Prue's Death - Could it have been avoided

[whitelightertony]

Or perhaps they'll get new actresses to portray the sisters . . . or their descendants.

The Charmed Ones' descendants - - sure, that could potentially work.

New actresses to portray Prue, Piper, Phoebe, and Paige...no.

Not unless it took place when they were really elderly, and they called it Charmed: The Golden Years.

[Kit-the-cat]

We have to be grateful for Prues Death, because it opened a door for Paige. And we dont, and will never no if Paige would still of been introduced, if Prue had lived. Personally i felt Paige a 'more interesting' character but at times 'annoying'. As a die hard Piper fan, i would of stopped watching the show had Piper died.
But back to the topic at hand.

Phoebe is to blame. Once again she followed her 'sex drive' and went off to find Cole, abandoning her sisters. In AHBL Phoebe showed how she truly feels about her sisters, despite later episodes where she 'claims' her sisters are the most important, in fact Cole seemed to be more important in this case.
But then again Piper and Prue did claim that they had 'vanquished' Shax, and phoebe wasn't there so she didn't know if it was a ' complete' vanquish.

If we're looking at people to blame then blame all three.
Phoebe played a bigger part in abandoing them,
But the other two did claim that he had been vanquished, leading phoebe to believe it was safe to flee to the underworld and follow her libido.

[ljones]

Phoebe is to blame. Once again she followed her 'sex drive' and went off to find Cole, abandoning her sisters. In

So, Prue's action of dragging Piper out of the house to hunt down Shax . . . and exposing them to the media had no impact upon her death? Hmmmm . . . find that hard to believe.

Sorry, but my opinion stands. I believe that Prue was the main catalyst behind her death. I feel that her insistence upon hunting down Shax, instead of remaining in the manor to set up a defense to protect the doctor, set the entire incident in motion. As the "Sin Francisco" episode had hinted, her pride turned out to be her downfall.

[foxfire]

Prue's death, ultimately wasn't a one person's to blame kind of thing. Here's the list of people who contributed to her untimely death:

1) The Source. He was the one who sent Shax and he was also the one who prevented Phoebe/Leo leaving on time.

2) Phoebe. She had to go down after her lover. He's a big demon boy, he could have handled himself fine... but noooo she has to leave her sisters.

3) Leo. He should have remained with Prue and Piper. He was at risk by going into the underworld.

4) Prue. Yeah, she followed her impulses and went after Shax. Which she probably shouldn't have.

5) The producers. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb people who killed off Prue. GRRR.

[MarAcev]

3) Leo. He should have remained with Prue and Piper. He was at risk by going into the underworld.

My poor Leo is getting blamed... he did warn them that he wouldn't be able to hear their call.

After all, Prue didn't die when Leo didn't hear them calling, she died when Leo was unavailable because he went looking for Phoebe, who went to the underworld looking for Cole, couldn't make it time to heal Prue before she died. So, if we think about it, the two people mostly responsible for Prue's death were Prue herself for starting the media frenzy by going after Shax in public and Phoebe for going to the underworld and forcing the family healer to go after her.

[foxfire]

It still makes me pretty mad that the writers had the balls to create the Cleaners after Prue's death and then made it so that they were around for a long time. How they didn't even bother to make the Charmed Ones ask about it.

[whitelightertony]

foxfire...add the SFPD to your list of who to blame - - the way they handled the entire situation was just AWFUL (not to mention: how could they not notice Alice Hicks sprawled on the top of that vehicle with a giant weapon in her hands?).

It still makes me pretty mad that the writers had the balls to create the Cleaners after Prue's death and then made it so that they were around for a long time. How they didn't even bother to make the Charmed Ones ask about it.

It's possible that The Cleaners possessed a certain level of precognition that enabled them to foresee that Tempus would reverse time, and exposure would be erased on its own.

[foxfire]

It's still pretty silly to make them up after they did the whole exposure = big deal thing in AHBL. I mean, I still don't like the idea of the Cleaners. They just shouldn't exist.

I have another weird question, why didn't people question what they saw? If you ask me, I'd think the tape the reporter got was fake and there was added special effects.

