Why is Phoebe so selfish?

[Cara Halliwell]

I think all the charmed ones have been selfish at certain times, so i dont think its a huge deal. prue was selfish when she thought aboult herself before piper's wedding. she talked all about herself getting married. also, when she went out and thought she would meet a buckland's client, even though it was a demon, she didnt care that Piper and Phoebe were worried about her. Piper was selfish when she almost got the girl that turned into a wolf killed, along with her true love. also, when she almost risked kate's life because the elders wouldn't give leo back. and phoebe was selfish when she didn't want miles to die. it just depends on the situations in each episode. plus, everyone is selfish once in a while.

[xoFeliciaFinleyxo]

I totally agree.

[whitelightertony]

If someone else's kids were innocents Piper would have to save them.

But why would Piper saving someone else's kids require Piper to sacrifice her own children?

[foxfire]

It could happen you never know..... it's like that new movie with Keanu Reeves where Jennifer Connely's character has to decide if she wants to live or die... if she lives the Earth dies (but she survives) but if she dies the Earth survives. It's interesting... not sure how that even works though.

Piper's the kind of girl who finds ways around things. I find she tends to live in the gray area of things while Paige tends to live in a black and white world and Phoebe changes opinions depending on her boyfriend.

[ljones]

So what's your point? Why should Piper be obligated to sacrifice her own life or her own happiness for someone else's kids? You're the one who's said that the Charmed Ones shouldn't have been obligated to battle Evil, and should have just told the Elders to take a hike early-on.

My point is that I have no problem with Piper acting in such a selfish manner. I realize that she is far from perfect. I'm pointing out that others want to view Piper as someone either perfect or near perfect. If you didn't, why bring up the point that she would sacrifice herself for her kids? What is so impressive about that?

[whitelightertony]

My point is that I have no problem with Piper acting in such a selfish manner. I realize that she is far from perfect. I'm pointing out that others want to view Piper as someone either perfect or near perfect. If you didn't, why bring up the point that she would sacrifice herself for her kids? What is so impressive about that?

I think people meant that Piper would sacrifice her own life if it resulted in saving her children.

I don't see how Piper would be forced to make the decision to sacrifice her life for OTHER PEOPLE'S children? Also, you were the one who brought up the example of Piper's alleged selfishness in "Once Upon A time."

[ljones]

I think people meant that Piper would sacrifice her own life if it resulted in saving her children.

I don't see how Piper would be forced to make the decision to sacrifice her life for OTHER PEOPLE'S children? Also, you were the one who brought up the example of Piper's alleged selfishness in "Once Upon A time."

Piper's selfishness in "Once Upon a Time" was not alleged. It was pure selfishness and spite. And she had acknowledged this.

But someone else brought up the point that she would sacrifice her life for her children. Why? Is this supposed to be an example of her being selfless? I don't think it is, considering it's about her own kids and no one else's.


You know, it's one thing when we make mistakes in life or when a fictional character does in a story. As humans, we're imperfect. And that imperfection is usually reflected in a good story. But it is another when we pretend that our flaws don't exist or make excuses. And pretending that your favorite fictional characters are perfect strikes me as another sign of an illusional mind.

[whitelightertony]

Piper's selfishness in "Once Upon a Time" was not alleged. It was pure selfishness and spite. And she had acknowledged this.

I assume you're referring to Piper refusing to help Kate?

But someone else brought up the point that she would sacrifice her life for her children. Why? Is this supposed to be an example of her being selfless? I don't think it is, considering it's about her own kids and no one else's.

No, selfish would be if Piper just stepped aside and let Wyatt get vanquished by a fireball.

You know, it's one thing when we make mistakes in life or when a fictional character does in a story. As humans, we're imperfect. And that imperfection is usually reflected in a good story. But it is another when we pretend that our flaws don't exist or make excuses. And pretending that your favorite fictional characters are perfect strikes me as another sign of an illusional mind.

Ljones, can you quote where on this board I ever said I thought Piper was "perfect"?

[pubesy]

piper is not perfect. no one has said she was. all we have said is that it is REASONABLE or UNDERSTANDABLE for her to do/feel certain things

[ljones]

No, selfish would be if Piper just stepped aside and let Wyatt get vanquished by a fireball.

And selfish would be Piper sacrificing herself to save Wyatt. Because he is her child. If she had sacrificed herself to save someone else's child . . . especially a stranger's, I would be impressed.


Ljones, can you quote where on this board I ever said I thought Piper was "perfect"?


