ljones
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Post by ljones on Aug 1, 2006 11:33:30 GMT -5
I loved Cole he was so sexy and him and Phoebe were perfect together, i heard that his contract only went to season 5 and thats why they wrote him off Actually, his original contract had ended after Season 4. He had decided to stick around for Season 5. But I heard rumors that he was growing disatisfied with the show's writing and his characterization during Season 5 and probably shopped around for another job. |
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charmedgoddess
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Post by charmedgoddess on Aug 1, 2006 13:03:55 GMT -5
Sorry to all who like Cole/Phoebe But I don't like this coupling one bit. Cole was part demon and as long as he was part demon he was evil and when he was finally human, he desired to be powerful again . The evil tendencies never left. Unlike Leo who was perfectly happy being mortal and with Piper, though it did irritate him at times but he was never sorry it happened
Plus I just think Cole was too uptight and demanding for phoebe. Phoebe was a sweet free spirit until he came along and crushed her spirit in the end. Plus he chose freely to work with the seer when he accepted the hollow. Good can't work with evil it always backfires and it cost him everything.
Though I do admit, I did like seven year witch. Probably because it had cole repenting for his past and he wasn't trying to get Phoebe back, just help her.
(Note:The word demon come from judeo-christian beliefs. Demons are fallen angels who choose to follow Satan after being banished for be to prideful and wanting to be God, the Creator. They are evil, plain and simple.)
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Post by Xenith on Aug 1, 2006 13:47:29 GMT -5
Desire to be powerful again? Where do you get that from exactly? Him buying a gun? So what he wasn't used to being defenseless, owning a gun makes him evil? When did he actually state he wanted to become a demon again?
When did he actively seek out new power? Did he not fight with the Source inside of him? Did he not at one point overcome the Source enough to try and have the wizard strip him of his powers?
Except how good and evil successfully worked together to protect the hollow for thousands of years. And good and evil work together on the Tribunal.
Not to mention the various times that the Charmed Ones and Leo worked with Cole/Balthazar, that all turned out fine...
And don't forget about how the Charmed Ones AND Leo worked with Zankou to stop the avatars...
So then Drake is also then evil, plain and simple? Also if you are saying that all demons are Evil then by contrast wouldn't all Angels be good? Then how do you explain Gideon?
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charmedgoddess
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Post by charmedgoddess on Aug 2, 2006 11:35:55 GMT -5
He stated to Darryl in the captains office "I Need to get back in the good vs evil game. It's the only thing I know"
and yes he fought the source but lost and when he finally was freed of the source instead of passing on, he purposely chose to gain demonic powers in the wasteland!! Those powers eventually corrupted him driving him into obsession over phoebe and eventually insanity just like she said they would.
Needless to say that didn't work out well in the end...twice!! and the tribunal was a crock too because thanks to Barbus Phoebe got her powers stripped.
and it didn't turn out fine, look at what happened to him!!
and yeah but then Zankou went after the Charmed ones, nearly killing them.
Drake, was not evil once he was turned mortal! and I was just stating fact. Charmed is a tv show, not based on real life or truth of the occult or witchcraft at all
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Aug 2, 2006 12:12:52 GMT -5
Didn't good and evil agree to that ludicrous "48 Hour Window of Opportunity Rule"? And didn't they agree about setting back time in "All Hell Breaks Loose"? And didn't they also agree that idiotic tribunal that ordered Phoebe's powers to be stripped?
As for Cole having evil within him . . . the Charmed Ones and Leo proved that they had evil within themselves as well. The only problem is that the show's writers never really focused upon some of their most evil deeds. Instead, they were swept aside.
I find that excuse ludicrous. It was Cole's inability to deal with his breakup with Phoebe, her harassment of him and finally, his emotional breakdown that caused him to embrace evil before his final "death", not the stupid powers.
Phoebe was her own worst enemy, not Cole. And as I recall, she was the one who rather stupidly tried to turn Cole into her immature idea of what an ideal man should be. Cole was simply stupid enough to try to follow her wishes . . . and ended up screwing himself.
So, according to Judeo-Christian beliefs, demons chose the path of evil, they weren't inherently created as evil. As I recall, Satan was the same way. And just because this is Judeo-Christian belief, doesn't mean that it is right. Everyone have their own ideas of what demons are. Wiccans . . . which the sisters ARE SUPPOSED TO BE, don't even believe in them.
