Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920 
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 14, 2015 11:10:53 GMT -5
Well could he have? Remember he tried to tell her earlier but couldn't cause the source's essence or whatever that was taking control of him was preventing him from telling her. He tells old Phoebe he wants to tell Present Phoebe about it but the source won't let him,he says he's too strong. Hmm I don't really buy it though, she already suspected something was wrong, and it never made sense to me that he couldn't tell present Phoebe when future Phoebe already knew. Not to mention there were other times the true human Cole broke free of The Source's control like when he wanted to save Paige from the power brokers or celebrate Phoebe's pregnancy, if he had enough control/willpower to do that then I can't see him not having enough to say four little words, "I AM THE SOURCE". And had they done that, I wouldn't hate the Cole-the-Source/Phoebe-the-Queen-of-the-Underworld even half as much as I do, nor would I consider it my least-favorite storyline on Charmed, even over the Wyatt/Chris disaster or the Billie/Christy ultra-disaster. |
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Post by lilchi7212 on Aug 15, 2015 9:43:52 GMT -5
Well could he have? Remember he tried to tell her earlier but couldn't cause the source's essence or whatever that was taking control of him was preventing him from telling her. He tells old Phoebe he wants to tell Present Phoebe about it but the source won't let him,he says he's too strong. Hmm I don't really buy it though, she already suspected something was wrong, and it never made sense to me that he couldn't tell present Phoebe when future Phoebe already knew. Not to mention there were other times the true human Cole broke free of The Source's control like when he wanted to save Paige from the power brokers or celebrate Phoebe's pregnancy, if he had enough control/willpower to do that then I can't see him not having enough to say four little words, "I AM THE SOURCE". During the Three Faces of Phoebe episode we do the see the Source starting to grow strong in Cole on/off so how do we know it wasn't the Source at the end of the episode that was talking to Phoebe? We really don't know how the old Phoebe found out that Cole was the Source in her timeline before her and Cole's wedding. It was just stated that when they found out she and her sisters vanquished him. |
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Post by Darkhorse Christian on Aug 22, 2015 8:55:59 GMT -5
Apparently the Elders did it as an apology because Phoebe has a history of falling for guys both good and bad and simply not being cut out for whatever relationship she's in when it came down to it, so once everything wears on her to the point she just wants to write columns and find a baby daddy, she gets a mail-ordered man from the sky. Really she's got the most superficial happy ending of the sisters, if you think about it. And Piper? There's nothing the Elders could give her that Denise Dowse as the Angel of Destiny didn't conditionally curb-stomp when she agreed to freeze Leo instead of having him killed off. I remember writing those exact words back on TVTropes (and a longer variant of this in another discussion here about a year or so back). Hmm I don't really buy it though, she already suspected something was wrong, and it never made sense to me that he couldn't tell present Phoebe when future Phoebe already knew. Not to mention there were other times the true human Cole broke free of The Source's control like when he wanted to save Paige from the power brokers or celebrate Phoebe's pregnancy, if he had enough control/willpower to do that then I can't see him not having enough to say four little words, "I AM THE SOURCE". During the Three Faces of Phoebe episode we do the see the Source starting to grow strong in Cole on/off so how do we know it wasn't the Source at the end of the episode that was talking to Phoebe? We really don't know how the old Phoebe found out that Cole was the Source in her timeline before her and Cole's wedding. It was just stated that when they found out she and her sisters vanquished him. True, but at the same time, maybe that's why he didn't tell? Basic self-preservation and pride at work? Think about it, he was being overwhelmed by the Source inside him gradually controlling his actions, had no idea what to do about it and wasn't getting any closer to a clue either, next thing you know the bitter old future version of his lady is telling him that she found out what he became and she and her sisters killed him. If he was thinking logically he would've known telling her was his best shot, in fact I think part of him did know. But given how he was rejected in "Exit Strategy" out of spite after Raynor made him kill that witch with the amulet, even that wouldn't have guaranteed his successful release, and this was probably a thing in the back of his mind that the Source inside him exploited. Remember how she shunned you because of what Raynor made you do? How do you think she'll react to you becoming my new vessel? She'll kill you herself, along with her sisters too. She just told you this to your face. You can't trust her.
