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Post by Chrisaholic on Dec 31, 2015 19:10:50 GMT -5
Before I'd recommend, I would suggest to take a look at the first season and let the watcher then decide if he's interested in or not. That's what I do nowadays. If it's good, go on; if not, let it be.
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Post by Darkhorse Christian on Dec 31, 2015 20:31:53 GMT -5
Before I'd recommend, I would suggest to take a look at the first season and let the watcher then decide if he's interested in or not. That's what I do nowadays. If it's good, go on; if not, let it be. Good plan. Taking that into account, I'd first recommend season 1, then if they like that, 2-4 and also 7's kinda okay too. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2015 20:38:17 GMT -5
I would recommend Seasons One through Four. That was Charmed at its best, IMO. This answer kind of proves my point, Tim.  While most people watching the show for the first time probably will prefer the earlier seasons, you have to let them make that decision for themselves. It doesn't look that good to tell them to automatically write off half the show before they've even seen it. I like Jana's answer: "take a look at the first season and let the watcher then decide if he's interested in or not." |
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Post by erikamarie on Jan 4, 2016 4:26:33 GMT -5
So, this is a thread in which I would like to discuss the fandom's current relationship with the show, or rather the fandom's current emotional well-fare independent of the show (that sounds really weird and I don't know if it's possible, but I don't know how else to formulate it). Right now, I feel like the fandom is in a currently unhealthy place: it's not just negative, it's unhealthy. People are complaining/arguing (and I'll admit I'm one of them), about Cole and the Source, about the reboot, about when the show should have been cancelled... we complain about the show, and yet we keep coming back here (are we a bunch of masochists, I wonder?). I can't think of it ever being this bad (I feel like the comics have made it worse, in the sense of rehashing certain things that fans hate, such as Cole and Phoebe). For me, I'm currently rewatching Season 4, and despite its flaws I'm enjoying myself. I'm not sure whether I'll still feel the same way once I've reached Season 5, but we'll see. Charmed has a lot of flaws, for me the latter seasons were really bad (despite my love of Billie), and yet it's still one of my favorite shows, and I still enjoy watching it. For now.
So, I want your opinions about the fandom's current sate of being, and your relationship with the show? Does it change anything about how you enjoy the show or not? I'm sure a psychiatrist would have a field day with the fandom and its relationship with the show, but I'm no psychiatrist. I don't have the time nor the desire to look at all the TV series of which here many are speaking, as Arrow or Pretty Little Liars or other of which I never heard of I admit that I don't even care about all the events that many think are important, conventions, news of the actors etc. As I told, I write only here and on the Lost forum, where there is much talk of the characters yet to be understood, of situations yet to be deciphered, no one loses time to cheer for this actor or that the writer or to proclaim how much they'ld be best writers In Destined too, I can't remember having ever seen the acrimony and acidity that often invest the Cafe, as if there was personal score settling,against whom and why I am not able to understand I like Charmed, in my country it's regularly revived and every time has good audience: the basic story is nice, the characters interesting, the dialogues are lively, often out of the banality I enjoy watching the episodes, not all, but it doesn't exist a serie of which I'ld watch again all the episodes A lot of flaws are normal in a TV series that exceed the 3/4 seasons, Supernatural is an example, after the fifth season has become, IMO, a lot boredom, I still like the brothers but never again I'ld get a look at the seasons from the sixth onwards Nimue, I'm afraid you are too swayed by extreme views,so negative views which often lead me to wonder why someone would bother to write about what can't stand!? Enjoy Charmed without problems, there is no need to justify for your own passions |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2016 20:51:54 GMT -5
This comment, right here: Is a perfect example of Moff's Law. What is Moff's Law, you ask? From TV Tropes: Look, Charmed was a pretty flawed show. Sometimes it was intentional, other times it wasn't, but either way, the flaws are still there. A lot of us have analyzed and critiqued those flaws, and that is completely okay. All works of art, whether highbrow or lowbrow, should be analyzed, and if anything, you're doing disservice to the work itself by simply dismissing it as "mindless entertainment" and unworthy of a critical eye. And, you're certainly doing disservice to other people and their time by telling them to shut up and turn their brains off. While a lot of Charmed analysis has an unfortunate tendency to accentuate the negative, it's the negativity that's the problem, not the analysis itself. It's a GOOD thing that so many fans think critically about the show and don't follow ErikaMarie's lead by shutting their brains off and treating it like worthless fluff. It means that most of us really are smarter than TV networks give us credit for. |
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Post by West on Jan 4, 2016 22:24:08 GMT -5
Sometimes I think the longer a show goes on for, they will try and come up with new things and it goes so far from what they once were. I know shows like Charmed, Buffy, Supernatural etc. are more a variety they can do drama, action, comedy or horror. That the show isn't the same each week when you compare it to say The Walking Dead or Game of Thrones.
