|
|
Post by erikamarie on Nov 12, 2015 15:03:05 GMT -5
Enough with clutching at straw!
To give a negative opinion on a character because she has sex with many men is sexist
I not even understand all this emphasis on clothing: I remember some Phoebe’s ugly evening dress, some Prues’ awkward triangle – not a shirt, only a triangle- some Paige’s miniskirt, nothing that might offend even a bigot
You'ld see some hot pans or mini-miniskirt that my feminist mother wore in the '70s, by comparison Phoebe’ld seem a nun!
Anyway the argument should be a character analysis, not the usual, boring whining about low-cut dresses
|
|
|
|
Post by erikamarie on Nov 12, 2015 12:04:54 GMT -5
A concept is a concept, fictional character or real woman, it's the same
|
|
|
|
Post by erikamarie on Nov 12, 2015 12:00:12 GMT -5
Hi! And thanks! That's also an interesting concept (Prue realizing good/evil aren't black and white) and totally agree with your point on Morality Bites, that's my same issue with why they attribute Prue's death to her vendetta. Yeah there wasn’t really meaning to her death, other than the reason the writers simply tossed in there, which was “Fate”. I think that one of the reasons why there is no meaning to her death is because right after she saves Dr. Griffiths, he dies. Her sacrifice seemed like it was for nothing. It’s not like she knew by reversing time she would die instead of Piper, so you can’t really say she sacrificed herself for Piper (though that would have been noble). It was all just a mishap. Also there are gaping plot holes in the season 3 finale, which is another reason why her death seemed futile. But again, it’s not like her Character’s death was intentionally written in the show to further the plot or theme. I would have handled season 4 differently as well. I mean, Evil wins at the end of season 3. A charmed one dies. A charmed one. The tone should have shifted completely. Gritty, dark, desperate, clinging to life. I think the writers should have written themselves out a different way instead of using the half sister ploy (or at least using it so soon. They should have gradually introduced it). I honestly didn't feel comfortable around Paige until... just until. I felt the same way AHBL and Charmed Again episodes are full of ideas and chance, wasted by the sword of Damocles of the closing of the series Sometimes I think it would be better that the writers paid no attention to the usually risk of closing, developping the planed plots, even at the risk of having to rustle up a final under the wire I'ld like better that Paige had come after a few episodes, not right away, the two-witches-and-an-half-demon plot was enjoyable, I loved to discover a new Piper, impetuous, cocky as she was not any more Piper but a tough Prue, I loved to see Phoebe to turn into the reasonable sister It'ld be intriguing if whave had more episodes only focused on the surviving sisters, on how they hit back in an unusual way at Prue's loss, how they changed:neither Piper nor Phoebe will be the same again Paige reacts to Piper's spell to call a lost witch going to the funeral, but she wasn't obligated to condole,she'ld leave quietly, unnoticed |
|
|
|
Post by erikamarie on Nov 12, 2015 11:21:17 GMT -5
I think that all the Seers were able to see a lot of the possible futures, Kyra revealed to Phoebe what the Avatars's future'ld be, but maybe Kyra saw the different future with three girls also
The problem is that I am not sure of who was Crone
BABY'S FIRST DEMON
Phoebe: Who are you?
Crone: I represent those in power
She was in power but it wasn't clear who she was, as well as an arrogant and confident woman
SENSE AND SENSE ABILITY
Kazi: Wait a minute, who are you?
Crone: Let's not strain your mind with too much information.
Kazi King: How dare you summon me here? Do you have any idea who you're dealing with?
Crone: Save your threats, they bore me
|
|
|
|
Post by erikamarie on Nov 12, 2015 11:04:35 GMT -5
I don't know what sacrifices she made but I thought Phoebe went through some adversity just like her sisters. I agree,all the Charmed Ones spent eight eerie years, for this reason I suppose that the Elders used Phoebe and Coop to make up a sort of witches strongly empathic, as if a genetic manipulation |
|
|
|
Post by erikamarie on Nov 12, 2015 4:46:11 GMT -5
Crone was searching for Wyatt why should she see Chris?
