Prue's Death - Could it have been avoided

[pipercharmedphreak]

christy could have been a perfect final innocent but it just didnt work out that way!!!

[dustwitch]

59/m/mn who also thinks the show is unique and interesting- as is this board. just to delurk- shows that get beyond five years with strength generally have changed, often more than once in their lifespan. the "charmedverse" vs "real life" competing bases of analysis have to accommodate each other. isn't it likely that both the plot of prue's death and the "real life" departure of shannen helped piper do such a fantastic job of grieving for prue in the episodes that followed? and when phoebe meets rose at the funeral, she neither knows who rose is in the plot; nor does she know what rose will mean for the show's "real life" development. i think behind the scenes tension may often enrich a production.
youtube.com/watch?v=b9NMrj7bY3w

[RP Muse]

esmeralda said:

Well, Piper the hypocritical b*tch was *my* least-favorite part, but Billie (not Christy--she was the perfect final innocent, had they used her properly) definitely gave her a race for her money!

If you are going to call Piper a hypocrite then talk about Billie too. All through out the season she was determined to save her sister and was selfish in doing so. Then Piper wants to save Leo and it's wrong? Billie was the b*tch in the season. The Charmed ones tried to help her out and she treated them like crap because she was too focused on her sister. Way to show gratitude. Yes, everyone made mistakes, Piper even. Still Billie was a selfish b*tch.

[MarAcev]

I am sitting here wondering what did Piper do that seem hypocritical during the whole Billie debacle.

[RP Muse]

Yeah I was thinking that too. No character is pefect but Billie was far from it. Piper was a lot better person than Billie the Buffy wanna be Slayer was.

[Esmeralda]

I call Piper a hypocritcal b*tch for treating Leo like her own personal errand boy and for making him get ready to divorce her, then have the NERVE to be upset when he dies and go around griping about him the rest of the season. Oh, BROTHER! He was probably happier frozen than being with her and being treated the way he was. Hopefully she learned her lesson and treated him better once he was unfrozen. Their love story was my favorite part of the entire series but to have her treating him that way at the beginning of S8 totally ruined the last seaon for me, a lot more than Billie, who at least was consistent in the way she treated her own sister. I hated her being a "Thuperwitch" as one of my friends called her and I hated her taking over the last season that should've concentrated on ALL the sisters not just Piper, but I would've preferred all three sisters blown up to kingdom come at the end of Season and remembering Piper and Leo as they were as compared to that! "Vayo con Leos" would've been one of my favorite episodes if it wasn't for the relationship they showed them having at the beginning of the season. Now I can't watch it without screaming at Piper for being so hypocritical!

[whitelightertony]

Wow, someone has "Piper issues"....

[Esmeralda]

LOL Yep! LOTS of them! And ALMOST as many Freebie/PhoeME issues!

[RP Muse]

Well personally I think the show went downhill after season 3. I liked Season 6 with Chris but that was when Leo and Piper's
relationship started to loose it's appeal. Season 5 was too fairytale for me. I hated and 7 it was stupid with the avatars and 8 was a joke. Personally they should have ended the show when Prue died cause it's not the same with out her. Or killed off Freebie!

[MarAcev]

I call Piper a hypocritcal b*tch for treating Leo like her own personal errand boy and for making him get ready to divorce her

Not that ANY of this belongs in this thread, but I distinctly remember Leo leaving Piper, by herself and with a baby to become an elder. How is she being a b*tch by wanting a divorce when HE wasn't coming back?

Once he's back, after two more times of leaving her, one of those times PREGNANT, why is it hypocritical of her to mourn his loss and feel like crap because her husband and father of her two sons is no longer there? I think she bent over backwards for Leo after he knocked her up and left her. She fought to keep him around while he was going nuts, forgave and backed him up when he became an avatar. Wow, she really sounds like b*tch.

[RP Muse]

I agree with that Leo has a lot of faults too. Piper did put up with a lot. Still personally. Leo going crazy was a stupid plot. I hated the whole premise of the Avatars. Like I said the show went downhill after season 3. It did not have the same appeal. Oh well though I still loved Season 6! Still Piper is no Biatch!

[vandergraafk]

I confess a bit of confusion here. Is the point being made that the character of Billie was flawed from the beginning? Or, that the character, as it unfolded, became more problematic? Or, did Billie's character only become annoying as the Ultimate Battle unfolded?

As I have pointed out elsewhere, I rather liked the addition of a new character. It certainly brought some issues to the fore that had never really been addressed in past seasons. I accept that the issues weren't really developed. (That's another matter!) I liked the idea that the Charmed Ones might interact with other supernatural witches; and, I liked the fact that Billie served as a useful foil to challenge the continued glamouring of the Charmed Ones. Rewitched succeeded quite nicely, I thought, in this regard.

After this, however, the presence of Billie grew problematic, in my view, because of the tremendous powers she was given. (Purely, in terms of power, she has more punch than either Phoebe or Paige. Why?) Worse: the axeing of Leo pushed Billie center stage. For a show about the Charmed Ones, Billie should never have occupied center stage.

Finally, the absurd Ultimate Battle scenario turned an interesting enough nascent witch into an obnoxious bimbo blinded by devotion to her sister. Maybe this could have worked if the character of Christy not been so one-dimensional. Moral ambiguity might have been exploited here in a much more practical way than it ever way. Instead, we figure out immediately that Christy is uncool.

[foxfire]

I also liked the introduction of Billie and I think she served a very unique purpose at the start of season eight. She really helped remind them what it meant to be witches. Within the first half of the season, I don't think she occupies the centre stage. However, I have not gotten to the whole Christy being alive and evil storyline yet. I've only seen the "Billie wants to find Christy and will step on everyone's toes to do it" part.

