Cole’s hatred for Paige

[Esmeralda]

*nods* Exactly so.

That was the tragedy of their relationship - they were never truly meant to be, no matter how much they lusted after each other (I'll never call what they had love, just like I'll never call what Piper and Leo had as love - well, Leo, maybe, but not Piper - and, no, I wouldn't call what Cole had for Phoebe as love, because if he truly loved her, he never would've stalked her - that's obsession, not love), because by accepting the other as they were was accepting someone who went against everything they believed in, especially Phoebe.

The fact that she *couldn't* accept him when she thought that he couldn't stay good (her error, but the way the show was set up), shows just how much she *had* matured since becoming Charmed - "Freebie" would've accepted him as a demon and had all sorts of fun with him being evil herself. The only way where she *wasn't* mature was her inability to accept responsibility for turning her back on her sisters and willingly becoming Queen of the Underworld - something Cole didn't do - he was being influenced by the Source of All Evil.

[iamthesun]

I agree with what you said about Phoebe maturing Es. Their relationship was never plain sailing, but I can't help thinking they made a good pairing. I believe that Cole loved Phoebe in the beginning, so much so that it drove him to obsess over her when he couldn't have her.

[Esmeralda]

Obsession is not love. He was obsessed with her - he couldn't love her. Just like her, he could never accept her for who and what she was (or he would NOT have stalked her but would've let her go), but always wanted to change her into something she wasn't - someone who could love Belthazor as well as Cole - something she couldn't do.

They made a gorgeous couple in lust, but never in love.

I HATE shows that make obsession seem like love - it means it's okay for someone to stalk someone they're obsessed with, and that's very simply not true.

I haven't watched enough other supernatural shows to know whether they count obsession as love - if so, it's a horrible example for young people who seem to be the ones who love such shows.

[iamthesun]

No it isn't and he was obsessed with her. But he felt something for her, otherwise he wouldn't have been so obsessed with her. He did try and change her, just like she tried to change him. They were the best before they found out about each other - so I guess that's what you wanted to get back to had Belthazar changed the past. Had the Seer and the Hollow not got in the way then things might have turned out differently.

[Esmeralda]

I very sincerely don't think so. No way Cole could've been happy as the useless non-magical that Phoebe turned him into. Season Five just would've happened sooner.

[forbuss]

Someone correct me if I am wrong - didn't Cole say something about demons not being able to love? I know that he was half demon, but still. One thing we can ALL agree on is that Phoebe and Cole were doomed from the start, no matter how bad we (and Cole/Phoebe) wanted it to work out. Phoebe and Cole were by far my favourite part of the show, but even I knew that it wasn't ever going to end happily ever after. This is why I HATED when Cole didn't stay dead after "Long Live The Queen" - I felt like that episode was what their entire relationship was building up to. When they brought him back through to season 5, I just thought it was a mistake because they could NEVER top that episode, and continuing on just felt silly after such an emotional vanquish.

I would have preferred if Cole had of been killed off in that episode, and instead of him coming back in season 5, he should have JUST came back for his appearance in season 7. I would have much rather them build upon the season 7 storyline that already exists. I thought that Drake and Phoebe were *true* soul mates, and I really think that he should have been in the show longer. He breathed life back into season 7, and I really wish that Phoebe either had of ended up single, or with Drake, or with a woman. Imagine if Drake was in Charmed for most of season 7/all of season 8, with all that Cole drama? Imagine what would have happened if Phoebe found out Cole was behind Drake, yet Phoebe/Drake still were together?! Amazing!!

Otherwise.. I really agree with some other fans (Esmerelda is the one that introduced me to this idea, THANKS!) that Phoebe was a lesbien. I think that she and Kira could have had a relationship that was similar to Phoebe/Cole, except it would NOT have been doomed from the start, because I don't feel that Kira was ever evil.. This is sparking a different discussion!!

[Esmeralda]

Had I been able to continue my re-watch, that's how it would've gone - from Season Four straight to Season Seven and skipping the bad ones. I still wish I could, but not with how badly Kern screwed up Season Three making me dislike all of the Halliwells, I just can't.

But I agree totally - Kyra and Phoebe should've been the ones who got the spin-off whose first season was actually the last season of Charmed, not Billie.

