution just one of many conflicting destinies?

In Season 6, Gideon says that he (and presumably some of the other Elders) feel it was a mistake to have let Wyatt be born. Obviously, if Piper had died prior to 2003, Wyatt never would have been born in the first place. So does that mean there is a faction of Elders who believe that destiny wasn't properly carried out by allowing Piper to survive Prue?

In an alternate universe, if Piper had been the only Charmed One to die at Shax's hands, Prue and Phoebe most likely still would have discovered Paige (who presumably would have inherited Piper's powers - - freezing and combusting matter with an orbing tint/effect to them, along with the traditional whitelighter orb-style teleportation) and reconstituted the Power of Three. But in that scenario, Wyatt would never have been born.

Would that have been a preferable resolution, in the eyes of some of the Elders?

[foxfire]

I'm going to reply to this in two fashions. The real world and the Charmed world.

Let's start with the real world. It was stated that Shannen Doherty wanted off the show for season two (I read it somewhere, so sue me). And she directed the episode she was going to kill her character off in. I think there was a growing dissatisfaction with Shannen Doherty about being on a television show like this. She obviously wanted to do more serious acting and such. So really, the only way Shannen would have stayed would have been with more money and a producer spot. Personally, I wish it hadn't turned out the way it did but there's no way it could have been avoided.

Charmedverse wise... Prue was dead. Leo said it himself. There's absolutely nothing that he or anyone else could have done because it was fate.

However, had Piper died instead, things would be A LOT different. There's the good, Gideon never would have appeared and probably never magic school. All the leprechauns and unicorns never would have appeared. (Trust me SD probably wouldn't be on a show with that still in it...) But there'd be the bad, no Piper (duh...) and no future Chris (very upsetting, isn't it?).

[Fourever Charmed]

foxfire said:

no future Chris (very upsetting, isn't it?).

I'd consider that a divine blessing! (And no Wyatt. Yes!)

[spiritsas]

C- Why would you be down on Chris and Wyatt.

[Rebecca Malfoy]

I think it could have been avoided if Phoebe had not gone to save Cole from the Underworld. She would have been there to call for Leo to heal.

[vandergraafk]

I take it from some of the comments that many fans believe that Shannen Doherty was dismissive of the show. I know she's stated elsewhere that she thought the show was aimed at 12 year old girls. Perhaps that had something to do with her dissatisfaction.

Given Shannen's own history of bad decisions, there's no reason to suppose she was any more correct in her assessment of Charmed's appeal than any other would-be TV critic. I recall Rose mentioning that she was supposed by the number of middle-aged women and men who were/are enamored of the show. Believe me: as a middle-aged male, the visual eye candy was the least appealing aspect of Charmed. If Charmed had only relied on skantily clad actresses for its allure, it would not have lasted long.

Maybe Shannen's continued presence would have precluded leprechauns et al, but I am skeptical. First, in Once Upon a Time, we are introduced to fairies and trolls. Was it such a great leap to introduce leprechauns, dwarves, gnomes, ogres, nymphs, etc?
Second, even if Shannen had become a producer - as Alyssa and Holly later achieved - there are producers and producers. For some, producers are glorified errand boys. For others, the role carries some weight. Real status is achieved only when one becomes an executive producer. Even there, I imagine, there are distinctions. The point is: Shannen may not have achieved much, if any, creative control over Charmed had she stayed on.

Besides, when Shannen's pique was at its most pronounced, wasn't there already a contest for creative control between Brad Kern and Constance Burge? Eventually, Constance Burge left Charmed for whatever reason. Some of that surely had to do with the direction the show was taking, a turn toward the dark side (the Source, Cole, etc.), which I personally liked, but one that I am certain did not please Ms. Burge! After all, she wanted to write a series about three sisters who happened to be witches, not a series about three witches who vanquish more and more powerful demons as an obsession. Everybody has an off day!

[Fourever Charmed]

spiritkas said:

C- Why would you be down on Chris and Wyatt.

As far as I'm concerned, Charmed was great through season four. (It had it's faults, yes, all shows do.) But season five was when it all hit the fan. Wyatt was a terrible addition to the show. He was too powerful and all the storylines became way too "cute" and all they wanted to do was focus on what I call, "Super Boy!" They took away all this great female power and turned it into the all powerful male and that really p!ssed me off. (And to make matters worse, as soon as Holly got pregnant, they continued with the awful male theme.) It just burns me that a show about sisters suddenly became all about a cocky brat "prophecy" (the Warren lineage should've continued on with females) and his brother.

