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Post by yinsoul on May 16, 2015 13:40:35 GMT -5
In my series of AU fan fiction, Phoebe and Cole never reconciled as a couple. Nor did I kill off Cole, remove his powers or transform him into some kind of "angel" or whitelighter. Matrimonial wise, Cole and Phoebe went their separate ways, but eventually attain some kind of peace with each other. Eventually. It took them a while. And Cole remained in San Francisco . . . as a half-demon. He also continued his profession as an attorney and did not return to any evil activities. I would like to read this. Its what I think should have happened with Cole. I hated, hated, hated how he ended up, just a satallite to Phoebe and constantly blamed. I know Paige needed him to save Phoebe from the mermaid thing but I was practically begging for him to resist that spell she placed on him to feel Phoebes leftover love. I thought myself of writing something where he is warned at that instant, not to give in. I should sometime. I wholeheartedly agree. I know some media mythos revolve around having no grey in their good and evil, but people just aren't like that. And perhaps neither are supernatural critters. |
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Post by lilchi7212 on Aug 23, 2015 14:33:27 GMT -5
I betcha the show runners didn't want this couple to be another Ross/Rachel thing. You know the whole will they or won't they get together throughout the series thing.
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Post by Sadrick on Aug 23, 2015 15:14:40 GMT -5
I believe they could have over time, yes, provided there were no impediments to drive a wedge between them like Raynor and the Seer ultimately caused. What really set Cole back from being able to properly assimilate into a human lifestyle is his harsh upbringing (assaulting that abusive landlord at Paige's office when he was already human shows how patience and reason weren't ingrained into mind when dealing with difficult situations) and other parties who were deadset on reverting him back to evil.
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Post by lilchi7212 on Aug 23, 2015 15:42:51 GMT -5
I believe they could have over time, yes, provided there were no impediments to drive a wedge between them like Raynor and the Seer ultimately caused. What really set Cole back from being able to properly assimilate into a human lifestyle is his harsh upbringing (assaulting that abusive landlord at Paige's office when he was already human shows how patience and reason weren't ingrained into mind when dealing with difficult situations) and other parties who were deadset on reverting him back to evil. I don't know what that guy did to set Cole off but he probably deserved it. Heck a lot of people are not patient anymore especially in this generation where people want something right now. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2015 17:04:59 GMT -5
Under Brad Kern's poison pen, nope.
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Post by lilchi7212 on Aug 24, 2015 7:47:01 GMT -5
The problem for me, well one of the problems anyway, lay in the attitude they had towards powers. Cole, you have demonic powers, therefore they're evil, therefore you're evil. WHA?! Not only does that contradict what they've said about powers in episodes like "Lost and Bound" and "Siren Song"... it also contradicts Cole's whole damn story! They had no problem with him using demonic powers to help them and save people back when he was Bethazor and now all of a sudden it makes him automatically evil whether he likes it or not? Cole: "I can't be good, I won't be evil. What do you want from me?"Good question Cole, good question. Honestly, if Cole had gotten away like he had intended to in A Witch's Tail pt2, he might have stood a chance at something resembling redemption. He needed to get away from the Halliwells and focus on doing some good. As for the whole black-white defense mechanism thing, yeah I think there's definitely something to that. The sisters hid behind their "good" label all the time. We're the Charmed Ones, just look at all the good we've done. They used it constantly as an excuse to get away with some seriously shady B.S. But all of it's okay... because they're goooooood  ...  Sounds like the Charmed Ones thought what they were doing was Righteous Indignation. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2015 23:47:48 GMT -5
that was the whole problem, IMO. This black and white thing was perfect for the 1950's, but not for a turn of the millennium show. I mentioned this in another thread, but I will repeat it here, because it fits with this argument. Execute Producers Aaron Spelling and E. Duke Vincent (born in 1923 and 1932) were, I think, part of the problem. Both came of age in the 1950's, and time locked Charmed into that bygone era. Why two men who's values were formed in the Eisenhower Administration were the ultimate authority of a show that started when Bill Clinton was President baffles me to no end. By inflicted Charmed with moral and values that were fifty years out of date, they caused the show to be anachronistic. As I said, this is why, IMO, Charmed has been sadly forgotten by mainstream fandom today. Spelling and Vincent simply didn't realize that the world had left them behind.
