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Post by kiriashra on Jul 1, 2008 14:43:59 GMT -5
I don't think that they could have lasted. He was like a drug she just couldn't get out of her system, but like most drugs he was destructive instead of productive.
It was a intense relationship, that's for sure but from my experience intense relationship's are not always good ones. They usually end bad.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Jul 1, 2008 17:32:34 GMT -5
I don't think that they could have lasted. He was like a drug she just couldn't get out of her system, but like most drugs he was destructive instead of productive. It was a intense relationship, that's for sure but from my experience intense relationship's are not always good ones. They usually end bad. I disagree. I think they could have worked it out, if the writers had allowed their characters to develop and mature during the second half of the series' run. Look at Piper and Leo. They almost didn't make it. |
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pubesy
Witch
"If I could dream at all, it would be about you. And I'm not ashamed of it." - Edward Cullen
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Post by pubesy on Jul 1, 2008 22:49:04 GMT -5
ok, lets just look at this simply!
phoebe, a charmed one destined to fight demons to protect the world yadda yadda, married to THE most powerful demon imaginable. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE LONG TERM.
it like trying to marry George bush's daughter to the osama bin laden's son!
HAHAHA....makes me laugh
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Post by whitelightertony on Jul 2, 2008 4:43:18 GMT -5
I think the only way it would have worked between Phoebe and Cole would have been if they had taken a firm stand against everyone who tried to come between them.
A tall order, to be sure.
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pubesy
Witch
"If I could dream at all, it would be about you. And I'm not ashamed of it." - Edward Cullen
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Post by pubesy on Jul 2, 2008 6:53:31 GMT -5
they were never that strong a couple though. well, they were strong.... but not strong enough to stand against,
the sisters
the elders
the extended family
the source of all evil
bounty hunters
the entire magical community
well, you get the drift!
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Holly Combs
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Post by Holly Combs on Jul 2, 2008 7:54:49 GMT -5
if they relly wanted to be together they should have bonded coles powers
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Jul 2, 2008 16:42:53 GMT -5
Bin Laden's son and George Bush's daughter. I don't think you want me to comment on that.
By the way, nothing in this life is simple as we would like it to be.
I don't see how binding Cole's powers would have helped. After all, the show proved that the Halliwells' powers could be just as dangerous . . . not only to evil, but to innocents as well.
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Post by whitelightertony on Jul 2, 2008 18:50:56 GMT -5
Pubesy, why should all of those people have veto power over who Phoebe or Cole want to spend their lives with? Neither Phoebe nor Cole was ever strong enough to tell the instigators to take a hike.
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pubesy
Witch
"If I could dream at all, it would be about you. And I'm not ashamed of it." - Edward Cullen
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Post by pubesy on Jul 2, 2008 19:51:07 GMT -5
they shouldn't have veto power. i agree.
but like any society, social pressure plays an important role in the way a person can live, and the choices they can make.
sure social pressure is not absolute power, and a person can chose to fight against such social pressure. but the social pressure is present, all the same.
phoebe and cole would have received such social pressure from those groups mentioned before... the shouldn't - but they would all the same.
The elders would have tried to make her life as difficult as they did when piper tried to marry leo. the sisters may have appeared supportive, but quietly, they would have disapproved. Grams would have stuck her nose in and given her two cents worth!
and as far as the demonic community, cole being wed to phoebe, a charmed one, would enraged the source, and he would further desire cole's head on a platter! hence more bounty hunters would be after cole.
i just dont think phoebe would have been strong enough to deal with her family's disapproval in the long term.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Jul 2, 2008 23:13:33 GMT -5
If those individuals allow social pressures to play an important role in their lives and decisions. Unfortunately for both Phoebe and Cole, they were too insecure in their own ways to dismiss the social pressures they had encountered.
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pubesy
Witch
"If I could dream at all, it would be about you. And I'm not ashamed of it." - Edward Cullen
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Post by pubesy on Jul 2, 2008 23:29:22 GMT -5
i don't think it is about insecurities, as such.
they did try to ignore such social pressure, for a while, a whole season. but i don't think it is social pressure that is ENTIRELY responsible for the breakup. in the end, they were just two different people, who did try to make it work, but in the end, phoebe agreed with socities opinion. it was not meant to be
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Jul 2, 2008 23:34:44 GMT -5
I think they had the potential to be a successful couple. I feel that the idea that Phoebe and Cole were not meant to be, because she was a witch and he was a half-demon was nothing more than a load of crap on the writers' part.