[ljones]

What I am about to say is ironic, considering that Phoebe is my least favorite sister.


Many of you seemed to be of the opinion that Phoebe is to blame for Prue's death. It almost seems as if you want to use her as some kind of scapegoat:

As far as Prue's death being avoided, yes. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Phoebe recklessly running off to the underworld while her sisters were still dealing with a possible threat, IMO, played a huge role in why Prue died. At the very least she could have waited till Leo got back after talking with the Elders for confirmation of Shax's death.

But in this particular case it is relevant. It's the only reason Prue died. What you are bringing up - legitimate points as far as I am concerned and ones that I have elaborated on in other threads - is a different topic of discussion. The topic you wish to discuss is the choice that Phoebe made to abandon the immediate threat - Shax - in order to save Cole. The consequences of her decision made possible a scenario whereby any one, two or all three sisters could have died.

I'm sorry, but I find this extremely hard to accept.

Has anyone ever stopped to consider that Prue has to take responsibility for her own death? Has everyone forgotten how the whole mess in "All Hell Breaks Loose" started in the first place?

It started because Prue forgot the lesson that the best offense is defense. She was the one who insisted that she and Piper leave the manor to track down Shax. The sisters could have remained at the manor and prepared themselves for another attack by Shax. Instead, Prue dragged Piper out of the manor and when they encountered Shax, their actions were video taped by the media. This is the incident that started the events that led to Prue's death, not Phoebe's decision to find and save Cole.

Prue: Maybe the spell needs more than one witch to have it's full impact. Okay, come on.

(Prue gets up and then helps Piper up.)

Piper: Come on? Where?

Prue: To find him so we can finish him off while he's still hurt. (to Phoebe) Look, you just stay here with Griffiths, alright. If Shax comes back, say the spell to fend him off, okay? Ow. Come on.

(Prue and Piper go outside. Leo looks at the Doctor, who's in shock.)

[Cut outside. Prue and Piper are running down the street.]

Piper: Maybe Phoebe hurt him worse than we thought.

Prue: No, he's gotta be around here somewhere, he wouldn't leave without getting what he came for.

Piper: Do you really think he'd attack us in broad day light? Evil is usually more insidious than that.

(They stop.)

Prue: Ah, okay, shh.

Piper: What? (The tornado comes up behind them. They turn around and gasp. The tornado dies down and Shax appears. He throws an energy ball at them, and Prue deflects it back with her power. It hits him but doesn't harm him.) Blow this! (Piper holds out her hands and blows up Shax. He disappears.) Okay, is he dead?

Prue: Well, we didn't really say the spell.

Piper: Well, maybe we won't have to. We don't always. We're lucky nobody saw us.

Prue: Alright, let's just get back to Phoebe. Come on.

(They walk back towards the manor.)

[Cut to down the street. A female reporter and a camera man are watching Prue and Piper. She turns back to the camera.]

Reporter: Back to me, back to me, back to me. (The camera man points his camera at her.) Okay, um, I'm not exactly sure what just happened, but whatever it was, you saw it here... live.

In the following scene, Phoebe announces her intentions to help Cole. Prue and Piper's protests seemed to be more about her getting emotionally involved with Cole, instead of demanding that she hang around, in case Shax wasn't dead. In fact, Piper seemed to believe that she had killed Shax:

Leo: How'd it go?

Piper: We dodged another bullet.

Prue: Yeah, with him maybe.

Leo: What do you mean?

Prue: I don't know, I mean, something still bothers me about the way that we vanquished Shax. Like, I'm not so sure we really did.

Piper: What do you mean? He screamed, he went poof, just like they all do. Third demon in a row, by the way, that I vanquished with my new power, but who's counting?

(Phoebe walks back in.)

Prue: Right, but if that's all that we needed, then why was there a vanquishing spell in the book? I mean, hasn't that always meant that our individual powers weren't enough?

Leo: Except the book was written by witches with less powers than you guys have. They needed the spells.

Phoebe: Plus, I think if he was still alive, he probably would've attacked us again by now.

Prue: Ah, you know, Leo, can you just check to make sure, please? With the Elders?

Leo: No problem.

(Leo orbs out.)

Piper: If you ask me, I think you're being paranoid. We kicked Shax's ass. We bad.

Prue: Yes, you're probably right.