Although if Phoebe was going to end up with a male, would've much preferred Drake, the demon who *HADN'T* been raised to be a mercenary demon for over a 100 years like Cole, and the one who Cole sent for her, than Coop. Or if Coop was indeed who that "C" in "All Halliwell's Eve" meant, have it be Cole who sent him...not the Elders (them sorry for screwing up Phoebe's lovelife never made *ANY* sense to me!) .or better...actually *is* Cole, his reward for helping Phoebe open his heart...his demon-half is now a cupid-half, so he actually *could* truly love her. (Thanks to Fourever Charmed for that particular ending for Cole:)

Jul 4, 2006 13:39:28 GMT -5 Fourever Charmed said:

----

A red haze filled the air, outlining the shape of a woman. When the haze vanished, Phoebe Halliwell stood in its place. She wore a simple pair of white hip hugging bell bottoms, a peachy-pink satin camisole, gold stiletto sandals, and gold dangle earrings. Her hair was pulled into a bun, and a golden satin choker was wrapped around her neck. A small white leather purse hung on her shoulder. Cupid’s ring was on her finger.

The Charmed One gazed around for a moment, inspecting her surroundings. She was standing on a beautiful, white sand beach. The sky was a gorgeous robin’s egg blue, and silver-cerulean waves were lapping softly at the mouth of the beach. She could hear birds chirping peacefully, and smell the salty air.

Then she saw him. Phoebe swallowed hard. Never in her life had she imagined doing what she was about to do. Or wanting to, for that matter. She moved near quietly over the beach. She could barely hear the sand crunch under her shoes. Everything was overpowered by the sound of her heart slamming against her ribcage. She could hear it right between her ears.

“Phoebe.”

The witch froze. Her body was tingling, like a thousand pins and needles shooting through her.

“I know it’s you. I can always tell it’s you. There’s a certain way you shuffle your feet, and it used to drive me crazy.”

“I didn’t know I shuffled.”

“Now you do.” The man at the edge of the water turned around. He was dressed in a black suit with a satin red dress shirt underneath, and shiny black dress shoes. His face appeared cleanly shaven, and his blue eyes were still as piercing as ever. Cole Turner smiled. “It’s good to see you again.”

“It’s good to see you too,” Phoebe replied slowly.

“I never thought I’d see you again.”

“Likewise.”

“Why did you come?”

“I’m not in love with you anymore, Cole.”

“I know.” Cole moved near his ex. “So why did you come?”

“Because I heard you were here,” Phoebe whispered. She salty breeze flew across her face, fluttering the hairs around her. “I heard you were stuck in limbo.”

“And that’s a bad thing?” The ex-demon splayed his fingers outwards, pointing towards the water.

“It is when you’re watching me, but you can tell me yourself that you want me to find love. You have to go through my sister…and Drake.”

Cole cringed. “You found out about that?”

“Yes.”

“From who, if you don’t mind me asking.”

“Cupid.”

“Cupid?” Cole looked surprised. “How did you get to know Cupid?”

“He’s actually one of many Cupids,” Phoebe explained. “But The Elders sent him to me so that he could help me find love.” Her brow creased. “I thought, seeing as how you’ve obviously been watching me, that you would’ve known that.”

“I don’t watch everything, Phoebe. Only when I sense that you’re feeling at your worst about love.”

“Oh.” She looked down at the sand, digging the toe of her shoe into it. “I’ve found true love.”

“You have?” Cole smiled brightly, for the first time in years. “What’s his name?”

“Coop, the Cupid I told you about.”

“Coop,” Cole repeated. He laughed.

“What’s so funny?”

“His name,” the ex-demon chuckled.

“Why?”

“It begins with a ‘C,’ that why.”

“And?”

Cole crossed his eyes, surprised that she didn’t remember. “Do you remember the day you went back in time to save Charlotte Warren?”

Phoebe nodded.

“And do you remember when someone asked you if wanted to know what the first letter of your true love’s name would be?”

Phoebe’s eyes flickered in realization. “With the apple peel,” she gasped. “It was the letter ‘C.’”

Cole grinned. “I always thought I was that person. But I guess I was wrong. It was pointing you to ‘Cupid,’ to ‘Coop.’”

Phoebe narrowed her eyes. “How did you know about that?”