But Charmed just started throwing so many things at us in the later seasons with magical creatures, magical schools and Greek mythology. I can see why Kern did it, because he wanted to try new ideas. But sometimes it can backfire, and they should of just kept things in tone to season 1 -4. Even season 3 had magical creatures with Fairies, and we had comedy episodes like Sin Fransisco, which worked.
Personally the show was better off when it was more mysterious. Like magical beings were more unknown, then when come to season 5 and its known that everyone can see Fairies and magical creatures are more out in the open. I even liked it when The Source and Elders were not shown or were hooded. Unless you have a brilliant actor, then it can just not work out in the end.
But at the end of the day, we are all Charmed fans. We all have our likes and dislikes. But I think the show would of been better off ending sooner and being remembered better, but what can you do. I am curious if Supernatural will hold up well in 10 years, once it ended. It too has had its fair share of dislikes and likes.
Buffy and X-Files have held up well. And sadly Charmed hasn't, which sucks. I kinda hope there is a reboot one day, it will spark the fandom and interest may come back into the fanbase.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 1:24:06 GMT -5
Charmed's only chance of a real comeback will be a reboot. The later seasons ruined the show for many fans (those seasons are the Jar Jar Binks of Charmed).
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Jan 5, 2016 4:20:21 GMT -5
Another good thing about fans being critical and analytical is that although you can't change what's happened in the show already or the way a character was handled you can do so via fan fiction if you see people comment on things you agree on say and can put them into stories making you and them appreciate the show more and how you think it would've been handled better concerning certain mythologies and consistency with some of them introduced earlier like fairies only been seen by children, romantic interests having purposes there and not seen or used as lapdogs, the way Piper, Phoebe and Chris were handled later years, having humans not seeing ghosts without a spell or potion and making the red hooded guy be the Source who's never unmasked same with the Elders and everything.
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Post by erikamarie on Jan 5, 2016 5:15:48 GMT -5
This comment, right here: Is a perfect example of Moff's Law. What is Moff's Law, you ask? From TV Tropes: Look, Charmed was a pretty flawed show. Sometimes it was intentional, other times it wasn't, but either way, the flaws are still there. A lot of us have analyzed and critiqued those flaws, and that is completely okay. All works of art, whether highbrow or lowbrow, should be analyzed, and if anything, you're doing disservice to the work itself by simply dismissing it as "mindless entertainment" and unworthy of a critical eye. And, you're certainly doing disservice to other people and their time by telling them to shut up and turn their brains off. While a lot of Charmed analysis has an unfortunate tendency to accentuate the negative, it's the negativity that's the problem, not the analysis itself. It's a GOOD thing that so many fans think critically about the show and don't follow ErikaMarie's lead by shutting their brains off and treating it like worthless fluff. It means that most of us really are smarter than TV networks give us credit for. Erika Marie is not saying not to strain our brain on fundamental issues as Brad Kern’ existence of or long-standing issues such as the hem of skirts of the sisters: every efforts their brains about what they want Erika Marie was telling Nimue not to wonder about problems because she likes Charmed: she likes, I like, so many people like to watch Charmed and no one'ld have feelings of guilt Guilt towards whom? Towards a Wiki as TV Tropes I'm sorry, I'll be a snob, but I find TV Tropes absolutely trivial Marcel Reich-Ranick said that one of the most destructive things linked to the TV series was the birth of the " professional destroyer " the modern version of "those who can do, those who can not critique" Talking in a forum of the beloved series is fun but it's fun it's not the birth of a new, fundamental phenomenology In the visual arts there are high moments, no one denies, Camille Paglia, among the great images of the Contemporary, reports the battle between Obi Wan and Anakin Some series – surely not Charmed, not Buffy, not Supernatural- are products well shot and well-written as the first season of Lost, very cinematic, with episodes written in a commendable way, shot and edited extraordinarily well. And I highlight the first season, because the others have, like all series, also showy flaws Just because the TV series are TV series, linked to market laws, unpredictable events - the death of an author, the leak of an actor - have different story from the movie and, quoting the Heinrich Boll Stiftung, approach the Feuilleton, the nineteenth Century novel, as the Comedie Humaine or the Three Musketeers, which, incidentally, is among the worst writing novels