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Post by lilchi7212 on Aug 22, 2015 13:23:50 GMT -5
Apparently the Elders did it as an apology because Phoebe has a history of falling for guys both good and bad and simply not being cut out for whatever relationship she's in when it came down to it, so once everything wears on her to the point she just wants to write columns and find a baby daddy, she gets a mail-ordered man from the sky. Really she's got the most superficial happy ending of the sisters, if you think about it. And Piper? There's nothing the Elders could give her that Denise Dowse as the Angel of Destiny didn't conditionally curb-stomp when she agreed to freeze Leo instead of having him killed off. I remember writing those exact words back on TVTropes (and a longer variant of this in another discussion here about a year or so back). During the Three Faces of Phoebe episode we do the see the Source starting to grow strong in Cole on/off so how do we know it wasn't the Source at the end of the episode that was talking to Phoebe? We really don't know how the old Phoebe found out that Cole was the Source in her timeline before her and Cole's wedding. It was just stated that when they found out she and her sisters vanquished him. True, but at the same time, maybe that's why he didn't tell? Basic self-preservation and pride at work? Think about it, he was being overwhelmed by the Source inside him gradually controlling his actions, had no idea what to do about it and wasn't getting any closer to a clue either, next thing you know the bitter old future version of his lady is telling him that she found out what he became and she and her sisters killed him. If he was thinking logically he would've known telling her was his best shot, in fact I think part of him did know. But given how he was rejected in "Exit Strategy" out of spite after Raynor made him kill that witch with the amulet, even that wouldn't have guaranteed his successful release, and this was probably a thing in the back of his mind that the Source inside him exploited. Remember how she shunned you because of what Raynor made you do? How do you think she'll react to you becoming my new vessel? She'll kill you herself, along with her sisters too. She just told you this to your face. You can't trust her.
Yeah, I like this answer |
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Sept 2, 2015 23:36:16 GMT -5
Actually, Cole made an attempt to tell Phoebe and was prevented from doing so in "The Three Faces of Phoebe":
By the end of the episode, the Source had more or less taken control of Cole.
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Post by erikamarie on Sept 7, 2015 4:17:01 GMT -5
CHARMED AND DANGEROUS
Cole: He doesn't work for the Source, Phoebe, he is the Source. His face was disfigured in the battle that brought him to power.
................
Paige: I don't understand, if we got our powers back, where did the Source's go?
Seer: Into the void.
Piper is speaking of Source'powers not of the Source as entity
Cole got Source's powers, but he is still Cole, a man with a complex personality, a powerful demon, not a puppet
And I liked it, it'ld be disrespectful to a character full of lights and shadows as Cole be regarded as a poor and empty shell
Why did Cole blame Page for the failure of his marriage?
Because he is half human after all and often the humans prefer to blame others instead of thinking of the mistakes made
Cole had:
-knocked off the ceremony organized by Phobe risking to foil the marriage
-lied to Phoebe about his work
-impregnated Phoebe with a trick, without caring whether she wanted
-drove crazy Paige, risking to kill her
-tried to take Phoebe out from her sisters, risking to kill Piper
I think he worked hard to destroy his relationship with Phoebe!
