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Post by outrage on Apr 13, 2015 11:48:23 GMT -5
Piper and Paige's relationship is never build upon or explored past Season 4, by which point it becomes a given that, at the very least, they are friendly. Which is a shame, considering sisterhood barely becomes a plotpoint in Paige seasons - Paige's plotlines usually revolve around anyone but her sisters, while Piper never comes out of her domestic bubble. It is just wasted potential yet again.
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Post by saritbatshir on Jul 31, 2017 0:30:28 GMT -5
It seems like some commenters are just biased against Paige.
Yes, Piper accepted Paige and loved her as a sister. Her relationship with Paige was always going to be different than her relationship with Phoebe or Prue because they didn't grow up together, and Paige came in after Piper lost a sister who had been with her all her life, but they did end up forming a sisterly bond.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 2, 2017 7:24:54 GMT -5
No, I'm not biased against Paige; I'm very biased against Piper because based on what we saw, she never accepted Paige as anything but a placeholder for Prue in the Power of Three - had the Charmed Ones not existed, she wouldn't have had anything to do with Paige. She couldn't and truly accept the fact that Prue was gone. Besides, her heart was too hard and too cold after Prue's death to let someone else in and set herself up for more pain.
If anything, I think Paige was very smart to quit trying to become close to Piper. Who'd want to be close to that bitch?
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Post by val1993 on Aug 3, 2017 15:56:49 GMT -5
I would like to believe that she eventually did, but it's hard to tell because starting from season 4 Piper and Phoebe were more concentrated on their personal lives than on the sisterly bond. And unfortunately, there was a lack of chemistry between actresses...
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 8, 2017 18:39:44 GMT -5
It seems like some commenters are just biased against Paige. Yes, Piper accepted Paige and loved her as a sister. Her relationship with Paige was always going to be different than her relationship with Phoebe or Prue because they didn't grow up together, and Paige came in after Piper lost a sister who had been with her all her life, but they did end up forming a sisterly bond. I keep seeing new members thinking that because I don't think Piper ever formed a sisterly bond with Paige that that makes me and others who feel the same way biased against Paige. As I've said before: No, I'm not biased against Paige; I'm very biased against Piper because based on what we saw, she never accepted Paige as anything but a placeholder for Prue in the Power of Three - had the Charmed Ones not existed, she wouldn't have had anything to do with Paige. She couldn't and truly accept the fact that Prue was gone. Besides, her heart was too hard and too cold after Prue's death to let someone else in and set herself up for more pain. If anything, I think Paige was very smart to quit trying to become close to Piper. Who'd want to be close to that bitch? I think you see what you want to see. Some fans wanted Piper and Paige to have a sisterly bond so they saw it there. Those who didn't didn't see it. |
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cyma
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Post by cyma on Aug 11, 2017 12:38:13 GMT -5
 So apparently, Piper telling Paige she loves her is flagged as NSFW( Not Safe or Suitable For Work; i.e., containing graphic or adult imagery, such as content that might be offensive to employers or co-workers) by Tumblr.  I can't imagine how Tumblr's systems would treat the 'I love you' moments between Prue, Piper and Phoebe, Because they're endless. Lol. |
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Post by morrigan on Aug 24, 2017 10:36:53 GMT -5
I think she accepted her but their relationship was always going to be odd.
You have to remember that she did not grow up with paige and had no idea she existed until prue died. In her mind, it is likely that paige on some level always reminds her of Prue's death because she is a charmed one simply because of prue's death. Sure, maybe they would have found her at some point if prue didn't die, but I would think for Piper knowing that prue died and this is when Paige became a charmed on is always going to be a little awkward. And she has no history with Paige so that might make the closeness that come with history and knowing so much about a person seem a bit more distant.