Now, take Supernatural, created by 1974 born Eric Kripke (he's eight years younger than I am). Now, this is a man who knew how to write for a modern audience. No rubbish black and white stuff here, rather its shades of gray all the way (hey, I made another rhyme). Dean and Sam are the good guys, yes, but they have done things and made decisions that could be called evil. Whenever they kill a demon, they know they're killing the human host of said demon, but they simply have no choice when it's kill or be killed.
That is why, IMO, SPN has enjoyed popular acclaim that Charmed has not. SPN was written for the audience of the Obama Administration, not the Eisenhower one.
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Post by Sadrick on Aug 25, 2015 2:12:09 GMT -5
that was the whole problem, IMO. This black and white thing was perfect for the 1950's, but not for a turn of the millennium show. I mentioned this in another thread, but I will repeat it here, because it fits with this argument. Execute Producers Aaron Spelling and E. Duke Vincent (born in 1923 and 1932) were, I think, part of the problem. Both came of age in the 1950's, and time locked Charmed into that bygone era. Why two men who's values were formed in the Eisenhower Administration were the ultimate authority of a show that started when Bill Clinton was President baffles me to no end. By inflicted Charmed with moral and values that were fifty years out of date, they caused the show to be anachronistic. As I said, this is why, IMO, Charmed has been sadly forgotten by mainstream fandom today. Spelling and Vincent simply didn't realize that the world had left them behind. Now, take Supernatural, created by 1974 born Eric Kripke (he's eight years younger than I am). Now, this is a man who knew how to write for a modern audience. No rubbish black and white stuff here, rather its shades of gray all the way (hey, I made another rhyme). Dean and Sam are the good guys, yes, but they have done things and made decisions that could be called evil. Whenever they kill a demon, they know they're killing the human host of said demon, but they simply have no choice when it's kill or be killed. That is why, IMO, SPN has enjoyed popular acclaim that Charmed has not. SPN was written for the audience of the Obama Administration, not the Eisenhower one. I'm not sure if politics is the underlying cause behind Charmed's relatively simplistic premise as it is the intended family audience of the show. Constance Burge was the original creator of the show who had the idea of three sisters living together that happened to be witches. It's certainly a more family-oriented idea compared to the paranormal series you cited for comparison. Supernatural was formatted as being like a cross-country road trip with horror elements and urban myth at the forefront of what the protagonists encounter. There's a sibling dynamic too, but SPN prides itself on the creatures, horror, and development that they yield. The original Charmed was about the sisterly dynamic and their lives in general with the supernatural themed elements taking a secondary role. How you described Dean and Sam's actions only scratches the surface. They've done things that would make the Halliwell Sisters' blood run cold while they're at their worst in S8. Nonchalantly executing men who were begging the brothers for their lives while bleeding out on the ground, kidnapping and slicing open an innocent woman so they can drink their blood until they're dead under the pretext of being for the "greater good", shooting young people in the head while under the effects of the Mark of Cain... Dean openly confessed that he enjoyed torturing souls while rotting in Hell; that's without any external elements influencing him. He also gave up humanity's one chance to close the gates of Hell permanently for his brother's sake. Sam without his soul killed many innocent people in the line of duty and not once did he show any hesitation in doing so. Even with his soul, Sam was willing to stab a little girl to death if it meant killing Lilith. He killed Dean's biological daughter, albeit she was indoctrinated into the life of an Amazon and was trying to kill Dean. Oh, and let's not forget him dabbling in evil magic with the Book of the Damned to save his brother from the Mark of Cain, which inadvertently released a primordial evil onto the universe that not even God could destroy. Sam could probably give Cole some competition in nefarious acts carried out. It's also not limited just to the Winchester Brothers. Castiel's development has lead him to become one of the most open-minded and righteous thinking characters on the show, yet he still has the blood of many humans and thousands of his own kind on his hands. Don't forget that he recently allowed an innocent boy to be bled to death for the sake of saving Dean. What I find most interesting is that Castiel has probably caused more death in his brief tenure as God than Cole did in the entire century which he was alive as Belthazor. Yet in spite of his mistakes, Castiel continues to be given second chances and look where it ended up. An almost human-like Angel who is doing what he can to repent. Both the Charmed Ones and the Winchesters ultimately let their desire to save their siblings' lives override their duties in helping people. The difference is that the Winchesters don't try to mask their imperfections with a holier-than-thou attitude. They're selfish, they're reckless, and they've pretty much resigned themselves to the notion that their journey can only end with their deaths. If you ask me, I think Bella's description was probably one of the most accurate in describing who the Winchester Brothers are - obsessed vengeance-driven hunters who are a stone's throw away from being serial killers. Sure, helping people is also part of their duties, but what Sam and Dean excel at most is killing. That's one important trait which separates them from people like the Halliwells who have not been faced with nowhere near the kind of difficult decisions which the brothers needed to make. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 6:32:40 GMT -5
You make some good points. That's why whenever Piper starts moaning about wanting a normal life, I say she should talk to the Winchester boys. They would trade places with her in a nanosecond.
