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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 0:28:32 GMT -5
The Charmed Ones had an enemy they couldn't defeat, fickle writers.
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Post by Astral Vision on Jul 25, 2015 4:50:52 GMT -5
Piper freezes Mr. Neck Cracky, as if to give us all the middle finger for the discussion we’ve just been having. Heh. Well, if she could remember her freezing power every episode, this wouldn't be something that has to be pointed out. xD
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Post by Chrisaholic on Jul 25, 2015 7:02:21 GMT -5
The whole "Blue Moon" and that it affects the sisters with their PMS screams Humbug!. Never heard of that phenomen either and it was badly executed as well. New whitelighters are getting eaten by the transformed Charmed Ones - what a picture! Again the mistake with Leo's follower as the sisters' whitelighter. What was Chris then? Apparently the storyline: whitelighter of the future becomes the new son and with that forgotten in the grand red line of the show. Really? BK, think over your stories for once!! Glad that is the final episode for Nick Lachey and with him, Leslie St.Claire. Never needed and not really wanted in my eyes! Phoebe has had enough guys for a whole lifetime in my eyes. Yay for the following episode: Drew's mini-appearance again!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 8:02:32 GMT -5
Another great review, P3Nathan! It still ASTOUNDS me that this horrible, blatantly sexist and offensive episode was ever written, let alone allowed to be filmed. Like many later season episodes, "Blue Moon" should've gone STRAIGHT to the shredder! It is if you believe that S6 Chris and Baby Chris are one and the same and that S6 Chris is truly this Leo’s son. Because I don’t (I want Baby Chris to have HALF a chance to grow up to NOT be S6 Chris…he may look like him, but hopefully not *be* a lying, whining, murdering brat (thank you, both Kalvana and Scifi, for using your fantastic fanfics “Future Consequences” and “A Normal Life” to show me and others why S6 Chris and Baby Chris are *not* one and the same, any more than Morality Bites' Melinda an Wyatt are, even if they have the same name.), I’m going to do myself a HUGE favor and sit this one out, just like I’ll sit “Imaginary Fiends” out - I don't want Goody Two-Shoes Wyatt to rot my teeth out with his sweetness. Since I think I remember that you do like Chris, enjoy! It was an episode specifically made for Drew-aholics and Chris-aholics, neither of which am I one. Only as a token gesture, mind you. What "Drew-aholics" and "Chris-aholics" would've ACTUALLY wanted was for the Chris storyline to continue into Season 7 and have a PROPER ending with CLOSURE, NOT for Chris to be killed off and completely dropped for Avatar nonsense, Nick Lachey, Lady Godiva, and bad CGI werewolves. And, while you weren't one of them, "Drew-aholics" and "Chris-aholics" WERE the majority of Charmed viewers at the time. Just take a gander at the ratings bump early Season 6 saw and how the ratings completely dropped into the gutter in Season 7 after Chris was killed.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jul 25, 2015 8:20:18 GMT -5
It is if you believe that S6 Chris and Baby Chris are one and the same and that S6 Chris is truly this Leo’s son. Because I don’t (I want Baby Chris to have HALF a chance to grow up to NOT be S6 Chris…he may look like him, but hopefully not *be* a lying, whining, murdering brat (thank you, both Kalvana and Scifi, for using your fantastic fanfics “Future Consequences” and “A Normal Life” to show me and others why S6 Chris and Baby Chris are *not* one and the same, any more than Morality Bites' Melinda an Wyatt are, even if they have the same name.), I’m going to do myself a HUGE favor and sit this one out, just like I’ll sit “Imaginary Fiends” out - I don't want Goody Two-Shoes Wyatt to rot my teeth out with his sweetness. Since I think I remember that you do like Chris, enjoy! It was an episode specifically made for Drew-aholics and Chris-aholics, neither of which am I one. Only as a token gesture, mind you. What "Drew-aholics" and "Chris-aholics" would've ACTUALLY wanted was for the Chris storyline to continue into Season 7 and have a PROPER ending with CLOSURE, NOT for Chris to