Also, Paige is the polar opposite of Piper. Paige was an only child and early episodes do play to her solitary nature which comes up a few more times in the show. Interestingly with some time off from the series (about five years) and now rewatching I can see that they actually bring up Paige being an only child rather often without bringing it up directly. She goes her own way, does her own thing and even seems flightly. I think that is because she is trying to figure out who she is now in the context of being a younger sister of three where before she was an only child. She has to find her place and make sense of it and also of being the youngest where an only child would be more like the oldest. Contrast that with Piper who was the middle child and now clashing a bit with Paige because paige has that older child energy as an only child which now piper does to after prue's death and it might seem like they just don't click and like Piper isn't accepting her but really she's trying to adapt and having a sister that is only with them a few years compared to the others which were her whole life (twenty plus years when we start the show) and it's going to seem a bit different.
It doesn't seem that way with phoebe I think because Pheobe has that empathic energy and is very welcoming where piper was always a bit walled off except for people she know for a long time with leo being the one exception. Phoebe was actually more naturally suited to being a middle child as she matured. She became less of a free spirit once she became a columnist and very rooted in her career. And her powers of empathy (even if she didn't have them long during the show) made her more natural to forming a closer bond with Paige than Piper would.
I think for how things happened and the way they were, Piper did accept her but it might come across as she didn't at time being a now oldest sister to the group and trying to also keep things together for them with paige bucking horns with her at times and wanting to go her own way as well as having a free spirit of her own.
I also think Piper seeing Paige as an inexperience witch is a bit of older/oldest sister interaction with the fact that during their formative years as witches (season 1-3 when the original sisters learned together) Paige was literally not there. Therefore all that learning and growing together stuff won't be part of how she sees Paige. She will see it as her role to watch out for the newest among them, her kid sister, who came to the game late when Piper, prue and phoebe had gotten their acts together and had sort of worked out their system of doing things and were in a kind of sync or flow. Paige was not there for any of that.
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Post by Elle Em on Aug 24, 2017 20:31:48 GMT -5
I agree, morrigan. It really does make sense that Piper can only see Paige while also seeing her dead sister. It's certainly not Paige's fault, and Piper knows that, but it would still make it hard to bond with her. Rewatching the first part of season four, I find myself feeling much more sympathetic towards Piper than I ever did before. I think any other time I watched it, I felt more in line with Phoebe. She was sad about Prue, but focused on befriending Paige and welcoming her. I felt so bad for Paige coming in so late in the game that I was just glad at least one of her sisters was accepting.
But then I really tried to see things from Piper's point of view. Her older sister and best friend dies with no warning, her younger sister is risking her life soon after, her husband with the healing powers that has never let them down before was unable to save the day, her sister's boyfriend is attracting all sorts of demons to himself, and she just found out she was lied to nearly her whole life about the existence of another younger sister, one who she undoubtedly would have been as close to as Phoebe had Paige grown up with them.
At any other time Piper was this stressed out and overwhelmed, I can see her sitting down with Prue at the end of a long day, and the two of them talking it out or just sharing how they feel. Only this time, for the first time in Piper's whole life, Prue isn't there. And she could talk to Phoebe or Leo but no matter how close she is to the two of them, it isn't the same. I can see for the first time how completely and utterly alone she must have felt. So I can definitely understand why she wasn't as welcoming of Paige as Phoebe was.
I used to dislike Piper for not even seeming like she was trying to bond with Paige, but now I'm just impressed that it only took Piper a few episodes--in the show probably a few months--to genuinely act like she likes Paige and make an effort to welcome her into the family. In rewatching the first half of season four, there are so many moments after the first few episodes when those two are close. Piper seems to be amused by Paige's sarcasm and patient with her learning about being a witch, there was the episode when Piper's going through a lot of effort to make Paige dinner for when she gets back from the past with Leo, and there's how the two of them seem to stick together when Cole and Phoebe are having any type of an issue. I'm loving watching their relationship develop in this season.