And let's not forget the Supernatural demons, which could eat the Charmed demons for breakfast.
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Post by lilchi7212 on Aug 25, 2015 8:36:20 GMT -5
You make some good points. That's why whenever Piper starts moaning about wanting a normal life, I say she should talk to the Winchester boys. They would trade places with her in a nanosecond. And let's not forget the Supernatural demons, which could eat the Charmed demons for breakfast. Probably so! |
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Post by ljones on Sept 7, 2015 4:19:49 GMT -5
One, humans are not that nice. The Halliwells certainly weren't. In fact, as a species, we're pretty awful. We're quite capable of being harsh . . . even monstrous. We've revealed this tendency so many times throughout history. And we really don't know what kind of upbringing Cole had to make such a judgment. Are you assuming that his upbringing was harsh, because he was half-demon? Yet, the series had an episode about a demonic pair who were not only father and son, but quite clearly loved each other in a familial way.
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Post by aubreeryann on Oct 7, 2015 2:53:42 GMT -5
I will forever be #TeamCole but fans don't always get their way! One think I do really love that the writers snuck in whether it was intentional or not. In "All Halliwell's Eve" we find out that Phoebe's true love's name begins with a C. At the time we are led to believe it was Cole of course we find out that it really ended up being Coop. I truly hope the writers years later when coming up with the final season did that on purpose...
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Post by erikamarie on Oct 7, 2015 10:13:03 GMT -5
I consider Cole the more interesting male character of Charmed,I have a liking for him
I think that the story between Phoebe and Cole ended not because of his demonic side but because of his human side
Nothing to do with the fact that he was the Source, Cole behaves like a classic male traitor:he drags Phoebe in a dark wedding, impregnates her without her consent and her awareness, he accepts that she was drugged with a potion that affects their baby, he lies to her shamelessly
I'ld never forgive who lies to me shamelessly
I don't think that Cole was possessed by the Source, I think that Cole was subconsciously sick and tired of being human
After having been for years a powerful and feared demon, member of a mighty brotherhood, a vain man also- I remember his haute couture clothes- it must have been unbearable being no longer able to fight at Phoebe's side, having to be protected by he
He had to become a kept man, living with Piper's earnings, Piper who had to support the Manor, two sisters, her husband and her bother in law
As the Source, he got back to being a valuable member of the society a rich, lawyer who could afford a penthouse, buy stylish clothes to his wife, I think that Cole, without being fully aware, needed to get back to his previous life as demon and lawyer
Phoebe and Cole'ld have time to live together their "normal life", to understand what they wanted and to make plans, but they were overwhelmed by the inadequate time allowed by the frenzy of the Source
It was a pity, Cole is and will be the true love of Phoebe
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Post by Esmeralda on Oct 7, 2015 22:04:31 GMT -5
I consider Cole the more interesting male character of Charmed,I have a liking for him I think that the story between Phoebe and Cole ended not because of his demonic side but because of his human side Nothing to do with the fact that he was the Source, Cole behaves like a classic male traitor:he drags Phoebe in a dark wedding, impregnates her without her consent and her awareness, he accepts that she was drugged with a potion that affects their baby, he lies to her shamelessly I'ld never forgive who lies to me shamelessly I don't think that Cole was possessed by the Source, I think that Cole was subconsciously sick and tired of being human After having been for years a powerful and feared demon, member of a mighty brotherhood, a vain man also- I remember his haute couture clothes- it must have been unbearable being no longer able to fight at Phoebe's side, having to be protected by he He had to become a kept man, living with Piper's earnings, Piper who had to support the Manor, two sisters, her husband and her bother in law As the Source, he got back to being a valuable member of the