Cole waved his arm. “Long story. It doesn’t matter now anyway.” He shrugged, again moving towards Phoebe. “So, why did you come here?”

“I wanted to free you.”

“Free me?”

“Yes. I want you to be able to pass on to your afterlife. To be able to finally get over me.”

Cole frowned. “I can’t do that.”

“You can’t keep loving me Cole-”

“It’s not that!” He interjected. “It’s, well…I have something I need to show you, and then you’ll understand.”

Phoebe stood hesitantly.

“Oh come on, Phoebe. I won’t hurt you. I never could. Besides, I don’t have powers anymore anyway. And even when I did, you could still kick I disagree.”

Phoebe chuckled, startling herself.

“That’s more like it,” Cole smiled. He moved to Phoebe, taking her hand in his. “Come on.” Together they walked in silence, moving down the beach.

“Where are we going?”

“You’ll see.” Several minutes passed, and then Phoebe heard the giggling of what sounded to her like a child. “Cole,” she whispered alarmed, “is there a child here?”

“Shh.” Cole placed his fingers to her lips as they walked further down the beach. Then he stopped abruptly, pulling her with him. “That’s why.”

Several yards ahead of them, a beautiful brown haired boy about Wyatt’s age, possibly a little older by not much more than a year, played on the sand. He had on blue swim trunks with little sharks on them. And even from as far away as they were, his bright blue eyes were unmistakable.

In his hands he had a large, plastic yellow bucket in his hands. He kept running from the edge of the beach back to the middle with a bucket of wet down, and dumping it down to create sand cones. He was building a sand castle. The little boy was squealing with delight as he ran back to the water, with his yellow bucket swinging at his side.

“Who is that?” Phoebe gasped. “And why is that sweet little boy trapped in limbo?”

Cole didn’t get a chance to answer, because the little boy spotted both of them and squealed in delight. He dropped the yellow bucket and came barreling up the beach, running straight for Cole.

Cole bent down and caught the little boy as he ran into his arms. “Hey buddy,” he cooed enthusiastically. “How’s it going?”

“Great!” The little boy giggled, hugging Cole’s neck. He stopped, turning to face Phoebe with a twinkle in his bright blue eyes. “Who’s your friend, Daddy?”

Phoebe’s heart skipped a beat. “Daddy?” She repeated, looking curiously at her ex-husband.

Cole knelt down, placing the little boy back on the ground. He beckoned for Phoebe to kneel down with him. “Turner,” he announced, “this is a very dear friend of mine.”

“Turner,” Phoebe breathed. She held out her hand, to which the little boy immediately grabbed and shook. “It’s nice to meet you, Turner. My name’s Phoebe.”

“Phoebe?” Turner beamed. “My Mommy’s name is Phoebe too!”

Phoebe’s body stiffened. “O-oh r-really,” she stuttered. “Wow.”

“Turner,” Cole said slowly. “Why don’t you go back to building your sand castle? Phoebe and I some important things to discuss, okay?”

Turner nodded in understanding. “Okay, Daddy. I love you.”

“I love you too, son.”

As the little boy turned to run off, he peeked over his shoulder and waved to Phoebe. “It was nice to meet you, Phoebe!”

Phoebe choked as she waved. “It was nice meeting you too, Turner.” She watched as he ran back over to his sand castle, and then turned sharply to her ex. “What’s going on?”

Cole placed his hand to his head. “You were never supposed to find out,” Cole sighed.

“What do you mean? What are you talking about?”

“That little boy over there,” Cole said as he pointed to Turner. “He’s our son.”

“Our son? Cole, I don’t know if you recall or not, but we never had children.”

“Yes we did,” Cole countered. “You were pregnant, just before Piper was. Remember when The Source took me over?”

“Yes.” Phoebe wiped the corner of her eye. “I remember that very clearly.”

“Well, that’s the son that was vanquished with The Seer.”

“But he was The Source’s son.”

“No.” Cole’s voice was sharp. “He was our son, Phoebe. He may have had The Source’s powers, but he was still our flesh and blood.”

Phoebe looked back at the little boy. “How did you get him?”

“I asked The Elders to bring him here.”

“You talked to Them?”

“They were the ones who sent me to eternal limbo. I asked them about our son when I was banished. They didn’t budge.”