But in season five and onwards, it seems like that all goes out the window. To be fair, all three of them don't really feel like sisters anymore in the second half of the show. But if things had continued the way they began in season four, I think we would have seen a really sweet relationship develop between Piper and Paige, so long as Paige could wait for Piper to come to terms with Prue's death, and so long as Piper could separate the circumstances of learning about Paige from Paige herself.
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rebooted
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Post by rebooted on Aug 25, 2017 0:57:40 GMT -5
So apparently, Piper telling Paige she loves her is flagged as NSFW( Not Safe or Suitable For Work; i.e., containing graphic or adult imagery, such as content that might be offensive to employers or co-workers) by Tumblr. I can't imagine how Tumblr's systems would treat the 'I love you' moments between Prue, Piper and Phoebe, Because they're endless. Lol. Do you think its because you can see Paige's nipple? |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 25, 2017 5:50:39 GMT -5
It's two women saying they love each other. The censor automatically thinks that they're lesbians, forgetting that there are a lot of other types of love besides sexual.
Does Tumblr do the same thing when Prue finally tells Piper that she loves her in 'From Fear to Eternity'? If not, well, then maybe it *is* the nipple, but Charmed did that a lot, so there should've been a lot of censoring. Was there?
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craig
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Post by craig on Aug 25, 2017 7:45:01 GMT -5
It's two women saying they love each other. The censor automatically thinks that they're lesbians, forgetting that there are a lot of other types of love besides sexual. Does Tumblr do the same thing when Prue finally tells Piper that she loves her in 'From Fear to Eternity'? If not, well, then maybe it *is* the nipple, but Charmed did that a lot, so there should've been a lot of censoring. Was there? This is the first time, I have seen it done for Charmed. Whenever I view Charmed stuff on Tumblr, I never see this before. Maybe it is just somebody or some complaining to Tumblr to get it censored? |
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Post by sol on Aug 29, 2017 1:38:28 GMT -5
No, I'm not biased against Paige; I'm very biased against Piper because based on what we saw, she never accepted Paige as anything but a placeholder for Prue in the Power of Three - had the Charmed Ones not existed, she wouldn't have had anything to do with Paige. She couldn't and truly accept the fact that Prue was gone. Besides, her heart was too hard and too cold after Prue's death to let someone else in and set herself up for more pain. If anything, I think Paige was very smart to quit trying to become close to Piper. Who'd want to be close to that bitch? Think of Piper She was still stunned for the lose of her sister, her best friend, and has to hear this explanation As they have to kill Prue to add Paige Piper then accepted Paige, she grew close to her, but could she ever forget she had to lose her Prue for this new sister? I cannot believe it |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 29, 2017 6:05:08 GMT -5
Which is why she never accepted Paige. As a member of the Power of Three because she had to, yes. As a member of the family and her sister, no.
Deep inside, she always believed that accepting Paige meant turning her back on Prue, especially when Paige had told her that it was okay to hate Prue when she didn't hate Prue - she loved Prue, just hated her for dying - and after what Paige had told her, loving Paige would be the same as hating Prue. Between Patty calling someone she'd never met her baby sister and then Paige telling her to hate Prue, no wonder she could never truly accept Paige, why she didn't fight Leo to look for Paige, the way I'm sure she would've had she found Paige but not Phoebe.
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Post by adzpower on Aug 29, 2017 14:42:55 GMT -5
After looking through the replies and giving it some thought. I think Piper did in fact love Paige. BUT I don't think she ever really loved her as a sister. She accepted her into the family because she had to, it was necessary to continue the power of three and for them to form some sort of bond to strengthen that power.
But Piper grew up with Phoebe and Prue, had them be with her through everything from when she was born, they were a part of her if that makes sense. And yes, like I said, I think she did grow to love Paige, but more as a best friend, rather than as a sister. We see quite a few times over the years, Piper's instinct is to always pick Phoebe, to look for Phoebe, to make sure Phoebe is okay if she knows that both her remaining sisters are in danger.