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charmedgoddess
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Post by charmedgoddess on Aug 2, 2006 12:30:14 GMT -5
yeah they did, and the 48 hour window was about free not good working with evil.
Yeah and setting back time cost Prue her life because of course evil didn't stick to the bargain.
and yes but we already agree it was ludricous to have it in the first place. So that was another screw up too.
Her harrasment of him!!! How in the world to she harass him, he was completely harrasing her and her family!! He nearly killed her a dozen times in season 5. She was just trying to live her life and he wanted her back but she didn't want him because he was EVIL and had enough of trying to work it out when it obviously wasn't meant to be!!!
How in the world did she try and carve Cole into the perfect man, she just wanted him to be good and not evil because even as Cole said "Evil cannot love, only lust. The only way for it to work out is if he was good; which he wasn't. He tried, and I admire him for that but it failed miserably and he couldn't deal with it.
Point blank he was semi-ok until he chose to work with the seer from there on, it all fell apart. He should have found a way to save them without cooperating with her. He did it to himself, and he took Phoebe with him, nearly destroying her too.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Aug 2, 2006 14:23:07 GMT -5
We were obviously watching two different shows here. You saw Cole harassing Phoebe - which he was between "Yo Tu Tambien Whatever" and "The Importance of Phoebe". I saw Phoebe being unable to decide between staying away from Cole, harassing him whenever she thought he was being evil, or when she needed him for something. Whatever. This is a topic we will not agree upon. I suggest that you go back to the Leo or Coop threads and moon over them.
That's because Cole didn't know what the hell he was talking about. Apparently, neither did the writers, considering that they have shown evil characters in love. And apparently you have forgotten that people have committed evil deeds in the name of love. After all, Phoebe and Paige were willing to rip out Darryl's soul so that they could rescue Leo from Vahalla and he could get rid of the spell he had cast on Piper. Now there's a good example of evil being committed in the name of love.
Also, I suggest that you check out late Season 3 again, when Phoebe rather stupidly insisted that Cole refrain from using his powers, because she RATHER STUPIDLY thought he would be tempted to turn evil again. And Cole - rather stupidly - agreed to her wishes.
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Post by Xenith on Aug 2, 2006 14:39:57 GMT -5
Your quote was really taken out of context. Here's the scene:
I can't see anything in that conversation that implies that Cole wants to be a demon again, or that he wants powers again.
He didn't want to move one because
A) He was afraid of going to hell if he moved on. (which is totally understandable to me)
B) He still thought he and Phoebe could get back together.
And the first time he starts absorbing powers in the wasteland, he is likely doing it for Phoebe.
Phoebe during her first visit to the Wasteland made it seem like the door to their relationship wasn't completely closed. When he tells her that "You can help save me, save us". She does not immediately shut him down, or tell him that its over. She asks "How?" She sounds interested up until he tells her to use the Grimoire.
Then the Sandworm grabs her and she calls out for his help, for him to use his powers to save her. Cole is upset that he can't because he has no powers to help her with. When she demeterializes Cole likely believes that she will be back. If she does return he wants to make sure that the Sandworm doesn't try to have a Phoebe dinner again, he wants to have powers in case she needs help again.
If he just gained powers because he wanted powers, then don't you think he would have started absorbing powers long before Phoebe visits him in the Wasteland this first time?
The Hollow being taken by the Source had nothing to do with a problem of good and evil working together. The Evil demon did not attack the angel nor did we see him make any attempt to steal the hollow for himself. The Evil guardian tried to stop the Source before he was infected by the Hollow himself.
Likewise Zankou was after the Charmed Ones prior to the Avatar situation occuring. Both sides stuck with their agreement, and they were successful in their attempt to stop the avatars. Working together with Zankou was in no way detrimental to the Charmed Ones. Zankou attacking them at a later date had nothing to do with the avatars.
While Barbus brought it up to the Tribunal, He did not actually cause Phoebe to abuse her powers. The blame for that falls squarely on Phoebe herself. And whether you agree with their decision or not, both the Elders and Demons arrived at the same decision, they are successfully working together fine.
And if you are willing to say that Cole was good when he was a human, then I fail to see what was bad about his collaborations with the Charmed Ones as Belthazar (Proving Prue was innocent of murder with Leo, saving Phoebe from her psychic link with Prue, saving Paige from Shax with Phoebe, saving fury Piper with Phoebe & Paige, ect.) as the results of working together then had little to do directly with him later being possessed by the Source or becoming Uber cole.
And what of Brendan Rowe, born a Warlock yet he refused to ever kill. Was he evil just because of what he was born?