“So how did he come to be here?”

“After I sent Drake to you, and got you to believe in love again, They came to me and wanted to reward me for making you see that love was possible. They said I couldn’t leave limbo, but They wanted to know if there was anything I wanted. I told Them that I wanted our son.”

“And just like that, They sent him?”

“Yeah. He was a baby at first, but he grew up in literally a matter of days. Until he was about the age he would’ve been, you know?” Cole gazed back at their son, his eyes getting ever so slightly misty. “I named him Turner Warren Halliwell.”

Phoebe leaned into Cole’s side. She was no longer in love with Cole, she knew that. But as a friend, a companion, she still loved him and always would. He’d always be her first true love, and she knew that. Then she felt his hand on her cheek. “I’m sorry,” she whispered, wiping away her tears. “He’s just…so beautiful.”

“I know.” Cole smiled, beaming with pride for their son.

“You know, I also asked The Elders for a favor.”

“You did?” Cole looked surprised.

“I did.”

“And what was it?”

“I asked Them if they’d consider granting you a reprieve from limbo. I asked Them if They could allow you to help people, like you helped me.”

“What do you mean?”

“I asked them if They could make you a Cupid.”

Cole stepped back, shocked. “W-what did They say?”

Phoebe reached into her pocket, pulling out a small golden ring with a red ruby in the shape of a heart in the center. She held the ring out to Cole. “The inside is inscribed,” she added.

Cole held up the ring to the sunlight, examining the inner ring. “’To Coleridge Turner, I wish you the best. Love forever and always, Phoebe Halliwell.’” He curled his fist, cupping the ring within it. “Thank you, Phoebe. But you know I can’t accept this. I’ve got to stay with him.” He motioned toward their son, Turner.

“I guess that’s why They gave me this too,” Phoebe whispered. She slid her leather purse off her shoulder, reached into the bag, and pulled out a small golden bow, complete with a white arrow with a red, heart shaped point.” Phoebe handed the bow over to Cole, and then turned her head towards her son. “A little cliché, huh?”

Cole wrapped his arms around Phoebe, literally lifting her into the air. “I love you, Phoebe. Always have and always will. I know it can never work between us, but I still have the uttermost respect for you. And what you’ve done…” He put her down, and kissed her cheek. “Thank you. Thank you, so much.”

Phoebe blinked back the tears. “Go give him that for me, will you?” She placed her hand on his arm. “And tell him that his Mother loves him, okay?”

Cole slid the ring onto his finger. He glowed pink for a moment, and then walked over to his son. He knelt down, handing the little boy the Cupid’s bow and arrow.

From afar, she could see her ex-husband’s lips moving as he spoke something she couldn’t hear to her son. Then she saw Turner glanced around his Father, with tears glistening in her eyes. Phoebe’s heart was beginning to break.

She couldn’t hear him, but she could see his lips moving and she knew what he was saying. ‘I love you too.’ She wiped her eyes as Turner and Cole both waved to her, and then faded into a red puff of smoke that hung in the shape of a heart for a moment, and disappeared.

Phoebe closed her eyes, breathing in the salty see air. She wiped her cheek one last time, wiping away all her tears. The witch slid her purse back onto her shoulder, tucked her hand with Coop’s ring to her chest, and faded away in a red haze.

TO BE CONTINUED....

That will always be the ending I would've wanted for Cole and the Phoetus.

[forbuss]

That ending is lovely! I am going to see if I can ask for some of the comics for the holidays, I've been meaning to read them.

[iamthesun]

Very nice piece of writing. The moments after Cole's first vanquish were so well acted and written, then he was brought back and I can see why you both wished that never had happened. Cole's obsession and Phoebe's hatred of him..I wish it had ended differently. But I loved it when he came back in S7.. It made sense that he wanted to help Phoebe, after all that had happened. He was in a better place and wanted her to be too.

[ljones]

One, Cole was in love with Phoebe, not merely obsessed with her. Why do some of the fans insist upon labeling their relationship as something sinister, because of his past as an assassin?

No, I know that Cole's demonic side shouldn't have automatically meant failure for their relationship..it should have made them more determined to make it work. I'm not sure I would say her not accepting Cole for who he was made her immature. Her role as a witch made her protect the innocent, made her think of their safety and what was best for them. Accepting Cole and his darker side would have felt wrong for Phoebe.