Kill Billie Vol 2 is a prime example, the manor explodes, she finds Phoebe's corpse and grieves, and then Leo comes back and they go, only when she heard someone groan did she think that maybe Paige had survived, it was a second thought, an "oh yeah my other sister is here somewhere as well", and then they just left without looking for a body, I know the police were coming, but she could have frozen them!
That's not to say they didn't forge a closer bond once the show was over, we only saw them together for five years, compared to the 30+ she spent with Phoebe, its not even a contest, but for all we know in todays world Piper may hold Paige in the same regard, its now been 16 years since Prue died and they found Paige, much longer to forge a closer relationship.
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Aug 30, 2017 22:45:14 GMT -5
Well, if despite the explosion, 'Forever Crap', I mean 'Forever Piper' and 'Forever Charmed' is real, and not Piper's delusion as she dies after the explosion in 'Kill Billie, Vol 2' as I believe, then the fact that she has the picture of her, Phoebe and Paige on the wall and not the picture of her, Phoebe and Prue, they probably did.
If that was just her delusion as she was unconscious after said explosion (it makes no sense otherwise, just like 'All Hell Breaks Loose' or 'It's a Bad, Bad, Bad, Bad World - typical Kern) and she survived and they retired when the kids took over, I doubt if they had much to do with each other, since the only thing that gave them a bond was demon-fighting.
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Post by sol on Aug 31, 2017 0:20:22 GMT -5
It is realistic that Piper was so shocked by the death of her baby sister to forget about Paige's existence
At that point of their lives, Piper and Paige were great friends,partners of battles and troubles and fears but a true, strong bond with sisters takes time
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Post by morrigan on Aug 31, 2017 19:16:47 GMT -5
I don't really think Piper is distant to Paige so much as she is distant in general with people as the show evolves. She starts out as a bit pessimistic in nature and not really what I would call an open connecting kind of person by any stretch. Her tone from the start is more cranky/snarky, almost the polar opposite of phoebe. As time passes in the show, she really closes herself off from basically everyone but next of kin. That was always her nature too, to become distant. There are episodes where Piper is all about detaching from dating (season 1 and 2) or just being frustrated with dealing with people. So frankly, if she were to be super cozy with paige, a person she met later on when she had already gotten super good at distancing herself from people, I would be shocked.
I think people are reading quite a lot into how they think Piper feels and not really considering who she is and how she is. Paige might be her sister, but page is very new in her life and arrived at a time when Piper had closed herself off even more. She is caring in her own way but she is never going to really show it like Phoebe would. Prue really was the one she was the closest too of everyone in the show minus Leo and even with Leo she gets distant with him often enough too.
Perhaps it's not that she never accepted Paige as a sister but rather that by that time she was more closed off from everyone and not really warming up to anyone beyond her kids and those that she was already connected to (Phoebe and Leo) and that I think is more about intimacy. She's not really ever very intimate with Paige. They never really sit and connect like she did with Prue or Phoebe from what I remember and I think that is a bit on Paige as well. Paige is very much any only child who goes off and does her own thing. The only reason Phobe and her connect is because Phoebe's nature is to connect with people. She warms up to everyone which is why Cole fell for her. It's kind of interesting that the only person that really suited Piper was an 'angel'. She didn't really connect with anyone else in any notable way. She keeps everyone at a distance. Even leo gets it at times. Piper and Prue though were different having known her for her whole life. And in season 1 and 2 she pulls away in relationships pretty often and easily. And she is very iffy even with leo. She's not a lovey dovey person. She's a walled off person who has let only a few people in which makes sense given the death of her mother at a young age, the death of her grams right when she became a witch and become more closed off and protective because of it, and her father not being around at all for a huge chunk of her life.
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Post by Elle Em on Sept 1, 2017 9:32:56 GMT -5
That's a really good analysis of Piper's personality. It makes a lot of sense. But in a show about sisterhood, it would have just been nice if, over time, Piper had made Paige the exception when it came to blocking most people out. I wish the writers had given them more in common so a friendship could develop after enough time had passed after Prue died.