in literary history The television series of high quality, such as Six Feet Under, The Sopranos, Mad Men and The Wire - I only know Mad Men, mine is a quote from HBS - produces works of surprising complexity, variety and generosity narrative, and thematic human, and at the same time of good popularity, just like the popular novels This is to emphasize that I have a positive assessment on the TV series, I understand the bond that is created and the need to extend that bond by talking, whether it is to comment on an episode of great impact as Blink - doctor WHO- or a textbook literature character as the Rust of the first season of True Detective Loving the Socratic approach, I believe in discussion that generates ideas The criticism exacerbated, vitriolic, over the top, indicates that the link is missing, there is only a taste for controversy and scorn and this destabilizes a site where fans have every right to analyze and criticize, while respecting their passions PS: Tv Tropes is not the gospel |
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Post by erikamarie on Jan 5, 2016 5:26:06 GMT -5
Another good thing about fans being critical and analytical is that although you can't change what's happened in the show already or the way a character was handled you can do so via fan fiction if you see people comment on things you agree on say and can put them into stories making you and them appreciate the show more and how you think it would've been handled better concerning certain mythologies and consistency with some of them introduced earlier like fairies only been seen by children, romantic interests having purposes there and not seen or used as lapdogs, the way Piper, Phoebe and Chris were handled later years, having humans not seeing ghosts without a spell or potion and making the red hooded guy be the Source who's never unmasked same with the Elders and everything. I agree, for this reason I like the characters analysis, I realize that often each of us perceives differently a character: for example, I like Chris but I don't think of him as a romantic hero I am fully convinced that Charmed is like a mine for people writing fan fic because it's full of ideas never developed, doable plots, characters with a lot of potential abandoned or misused In Charmed the mystery was one of the essential components: remove the hood from the Source and the Elders was a serious mistake |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 12:13:08 GMT -5
Sometimes I think the longer a show goes on for, they will try and come up with new things and it goes so far from what they once were. I know shows like Charmed, Buffy, Supernatural etc. are more a variety they can do drama, action, comedy or horror. That the show isn't the same each week when you compare it to say The Walking Dead or Game of Thrones. But Charmed just started throwing so many things at us in the later seasons with magical creatures, magical schools and Greek mythology. I can see why Kern did it, because he wanted to try new ideas. But sometimes it can backfire, and they should of just kept things in tone to season 1 -4. Even season 3 had magical creatures with Fairies, and we had comedy episodes like Sin Fransisco, which worked. Personally the show was better off when it was more mysterious. Like magical beings were more unknown, then when come to season 5 and its known that everyone can see Fairies and magical creatures are more out in the open. I even liked it when The Source and Elders were not shown or were hooded. Unless you have a brilliant actor, then it can just not work out in the end. But at the end of the day, we are all Charmed fans. We all have our likes and dislikes. But I think the show would of been better off ending sooner and being remembered better, but what can you do. I am curious if Supernatural will hold up well in 10 years, once it ended. It too has had its fair share of dislikes and likes. Buffy and X-Files have held up well. And sadly Charmed hasn't, which sucks. I kinda hope there is a reboot one day, it will spark the fandom and interest may come back into the fanbase. This is very true. There are way too many shows that were ruined simply by overstaying their welcome. Most stories have a clear, defined ending point, but TV shows aren't renewed based on whether or not the story's finished. They're renewed based on how much ratings they get. So, you see a ton of TV shows that are either cut way too short or dragged out long past their expiration date, all simply because of ratings. Again, I must site PLL as a non-Charmed example. The show was originally planned to end at Season 4, but since it continued to get good ratings and ABC Family was struggling to launch new hits, the show just kept on getting renewed over and over again. This meant that the core mystery storyline had to be stretched out further and further and stuffed with more and more filler, which badly hurt the quality of the show after Season 3. Charmed's only chance of a real comeback will be a reboot. The later seasons ruined the show for many fans (those seasons are the Jar Jar Binks of Charmed). Funny you mention Jar Jar Binks, because I've come to realize that Charmed fandom actually