be killed off and completely dropped for Avatar nonsense, Nick Lachey, Lady Godiva, and bad CGI werewolves. And, while you weren't one of them, "Drew-aholics" and "Chris-aholics" WERE the majority of Charmed viewers at the time. Just take a gander at the ratings bump early Season 6 saw and how the ratings completely dropped into the gutter in Season 7 after Chris was killed. And note the ratings for "Someone to Witch Over Me"... Oh, believe me, I know that the Chris-aholics were the majority of Charmed viewers at the time. BUT NOT OF KERN'S CHRIS AND NOT DREW FULLER'S VERSION OF HIM!!! Instead it was as Chris *should've* been, a Chris I would've liked too, especially if he was played by someone who could *play* a Halliwell as well as he *looked* like one instead of just always rolling his eyes and sighing impatiently and not much else - never doing anything that made us think that he actually cared for his mother or his aunts. That was Fuller's lack of talent as much as it was bad writing. None of the fanfics reflected his Chris at all. If Chris-fans were honest with themselves, no way they'd want S6 Chris to continue into Season 7 and let Kern and Fuller continue to make him go farther and farther away from most fanfic versions of the character, a character I love as much as the fans do unless he's too much St. Christopher, the author's Gary Stu.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 8:26:05 GMT -5
I’ll prove how long it’s been since I watched this – who are those floating heads? The three main Avatars: I know the one from season 5 was called Alpha... I'll probably just call them The Greek Alphabetti Spaghetti Gang (or the GAS Gang for short... works well with all the hot air they give off). Hey,good analysis there, never thought of it that way. Oh yeah, I'd actually forgotten that was the same episode. Meh, I don't hate Chris... well, I kinda hate everyone at this point... but I don't hate Chris more than anyone else. I've always been kind of apathetic about him really, he was never a big draw or repellent for me in season 6. I might be remembering wrong, but wasn't Chris in this episode just a figment of Leo's vision quest? I didn't think it was actually him at all, just Leo's mind. I'll have to rewatch and see. Piper: That wasn't Leo. He was possessed or something. Paige: Again? Well, it seems to happen a whole lot.
Erm, no it doesn’t. Leo hasn’t been possessed once. Also, you know what? Leo has done terrible things, I don't deny that for a second... but the amount of times you guys turn evil and/or generally just do evil things even when you’re supposedly good, I think making out like possession is hard to believe wouldn’t be in your best interests in the long run guys. Actually, Leo was possessed once all the way back in S3. Remember Terra from "Coyote Piper"? It was brief, but he was technically being inhabited and controlled by an essence. That still doesn't make Leo equatable to the sisters who have been possessed in almost every season. Oh yes, quite right. I had forgotten that one.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jul 25, 2015 8:37:54 GMT -5
Hehehehe! That’s the perfect nickname for them. I think in the charmedscripts.tv version, they call them Alpha, Beta and Gamma, so you’re right on. Not that those names are canon unless they’re mentioned onscreen, but if I know Shay’s transcribing, if they didn’t call them that, she wouldn’t either.
I wouldn’t either if you hadn’t mentioned how often Leo bails.
Gotcha. Then you'll probably feel the same way towards the next one as you have to previous ones.
Honestly, I don’t remember. I’ll have to read the end of your review to find out. I hope it is - I prefer thinking of him as either dead or gone back to his own timeline with Evil Wyatt since he never did anything to save him, since Wyatt still turns evil in "Imaginary Fiends". It would be S7's Leo's son who would find a different future if he went into the future, not S6 Chris. With S6 Chris screwing up the timeline of every person he met for over a year, he deserves to go back to the future where Evil Wyatt still rules.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 9:54:57 GMT -5
Just to let you guys know, I'll be away for a couple of days. Doubt I'll have time to watch another episode before, so will have the next post up early next week.