You're going by the series' immature canon that demon=evil and human=good. For a show about 20-30 something women, this show can be incredibly narrow-minded and childish in its portrayal of morality.

Phoebe was being immature in her judgement of Cole's nature. Phoebe had to learn to accept Cole's darker side. She also had to learn that he had a lighter side. What the hell would she know of love, if she was incapable of accepting all of him - good and bad? He was willing to accept all of her - good and bad. After Leo had murdered Gideon, Piper was still willing to accept him as a part of her life and the lives of their sons. She continued to love Leo, despite the fact he had displayed his ability and willingness to give in to evil. She simply loved him.

Unfortunately, Phoebe proved she was incapable of such love in her relationship with Cole. She wanted guarantees, not real love. The problem with most of the Halliwells and people in general is that they tend to mix love with morality. One does not have anything to do with the other. Those who believe otherwise really have no business getting romantically involved with someone, for it shows a immature mentality to me.

And considering that the Halliwells have displayed their own capability to succumb to evil or do terrible things, who are they to judge Cole?

But I loved it when he came back in S7.. It made sense that he wanted to help Phoebe, after all that had happened. He was in a better place and wanted her to be too.

That Season Seven episode that featured Cole's return was a piece of crap. One, it was mainly about Leo. Two, it was badly written. Cole and Phoebe did not even share a scene together. And when Cole told Piper that he had conspired with the Seer to get Phoebe pregnant, I wanted to throw something the television screen in disgust, since it was the old Source - in possession of Cole's body - who had conspired with the Seer to knock up Phoebe. It was crap.

[iamthesun]

I completely agree that Cole was in love with Phoebe! I understand what your saying about Leo and Gideon, but it's slightly different.. Leo was protecting his family. He had a right to do that, had he not then Wyatt might have been kiled. I don't see anything wrong with Phoebe wanting guarantees from her relationship with Cole. She tried to accept him and he was willing to change for her - and he wanted to change. As to the Halliwell's succumbing to evil.. They have, but it's not something that happens without their control - it's not a quality that was in them from birth.. So slightly different to Cole's situation. And I thought the S7 episode was good! I think it was right that the show didn't focus too much on Phoebe and Cole as they needed to move on. The scene when Phoebe doubles back, unsure if she sensed someone was just right IMO. It still showed the connection they had. And yes as you said, it had some flaws, but I can see past that. I know it's irritating when things don't add up, but it's not the end of the world.

[ljones]

Leo was protecting his family. He had a right to do that, had he not then Wyatt might have been kiled.

Leo had the right to murder a defenseless Gideon in cold blood? If you honestly believe that, you might as well agree with Cole's decision to kill that Miller guy to protect Phoebe and her family. And you might as well agree with Phoebe and Paige's decision to murder Rick Whatshisname. I don't agree with Cole's act of murder, along with Phoebe and Paige's act of murder. And I certainly don't agree with Leo's act of murder. All three incidents were acts of evil, even if they were trying to protect the family.

As to the Halliwell's succumbing to evil.. They have, but it's not something that happens without their control - it's not a quality that was in them from birth.

Of course it was. Everyone has the potential for both good and evil. It's with us from birth to death. And this idea that the Halliwells succumb to evil without their control is something that has been contradicted on the show . . . namely Prue's fit of rage that nearly led her to beat one of the Seekers to death and Phoebe and Paige's deliberate murder of Rick Whatshisname are examples. And frankly, I find the sisters' "vanquish" of Cole in "Long Live the Queen" rather evil, especially since they set out to kill him without bothering what led him to become the Source. Instead, they allowed his past, their distrust and prejudice led them to kill an innocent victim of possession.

[iamthesun]

Yes I do believe that. I know Leo lost control and let his emotions get the better of him - (but quite frankly, I don't blame him) but it was his son.. An innocent little boy. Gideon was cold and calculating in what he did and he was an Elder..he took advantage of Leo, knowing he was trusted within the Halliwell family. Gideon even attempted to have Leo killed and he was behind that Game show that resulted in a dead innocent. Gideon deserved what he got and had no right to expect anything less. What Leo did was an act of evil, as was what Gideon did.
I can't remember Miller or Rick, which episodes were they from?
I agree with your thoughts about Cole's vanquish. But they couldn't dilly dally around wondering how things could have been different..the Source was unstoppable, and they needed to kill him. Had they not, things might have gotten 10 times worse.
And what you said about evil being in everyone is very true. Some people are just more likely to give in to it.

