Did Piper ever truly accept Paige?

[Astral Alex]

Mar 28, 2011 17:36:26 GMT -5 dylan345 said:

Paige should never have been viewed as a replacement. There is no such thing when someone loses a loved one. As a Charmed One, yes, she was a replacement for their lost power, but as a sister, she had never even met Prue in her life, and had grown up in a completely different environment. She had no reason to be like Prue at all.

I wouldn't expect Piper and Paige to ever sit down with their arms around each other and talk like Prue and Piper did in "Heartbreak City." And we don't have to see Piper and Paige going out together all the time and finding a ton of things they have in common. But all I wanted to see was a friendly, warm relationship after season four, which I see as Piper's grieving time.

We actually saw the two of them at their closest in season four, oddly enough. There's the time in "Black as Cole" when Piper takes Paige's hand when they go up to the attic, or later in the season when Piper shows concern over Paige and goes to sit with her the morning following Paige's incident with the vampires. And of course the mourning scene on the bed following Cole's vanquish.

Piper just never seemed like she wanted Paige around after season four. Her words to her always lacked any warmth at all, and when they argued I sensed a true dislike between the two of them that I never sensed between Prue and Phoebe when they didn't get along.

I don't blame Piper for not making Paige her new best friend. But her coldness to the poor girl who probably felt like a fifth wheel most of her time with them anyway was just heartbreaking to watch.

I bless you for this, especially the last part.

Heartbreaking is exactly how Season Four felt. I know it seems very sad (but when you love Charmed as much as I do) you know the characters inside out, and inside, Paige was dying to be loved and accepted. I think the writers included extremely subtle hits about this, but by about Season Seven, I think Paige gave up hope of ever bonding with Piper on a sisterly level.

Although, sometimes I thought the chemistry between Phoebe and Paige was very forced, I think it was mostly due to Alyssa's acting.

[dylan345]

Thank you Astral Alex.

I think Piper simply being kind to her would have been enough for Paige. Paige clearly was a party girl and had a lot of friends, but I think ever since her parents died she probably had a strong desire for a family, and when she finally got that and felt that Piper didn't want her around, who knows what kind of a deep effect that had on her?

I also got the feel that around season seven, Paige didn't even try anymore. There were some nice moments but it was more like because the two knew they needed to be nice and didn't fight it; not like the desire to act in a kind way truly came from their hearts.

With Phoebe and Paige, it could have been that the writers always wrote those two to be close, but that the actresses, while they probably got along fine, weren't best friends. Like with Prue and Piper, they were written to be very close, and the actresses are still good friends today. Alyssa and Rose may have gotten along well, but weren't best friends, so that's probably why it seemed forced.

[ljones]

The interaction between Alyssa and Rose didn't seem forced to me. I thought it was only natural that Paige would not have so much difficulty with Phoebe, considering the latter's neverending conflicts with Prue. However, when they started making Paige the dimwit of the century by mid-to-late Season 5, perhaps it started feeling that way.

[ghostrider]

I am not well versed on the later seasons so I can only comment on what members have contributed. If a strong sisterly bond never really formed between Piper and Paige why is that? Did the powers that be do this on purpose thus revamping the show to be about three witches that just happen to be related? Or did too much emotional water destroy the dam of reality that could never be repaired? If the latter is correct than were we watching 3 people act, or just react to a real life situation?

[erikamarie]

Piper and Phoebe have a different way of expressing affection
Phoebe was always more comunicative more loving, a darling searching for cuddles
Piper is not able to show love with words or cuddles or hugs but caring in a practical way, for example, working in a bank to pay for Grams'medical care without complaining while hating that kind of job
Piper is a chef: we know this since the first episode when Phoebe and Prue are discussing and she proposes to make a" fabulous reunion dinner"
In Hell Hath No Fury her way to apologize to Paige is bringing her a basket of muffins (Busywork. I'm best in the kitchen. Prue was the one that liked to, uh, chase demon)
The intimacy that exists between Phoebe and Piper, between Piper and Paige will probably grow over time, but Piper has a strong sense of family she immediately feels responsible for the security of Paige
However, she gradually grows fond of Paige and she shows it when she cooks for Kyle and Paige or when she messes up her home to prepare for the engagement party or when she offers her wedding dress to Paige: actions more significant than of kisses and hugs
Piper thinks that her baby name had to be full of meaning: she doesn't care of P name, but Prudence in memory of her beloved sister and Melinda in memory of the little girl that touched her heart in the future
In Baby'first Demon she'll give the baby the middle name of Matthew " in honour of his super protective Aunt Paige"
I think this is more meaningful than a thousand of loving words and hugs

[Esmeralda]

Apr 27, 2011 2:17:32 GMT -5 erikamarie said:

In Baby'first Demon she'll give the baby the middle name of Matthew " in honour of his protective Aunt Paige"

Which she would not have been if they weren't witches. It was more as a thank-you for saving Wyatt, the way his middle name would've been anyone who had saved him, than the fact that Piper actually cared for Paige as a sister.