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Post by Esmeralda on Jul 25, 2015 9:57:34 GMT -5
Just to let you guys know, I'll be away for a couple of days. Doubt I'll have time to watch another episode before, so will have the next post up early next week. Understood. Have a great weekend!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 10:28:01 GMT -5
Oh, believe me, I know that the Chris-aholics were the majority of Charmed viewers at the time. BUT NOT OF KERN'S CHRIS AND NOT DREW FULLER'S VERSION OF HIM!!! Instead it was as Chris *should've* been, a Chris I would've liked too, especially if he was played by someone who could *play* a Halliwell as well as he *looked* like one instead of just always rolling his eyes and sighing impatiently and not much else - never doing anything that made us think that he actually cared for his mother or his aunts. That was Fuller's lack of talent as much as it was bad writing. None of the fanfics reflected his Chris at all. If Chris-fans were honest with themselves, no way they'd want S6 Chris to continue into Season 7 and let Kern and Fuller continue to make him go farther and farther away from most fanfic versions of the character, a character I love as much as the fans do unless he's too much St. Christopher, the author's Gary Stu. The core problem you are describing is the lack of planning Chris' story suffered from the start. It's obvious that Kern never had a long-term plan for Chris and his character. They only brought Chris in to begin with to fill the void left by Cole (and potentially, Leo), after all. And, Drew was only cast to play the character because he was available; Black Sash flopped and the WB loved to reuse its actors on other shows. NOBODY could've predicted just how popular Chris would end up being, especially not enough to cause the ratings to shoot back up to Season 3 era levels in early Season 6. With the way it all went down, I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that Chris' story ended as badly as it did and that a spinoff never happened, not even in novel or comic form.
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Post by Esmeralda on Jul 25, 2015 11:39:32 GMT -5
Oh, believe me, I know that the Chris-aholics were the majority of Charmed viewers at the time. BUT NOT OF KERN'S CHRIS AND NOT DREW FULLER'S VERSION OF HIM!!! Instead it was as Chris *should've* been, a Chris I would've liked too, especially if he was played by someone who could *play* a Halliwell as well as he *looked* like one instead of just always rolling his eyes and sighing impatiently and not much else - never doing anything that made us think that he actually cared for his mother or his aunts. That was Fuller's lack of talent as much as it was bad writing. None of the fanfics reflected his Chris at all. If Chris-fans were honest with themselves, no way they'd want S6 Chris to continue into Season 7 and let Kern and Fuller continue to make him go farther and farther away from most fanfic versions of the character, a character I love as much as the fans do unless he's too much St. Christopher, the author's Gary Stu. The core problem you are describing is the lack of planning Chris' story suffered from the start. It's obvious that Kern never had a long-term plan for Chris and his character. They only brought Chris in to begin with to fill the void left by Cole (and potentially, Leo), after all. And, Drew was only cast to play the character because he was available; Black Sash flopped and the WB loved to reuse its actors on other shows. NOBODY could've predicted just how popular Chris would end up being, especially not enough to cause the ratings to shoot back up to Season 3 era levels in early Season 6. With the way it all went down, I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that Chris' story ended as badly as it did and that a spinoff never happened, not even in novel or comic form.
Exactly so. They so should've used most of S6 to show what happened in Chris' past - "ChrisCrossed" was just a glimpse and showed that the only one Chris cared about outside of himself was Bianca.
But that's also why I'm glad they didn't continue his story in S7 - I'm sure they would've made me hate him more, the way that episode did.
Which is why I prefer thinking of him the way he's portrayed in fanfics like Scifi's and Kalvana's, especially because they also write the sisters the way I wish they were written. Theirs are CHARMED stories, not Charmed Sons ones, which I find boring except for Twin_Swords' "Destined" and the San Francisco part of LexiCharmed's "Progeny: Angel & Demons".