Phoebe: Then I'm hoping you won't need me around here for a while. I wanna try a new potion on Cole. One that'll reverse the spell that turned him bad in the first place.

Piper: Phoebe...

Phoebe: I'm not looking for your approval, Piper, just your support.

Prue: Well, Phoebe, it's sort of hard to give you support when you're just setting yourself up to get hurt again.

Phoebe: Cole is good inside, I know it. And if dark magic did this to him, then how come white magic can't save him? I can't just turn my back, I have to try.

Piper: What do you want us to do?

Phoebe: I want you to use the magic to magic spell to send me down there. I reworded it to make it work.

(Phoebe hands Piper a piece of paper.)

Piper: Uh, Phoebe, that's awfully dangerous. If something goes wrong we won't be able to contact each other.

Phoebe: I'll be safe, I'll be with Cole. And he'll bring me back, so don't worry about that.

Prue: You're banking a lot on that little potion of yours, you know.

Phoebe: No, I'm not. I'm banking on Cole.

In the following scene, Prue still wants verification that they or Piper had vanquished Shax. The subject of Phoebe is brought up. Piper is concerned that Cole will hurt Phoebe. Prue no longer seem that concern:

[Scene: Outside the manor. Prue and Piper are on the sidewalk. Prue is crouching down looking at the ground.]

Piper: What did you expect to find?

(Prue stands up.)

Prue: I don't know, something though.

Piper: Well, demons don't usually leave footprints, remember?

Prue: No, but sometimes they leave a residue when they've been vanquished. Something otherwise innocuous. Look, I just don't understand how we could vanquish such a powerful demon without a spell.

Piper: But frankly I'm more worried about Phoebe than Shax. We shouldn't have let her go.

Prue: Phoebe can take care of herself, Dr. Griffiths can't. (They start walking up the street.) Look, Piper, I've had a bad feeling about this. I've had one all day. If there's one thing I've learned since becoming a witch, is to trust those feelings.

By this time, Piper and Prue had been exposed on television. And Darryl has been ordered by his captain to question the sisters about "killing" Shax. Although Prue believes that they had done the right thing by leaving the house to go after Shax, Piper doesn't:

Piper: Isn't that illegal? Can't you do something about that?

Darryl: Hey, killing somebody on live TV is pretty illegal too, you know.

Prue: Okay, it wasn't somebody, Darryl, it was a demon. And we're pretty sure we didn't kill him anyway.

Darryl: Do you wanna try telling them that?

Prue: Ugh...

Darryl: Look, I've called for backup, but that's not gonna help for long. This thing's gonna get ugly fast.

Piper: We shouldn't have followed Shax into the street.

Prue: We didn't have a choice, Piper.

Piper: Didn't we?

Prue: Sure, we could've let him kill our innocent. That would've been better, you think? Alright, you know what? Let's not let this thing get between us, okay? We have enough problems as it is, please.

Following this scene, Prue and Piper go to Dr. Griffiths at the hospital to make sure that Shax isn't after the man, in case they didn't vanquish him. Sure enough, Shax appears outside of the hospital and Prue and Piper "vanquish" him . . . before television cameras again. They are informed by Leo that the Elders want them to contact the demon Tempus to set back time. Prue orders Leo to contact Cole, so that he can make a deal with the Source and Tempus. And then the following happens:

Piper: I don't know why we're bothering to do this.

Prue: In case time doesn't reset itself.

(Prue puts a chair against the door.)

Piper: If time doesn't reset itself, this table against that door is not gonna help much.

Prue: Yeah, well, then we better start thinking about what would, okay? Because if Leo doesn't succeed, we're gonna have to figure out what we're gonna do.

(They walk into the living room.)

Piper: We're gonna do talk shows and book signings and movie deals, (Prue picks up the Book of Shadows) and then taken by the CIA and dissected.

Prue: Yeah, how can you be joking about this, Piper?

Piper: Who's joking?

Prue: Well, I'm not. Alright, I'm scared. And you should be too. Okay, our lives, Piper, everything that we've worked for could be completely destroyed with-with one stupid mistake. Our entire future , our entire destiny could be wiped out just like that. (Prue clicks her fingers and a gunshot goes off. Piper gasps.) What was that? (Piper looks down and sees blood on her shirt. Her hands are shaking.) Piper? Piper. (Prue drops the Book of Shadows and grabs Piper before she falls. Prue looks at her hand and it has Piper's blood on it.) Oh!