If you are going to say something whether fact or opinion, and use it as evidence to prove something in relationship to the TV show (Which you were, otherwise you wouldn't have brought it up in the first place) then you better be ready for someone to make a counterpoint to that evidence.
edit: Aargh one of these days I'll learn not to start a post then go to lunch...
Actually I think his powers probably did play a major factor. Look throughout the series history, just many times that someone gained great power that they weren't meant to have, that person has become obssessed, more evil, or at the very least prone to more violent urges.
Case 1.) Dr. Williamson (Astral Monkey) He is injected with the Halliwells blood and gains their powers. Even though they were "good" powers they still corrupted the good doctor. Driving him to commit violent acts and making him do whatever it takes to achieve his goal, saving the person he loved.
Case 2.) Karen & Paige (The Fifth Halliwheel). Infected with a demonic power by the Powerbrokers she is driven insane. She seeks vengeance against Elist and tries to kill her. As for Paige her trying to destroy the taunting Cole is understandable, but even after Cole has left she continues to attack the house.
Case 3.) The demon virus (Hulkus Pocus). When humans are infected with demon blood once more they go crazy. Infected Billie attacked the Charmed Ones, the infected Charmed Ones attacked Leo and almost each other.
Case 4.) Ronnie & Denise (Ordinary Witches) When these two "ordinary" people receive the power of Phoebe & Piper respectively, suddenly both seem very open to the possibility of killing Ronnie's ex-girlfriend for cheating. And it really doesn't sound like they are joking, their tone certainly doesn't relay joking. And it's mentioned several times.
Case 5.) The Hollow - (Charmed & Dangerous AND KBv2) The hollow is not really said to have a mind of its own by anybody is it? It's just an immense power that corrupts anyone who absorbs it making them become obssessed with power...
Heck the more I think about the more I wonder if the Source & Zankou's stupidity of attacking directly after absorbing only 2 Charmed powers could be linked to the Charmed powers increasing their obssession to destroy the COs to the point where they abandoned all their plans in order to arrogantly/stupidly attack.
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charmedgoddess
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Post by charmedgoddess on Aug 2, 2006 16:38:40 GMT -5
xenith I think you have great point and I agree on all account except for the wasteland, if you remember. Cole was going to have it kill him when he adanvertanly got the demons power, then he started asorbing other vanquished demons. He did it for power to get out of the wasteland and back to phoebe, not to save or protect her.
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Post by Xenith on Aug 2, 2006 17:25:31 GMT -5
That Wasteland scene is definitely a confusing mess the more I watch it... I mean like I said before in no way does Phoebe make it clear on her first visit that she and Cole are definitely through, that there is absolutely no chance.
So then why would Cole want to die at this point? Did he think that Phoebe dissapearing was because the Sandworm absorbed her? Yet he looked more confused than sad or angry when she dissapeared. It just doesn't make sense why all of a sudden he would want to be eaten?
Which is why I believe that he had planned to destroy the Sandworm.
First of all don't they make a point to show Cole while he is with Phoebe watching powers falling from the sky, indicating he knows what they are. So what I've always thought is that Cole had already absorbed powers as soon as Phoebe left, and that he then planned to try and kill the Sandworm. When the sandworm goes to attack him he raises his hands expecting to use . However when he steps onto the power, what comes out of his hands is very different and much stronger than he expected. Thus his confusion and staring at his hands.