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 12:02:35 GMT -5
That's a good one!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 12:59:17 GMT -5
Exactly so. They so should've used most of S6 to show what happened in Chris' past - "ChrisCrossed" was just a glimpse and showed that the only one Chris cared about outside of himself was Bianca. But, if they had done that, then they wouldn't have had time for Freebie, Stoopid Majickal Kreatures, and Pop Culture Ripoffs. Which is why I prefer thinking of him the way he's portrayed in fanfics like Scifi's and Kalvana's, especially because they also write the sisters the way I wish they were written. Theirs are CHARMED stories, not Charmed Sons ones, which I find boring except for Twin_Swords' "Destined" and the San Francisco part of LexiCharmed's "Progeny: Angel & Demons". So, basically, you're a fan of fanon Chris rather than canon Chris? Of course, at this point, fanfics are probably the only Wyatt and Chris we'll see. If a spinoff couldn't happen in 2006, it sure as hell won't happen today. It's telling that even the comic series we got ended up being a continuation of the sisters' story rather than a Charmed Sons spinoff. Nobody but the fandom sees any potential in the idea.
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Post by Chrisaholic on Jul 25, 2015 13:42:54 GMT -5
Exactly so. They so should've used most of S6 to show what happened in Chris' past - "ChrisCrossed" was just a glimpse and showed that the only one Chris cared about outside of himself was Bianca. But, if they had done that, then they wouldn't have had time for Freebie, Stoopid Majickal Kreatures, and Pop Culture Ripoffs. We can't say who else Chris cared about, because this part out of his past WAS not SEEN on TV!!! BK must have forgotten that this might be important for the fans and all that other stuff. Once it was revealed that the big Bad of the future is Wyatt, the authors surely could have gone in another direction and shown more. Time travel seems to be no problem in the show, hence Chris's travel to the past is proof of that fact. We can't assume anything that was never seen. That's up to our own imagination. Which is why I prefer thinking of him the way he's portrayed in fanfics like Scifi's and Kalvana's, especially because they also write the sisters the way I wish they were written. Theirs are CHARMED stories, not Charmed Sons ones, which I find boring except for Twin_Swords' "Destined" and the San Francisco part of LexiCharmed's "Progeny: Angel & Demons". So, basically, you're a fan of fanon Chris rather than canon Chris? Of course, at this point, fanfics are probably the only Wyatt and Chris we'll see. If a spinoff couldn't happen in 2006, it sure as hell won't happen today. It's telling that even the comic series we got ended up being a continuation of the sisters' story rather than a Charmed Sons spinoff. Nobody but the fandom sees any potential in the idea. Yeah, what else is there to enjoy The Charmed Sons. As said above, the canon could have done but it didn't. End of story!
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jul 25, 2015 14:27:13 GMT -5
Exactly so. They so should've used most of S6 to show what happened in Chris' past - "ChrisCrossed" was just a glimpse and showed that the only one Chris cared about outside of himself was Bianca. But, if they had done that, then they wouldn't have had time for Freebie, Stoopid Majickal Kreatures, and Pop Culture Ripoffs. *sigh* Unfortunately that's very true. How sad is that? But since I don't like canon Chris at all, I'm glad. That depends upon which fanon... I don't like him when he's St. Christopher and he's that much too often. And personal reaction is THANK GOD!!! I don't think I would bought a Charmed Sons comic at all. Yes, I know the fans that are left would've, but with how much I enjoyed S9 of the comics, I'm very glad they didn't go straight into the Charmed Sons. Unfortunately I don't think the comics are being very successful (and, no, I don't think a Charmed Sons one would've been any more successful for the same reason - people just don't like comic books - and with the various artists, I can see why. I'd prefer them either always looking like the canon character or always being a comic-strip version like we had originally. As soon as you get one panel that looks a lot like the canon, you want more. I've been doing script versions of the comics for various friends and I think they enjoy reading them that way more than I did actually read the comics. I much would've preferred a whole series of books as either Season 9 or as The Charmed Sons (even if I never bought or read any) especially if Paul Ruditis had written them. It's the shortness of the comics that I personally hate most of all.