I'd also want to say just in general that all the characters on Charmed are flawed. Each and every one of them has done something that one of us has questionned. But without the flaws, we wouldn't like them as much. Personally, I tend to resent the idea of perfection (this is probably why I hate Superman with a burning passion). Would we all like Piper if she were this nice demure girl who didn't argue so much with her spouse? No! We'd probably really dislike her because she'd be considered a whimp.

When you don't give characters enough flaws, they become uninteresting or they become too unlikable. Billie has tremedous power and control. Do I like that? Nope. Wyatt is made out to be like a God. Do I like that either? No way.

Now I can tie this all back into the thread. Prue's death was caused by character flaws. It was Phoebe's and Prue's flaws that showed. Phoebe's flaw of being too into love and Prue's flaw being her own pride. What would have happened if Prue and Phoebe were to stop and think before they acted? Prue would still be around. However, that's just not the case because the writers didn't want it that way.

[Esmeralda]

I agree totally that characters have to have flaws. Saints are very boring, especially in fiction. But at the same time, they have to be able to rise above their flaws and do what has been shown to be right. This is especially true for characters with powers. If the character with powers do what has been shown to be evil, then they're no better than the characters that they're fighting. That's what I disliked most about what happened to the Halliwells through the series. Piper had to keep wanting what she couldn't have or she wouldn't be Piper. Phoebe had to keep "looking for love in all the wrong places" or she wouldn't be Phoebe. Leo had to be "take care of my charges; they're more important than anything, even if my wife doesn't understand that" or he wouldn't be Leo. Paige, well, I never did figure out what Paige was. Prue, as has been pointed out, was much too proud, thinking she could handle anything, hence her death.

But at the same time, they had to all be better than their enemies, the demons, or they shouldn't have been able to keep their powers. To whom much has been given, much is expected. The last season showed how very little they cared for the reason why they were given their powers--to protect innocents, not just themselves or their own families--when they walked away at the end of S7, they should've lost their powers that moment and not gotten them back until they were ready to use them properly. Truly, Season 8 should've ended either like S3 showing all of the Charmed Ones dead, or like S4 should've ended--the Charmed Ones admitting that they've failed in their second desiny--of raising good kids, since we'll never know for sure if Wyatt's powers ever went to his head and he turned evil again--and giving up their powers and so they and their family could've happily living their normal lives.

It's why I'm glad at least one Charmed One died a heroine. Maybe it was due to her biggest fault--her pride--but she died doing what the Charmed Ones were supposed to be doing--protecting an innocent who wasn't a part of the family. I like to think that that's why we don't see Phoebe and Paige at the end of Forever Charmed, that they also died protecting innocents, but I somehow doubt it. Paige, perhaps; PhoeME, probably not.

[Kit-the-cat]

In a nutt shell Billie was ok! But not in Charmed. Billie made me realise how much i didn't want a season 8.
Piper was needy in the way that she craved Leo's attention all the time,
Prue....it couldnt of been avoided. TCO's destiny was also to find Paige..although that still could of happened, it would of been more interesting i think

[ljones]

Phoebe had to keep "looking for love in all the wrong places" or she wouldn't be Phoebe.

And she had to maintain her immaturity . . . which she did up to the very end.

It's why I'm glad at least one Charmed One died a heroine. Maybe it was due to her biggest fault--her pride--but she died doing what the Charmed Ones were supposed to be doing--protecting an innocent who wasn't a part of the family.

Despite her flaws . . . and God knows she had them, I must admit that I had missed Prue. She was the most complex and interesting character of the bunch.

Given Shannen's own history of bad decisions, there's no reason to suppose she was any more correct in her assessment of Charmed's appeal than any other would-be TV critic.

Shannen and the critics were correct. Just because the show remained on the air for another five years, doesn't mean that it was wonderful during that period. A good number of medicore and bad shows have remained on the air for years, while some very good shows have not lasted very long.

[vandergraafk]

And you know this because ... Oh, that's right. You're right and we're always wrong! I'm afraid I couldn't disagree more. But then, I would at least try to develop an argument to state my case. Critics rarely do that. They are only looking for the right phrase that will get them noticed. Even Mr. Topping in his quite tantalizing book Triquetra is too easily dismissive of too many episodes, though his overall point that scratch Charmed beneath the surface and a lot of logical fallacies emerge is a point sometimes well taken!

[ljones]

vandergraafk said:

And you know this because ... Oh, that's right. You're right and we're always wrong! I'm afraid I couldn't disagree more. But then, I would at least try to develop an argument to state my case. Critics rarely do that. They are only looking for the right phrase that will get them noticed. Even Mr. Topping in his quite tantalizing book Triquetra is too easily dismissive of too many episodes, though his overall point that scratch Charmed beneath the surface and a lot of logical fallacies emerge is a point sometimes well taken!

Of course I know. I'm also aware that I have better taste than you. I'm not the idiot who is claiming that a mediocre show like CHARMED was actually worthy of critical acclaim.

[mom2wyattnchris]

Prue's death could only have been avoided if they found a replacement actress for Shannon. Really now, how many times did did Piper die...8 or something? IMO Prue didn't go out like I would think they would kill one of the charmed ones...nowhere near!...she died like a mortal not a witch.

They wanted to add a "twist" to the story when Shannon decided ot leave the show and how they did it was adding Paige. I think it was a good move in my book. I dont think that replacing Prue's character with another actress would have made the show as sucessful as it was.

I don't think Shannon could last 8 seasons on a show these days anyways.

[Kit-the-cat]

If they did want to keep Prue, they would of needed a different actresses but didn't Shannen put copyrights on that character???