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Post by lilchi7212 on Sept 7, 2015 9:03:54 GMT -5
CHARMED AND DANGEROUS Cole: He doesn't work for the Source, Phoebe, he is the Source. His face was disfigured in the battle that brought him to power. ................ Paige: I don't understand, if we got our powers back, where did the Source's go? Seer: Into the void. Piper is speaking of Source'powers not of the Source as entity Cole got Source's powers, but he is still Cole, a man with a complex personality, a powerful demon, not a puppet And I liked it, it'ld be disrespectful to a character full of lights and shadows as Cole be regarded as a poor and empty shell Why did Cole blame Page for the failure of his marriage? Because he is half human after all and often the humans prefer to blame others instead of thinking of the mistakes made Cole had: -knocked off the ceremony organized by Phobe risking to foil the marriage -lied to Phoebe about his work -impregnated Phoebe with a trick, without caring whether she wanted -drove crazy Paige, risking to kill her -tried to take Phoebe out from her sisters, risking to kill Piper I think he worked hard to destroy his relationship with Phoebe! I don't know about that it seemed like Cole was being taken over he wasn't Cole at all. In Three Faces of Phoebe the Seer said that he took in more than the Sources magic he took in the esscence. It was the Esscence that went into where Cole's demon half once inhabited. Cole tries to fight becoming the new Source; The Source first appears to Cole inside Cole's dreams, where he stabs the surprised human Cole's dream self with a sword. Cole battles the Source now living inside him, to no avail; within a few days of the Source's vanquish, the Source has almost completely taken over Cole. Eventually, there is little left of Cole's humanity except his love for Phoebe. Although demons normally can't handle human emotions, the Source maintained to the Seer that he needed Phoebe's love because without it, Cole's soul would die and he would cease to exist, but that was likely only a ploy because he did not want to admit that even the possessed Cole's love for Phoebe would survive decades and eternities no matter what happened. Believing his previous incarnation as the Source was too reckless, the Source opted not to renew his war against the Charmed Ones. Rather, he intended to use Phoebe's love for Cole to turn her evil and permanently destroy the Power of Three. |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Sept 16, 2015 21:00:05 GMT -5
It wasn't just Cole's "humanity" that loved Phoebe. He loved Phoebe . . . period. Regardless of his species. And the show has already proven that other evil beings were capable of falling in love or familial love. Someone's moral compass doesn't determine whether he/she is capable of love or not.
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Post by sol on Oct 16, 2015 9:14:05 GMT -5
Paige hated Cole, after she fully understood who he was
Piper immediately accepted Cole and almost as quickly she accepted Belthazor
The sympathy felt for Cole also shines through The Seven Year Witcht: they discuss and argue like old friends, or "good coach, an old friend"
Phoebe and Piper had accepted Cole for who he was, in Hell Hath No Fury they acted as a team
Piper: It tells us where the demons are and since we vanquished two already this week, I say it's working pretty well.
Phoebe: Yeah, thanks to Cole for saving our butts. Two witches and half a demon is not the Power of Three make.
Piper: So what are we supposed to do? Sit around and wait for them to pick us all off? If we weren't going after them, they'd be coming after us.
Cole: They're coming after you anyway, Piper. The Source is coming after you.
Phoebe: And we won't be ready for him because instead of teaching Paige how to be a witch, we're out hunting for every Tom, thingy and Beelzebub in San Francisco.
Cole: Speaking of, do we have any kind of plan here or…
Piper: The plan is to vanquish the demon.
Cole: Great. Any chance you've mastered your powers or are you still freezing and exploding at random?
(Phoebe hits him lightly on the shoulder.)
Piper: Random, but you know what they say, there's nothing like field practice. Turn here! (Cole screeches around another corner and drives down an alley.) Stop! (Cole slams on the breaks. A bald demon is in the middle of strangling a man. Piper, Phoebe and Cole get out of the car.) Hey! Big scary demon!
How I liked this way of doing"
Paige's rigidity was a great problem!
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Post by erikamarie on Oct 17, 2015 15:51:43 GMT -5
It wasn't just Cole's "humanity" that loved Phoebe. He loved Phoebe . . . period. Regardless of his species. And the show has already proven that other evil beings were capable of falling in love or familial love. Someone's moral compass doesn't determine whether he/she is capable of love or not. I agree, Cole loved Phoebe and Phoebe loved him, both Cole and Belthazor because they were the same person and Phoebe knew it, in fact, she never was been afraid to Belthazor Their relationship problems were normal relationship problems, with a break of trust absolutely insurmountable: this was the real problem, not Cole's evil side |
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Post by yinsoul on Oct 18, 2015 16:24:03 GMT -5
Its curious. Paige was definitely wary of him and even hated him a little, but she showed great sympathy as well when he was being driven nuts by Barbas. Even though Barbas was ultimately pulling the strings there, she wasn't near as willing to throw him under the bus as her sisters. Which I still don't understand- a crazed Cole was WAY more dangerous to everything around him than a simply lovesick Cole, but Phoebe and Piper didn't seem to care.