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Post by Darkhorse Christian on Jul 25, 2015 14:39:30 GMT -5
Es, I honestly don't even think Fuller was half the problem with Chris, but rather that it falls at least 80% on Kern, WB, and creative. What convinces me of that is Drew's lack of interest regarding the Charmed Sons deal, specially the stated reason for his lack of desire to continue playing Chris on any sort of a long term basis. His thing, after all, was that he wanted to play characters that he felt were more like men and Chris did not fill that criteria. I think Drew saw many of the same things we see about the way Chris turned out, to the point that it influenced his criteria in accepting future roles. That lets me think he does take his acting seriously enough that he would've made a well-written Chris work.
It's kinda the same thing with why my issue with Billie is neither Kaley Cuoco nor Billie's existence on principle, why I think Billie could've worked, Kaley and all, if it wasn't for how badly she and the season around her were handled. The actors in general aren't my complaints with Charmed so much as what they were given to work with. That's what I look at first before I imagine what superstar actor or actress would've fit the role better, because let's face it. You could put Jensen Ackles or the late Paul Walker (RIP) in Fuller's position with Kern's Chris, or Blake Lively or Anna Paquin in Kaley's position with Kern's Billie, but if the head honcho and his head honchos still pulled the exact same continuity issues, the same midway plot/story switches with Chris, the same gratuitious drama and overblown attempts at cool with Billie, and had the same horrible character-butchered Charmed Ones as the leads they had to do work with, they're not turning trash sandwiches to gold as easily as we'd want to think.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 17:43:57 GMT -5
Yeah, no matter how good the actors are. If you're at the whim of a fickle producer and writers, you're screwed.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 18:55:10 GMT -5
We can't say who else Chris cared about, because this part out of his past WAS not SEEN on TV!!! BK must have forgotten that this might be important for the fans and all that other stuff. Once it was revealed that the big Bad of the future is Wyatt, the authors surely could have gone in another direction and shown more. Time travel seems to be no problem in the show, hence Chris's travel to the past is proof of that fact. We can't assume anything that was never seen. That's up to our own imagination. Exactly. Chris' story was hardly told to begin with, constantly getting sidelined for Freebie, fairytale crap, and worthless filler like "Witchstock." The premiere was not about Chris but the sisters in skimpy costumes, for crying out loud! And personal reaction is THANK GOD!!! I don't think I would bought a Charmed Sons comic at all. Yes, I know the fans that are left would've, but with how much I enjoyed S9 of the comics, I'm very glad they didn't go straight into the Charmed Sons. I think the bolded part is a pretty big hint. It seems like Chris/Charmed Sons fans vacated Charmed fandom at a faster rate than other fans did, and there aren't many new ones coming in to replace them. Even 5 years ago, there probably wasn't a big enough audience left for a Charmed Sons comic. Unfortunately I don't think the comics are being very successful (and, no, I don't think a Charmed Sons one would've been any more successful for the same reason - people just don't like comic books Yeah, comic books are kind of a dying art form. Even the likes of Marvel and DC have to rely on movies to stay afloat nowadays. with the various artists, I can see why. I'd prefer them either always looking like the canon character or always being a comic-strip version like we had originally. As soon as you get one panel that looks a lot like the canon, you want more. Yeah, the comics' artwork is pretty terrible. The inconsistency with Paige's appearance is especially annoying. One minute, she has the longer light brown hair she ended the series with, and the next minute, she's back to the shorter orange/yellow hair from Seasons 5-6. And, then, there's Piper looking thinner and bigger-breasted than she ever looked on the show, although that's probably to be expected in comics. I much would've preferred a whole series of books as either Season 9 or as The Charmed Sons (even if I never bought or read any) especially if Paul Ruditis had written them. It's the shortness of the comics that I personally hate most of all. The last two Charmed novels, "Leo Rising" and "Trickery Treat," suggest that the novel series may have eventually gone in either direction. Unfortunately, the novels were cancelled before either could happen. Es, I honestly don't even think Fuller was half the problem with Chris, but rather that it falls at least 80% on Kern, WB, and creative. What convinces me of that is Drew's lack of interest regarding the Charmed Sons deal, specially the stated reason for his lack of desire to continue playing Chris on any sort of a long term basis. His thing, after