One stupid mistake. And that one mistake? I believe that Prue's decision to leave the manor and track down Shax was that mistake. Piper certainly thought so.

Prue's decision to leave the house and go after Shax led to the following:

*An erroneous belief that they had succeeded
*Exposure by the media
*Phoebe's decision to go after Cole after Piper had mistakenly expressed the belief that they had succeeded
*Being exposed for the second time by the media
*Piper being shot
*The deal with the Source and Tempus, which led to Phoebe being trapped in the Source's Realm
*Time being reset, which led to a second attack by Shax
*Dr. Griffith and Prue's deaths

How Phoebe became to be solely blamed for Prue's death without anyone considering how Prue's earlier decision led to a domino effect . . . is simply beyond me.

[foxfire]

I wouldn't blame Phoebe for Piper's death either. It's not like she knew she was going to get trapped in the underworld.

One thing's for sure, I think they should have come up with a MUCH scarier demon to kill Prue. I'd already heard that Shax was the demon that kills Prue, and here I thought he'd be some tough guy who was terrifying (something along the lines of Belthazor or maybe even The Master from Buffy), but instead it was this blue thing with long hair.

[spiritsas]

Foxfire: You're absolutely correct in that Phoebe is not to blame. I think she gets the blame for two reasons. First, she was there the first time to call for Leo to heal both her sisters and not the second, because she was double crossed by the Source and on the run with Cole and Leo. Second has to do with the story that a feud between AM and SD caused SD to leave, which I don't believe at. Prue fans who believe this can't help but blame her TV role for not being there in time to save both Prue and Piper, again. In fact, they never did show how Leo got back in time to even save Piper, who, given the rules laid down in the Charmedverse, must have still been alive when he returned to the house to find Prue dead and Piper mortally wounded. It's too bad they never shot that scene, to start season 4 (without showing Prue's face, of course, as they wouldn't have been allowed), but just picked up things a couple of days later, on the eve before Prue's funeral. Presumably, it was at least one if not two days later. Technically, it could have been more, since (in the real world) Prue was a murder victim and an autopsy would have to be performed. It may have been a week or more before they released her body for burial as they tried to collect evidence. OK, too much CSI, but I think everyone follows my train of thought.

[vandergraafk]

Maybe we should call this thread the "Blame Game". What I find troubling is that some of us are having trouble distinguishing between opportunity and exposure. Let me explain.

What ljones cites as the consequences of Prue's decision to follow Shax out into the public clearly resulted in exposure of the worst sort. The actions of the Charmed Ones were broadcast not once, but twice on local and national TV. Though the sisters might have gotten away with the first one - after all, how were the media to explain what had happened - the second time on tape is much too coincidental to be glossed over. The media would have hung on like a pit bull gnawing away at some unfortunate chap's shin.

Exposure, though, is certainly not something new to the sisters. Indeed, there have been numerous instances of exposure over the years. One that I would like to cite and comment on is the dreadful exposure that surely emerged from Phoebe's attempt to avenge her bad karma on Jason, her now jaded former lover. The trashing of the press conference/speech given by Jason in front of many dignitaries, many presumably with media connections, by Phoebe and the resulting exposure of magic was potentially lethal to the Charmed Ones. However, the series conveniently glosses over this exposure and allows Phoebe cum Mata Hari to get away with renegade exposure.

Yet, exposure is only one side of the coin. Opportunity is the other. Exposure in All Hell Breaks Loose presented the Source with an opportunity to gain advantage. The Swarm King in Used Karma apparently was too stupid to see the possibilities or too obsessed with exacting revenge for his vanquished drones that he neglected to take advantage of the wonderful opportunity presented by Phoebe cum Mata Hari's foolhardiness and Piper's insistence that this exposure mess could be dealt with after "we deal with Phoebe and the Swarm King".

Opportunity can be small or large. In the case of All Hell Breaks Loose, Phoebe's obsession with "saving" Cole had the consequence of splitting up the Charmed Ones at a crucial time and isolating Leo from the remaining two sisters. It also afforded the Source the opportunity to exact the maximum amount from the Charmed Ones as they desperately sought to reverse time.

Blame whomever you will, but please try to appreciate the story in its entirety and complexity. If you wish to find fault, blame the writers for concocting the character of GI Alice, expert sniper who is able to elude the SFPD by a single bounce upon her beat up VW bus.