Not to mention the very real regret Paige seems to have at having Cole have to take back his powers in the end. 'Its a death sentence,' to paraphrase. She truly seemed to feel badly for him. I sort of wonder despite all their differences, if she was the one who had the most sympathy in the end for him after all.
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Post by sol on Oct 20, 2015 12:23:56 GMT -5
Paige didn't stand Belthazor, she'ld accept only Cole, devoid of his demoniac side
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Post by Sadrick on Oct 21, 2015 0:52:38 GMT -5
I don't think Paige completely trusted Cole even when he was fully human and with no powers inside of him. Cole's just a very dark, imposing, and rigid person to be around. He doesn't have the same warmth or compassion in his interactions that Leo does. In S7 you could say he was at a peak, so to speak, in terms of development because he became a lot more wise and patient with others. But even then, his actions weren't entirely altruistic since he was acting in Phoebe's benefit as well, not just Piper's. Plus, his methods could still be deemed aggressive and unorthodox.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Oct 27, 2015 21:33:35 GMT -5
Considering that the Halliwells and Leo managed to prove how negative they could be or how low they could really sink, I find these arguments regarding Paige's dislike of Cole rather hard to accept.
And Cole was not a rigid person. If he was really that rigid, he would have been a very unimaginative demon as far as magic went. And he could be very imaginative. More importantly, he was capable of being more open to love and marriage than Phoebe ever was. He never required guarantees.
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Post by Sadrick on Oct 28, 2015 5:36:35 GMT -5
Rigid in the sense that he's not easily dissuaded from a course of action. If another one of the sisters believes that what he's doing is unfavourable in some way, that won't necessarily stop him. He's not the sort of person to put his trust in others, nor is he really comfortable to be around. There always seemed to be a lot of tension in the air whenever he was in a scene like at the manor.
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Post by val1993 on Mar 16, 2016 8:06:35 GMT -5
Has anyone noticed that Paige was really objective when it came to Cole and his demonic powers in early season 5? She might have despised him and yet she let him know how Phoebe truly felt about Cole and in fact Paige was the ONLY ONE who was truly willing to help Cole get rid of his miscellaneous demonic powers in "Sympathy for the Demon"! Which makes me think that had she truly succeeded in stripping Cole of his powers she might have actually start liking Cole more since he would have been able to help sisters without being a demon since he knew so much about the Underworld (something that they are trying to do with Kyra in comics). Hence I see the potential in Paige/Cole storyline that Brad Kern was considering.
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Post by erikamarie on Mar 16, 2016 11:25:15 GMT -5
I read about The beauty and the Beast a Brad Kern's claim, he said that the past can be forgiven but not forgotten, I think this line'ld fit for a Paige and Cole storyline, Paige'ld be willing to help Cole, never to forget who he was
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Apr 3, 2016 11:41:59 GMT -5
"Never forget who he was". I find this rich, considering the actions of the Halliwells and Leo in later seasons. Come to think of it, I don't recall Paige being that forgiving toward Leo after he had killed Gideon.
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Post by imdb lives on on Feb 11, 2017 18:48:15 GMT -5
I feel like it was a story arch met for Prue. It seems that it would fit perfect since she was always cautious in how much he could be apart of their lives
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Post by charmedforlife28 on Apr 10, 2017 23:33:34 GMT -5
This says a lot about Phoebe, doesn't it? She wasn't capable of loving him period, if she was only willing to love the human side of him. Why would Phoebe have to compensate for Cole's demonic side? Why couldn't she be mature enough to accept him for what he was and for WHO he was? His demonic side should not have made their relationship "predestined" for failure. What really annoys me about the Halliwell sisters is that they had this immature ideal about love and romance. They want the ideal - the perfectly handsome man, with his ridiculously ideal personality with no flaws or darkness. What makes this desire of theirs so ridiculous is that they were far from perfect and they had darkness within themselves, like every being in existence. And somehow, they could never accept that . . . except for Prue. It's interesting that so many point out Cole's inability to let go of Phoebe, yet so few ever point out that Piper shared a similar trait. Wait can you explain the similar trait shared between Cole and Piper |
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