all, was that he wanted to play characters that he felt were more like men and Chris did not fill that criteria. I think Drew saw many of the same things we see about the way Chris turned out, to the point that it influenced his criteria in accepting future roles. That lets me think he does take his acting seriously enough that he would've made a well-written Chris work. It's kinda the same thing with why my issue with Billie is neither Kaley Cuoco nor Billie's existence on principle, why I think Billie could've worked, Kaley and all, if it wasn't for how badly she and the season around her were handled. The actors in general aren't my complaints with Charmed so much as what they were given to work with. That's what I look at first before I imagine what superstar actor or actress would've fit the role better, because let's face it. You could put Jensen Ackles or the late Paul Walker (RIP) in Fuller's position with Kern's Chris, or Blake Lively or Anna Paquin in Kaley's position with Kern's Billie, but if the head honcho and his head honchos still pulled the exact same continuity issues, the same midway plot/story switches with Chris, the same gratuitious drama and overblown attempts at cool with Billie, and had the same horrible character-butchered Charmed Ones as the leads they had to do work with, they're not turning trash sandwiches to gold as easily as we'd want to think. This is VERY true. Most of it all comes back to poor writing and direction on the part of Kern and the Frog Network, who both clearly cared more about making money than creating quality TV.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Jul 25, 2015 19:38:14 GMT -5
Es, I honestly don't even think Fuller was half the problem with Chris, but rather that it falls at least 80% on Kern, WB, and creative. What convinces me of that is Drew's lack of interest regarding the Charmed Sons deal, specially the stated reason for his lack of desire to continue playing Chris on any sort of a long term basis. His thing, after all, was that he wanted to play characters that he felt were more like men and Chris did not fill that criteria. I think Drew saw many of the same things we see about the way Chris turned out, to the point that it influenced his criteria in accepting future roles. That lets me think he does take his acting seriously enough that he would've made a well-written Chris work. It's kinda the same thing with why my issue with Billie is neither Kaley Cuoco nor Billie's existence on principle, why I think Billie could've worked, Kaley and all, if it wasn't for how badly she and the season around her were handled. The actors in general aren't my complaints with Charmed so much as what they were given to work with. That's what I look at first before I imagine what superstar actor or actress would've fit the role better, because let's face it. You could put Jensen Ackles or the late Paul Walker (RIP) in Fuller's position with Kern's Chris, or Blake Lively or Anna Paquin in Kaley's position with Kern's Billie, but if the head honcho and his head honchos still pulled the exact same continuity issues, the same midway plot/story switches with Chris, the same gratuitious drama and overblown attempts at cool with Billie, and had the same horrible character-butchered Charmed Ones as the leads they had to do work with, they're not turning trash sandwiches to gold as easily as we'd want to think. I would agree with you guys if he used any sort of little business to show how Chris felt about his mother/his aunts. Had he, I wouldn't have been screaming at Leo not to leave Wyatt with Chris, certain that this was when Chris would murder him. I found what happened completely totally out of character. The same way we blame McGowan for mailing it in, I have to blame Fuller for mailing it in. He might not have liked the way his character was going, but he was making a lot of money to play the character and could've/should've done his best. Just like McGowan, I don't think he did. As is, I think Kaley did a much better job playing her horribly-written character than either McGowan or Fuller did. It's why I have to give credit to both Holly and Alyssa - and Brian. Despite how horribly their characters were written, none of them ever gave less than their best. Ditto for Shannen and Julian, the reason why I'll always prefer the first set of Charmed Ones. But, of course, that's just my own opinion. I respect the fact that others see it differently.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 22:54:56 GMT -5
It's why I have to give credit to both Holly and Alyssa - and Brian. Despite how horribly their characters were written, none of them ever gave less than their best. Ditto for Shannen and Julian, the reason why I'll always prefer the first set of Charmed Ones. I highly disagree with Alyssa and Brian. Alyssa clearly started phoning it in later on, and she was never a strong dramatic actor to begin with. And, Brian was never a strong actor, period. The limitations of his abilities painfully showed in Seasons 6 and 7 when he started getting more dramatic material (however horribly written it was).
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