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Post by whitelightertony on Jul 3, 2008 4:41:10 GMT -5
So why didn't Piper allow such pressures to get in the way of her relationship with Leo?
The only time when Piper gave up on her and Leo's marriage was when Leo left her at the end of Season 5.
Even when the Angel of Death told Piper he was being forced to take Leo away from her, Piper stood up to EVERYONE -- the Elders, the Avatars, the Angel of Destiny -- to keep from losing Leo again.
Was Piper just emotionally stronger than Phoebe?
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pubesy
Witch
"If I could dream at all, it would be about you. And I'm not ashamed of it." - Edward Cullen
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Post by pubesy on Jul 3, 2008 5:25:25 GMT -5
i think piper was an aggressive, more assertive character, not so much emotionally stronger. all 4 sisters were emotionally strong individuals.
also piper and leo is different in that, other than phoebe's "last minute, cold feet, scared of the elders moment" piper had all 3 sisters full support. Phoebe did not have that with cole. I believe that makes an enormous difference.
also, piper did not have to worry so much about the demonic underworld, whereas phoebe did as she, a charmed one was dating a wanted demon.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Jul 3, 2008 21:46:35 GMT -5
I believe that such pressures did get in the way of Piper's relationship with Leo on several occasions - when Leo left Piper in mid-Season 1, when he told her that he couldn't be with her again in late Season 1, when she decided to start dating Dan Gordon, while on the rebound from Leo during Season 2; when the Elders interrupted their first marriage ceremony in early Season 3; and when Leo was an Elder between the Season 5 finale and when he became an Avatar in early and mid-Season 7.
One of the more disturbing things about their relationship occurred in Season 8. I was disturbed that Piper and her sisters had allowed the Elders to manipulate them into working for Whitelighters again with the promise of resurrecting Leo following his near fatal accident. Once again, Piper had displayed her inability to let go of loved ones. But instead of allowing her anger to get the best of her, as she had done following Prue's death and when Leo became an Elder, she allowed herself and her sisters to be manipulated by the Elders with the promise of bringing Leo back to life. I find that a sad reflection of her character.
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pubesy
Witch
"If I could dream at all, it would be about you. And I'm not ashamed of it." - Edward Cullen
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Post by pubesy on Jul 4, 2008 0:27:33 GMT -5
i don't think it is fair to call piper's desire to keep her family together a character flaw.
piper loved leo, so of course, like any loving couple and family, piper would do anything to save the life of her husband. the angel promised piper that after the ultimate battle, they would return leo. so of course piper would work towards fighting the ultimate battle. and who could blame her?
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Jul 6, 2008 23:33:04 GMT -5
I wasn't talking about Piper's desire to keep her family together. I'm talking about Piper's inability to face the loss of a loved one - either through death or otherwise.
We've seen this on three different occasions:
*Prue's death
*Leo's ascension to Elder status and his defection from her and Wyatt
*Leo being on the verge of death in S8
We're talking about three separate occasions, here. Piper is not perfect. And one of her imperfections that has been made clear on the show is her inability to deal with loss.
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pubesy
Witch
"If I could dream at all, it would be about you. And I'm not ashamed of it." - Edward Cullen
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Post by pubesy on Jul 7, 2008 5:49:55 GMT -5
i don't think they are character flaws - they are classic signs of grief and loss!
anger and denial - at the loss of her sister and the chace of losing leo
bargaining- with death to save her husband, as well as the angel of destiny. trying to bargain with her grams and he elders to see prue one more time.
Depression, loneliness, helplessness, blaming others - the whole downward spiral after prue's death. blaming paige. then blaming christie and billie for taking away leo.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Jul 7, 2008 9:49:12 GMT -5
i don't think they are character flaws - they are classic signs of grief and loss! anger and denial - at the loss of her sister and the chace of losing leo bargaining- with death to save her husband, as well as the angel of destiny. trying to bargain with her grams and he elders to see prue one more time. Depression, loneliness, helplessness, blaming others - the whole downward spiral after prue's death. blaming paige. then blaming christie and billie for taking away leo. Then we disagree. If you want to continue to believe that Piper was perfect or near perfect . . . fine. That's something I don't believe and never have. |
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pubesy
Witch
"If I could dream at all, it would be about you. And I'm not ashamed of it." - Edward Cullen
Posts: 1,171
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Post by pubesy on Jul 7, 2008 23:18:28 GMT -5
piper was NOT perfect, none of the sisters were.
but to consider the grief of losing or potentially losing a sister or husband a character flaw is incredibly unfair.
i suppose you have never lost someone special to you?
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