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Post by starlascharmed on Aug 9, 2006 2:26:25 GMT -5
"I think actors use their characters to exorcise their demons.That's the wonderful thing about it - we have to play pretty deep and hard, so we're going to expose all kinds of stuff." - Julian McMahon 2006 "Nip/Tuck" .... Dr. Christian Troy - Cindy Plumb (2006) TV Episode .... Dr. Christian Troy - Cherry Peck (2005) TV Episode .... Dr. Christian Troy - Quentin Costa (2005) TV Episode .... Dr. Christian Troy - Joy Kringle (2005) TV Episode .... Dr. Christian Troy - Sal Perri (2005) TV Episode .... Dr. Christian Troy (40 more) Fantastic Four (2005) .... Victor Von Doom Fantastic Four (2005) (VG) (voice) .... Victor Von Doom/Dr. Doom "Charmed" .... Cole Turner (2000-2003) - The Seven Year Witch (2005) TV Episode .... Cole Turner - Centennial Charmed (2003) TV Episode .... Cole Turner - The Importance of Being Phoebe (2003) TV Episode .... Cole Turner - Y Tu Mummy También (2003) TV Episode .... Cole Turner - Sam I Am (2002) TV Episode .... Cole Turner (45 more) Prisoner (2005) .... Derek Plato Meet Market (2004) .... Hutch Another Day (2001) (TV) .... David ... aka Passion impossible (Canada: French title) Chasing Sleep (2000) .... George ... aka Insomnies (Canada: French title) (France) "Profiler" .... Det. John Grant (1996-2000) - Blind Eye (1999) TV Episode .... Det. John Grant - Reunion: Part 1 (1999) TV Episode .... Det. John Grant - Heads, You Lose (1999) TV Episode .... Det. John Grant - Inheritance (1999) TV Episode .... Det. John Grant - Ceremony of Innocence (1999) TV Episode .... Det. John Grant (11 more) "Will & Grace" - Where There's a Will, There's No Way (1998) TV Episode .... Guy In Quiet Night (1998) .... Hayes ... aka You Belong to Me Forever (USA: TV title) Magenta (1996) .... Michael Walsh "Another World" (1964) TV Series .... Ian Rain (1992-1994) ... aka Another World: Bay City Wet and Wild Summer! (1992) .... Mick Dooley ... aka Exchange Lifeguards (Australia) "Home and Away" (1988) TV Series .... Ben Lucini (1989-1991) "The Power, the Passion" (1989) TV Series .... Kane Edmonds I am a hard core Julian Fan. Here is a list of some of his work in case others wanted to know!  to Julian I Love You... |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Aug 16, 2006 10:46:27 GMT -5
Actually I think his powers probably did play a major factor.
I don't think his powers in Season 5 had played a major factor. I think that his inability to deal with his breakup with Phoebe is what really caused his decline. He seemed to be dealing with his new powers just fine. His decline began when Barbas tried to convince him that he was evil. Matters became worse when Phoebe became increasing cold to him. First, he tried to commit suicide because he could not deal with her hostility and indifference. And when that didn't work, he "left the building", so to speak. I did not see any signs of his powers influencing his state of mind. Phoebe claimed that it was his so-called "evil" powers, but as usual, she was jumping to conclusions without any real evidence.
I realize the show has tried to sell the idea that magic is either good or evil. Frankly, I never bought it. I mean . . . how can Piper's molecular power be considered only good, when it can be destructive to just about anyone? Magic is magic, as far as I'm concerned. It's neutral. Even the show had projected this message without realizing it. In Season 4's "Lost and Bound", Tyler's pyrokinetic abilities were viewed by Piper and Leo as neutral. According to Piper, powers or magic isn't evil. It was all about how it was used. Yet, in other episodes, the sisters and Leo viewed pyrokinesis as evil or demonic. Go figure.
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Post by Xenith on Aug 16, 2006 13:39:14 GMT -5
Actually I think his powers probably did play a major factor.
I don't think his powers in Season 5 had played a major factor. I think that his inability to deal with his breakup with Phoebe is what really caused his decline. He seemed to be dealing with his new powers just fine. His decline began when Barbas tried to convince him that he was evil. Matters became worse when Phoebe became increasing cold to him. First, he tried to commit suicide because he could not deal with her hostility and indifference. And when that didn't work, he "left the building", so to speak. I did not see any signs of his powers influencing his state of mind. Phoebe claimed that it was his so-called "evil" powers, but as usual, she was jumping to conclusions without any real evidence.
Then how can you say you believe Cole was possessed by the Source when Cole merely absorbed his powers through the Hollow? Let me try and answer, because Cole didn't just absorb the Source's powers, he absorbed part or all of his Essence. How was the Source different from all the demons in the Wasteland? Why would absorbing the Source's powers take in the Source's essence, but absorbing another demon's powers from the Wasteland would not absorb a part of that demon's essence?
In witches and probably warlocks powers are powers may be powers and nothing more. They can be used for good or evil. But with demons their powers seem to not only be a part of their bodes, but an extension of their very being, their "essence". So if you absorb the powers of the evil demon then that demons voice could quite possibly appear in the back of your mind, urging you towards evil, waiting for a moment of weakness, its chance to take control.