|
|
|
|
Post by erikamarie on Nov 12, 2015 4:44:57 GMT -5
I'ld never think that Phoebe would choose Paige over Prue! Phoebe and Paige got along very well but Prue was her big sister for all her life, the sister whose estimate was among the most important achievements for Phoebe Maybe. But not when Prue and Piper were so close and Phoebe was always the one on the outside looking in. She accepted Paige as a sister so quickly - I think, she was excited to finally have a sister *she* could be close to, to the point that she very seldom mentioned Prue after that. Of course it was actually Alyssa who was so excited to finally be the star, but it's still so very, very true. And I'll never forget the tone in her voice when she saw Prue the dog and told Paige, "Well, you always wanted to meet Prue..." If she truly felt about Prue the way you say, she wouldn't have done that. The tone was a wry tone, Piper andd Phoebe never were able to call for Prue and I think it was a great frustration that she had to see her beloved big sister only as a dog CHARMED AGAIN 2 Piper: Phoebe, I think I found… (Phoebe's not there.) The church. Phoebe? (She looks into Prue's old room to find Phoebe standing there, facing the window. Piper sets down the phone book and walks up to her sister.) What are you doing in here? (Phoebe turns around holding a leather jacket. Phoebe's face is tear stained.) Phoebe: You remember the time I borrowed this from Prue without asking? Piper: Which time? Phoebe: When my boyfriend's cat peed on it. Oh. She got so mad, I thought she was gonna have a stroke. (She whips her nose.) But the funny thing was, she got mad at you because she thought that you were the one that had borrowed it. And you never told her the truth. She never knew it was really me. (Phoebe sobs and sits down on a red sofa. Piper comes over and sits beside her. Piper pulls Phoebe to her and embraces her sister.) I miss her so much. Piper: I know. Me, too. I was wondering when you were gonna let go.Phoebe: I was just… I was trying to. (Piper hands her a tissue.) Thanks. Stay strong, you know, keep it together for you, and… then I put all my energy into trying to save… Paige because I figured only one of us could break down at a time. Otherwise, we'd both be useless. (She sits up.) I'm scared, Piper. I'm really, really scared. She always took the lead. She was… she was our big sister. How are we supposed to go on without her? How are we supposed to go up against the Source without her? (Piper sighs.) Piper: I don't know. But I do know that we can't let the bastard get Paige, either so, no matter what we think or feel, she is our sister. And sisters protect each other. A KNIGHT TO REMEMBER Piper: We didn't always get along with Prue either. Phoebe: Yeah, but that's different. We grew up with her. Eventually we had to get along. I still half expect to see her walk through the door. And last but not least HEARHBREAK CITY Cupid: So tell me, what has not loving gotten you? Phoebe: It's kept me safe. Cupid: Safe from what? Phoebe: From people leaving. Cupid: Your mother? Phoebe: Yeah. Cupid: And your father? |
|
|
|
Post by erikamarie on Nov 12, 2015 3:58:44 GMT -5
I think she was seeing the original future, even though she didn't point out what kind of power she saw
BABY'S FIRST DEMON
Crone: The witches have nothing compared to... This child is powerful beyond your understanding. What I have foreseen, is not to be ignored.
Parasite Demon #2: What? What did you see? What is he?
Crone: He is our end. We'll have nothing more to do with this... being.
"He is our end" could refer to a Wyatt's seizure of power in Underworld
An hungry for power Wyatt'ld be a burning issue even for the evil wolrd
|
|
|
|
Post by erikamarie on Nov 12, 2015 3:40:03 GMT -5
Tim, knock it off, please
You wrote:
I can't help but think that if Rex had made that comment to the later seasons Phoebe, she'd be out of her clothes and halfway to the bedroom before he could finish the sentence.