[Esmeralda]

Mar 29, 2011 14:57:15 GMT -5 dylan345 said:

Thank you Astral Alex.

I think Piper simply being kind to her would have been enough for Paige. Paige clearly was a party girl and had a lot of friends, but I think ever since her parents died she probably had a strong desire for a family, and when she finally got that and felt that Piper didn't want her around, who knows what kind of a deep effect that had on her?

I also got the feel that around season seven, Paige didn't even try anymore. There were some nice moments but it was more like because the two knew they needed to be nice and didn't fight it; not like the desire to act in a kind way truly came from their hearts.

With Phoebe and Paige, it could have been that the writers always wrote those two to be close, but that the actresses, while they probably got along fine, weren't best friends. Like with Prue and Piper, they were written to be very close, and the actresses are still good friends today. Alyssa and Rose may have gotten along well, but weren't best friends, so that's probably why it seemed forced.

I agree with this completely. For this you have been blessed, Dylan!

[Astral Alex]

Apr 27, 2011 2:17:32 GMT -5 erikamarie said:

Piper and Phoebe have a different way of expressing affection
Phoebe was always more comunicative more loving, a darling searching for cuddles
Piper is not able to show love with words or cuddles or hugs but caring in a practical way, for example, working in a bank to pay for Grams'medical care without complaining while hating that kind of job
Piper is a chef: we know this since the first episode when Phoebe and Prue are discussing and she proposes to make a" fabulous reunion dinner"
In Hell Hath No Fury her way to apologize to Paige is bringing her a basket of muffins (Busywork. I'm best in the kitchen. Prue was the one that liked to, uh, chase demon)
The intimacy that exists between Phoebe and Piper, between Piper and Paige will probably grow over time, but Piper has a strong sense of family she immediately feels responsible for the security of Paige
However, she gradually grows fond of Paige and she shows it when she cooks for Kyle and Paige or when she messes up her home to prepare for the engagement party or when she offers her wedding dress to Paige: actions more significant than of kisses and hugs
Piper thinks that her baby name had to be full of meaning: she doesn't care of P name, but Prudence in memory of her beloved sister and Melinda in memory of the little girl that touched her heart in the future
In Baby'first Demon she'll give the baby the middle name of Matthew " in honour of his super protective Aunt Paige"
I think this is more meaningful than a thousand of loving words and hugs

Excellent theory. I do agree with you there, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate, I believe now after watching Seasons 4 - 8 chronologically that Piper did learn to love Paige, little tender moments like in 'Chris-Crossed' when Phoebe and Paige move out, and she holds her hand. Subtle, yet they tell a lot.

[ljones]

Why does Piper continue to view Paige as an inexperienced witch, even after Paige had been one for quite some time? It's like she doesn't want to admit that Paige can be on the same level as her and Phoebe.

Yet in "The Day the Magic Died", Paige seemed to be the only one capable of taking charge and discovering what was going on. I'm not saying that she was always at this top level. But Piper and Phoebe have also screwed up a lot over the years. Why did Piper always make a big deal when Paige screwed up?

[Esmeralda]

Apr 28, 2011 0:42:13 GMT -5 ljones said:

Why does Piper continue to view Paige as an inexperienced witch, even after Paige had been one for quite some time? It's like she doesn't want to admit that Paige can be on the same level as her and Phoebe.

Yet in "The Day the Magic Died", Paige seemed to be the only one capable of taking charge and discovering what was going on. I'm not saying that she was always at this top level. But Piper and Phoebe have also screwed up a lot over the years. Why did Piper always make a big deal when Paige screwed up?

I don't think she was thinking that Paige wasn't up to her and Phoebe's level; I think she was thinking that by saying that Paige had screwed up, especially as a witch, Piper was proving to herself that Paige wasn't up to *Prue's* level; that she had *not* truly taken Prue's place - the true reason why she could never truly accept Paige as a sister - some would say the "reason" why we never saw Prue.

And although I don't like giving Kern that much credit, *IF* that's the reason why you never saw Piper accepting Paige as a sister - to use as a reason why Prue never came back as a ghost - I'll have to tip my cap to him and his writers.

I think what you saw between Piper and Paige during "Hyde Park Reunion" was more Piper not wanting to be alone, no matter *who* that person was. As always, she was just using Paige because she was there, the way all the Halliwells just used rather than loved.

[Jad]

After Prue's death, Piper was always angry. A kind of anger that's so deep seated that she could never get over it or move on from it.

At first, Paige was strong well adjusted person. She kind of lost it over the years being around her older half-sisters.

Some of the fault with Piper and Paige's relationship falls on Paige as she continually wanted to distance herself from them. She did not share the emotional scares from having grown up with Grams and Victor, nor did she want them.

I think that Paige kept her distance on purpose with malice of forethought. It would have been nice if they showed Paige having some awareness of standing outside the emotional turmoil that was her sisters.

[ljones]

Apr 28, 2011 16:30:17 GMT -5 Jad said:

After Prue's death, Piper was always angry. A kind of anger that's so deep seated that she could never get over it or move on from it.