has a lot in common with Star Wars fandom. Like Charmed's early seasons, the first trilogy of Star Wars movies are something that's not necessarily of the highest quality, but are widely beloved by the fans and are held up as the "true" Star Wars. Similarly, the prequels are akin to Charmed's later seasons in that they were mostly seen as terribly written, inconsistent, and overly pandering to kids/tweens. Both are divisive and hated by their respective fandoms, widely considered to be a blight on the canon. Jar Jar Binks is to Star Wars fans what Billie Jenkins is to Charmed fans, the ultimate scapegoat for "everything that went wrong." And, it's very common to see Star Wars fans trash George Lucas in the same way that Charmed fans trash Brad Kern/Spelling/The WB. Go to any Star Wars site, and you'll see a million threads about "Why Lucas Ruined Star Wars" and "Why the Prequels Suck." It says a lot that most people can't even talk about the newest movie without slipping in a "it's better than the prequels." You also see several people clamoring for Disney to de-canonize/reboot the prequels, just as many Charmed fans to want to see the show rebooted to get rid of the later seasons. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 12:36:52 GMT -5
There should be a new rule in Hollywood. When a creator/producer/star of a show decides it's time for the show to end, it ends. The network should have no say in the matter.
In 1998, when Jerry Seinfeld decided to end his sitcom, NBC tried to stop it. They offered him more money, but Jerry held firm and the show ended.
More recently, NBC wanted 30 Rock to continue, but both Tina Fey and Lorne Michaels said no, they said that seven seasons was enough, end of discussion.
Of course, Jerry Seinfeld and Tina Fey had creative control over their respective shows, so when they decided to call it a day, there was nothing anyone at NBC could do about it.
One has to wonder, had Alyssa, Holly, and Rose had creative control over Charmed, would they have called it a day after, say, Season Four. I know that Rose would have been glad for the show to have ended then (she only thought she'd be there for one year, two tops).
I guess we'll never know, but I feel that most fans, knowing what was to come, would have been glad to see Charmed end while it was still respected by the fans.
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Post by Darkhorse Christian on Jan 5, 2016 14:54:02 GMT -5
Charmed's only chance of a real comeback will be a reboot. The later seasons ruined the show for many fans (those seasons are the Jar Jar Binks of Charmed). Should've never backed down on him being a Sith Lord, George. I am fully convinced that Charmed is like a mine for people writing fan fic because it's full of ideas never developed, doable plots, characters with a lot of potential abandoned or misused That to me is probably the reason the criticism here at the Cafe, as disturbingly prevalent as it seems at times, isn't unhealthy to me. Because it's not just people saying "You suck," it's people saying "Here's what went wrong and here's what could've been done," imagining how the franchise could've stayed above water, having a discussion, coming up with ideas, ACTUALLY THINKING. And if you look at where a lot of the criticisms and even some of the disagreements amongst the criticisms are coming from, it's possible for someone to come in and in turn analyze us and what we're saying outside the context of the Charmed brand and come away with some new insight about trends in fan perspective, creative media, pop culture, etc. I'm not saying it'll lead to some breakthrough moment in society or something, but it's good to encourage free thought even if it's on such a transient level as picking through some television show that aired around the turn of the millennium and fizzled out over time. |
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Post by erikamarie on Jan 5, 2016 15:17:16 GMT -5
I agree, it's a good think when fans talk about their ideas, analyse and discuss the different points of view, it's strange when a fan thinks she'ld have to feel ashamed because she enjoys watching Charmed
I like some ideas that are being discussed but that does not mean it would work or that the most of the audience'ld have liked it
It's part of the fun of a forum reviewing the episodes, chatting about different choices and theory and this doen't mean that we cannot re-watch with pleasure those same episodes, despite all their flaws
I's rather boring instead to repeat endlessly the same complaints
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 18:30:41 GMT -5
To me, most of the problems of the later seasons COULD have been avoided had they had a Continuity Adviser on staff. The job of this person would be to look at scripts and point out parts that clearly contradicted already established continuity. For example, a Continuity Adviser would have had a field day with Witchstock, an episode that stomped all over continuity so much, it was not funny. Why they didn't have such a person on staff baffles me. Heck, I would have done it, but nobody called me  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 19:03:52 GMT -5