And this is a very, very sexist remark
|
|
|
|
Post by erikamarie on Nov 11, 2015 5:06:06 GMT -5
A scene in Wicca Envy comes to mind here. When Rex has Phoebe over to his fake apartment, he tells her that he's lined up a job interview for her. When Phoebe asks what she owes Rex, he says that "she has to sleep with him". Phoebe is very upset at this, and then Rex say he was just kidding. Of course, this was the Season One Phoebe. I can't help but think that if Rex had made that comment to the later seasons Phoebe, she'd be out of her clothes and halfway to the bedroom before he could finish the sentence. Sex in exchange for a job, you told it and it's a very sexist remark Phoebe looks for her daughter's father drinking coffee and searching for a premonition, she'll get into real trouble with the Tribunal for having forced the vision of the future If Phoebe had had sex with the all those men, the Tribunal'ld not step in, maybe thef Demons and and the Elders of the Tribunal think that a woman has the right to have sex with all the men she wishes, without very Fifties moralistic judgments |
|
|
|
Post by erikamarie on Nov 11, 2015 4:50:29 GMT -5
It's the fact that Prue was her best friend that makes me think she'd have a hard time deciding. But as you said, I can't see her wanting to raise her boys alone. Now if it was between Prue and Paige or Prue and Phoebe, I think Prue would win out without her even giving it a second thought, the way Phoebe would choose Paige over Prue if she had a choice and I think Paige would choose Piper over Phoebe if she had a choice. Although if it was S4 and Phoebe had a choice of losing Cole and getting Prue back or Prue staying dead, Phoebe wouldn't need a second thought - Prue would stay dead. Here's the bigger question. If Piper was the one who died during All Hell Breaks Loose and the Angel gave Prue the choice of either Piper coming back to life or Andy coming back to life (with Andy having died when he did), who do you think Prue would choose? I truly don't know how to respond to this one myself! I'ld never think that Phoebe would choose Paige over Prue! Phoebe and Paige got along very well but Prue was her big sister for all her life, the sister whose estimate was among the most important achievements for Phoebe Suffering a lot, Piper'ld choose Leo, mostly because she is aware of how her children are in need of their father,enough to think, in Imaginary Friend,of the link between Wyatt and Leo |
|
|
|
Post by erikamarie on Nov 11, 2015 4:35:50 GMT -5
You told that you " believe that those time lines cease to exist when whatever event that created them is undone." The theory of universes coexisting is a scientific theory but we may drop it, following your thinking, this linear time could midify every time a change is assimilated So if, because of the butterfly effect of a change in the past, my husband and I were not any more able to go on holiday in Crete where we conceived the twins, it'ld happen that in the morning I take the girls to kindergarten, then someone switchs something, my last four years are erased so in the afternoon I'ld to to get a drink with my friends, unmindful of being a mom It doesn't make sense |
|
|
|
Post by erikamarie on Nov 10, 2015 10:25:53 GMT -5
So it'ld happen that this morning I took my girls to the kindergarten but, if in the meantime someone changed the timeline, at five I'm going to get a cocktail with my friends no longer aware of the past existance of my daughters? It's unrealistic that there can be a linear time that is continuously switched and destroyed by various changes Even in quantum physics, where the scientists are reflecting on the possible existence of these parallel universes, the mathematical anomalies indicate the presence of a set of universes coexisting For those who want to get bored on the scientific basis of the parallel universes,I point out this link journals.aps.org/prx/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevX.4.041013 |
|
|
|
Post by erikamarie on Nov 10, 2015 10:09:19 GMT -5
This was posted on the IMDB boards. It's to help make sense of Phoebe's transition during the later seasons: I very much agree with this analysis The processes of growth of a person not always comes along in a straight line, there is no guarantee that at 40 years old a person was more wise than at 30 years: the relationship with Cole, added up with Prue’s death, freezes the woman in which Phoebe was turning Phoebe focused her magic on Cole’s salvation, she believed this was her mission and her fate, full of gratitude because he loved her and accepted her as a witch Prue was her anchor, her model, the sister whose estimate counted more than anything, if Prue had been alive, she’ld be able to help Phoebe to understand she didn’t owe to Cole After Cole, Phoebe was able to love only Wyatt, as if her little nephew’ld fill the glacial void left by the loss of her child Phoebe’s loneliness was a protective armor, a wall that she raised between herself