It was also proven it wasn't live because she later played it back for the station and they clearly saw it for the first time.

[whitelightertony]

If you ask me, I'd think the tape the reporter got was fake and there was added special effects.

It was also proven it wasn't live because she later played it back for the station and they clearly saw it for the first time.

I thought the female reporter was there in person the first time they wounded Shax on the street? However, yes, I'd imagine there would be quite a few viewers who'd be skeptical that the whole thing was a hoax. But the station would still run it, because of the tabloid-esque sensationalism of the whole story.

However, when Prue and Piper vanquish/wound Shax outside of the hospital, there were enough spectators there as witnesses to verify the story.

[ljones]

maracev2 said:

3) Leo. He should have remained with Prue and Piper. He was at risk by going into the underworld.

My poor Leo is getting blamed... he did warn them that he wouldn't be able to hear their call.

After all, Prue didn't die when Leo didn't hear them calling, she died when Leo was unavailable because he went looking for Phoebe, who went to the underworld looking for Cole, couldn't make it time to heal Prue before she died. So, if we think about it, the two people mostly responsible for Prue's death were Prue herself for starting the media frenzy by going after Shax in public and Phoebe for going to the underworld and forcing the family healer to go after her.

Unless I'm mistaken, wasn't Leo convinced that they had successfully vanquished Shax, but Prue . . . well, ordered him to learn the truth from the Elders? And as I also recalled, Prue had no problems with Phoebe going to the Source's Realm in search of Cole and said so (check one of my earlier posts). Piper only seemed concerned that Phoebe would end up disappointed with Cole. Apparently, they were not worried that Phoebe would not be around to help them . . . until it was too late.

Nope, I'm placing most of the blame on Prue's shoulders for setting everything in motion with her decision to go after Shax. Or . . . one could blame the Source for putting Shax on the trail of that doctor.

I thought the female reporter was there in person the first time they wounded Shax on the street?

The reporter and her camera crew were there when Piper first "vanquished" Shax. And they caught the entire incident on camera.

[vandergraafk]

Actually, Charmed did not do exposure justice in this episode. It simply accepted as fact that everything that the camera captured on film fully exposed magic. How so?

A horrific swirling mass appears out of nothing and vanishes minutes later. A female is observed to throw up her hands as the strange mass disappears. How to explain that?

Now, the mass media probably cares less about explanation and more about WOW. This certainly would qualify as a WOW story. The sisters, of course, could easily be identified - and were. Maybe if some enterprising journalist had probed, he or she might have stumbled on the real danger this bit of exposure posed. Darryl Morris would really have come under scrutiny since he (and Andy) had been closely associated with the Charmed Ones for now three years.

Of course, none of this happens in the episode. Instead, we are treated to a mass media hell bent on riding the tail of a (truly) bigger story. And, they are in luck. Lojacking Prue's car leads them to a scene where Piper and Prue are captured on film incanting a spell to make Shax vanquish. He does disappear. He cannot, of course, be vanquished without a power of three spell. No matter. The second exposure really jeopardized the Charmed Two.

Thank goodness, ljones, is not a judge: at least I hope not. Perhaps she is one of the federal prosecutors who replaced the eight or nine fired by Attorney General Gonzalez. Gosh, I hope not! Where do we see evidence of the careful weighing of responsibility? Prue was reckless and overconfident. Piper was getting too conceited about her own, new and improved magical abilities. And, Phoebe: she was off saving her beau and ignoring the risk posed by Shax, a demon she knew could only be vanquished by a power of three spell, since she had read the BOS and had concluded that her incantation of the spell by herself had merely wounded Shax, not vanquished him. By what criteria, do you assert that Prue bears most of the blame? I am just baffled by such bombastic assertions.

[ljones]

Actually, Charmed did not do exposure justice in this episode. It simply accepted as fact that everything that the camera captured on film fully exposed magic. How so?

Are you always going to use bad writing as an excuse for some of the Charmed Ones' more serious mistakes?