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Post by alwayscole on Sept 1, 2006 16:28:54 GMT -5
"I think actors use their characters to exorcise their demons.That's the wonderful thing about it - we have to play pretty deep and hard, so we're going to expose all kinds of stuff." - Julian McMahon 2006 "Nip/Tuck" .... Dr. Christian Troy - Cindy Plumb (2006) TV Episode .... Dr. Christian Troy - Cherry Peck (2005) TV Episode .... Dr. Christian Troy - Quentin Costa (2005) TV Episode .... Dr. Christian Troy - Joy Kringle (2005) TV Episode .... Dr. Christian Troy - Sal Perri (2005) TV Episode .... Dr. Christian Troy (40 more) Fantastic Four (2005) .... Victor Von Doom Fantastic Four (2005) (VG) (voice) .... Victor Von Doom/Dr. Doom "Charmed" .... Cole Turner (2000-2003) - The Seven Year Witch (2005) TV Episode .... Cole Turner - Centennial Charmed (2003) TV Episode .... Cole Turner - The Importance of Being Phoebe (2003) TV Episode .... Cole Turner - Y Tu Mummy También (2003) TV Episode .... Cole Turner - Sam I Am (2002) TV Episode .... Cole Turner (45 more) Prisoner (2005) .... Derek Plato Meet Market (2004) .... Hutch Another Day (2001) (TV) .... David ... aka Passion impossible (Canada: French title) Chasing Sleep (2000) .... George ... aka Insomnies (Canada: French title) (France) "Profiler" .... Det. John Grant (1996-2000) - Blind Eye (1999) TV Episode .... Det. John Grant - Reunion: Part 1 (1999) TV Episode .... Det. John Grant - Heads, You Lose (1999) TV Episode .... Det. John Grant - Inheritance (1999) TV Episode .... Det. John Grant - Ceremony of Innocence (1999) TV Episode .... Det. John Grant (11 more) "Will & Grace" - Where There's a Will, There's No Way (1998) TV Episode .... Guy In Quiet Night (1998) .... Hayes ... aka You Belong to Me Forever (USA: TV title) Magenta (1996) .... Michael Walsh "Another World" (1964) TV Series .... Ian Rain (1992-1994) ... aka Another World: Bay City Wet and Wild Summer! (1992) .... Mick Dooley ... aka Exchange Lifeguards (Australia) "Home and Away" (1988) TV Series .... Ben Lucini (1989-1991) "The Power, the Passion" (1989) TV Series .... Kane Edmonds I am a hard core Julian Fan. Here is a list of some of his work in case others wanted to know! to Julian I Love You... You know him well, you must be a fan also! Are you? |
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Post by starlascharmed on Sept 3, 2006 1:37:47 GMT -5
You couldent tell? LOL I love him, he is the greatest man on charmed, besides Leo of course.
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Post by charmrox on Sept 12, 2006 0:42:36 GMT -5
Im pretty sure that its obvious that you love him starla
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Post by *Sammi!* on Sept 17, 2006 15:16:22 GMT -5
I lurve him too!! Who wouldnt?!
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Sept 28, 2006 13:50:50 GMT -5
Actually I think his powers probably did play a major factor. Look throughout the series history, just many times that someone gained great power that they weren't meant to have, that person has become obssessed, more evil, or at the very least prone to more violent urges.
I disagree. Why? Because the series portrayed Cole's growing despondency over Phoebe's refusal to forgive him or take him back as the reason why he finally went over the edge . . . despite what Phoebe was saying. I saw his depression over their breakup as the reason why he finally lost his mind, not any inability to handle greater power. Just because the series has shown others being unable to handle strong powers, doesn't mean that it was the case with Cole. Even though Phoebe insisted that the so-called "evil powers" was the reason why she could never reconcile with him, I think that she simply was too afraid due to her own insecurities and her tendency to project her fears upon Cole. And he, rather stupidly, didn't have the sense to realize that he should have ignored her.
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Post by *Sammi!* on Sept 28, 2006 16:30:33 GMT -5
I agree, Cole used to be one of the most powerful Demons of all time... therefore I dont think that he would struggle with greater power, I mean, just how much more power can the Source possess... and he was completely in love with Phoebe and her refusal to forgive him, tipped him...
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Elder
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Post by Elder on Oct 5, 2006 14:30:27 GMT -5
Cole versus the wasteland snake: I hope this hasn't been discussed yet...  How is it Cole could have been invincible after his meeting with the wasteland snake? If Cole was invicible after taking the powers from the snake-thingy then how did the snake-thingy get beaten by any being since it too would have been invincible? Sure, I get the snake didn't have any arms, legs...but it still had the powers and Cole stole them and toasted the snake after it also had the invincible powers. Does that make sense?  |
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