When did I ever accuse you of being selfish? In my last post, I was referring to some fans in general.

[pubesy]

ok, then where have any fans said everythin piper does is perfect/ she is a perfect character?

[ljones]

Jul 23, 2008 20:08:02 GMT -5 pubesy said:

ok, then where have any fans said everythin piper does is perfect/ she is a perfect character?

I don't know. But why do you keep making excuses for Piper's flaws, if you don't believe that she's perfect?

Every time I bring up Piper's flaws, someone has to make an excuse for her. Every time. You've been doing it on two different threads, Puseby.

Now, you might argue that I do the same for Cole. I don't. I have posted some criticisms about Cole that others have disagreed about.

I'm not saying that Piper is the worst character on the show. But she has flaws. And every time I mention them, someone posts an excuse for her behavior.

[foxfire]

Everyone feels the need to make excuses for their favourite characters... it's a defense mechanism. Like when people call Prue a four lettered word that begins with a "B" I get mad. (I had a little argument similar to this with one of my friends about my opinion that Buffy is the most selfish character of all the Buffy characters)

The thing is... all the characters have flaws. We take the good and the bad with our characters and it's what makes us love them. And unfortunately selfishness runs in the Halliwell genes just in different ways (Piper's weakness was her family, Phoebe's weakness was her lovelife, Paige's weakness was her independence and Prue's was her pride).

[whitelightertony]

And selfish would be Piper sacrificing herself to save Wyatt. Because he is her child. If she had sacrificed herself to save someone else's child . . . especially a stranger's, I would be impressed.

So Piper has to die in order to be selfless? And if she gives up her life for her son, she's selfish for doing so?

Gee, Piper's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't with you, Ljones!

When did I ever accuse you of being selfish? In my last post, I was referring to some fans in general.

In your previous reply to me, you railed against how fans are "making excuses" for Piper.

Ljones, did you ever consider the possibility that some people here simply DISAGREE with you when you opine that Piper's behavior in a given situation was selfish? That some people truly don't believe she was acting selfish in every little scenario you've nitpicked?

[pubesy]

I don't know. But why do you keep making excuses for Piper's flaws, if you don't believe that she's perfect?

Every time I bring up Piper's flaws, someone has to make an excuse for her. Every time. You've been doing it on two different threads, Puseby.

quite simply, because i do not see piper's grief as a character flaw!

I have not been making excuses for piper's flaws, i have merely been empathetic to her situation, and arguing that it is not a flaw to want to try and save a loved one from death!

piper is not perfect, i agree. but grief is not an imperfection. it is a normal emotion.

[ljones]

So Piper has to die in order to be selfless? And if she gives up her life for her son, she's selfish for doing so?

You know, I don't recall saying that Piper had to die in order to be selfless.

Piper is incapable of being selfless. Just about every human in existence is incapable of this. For me, selflessness is something that human beings created as an excuses to view themselves better than they actually are.

As for Piper, I would be more impressed if she had sacrificed herself to save a stranger's child, instead of her own children. That is all I was trying to hint.

quite simply, because i do not see piper's grief as a character flaw!

I have not been making excuses for piper's flaws, i have merely been empathetic to her situation, and arguing that it is not a flaw to want to try and save a loved one from death!

piper is not perfect, i agree. but grief is not an imperfection. it is a normal emotion.

You say that Piper is not perfect, yet you make another excuse for any behavior of hers that I find questionable. Again.

[pubesy]

You say that Piper is not perfect, yet you make another excuse for any behavior of hers that I find questionable. Again.

that is because i do not see grief as an imperfection.

nor do i see the desire to save a loved one as a character flaw.

i have said this numerous times.

talk to me about pipers rash decision that billie needed to be vanquished ASAP, without fact checking, or ensuring that billie was the ultimate threat. This would be a character flaw.

Talk to be about piper's short temper and blowing things up when frustrated. again, imperfect personality trait.

But once again, i repeat. grief and wanting to save a loved one are not imperfections. they are noble and credible human emotions and desires.

[ljones]

that is because i do not see grief as an imperfection.

There is grief and there is when grief goes too far. In Piper's case, she has always gone too far. A prime example would be her reaction to Prue's death . . . especially in "Hell Hath No Fury". And there was her reaction when Leo became an Elder.

[whitelightertony]

Well, unless you've ever lost a sister or a husband, you really have no place to judge Piper.

[pubesy]

you know what tony?

well said!