society a rich, lawyer who could afford a penthouse, buy stylish clothes to his wife, I think that Cole, without being fully aware, needed to get back to his previous life as demon and lawyer Phoebe and Cole'ld have time to live together their "normal life", to understand what they wanted and to make plans, but they were overwhelmed by the inadequate time allowed by the frenzy of the Source It was a pity, Cole is and will be the true love of Phoebe Except for the last line - I think that Kyra is and always will be the true love of Phoebe, but how could an apple peel form a K? - that is the best explanation of what happened to Cole during S4 that I've ever read. Phoebe ruined Cole because she loved the lawyer not the demon (hence the reason why he could never be her true love, just like she could never be his). |
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Post by sol on Oct 8, 2015 9:26:24 GMT -5
Oh no, Phoebe loved Cole, the demon and the lawyer!
If she didn't love him, she'ld vanquish him, after all, Cole as Belthazar had tried to kill her sisters, to kill her
She loved the lawyer and she loved the demon but she wasn't able to love the Source and the man that lied to her
As for Kyra, I liked her but was only one of the persons that helped Phoebe to find confidence in life again, the other was Drake
In life and in friendship, remember that Andy was a beloved friend, Darryl was a trusty friend, Prue was her deep friend, Cole was her best friend and she lost all of them
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Post by Sadrick on Nov 13, 2015 9:35:51 GMT -5
One, humans are not that nice. The Halliwells certainly weren't. In fact, as a species, we're pretty awful. We're quite capable of being harsh . . . even monstrous. We've revealed this tendency so many times throughout history. And we really don't know what kind of upbringing Cole had to make such a judgment. Are you assuming that his upbringing was harsh, because he was half-demon? Yet, the series had an episode about a demonic pair who were not only father and son, but quite clearly loved each other in a familial way. Have you seen the state of affairs inside the underworld? It's an anarchic "society" where your position and right to live is largely defined by how much power you wield. Social Darwinism is the only absolute truth that they all share. Cole's experiences as a hybrid might have been influenced by his exposure to the human world, but he still grew up under the indoctrination of murdering, distrusting, and taking what he wanted because he's powerful enough to without concern for the consequences. The Halliwells became selfish and egotistical over the years, though I don't recall them ever assaulting a human over such "flimsy" pretenses. As for the father and son - I doubt their notions of affection or "love" are defined along the same lines as humans. Something tells me their connection was more along the lines of being kinsmen seeking to preserve and avenging themselves when a member was lost. |
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Post by prueturner61 on Nov 15, 2015 10:04:28 GMT -5
phoebe was too immature for someone like cole
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Post by lilchi7212 on Nov 16, 2015 22:50:35 GMT -5
It bothers me why she went along with a dark wedding in a grave yard you see to me that would send up red flags and also why didn't she used protection when she was having sex with Cole when he was the source? You have a slim chance of becoming pregnant if you use protection and you can't always trust the guy to use a condom.
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Nov 17, 2015 3:48:08 GMT -5
Maybe because the potion was too strong it would've cancelled any protection used at the time because it had Cole's blood in it and something of the Seer's secretly and the fact it was a full moon then also.
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Post by sol on Nov 17, 2015 12:21:20 GMT -5
It bothers me why she went along with a dark wedding in a grave yard you see to me that would send up red flags and also why didn't she used protection when she was having sex with Cole when he was the source? You have a slim chance of becoming pregnant if you use protection and you can't always trust the guy to use a condom. If contraceptive worked completely, maybe many of us'ld not be born! The potion made inoperative any kind of contraceptive Phoebe was using |
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