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Post by morrigan on Sept 13, 2017 11:45:53 GMT -5
That's a really good analysis of Piper's personality. It makes a lot of sense. But in a show about sisterhood, it would have just been nice if, over time, Piper had made Paige the exception when it came to blocking most people out. I wish the writers had given them more in common so a friendship could develop after enough time had passed after Prue died. True. I think part of it is on the writers and maybe even that Holly never really clicked with Rose personally like she did with Shannen. One thing to note is how Piper really changed right around Prue's death. Even before then, she was a stressed out type of personality but could be softer in nature. After Prue's death is gets much harder, almost bitchy. Part of it is worry/stress and fear. That was always part of her nature and why she never wanted to be a witch, but I think what the writers did was just remove that softer side of her so she stood out as an individual among two sisters that had a softer side. Frankly, that is how Prue was. If you look at the first three years, the 'tough' guy was Prue and remember all the points they made about Prue not letting people in and not saying I love you, etc? They basically did a kind of copy/paste action with Piper. I suspect that is how they view an oldest sister or perhaps how lazy they were in the writing. Ultimately, all they did was really remove that key component from Piper that seemed to keep her warm and accessible and evolved her into a cranky, worried, cynical mother hen. She did still have some sweetness, but it was really sort of gone for all intent and purpose. She became the new prue. But I think, like you, that they should have had her soften with Paige a bit. It would have been nice if they had something to bond over. Maybe over cooking or making potions or something. They never really gave them any sort of bonding moment or things to bond over. I really think they needed that to have them be a bit closer. Paige is very independent and is written as such from start to finish. In rewatching I see it more now than I did back then. She's almost like the third wheel that shows up for 'witch' stuff. Even the fact that she is half whitelighter makes her more of an outsider to the sisters because she evolves more as a whitelighter (even becoming all about her charges in the future as we learn from Wyatt IIRC in that episode where their spell brings him to back to them). Overall it works well enough that Paige is going her own way but for those who really loved the sisterly bonding, that seems to kind of deteriorate over time. I think having paige be a little less independent and having Piper play middle sister at times still might have worked well and not made it so that paige/piper seemed to never click. Perhaps having piper play middle sister during a cole has gone evil scenario before piper could see it herself - doing a whole episode on that where paige ends up pitted against Phoebe and Piper tries to smooth it over and that is basically the whole point of the episode (whether or not cole had become evil again doesn't really matter) would have been a fantastic way to bring all three sisters onto the same page. They just really didn't seem to bother. I think the whole thing was kind of haphazardly handled and that is why they never connected or never seem to. Season 4-8 are really a lot more about cleavage and abs than sisterly bonds. |
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Post by Elle Em on Sept 13, 2017 17:04:27 GMT -5
Yes, I agree, Morrigan. Piper's reaction both initially and after time to Paige seems more like a reaction Prue would have if she had lost Piper or Phoebe and Paige then showed up. Although I understand the way Piper acted and the reasons for it, if Piper had warmed to Paige over time, I wouldn't have considered it out of step with her character. It's really quite a shame that the sweet and kind Piper from season 1 is all but dead by the time season 4 comes around. Of course she lost a lot of her beginning traits in seasons 2 and 3 as well, but there was still some shade of who she started out as in those seasons. Not so much in the entire latter half of the show.
I could totally see a scenario in which Paige and Phoebe, who started out so well with each other, end up at complete odds over the Cole issue. Maybe the time when Paige thought Cole was evil and no one believed her could be dragged out more to give Phoebe and Paige more time with some tension. Then if Cole is found to be evil, maybe Paige could even try to kill him or something out of self protection, and Phoebe still is blinded by her love for Cole and blames Paige further. Meanwhile, Piper is in the middle, mediating between her two younger sisters.
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I can't imagine how Tumblr's systems would treat the 'I love you' moments between Prue, Piper and Phoebe, Because they're endless. Lol.