and the world, how could she trust again herself after the chaos caused by her love for Cole? She was going for helping Cole when Prue died, she became the Queen of Underworld for protecting Cole and their baby, she failed her sisters and the magic, for Cole Phoebe needed a friend, not a new love; a friend because she knew that Piper’ld not be objectivity, she'ld always and in any case loved and encouraged her Drake is the only one who figures out how to help, how to overcome her barriers, how to give her joy of living and being a witch As to Coop, his role is useless, I imagine that the Elders wanted not to help Phoebe but do a genetic experiment, to have a generation of witches, with strong capacity for empathy and sensitivity to the feelings |
|
|
|
Post by erikamarie on Nov 10, 2015 10:03:30 GMT -5
I doubt seriously
After Jason, Phoebe only had a few short relationships: Miles Drake, Dex
Her speedy dating was a search for the right premonition, a stupid idea
But even if she was having sex with half of the city, she was perfectly free to do it, this doesn't mean that she was a woman for sale
A very sexist observation
|
|
|
|
Post by erikamarie on Nov 9, 2015 12:17:07 GMT -5
So you don't believe in the existence of different coexisting timelines but in an only single, alterable timeline
|
|
|
|
Post by erikamarie on Nov 9, 2015 11:14:45 GMT -5
Sol, Erikamarie, I know that English is not your first language, but I really have no idea what you two are talking about here. I'll try to clarify what I think, but maybe you'ldn't understand even if I wrote in German, alternate timelines are always confuding I agree with Sol: only Tempus is able to reset the time and even for Tempus is a complex thing, as it was told in All Hell Breaks Loose: Cole: I may have a solution. Tempus's power. The Source: And still weakened from when he last turned back time. Doing so again will destroy him. Tempus rewinds the time up to before the action, so that time never was: only one time In Charmed there are different timelines, or alternate timeline originated by the alteration of one or more events in the past I call the timeline of Morality Bites Reality One_ Recapping: Prue doesn't go beyond the grief for Andy's death, she drifts apart from magic and her sisters and turns into a loner careerist Prue is shocked by the vision of her future, she realizes how essential is their link for magic and for her and her sisters's life:this awareness changes the whole timeline, because the bond between the sisters gets stronger and therefore the Power of Three grows What happened during All Hell Breaks Loose doesn't count because of Tempus who resets the day Reality Two: maybe we'ld talk of it in a different thread but there is also an alternate timeline in which Phoebe didn't marry Cole, Cole became the Source and the Charmed Ones had to vanquish him It was only touched on but it took place Reality Three; Chris's timeline and I was talking of it Chris never knew who was after Wyatt so he naïvely believed he was a powerful demon: he didn't know because no one knew, nor Leo or the sisters, about what had happened The new timeline starts when Leo and the sisters find out about Gideon's treason and Leo has to witness helplessly Chris's death: this is a new event compared to the original timeline, that creates a new reality In this new timeline, Leo was torn apart by the distress for his sons's safety and the bitter disappointment caused by the Elders and the Avatars had often an eye for desperate magic being But if it had not been totally nutcase, Leo would never listen to the Avatars This is the reason because I think that in Chris timeline Leo didn't become an Avatar, the Charmed Ones never changed the world or met Zankou In that timeline, which is still existing, they'll be killed in 2018 |
|
|
|
Post by erikamarie on Nov 6, 2015 5:44:50 GMT -5
Sad but intersting to understand how it's essentil the link between the sisters: Phoebe has to earn Prue's respect and trust to be able to have confidence in herself
Witout the certainty of Prue's love, Phoebe'll be always drifting
|
|
|
|
Post by erikamarie on Nov 6, 2015 5:36:55 GMT -5
Maybe in the new future Wyatt wont' be evil but this new future has a good amount of troblue that in the original timeline perhaps never existed
Leo and the sisters never knew who was after Wyatt, sisters' relationship with the Elders didn't go wrong too much. above all, Leo didn't freak out at them
Without Leo's bewilderment, it's impossible to think that the Avatars have tried to contact him as they did with Cole: no Avatars so no Kyle - a good thing- and no Zankou - a bad thing
|
|
|
|
Post by erikamarie on Nov 6, 2015 5:23:43 GMT -5
Between Prue and Phoebe there were five years of difference, between Wyatt and Chris less than two years: magical children or not, always will be a strong bond when they live together the same phases of growth
About the bond, in Kill Bill vol 2, the two children appear as they had an empathic link
|
|