[vandergraafk]

How is this evidence of bad writing? It is evidence that some of the fans who conflate these two instances of exposure haven't thought through what was depicted. Bad writing is bad writing. It is not an excuse, but a glaring weakness that unfortunately makes it difficult to render authoritative opinions.

[ljones]

vandergraafk said:

How is this evidence of bad writing? It is evidence that some of the fans who conflate these two instances of exposure haven't thought through what was depicted. Bad writing is bad writing. It is not an excuse, but a glaring weakness that unfortunately makes it difficult to render authoritative opinions.

Yeah . . . right. Whatever.

[vandergraafk]

Sorrrrry. I forgot: your aim is not to render authoritative judgements. It's merely to poison the air with more venomous opinion. How could I be so naive?

[ljones]

vandergraafk said:

Actually, Charmed did not do exposure justice in this episode. It simply accepted as fact that everything that the camera captured on film fully exposed magic. How so?

A horrific swirling mass appears out of nothing and vanishes minutes later. A female is observed to throw up her hands as the strange mass disappears. How to explain that?

Now, the mass media probably cares less about explanation and more about WOW. This certainly would qualify as a WOW story. The sisters, of course, could easily be identified - and were. Maybe if some enterprising journalist had probed, he or she might have stumbled on the real danger this bit of exposure posed. Darryl Morris would really have come under scrutiny since he (and Andy) had been closely associated with the Charmed Ones for now three years.

Of course, none of this happens in the episode. Instead, we are treated to a mass media hell bent on riding the tail of a (truly) bigger story. And, they are in luck. Lojacking Prue's car leads them to a scene where Piper and Prue are captured on film incanting a spell to make Shax vanquish. He does disappear. He cannot, of course, be vanquished without a power of three spell. No matter. The second exposure really jeopardized the Charmed Two.

Thank goodness, ljones, is not a judge: at least I hope not. Perhaps she is one of the federal prosecutors who replaced the eight or nine fired by Attorney General Gonzalez. Gosh, I hope not! Where do we see evidence of the careful weighing of responsibility? Prue was reckless and overconfident. Piper was getting too conceited about her own, new and improved magical abilities. And, Phoebe: she was off saving her beau and ignoring the risk posed by Shax, a demon she knew could only be vanquished by a power of three spell, since she had read the BOS and had concluded that her incantation of the spell by herself had merely wounded Shax, not vanquished him. By what criteria, do you assert that Prue bears most of the blame? I am just baffled by such bombastic assertions.

Why is that every d**n time I harbor a different opinion than yours and refuse to change it, you have to insult me? Why do you do it? I am not going to state that I'm perfect and God knows, I am aware of my flaws - including my tendency to be confrontational and "bombastic", as you have stated. But why do you have to undermine someone's intelligence every time he or she disagrees with you? I've noticed that you do this to others. Every time someone disagrees with you, you just don't state an opposite opinion, you have to insult their intelligence as well or respond with a condescending attitude. Do you feel that this is the only way you can get others to agree with you?

And by the way, I still disagree with you in regard to Prue's death . . . more than ever:

[spiritsas]

V, LJ: Allow me, if you please, to play the part of moderator and the voice of reality and reason, if you will.

First off, this is a discussion board, not a "who is correct" board when it comes to opinions. The only one who knows exactly what was going on with a storyline and what they wanted to come out of it (even if it turned out a little different or open to interpretation), is Brad Kerns. Prior to that it was Burge, of course. My point being is that you can interpret or expand various ideas, actions, even mistakes in the show is many ways. Is any one way correct? Not really, but only one way is what Kerns (and the writers) had in mind. Everything else is supposition and we all know, since the Charmed world or Charmedverse, is not the most consistent in TV, then there are bound to be issues and problems, from season to season, and episode to episode where things don't make sense. Unless one imposes their own ideas and interpretations.

Brad Kerns has himself noted issues, with changing writers over the years, in keeping some concepts consistent. Think real world in making a TV show in which you have 8 days to shoot and not enough time to go back and watch your old episodes or read old scripts to see you got some small piece of the current episode 100% right. Do each of us even remember, with 100% clarity, what we did exactly years ago in various situations.