[Chrisaholic]

ljones meant Phoebe's school gang leader Rick Gittridge from "Hyde School Reunion" in S6 and I think the Miller guy could be S5, the episode with the Superheroes. Just guessing at the second.

[iamthesun]

oh I see, the guy that impersonated Chris. And Miller, was he to do with Richards family?

[ljones]

Yes I do believe that. I know Leo lost control and let his emotions get the better of him - (but quite frankly, I don't blame him) but it was his son.. An innocent little boy. Gideon was cold and calculating in what he did and he was an Elder..he took advantage of Leo, knowing he was trusted within the Halliwell family. Gideon even attempted to have Leo killed and he was behind that Game show that resulted in a dead innocent. Gideon deserved what he got and had no right to expect anything less. What Leo did was an act of evil, as was what Gideon did.


So . . . you're advocating murder, as long as the victim is eeevilll and the perputrator is one of the good guys? That makes it right? If that is the case, why did Cole stop Prue from beating that Seeker - one of the beings who earlier tried to kill him - in a fit of rage in "Death Takes a Halliwell"?



ljones meant Phoebe's school gang leader Rick Gittridge from "Hyde School Reunion" in S6 and I think the Miller guy could be S5, the episode with the Superheroes. Just guessing at the second.

You're correct.


I agree with your thoughts about Cole's vanquish. But they couldn't dilly dally around wondering how things could have been different..the Source was unstoppable, and they needed to kill him. Had they not, things might have gotten 10 times worse.

They had just lost their innocent and had all of the time in the world to figure out things. However, not bothering to wonder how Cole became the Source in the first place, the sisters allowed their so-called "righteous" anger to get the best of them and decided to kill him with extreme prejudice. They allowed their prejudice and anger to kill someone who was a victim of possession.

[iamthesun]

Haha of course I'm not advocating murder, but if the victim is evil then I think they deserve it..But that's just my opinion, I have strong views on that topic. I don't know why Cole stopped Prue doing what she was going to do - I'll have to rewatch that episode before I can comment..at a guess because he wanted to prove he was good? but I really don't know.
Yes they lost their innocent, but maybe that made them even more anxious to prevent that happening again. But I agree that the whole situation could have been handled differently.

[Chrisaholic]

Thanks. I have a good memory it seems. lol

[ljones]

Haha of course I'm not advocating murder, but if the victim is evil then I think they deserve it..But that's just my opinion, I have strong views on that topic. I don't know why Cole stopped Prue doing what she was going to do - I'll have to rewatch that episode before I can comment..at a guess because he wanted to prove he was good?

Cole knew that if Prue had killed that Seeker out of rage, instead of self-defense or in the defense of another, she would be making that first step into embracing evil. Which is what happened when Phoebe and Paige set up Rick Gittridge to be murdered by demons . . . and when Leo murdered Gideon.


It's not about whether the victim is good or evil. It's about why the other person killed the victim. And if it was necessary.

But humans like to think that it's okay to murder someone who is evil, regardless of intent. People who do that are not ridding the world of evil beings. They're simply becoming an evil being on their own.



Yes they lost their innocent, but maybe that made them even more anxious to prevent that happening again.

I don't mean to be curt, but I don't see how that's an excuse for the Halliwells' failure to find out what happened to Cole, when they had the chance to do so.

[iamthesun]

I see what you mean, though I wouldn't overgeneralise by saying that they were taking the first step into embracing evil..though their actions were evil, the sisters did what they had to do with Rick..same with Leo. Yes in Leo's case he did embrace evil, he got a little crazy but that was not his fault.
Yeah it isn't just about good vs evil, there's a lot more to it than that. But if someone was killed solely because they took another life, then there is intent..yes it's brutal but what they did would have been brutal. They have a reason why they are taking someone's life, and the criminal usually has no reason.
Maybe they lost patience with Cole..after everything they've been through with him and all the ups and downs he had with Phoebe, perhaps they just wanted an easy way out. And yes, I know that isn't an excuse.