Another thing I'd just like to add to my comments. Believe it or not, I do think this fandom is more balanced than others. Yes, we criticize the later seasons a lot, but we also tend to champion the early ones. I've seen some truly toxic fandoms and honestly, Charmed doesn't come close. There are fandoms so aggressive and joyless that I'd never want anything to do with them. There are also fandoms that refuse to accept any criticism whatsoever and they can be just as bad. Overall, I honestly think we do alright.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 19:26:56 GMT -5
That to me is probably the reason the criticism here at the Cafe, as disturbingly prevalent as it seems at times, isn't unhealthy to me. Because it's not just people saying "You suck," it's people saying "Here's what went wrong and here's what could've been done," imagining how the franchise could've stayed above water, having a discussion, coming up with ideas, ACTUALLY THINKING. And if you look at where a lot of the criticisms and even some of the disagreements amongst the criticisms are coming from, it's possible for someone to come in and in turn analyze us and what we're saying outside the context of the Charmed brand and come away with some new insight about trends in fan perspective, creative media, pop culture, etc. I'm not saying it'll lead to some breakthrough moment in society or something, but it's good to encourage free thought even if it's on such a transient level as picking through some television show that aired around the turn of the millennium and fizzled out over time. That's how I kind of feel, too. There's A LOT of negativity here, no question, but there's also a lot of good critical thinking and analysis. People aren't just shutting their brains off and mindlessly watching the show without any real thought. That is a GOOD thing, and it needs to continue. |
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Post by West on Jan 6, 2016 3:38:48 GMT -5
Another thing I'd just like to add to my comments. Believe it or not, I do think this fandom is more balanced than others. Yes, we criticize the later seasons a lot, but we also tend to champion the early ones. I've seen some truly toxic fandoms and honestly, Charmed doesn't come close. There are fandoms so aggressive and joyless that I'd never want anything to do with them. There are also fandoms that refuse to accept any criticism whatsoever and they can be just as bad. Overall, I honestly think we do alright. You are correct there are fandoms are there way worse than Charmed. I know Gossip Girl and Pretty Little Liars are big one I know alot of my friends who watched it say had the worst fans ever. I myself have fandoms I've left because it was just so aggressive to even talk to people online about it. I must admit the charmed community, even if its small. I still find myself invested, and there are alot of good fans out there and on here. Where we do have things balanced and there isn't all the drama that comes with some fandoms. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 0:35:26 GMT -5
Charmed Online Fandom is pretty easy going in comparison to some other fandoms I've seen online.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2016 14:44:16 GMT -5
This is a little off-topic, but do you think that fandom opinions of the show have changed over time?
For example, Chris and Wyatt used to be very popular and well-liked characters. There was an entire spinoff movement dedicated to them, and a large number of fans felt like they had saved the later seasons. A lot of people even outright hated Seasons 7 and 8 simply because of how the Chris and Wyatt story had been dropped without any real resolution.
Nowadays, though, you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who's a huge fan of the characters. The spinoff movement is dead and buried, every Charmed Sons fansite having since closed. You're much more likely to find criticism of the characters than praise, with many even claiming that Chris nearly killed the show in Season 6.
Similar seems to happened to Piper and Cole. Both were also hugely popular and well-loved among the fandom 10 years ago, but nowadays it seems like you see more criticism for them than praise (with many even going so far as to claim that Cole was the first time the show Jumped the Shark).
On the flip-side, fandom opinion seems to have softened on Billie over the years. While she's still widely regarded as a Mary Sue, she's seen much more as a victim of bad writing and poor casting nowadays, rather than the Source of All Evil that the fans regarded her as back when Season 8 was airing. Nowadays, it's the poor characterization of the sisters (especially Piper and Phoebe) that people hate the most about Season 8.
What do you think? Did you feel differently about the show back when it was still airing? Have later rewatches changed your opinions?
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While most people watching the show for the first time probably will prefer the earlier seasons, you have to let them make that decision for themselves. It doesn't look that good to tell them to automatically write off half the show before they've even seen it.