At first, Paige was strong well adjusted person. She kind of lost it over the years being around her older half-sisters.

Some of the fault with Piper and Paige's relationship falls on Paige as she continually wanted to distance herself from them. She did not share the emotional scares from having grown up with Grams and Victor, nor did she want them.

I think that Paige kept her distance on purpose with malice of forethought. It would have been nice if they showed Paige having some awareness of standing outside the emotional turmoil that was her sisters.

I don't think I agree with you. If Paige had a fault is that I think she went too far in trying to prove to Piper and Phoebe - especially Piper - that she was a part of the family. This would account for her misguided attempt to kill Cole in "Centennial Charmed" and her eagerness to help Phoebe kill Rick Gittridge, instead of questioning her sister's decision.

[Astral Alex]

I have actually altered my opinion on this matter greatly recently.

I think Piper bonded with Paige as a sister, but it was more of a distant bond. The sort of bond you would have with a sister if you saw them three/four times a year. But in all honesty, what do you expect?

She spent 28 years with Prue and Phoebe, she knew every little idiosyncracy and detail about them and then she was told that this complete stranger was her sister.

Piper's small monologue in 'Sam, I Am' changed my mind, when Piper says 'Paige is the reason I'm still standing here, she brought this family back together, she saved us.'

Paige serves more of a practical purpose in Piper's life than Phoebe does, but this is neccessary in every sibling relationship (talking from personal experience, and I'm still a teenager).

Paige was the glue of the family after Prue's death, and although being the youngest, she was one of the most mature and level-headed between Piper and Phoebe, she almost took on the role of middle sister. Phoebe was never supposed to be a middle sister, she always was and still is the baby of the family.

Piper and Paige's relationship is extremely complex, but in this thread I think people need to stop Kern-bashing and bringing Prue into the equation, Paige's inferiority complex towards Prue and Piper's deep love for her sister are obvious points that need to be raised, but I think over the course of the series there are subtle hints and gestures that show the steadily growing relationship between the two.

I would have loved to have seen Piper and Paige in their fifties/sixties. As technically, Piper will have known Paige longer than she had known Prue and they will have brought up children together etc. - I think in the future that would cement their relationship firmly.

[ljones]

May 3, 2011 19:06:19 GMT -5 Astral Alex said:

I have actually altered my opinion on this matter greatly recently.

I think Piper bonded with Paige as a sister, but it was more of a distant bond. The sort of bond you would have with a sister if you saw them three/four times a year. But in all honesty, what do you expect?

She spent 28 years with Prue and Phoebe, she knew every little idiosyncracy and detail about them and then she was told that this complete stranger was her sister.

Piper's small monologue in 'Sam, I Am' changed my mind, when Piper says 'Paige is the reason I'm still standing here, she brought this family back together, she saved us.'

Paige serves more of a practical purpose in Piper's life than Phoebe does, but this is neccessary in every sibling relationship (talking from personal experience, and I'm still a teenager).

Paige was the glue of the family after Prue's death, and although being the youngest, she was one of the most mature and level-headed between Piper and Phoebe, she almost took on the role of middle sister. Phoebe was never supposed to be a middle sister, she always was and still is the baby of the family.

Piper and Paige's relationship is extremely complex, but in this thread I think people need to stop Kern-bashing and bringing Prue into the equation, Paige's inferiority complex towards Prue and Piper's deep love for her sister are obvious points that need to be raised, but I think over the course of the series there are subtle hints and gestures that show the steadily growing relationship between the two.

I would have loved to have seen Piper and Paige in their fifties/sixties. As technically, Piper will have known Paige longer than she had known Prue and they will have brought up children together etc. - I think in the future that would cement their relationship firmly.

I think you mean 29 years . . . at least with Prue.

[Astral Alex]

If Piper was born in 1973 and Prue died in 2001, that makes 28 years?

[Esmeralda]

Hehehehe - all depends upon when Piper was born. Different episodes made it sound like it was different years. Typical inconsistent Charmed!

[ljones]

May 5, 2011 9:06:04 GMT -5 Astral Alex said:

If Piper was born in 1973 and Prue died in 2001, that makes 28 years?

Piper was born in 1972. Three episodes support this - "Thank You For Not Morphing", "Coyote Piper" and "Sympathy for the Demon". The first episode revealed that she is three years older than Phoebe, she graduated from high school in 1990 and according to a flashback, Victor left for good in 1977, when Piper was 5.

As technically, Piper will have known Paige longer than she had known Prue and they will have brought up children together etc. - I think in the future that would cement their relationship firmly.

All three sisters will raise their kids in one house?

[joshingabout]

What I think was meant was that the cousins would be raised more like siblings than cousins, given the CO's close-knit relationship, not that they'd all be raised in the Manor.

[Lexi]

*nods* That's what I was getting from that statement too

[Astral Alex]

ljones: I didn't mean that they would live together, but judging by the flashforward in 'Forever Charmed' (the last one, with Piper and her granddaughter) it is obvious that the cousins were extremely close judging by the CO's relationship.