Again, my point is some of this is about Charmed TV show facts and some is about what we each feel is the correct interpretation of a show's events and what makes sense and what doesn't.

So, I'll add two things and then step off my soapbox. First, let's respect each other, even if we disagree with their opinions. We're all adults so let's act like adults and agree to disagree and either move on or take the argument off line to the personal messages (still maintaining respect for each other).

Second, and this is very important. It was a TV show. None of this actually happened, so why argue over what may have happened or should have happened to the point of disrespect to each other. There will be no winner to any such discussion/argument as the show is gone, the cast had gladly moved on, and the producer has zero plans to do anything Charmed in the future (of his life).

This whole site is not about being right, it's about sharing a common interest, with differing opinions. Enough, and perhaps too much, said.

[vandergraafk]

Spiritkas,

I see much sense in what you have to say. However, I have a problem when someone one proclaims their desire to go negative simply for the purpose of going negative, i.e., to anger everyone else. Bandy about words such as rape, and whatever else was used in the discussion about Piper nearly dying from arroyo fever and shouldn't we expect people to get angry. And, then, plead the part of the innocent one, that is, we don't respect someone's right to engage in hyperbole or exaggerated discourse for the sole purpose of getting us angry. Frankly, I have long since tired of having someone come on a site solely for the purpose of making the rest of us angry.

Yes, people are entitled to their opinions, however ridiculous they seem. But, and this was pointed out in this category, careful what you wish for. If you want to write ludicrous stuff, prepare for the inevitable reaction. This is going to continue until that person decides that there's no fun in provoking the rest of us.

Now, perhaps that seems like a rant. I invite any and everyone to re-read contributions on Hyde School Reunion or Valhalley of the Dolls to get a flavor for the mean spiritedness of the comments. Then, decide who's out of line here.

What I thought the point was, and hope it still is, is that this site is a community of viewers who through an exchange of ideas come to a better understanding of a show they perhaps like to a fair extent. Yes, we can disagree. After all, it's a TV show, as you point out, one where it is difficult for us to even assess in its entirety because most of us are not privilege to ideas that were abandoned in writers meetings, clips that ended up on the cutting room floor, etc. Some of this knowledge can be gleaned and shared from interviews that appear in the press - past or present. I know I have been enlightened by what I've read in Charmed magazine, despite the obviously juvenile nature of its target audience. I've revised my opinion on many things several times. However, I am not about to accept the illogic of someone whose sole purpose is to foment rancor. It needs to be commented on and pointed out.

And, ljones, why would I ever expect you to agree with me? Indeed, I am shocked when we do find small points of agreement - and I usually note them. Frankly, my aim is not to convince you of anything. I think that is beyond the task of any mere mortal. What I do seek to point out is the utter absurdity of most of your musings! Nor will I simply allow to accuse me of being a lackey of the Charmed Ones simply because I do not share your belief that Hyde School Reunion has anything meaningful to say about the moral behavior of the Charmed Ones. Believe what you will.

Spiritkas, I must, however, beg to disagree with your all too casual dismissal of analysis. Charmed is a work of fiction that, whatever the limits of TV fiction, can still be submitted to the standard tools of literary analysis. That I use such tools when discussing particular points is quite obvious. It lends perhaps a bit of transparency and perspective to where I am coming from. Is it fair then to simply dismiss my musings as an apologist for Charmed. (Re-read the postings and decide for yourself.)

And, last but by no means least, ljones, whatever happened to your promise/threat never ever to respond to any of my postings? Gosh, I wish!

[ljones]

V, LJ: Allow me, if you please, to play the part of moderator and the voice of reality and reason, if you will.

First off, this is a discussion board, not a "who is correct" board when it comes to opinions.

It would be nice if you could explain this to vandergraaftk as well. But since you had decided to direct this message to me, I think I'll ignore it.

[spiritsas]

Actually, if you looked, you'd see my comment was addressed to both of you and possibly more so to V. However, if you choose to ignore it, that's your business. Still, you should consider that everyone will eventually ignore all your posts, making this site far less fun for you. Your choice.