The fandom's unhealthy emotional state

[Nimue]

So, this is a thread in which I would like to discuss the fandom's current relationship with the show, or rather the fandom's current emotional well-fare independent of the show (that sounds really weird and I don't know if it's possible, but I don't know how else to formulate it). Right now, I feel like the fandom is in a currently unhealthy place: it's not just negative, it's unhealthy. People are complaining/arguing (and I'll admit I'm one of them), about Cole and the Source, about the reboot, about when the show should have been cancelled... we complain about the show, and yet we keep coming back here (are we a bunch of masochists, I wonder?). I can't think of it ever being this bad (I feel like the comics have made it worse, in the sense of rehashing certain things that fans hate, such as Cole and Phoebe). For me, I'm currently rewatching Season 4, and despite its flaws I'm enjoying myself. I'm not sure whether I'll still feel the same way once I've reached Season 5, but we'll see. Charmed has a lot of flaws, for me the latter seasons were really bad (despite my love of Billie), and yet it's still one of my favorite shows, and I still enjoy watching it. For now. 

So, I want your opinions about the fandom's current sate of being, and your relationship with the show? Does it change anything about how you enjoy the show or not? I'm sure a psychiatrist would have a field day with the fandom and its relationship with the show, but I'm no psychiatrist. 

[thepowerofnicki]

I understand! Heck I do the same. It is like being an old married couple. I was watching a Christmas Day marathon of Season 8 on the television and I was shocked at how I was just enjoying myself. I did not care, and of all seasons too!

[Deleted]

I just think we're very critical. And I like that. Unlike the fans of another show similar to Charmed where the fans do nothing but praise it and all it's faults despite it being just as inconsistent and the character's morals being just as questionable.

There are certain aspects many of us like about the later seasons. For instance, I think the entire set up of a fourth unknown sister is stupid as hell but I liked Paige more than I like Piper and Phoebe post season 4. I've never disliked Billie. I would've liked Chris had it not been for the inconsistent writing regarding who he was and whether he was good or evil.

I guess we could tone down the negativity a bit but what can ya do. Charmed ended ten years ago, it's writers have never been involved with the fandom, and the actors/actresses just started attending conventions a few years ago. Had we gotten some insight about the behind the scenes goings on, half the stuff we complain about could be forgiven. All we have is he said she said.

[charmedagain4]

I feel that we honestly love Charmed enough to know that the show has its mistakes and inconsistencies. Right now, I know that many fans are angry at Pat for killing Cole off again, not bringing Cole and Phoebe back together and keeping boring Coop, making it seem like Prue is going to die again, and making Prue seem like the Big Bad. Those are a few of the major arguments going on in the Charmed fandom. And I think these problems could be solved by a mini series or movie because the comics aren't canon, right?

We are very critical when it comes to Charmed because we love it so much. I know I can admit that Brad Kern shouldn't have made Cole evil again because it took away from his and Phoebe's true love for each other which led many fans to start disliking their relationship more. But I guess we can't correct some of Kern's mistakes like Paul did.

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2015 16:23:26 GMT -5 charmedagain4 said:

I feel that we honestly love Charmed enough to know that the show has its mistakes and inconsistencies. Right now, I know that many fans are angry at Pat for killing Cole off again, not bringing Cole and Phoebe back together and keeping boring Coop, making it seem like Prue is going to die again, and making Prue seem like the Big Bad. Those are a few of the major arguments going on in the Charmed fandom. And I think these problems could be solved by a mini series or movie because the comics aren't canon, right?

We are very critical when it comes to Charmed because we love it so much. I know I can admit that Brad Kern shouldn't have made Cole evil again because it took away from his and Phoebe's true love for each other which led many fans to start disliking their relationship more. But I guess we can't correct some of Kern's mistakes like Paul did.

I think the comics are canon so as long as they decide not to do a Charmed reunion special down the line. I'm basing this off Joss Whedon who said he'd do away with anything that happened in the Buffy comics if he and the cast decided to come back for a movie or mini-series. Neither is likely to happen so I think the comics is all we've got until a reboot.

[lilchi7212]

Well I believe originally I think Zenoscope didn't plan for season 10 comic book series that's why it took so long for 10 to come to past. Apparently I guess the person who does the charmed comic fan site didn't know this at the time.

Some of the things we see this season were from a season 10 wishlist that was on charmed comic fan that people wanted to see I can tell.

[Deleted]

I guess we can't correct some of Kern's mistakes like Paul did.

And then came Pat Shand... 

I'm basing this off Joss Whedon who said he'd do away with anything that happened in the Buffy comics if he and the cast decided to come back for a movie or mini-series. Neither is likely to happen so I think the comics is all we've got until a reboot.

Joss Whedon is the reason why the Buffy comics are considered canon.  He's personally involved with them (they list him as Executive Producer).  However, that's the exception, not the rule.

Paul Ruditis said that, as far as the Charmed comics go, it's entirely up to the readers to accept or reject the comics as canon.  I'm sure a lot here accept Paul's comics as canon, but reject Shand's. 

[Deleted]

Interesting topic.

There's a lot of reasons why the fandom is the way it is.  The fact that Charmed is mostly a declining fandom certainly doesn't help matters.  We're not gaining any new members, no new sites are popping up, and the show has been all but forgotten in the mainstream.  The odds of there being any new Charmed canon are slim-to-none.  It's hard to maintain a healthy, thriving fandom under those circumstances.

But, the bashing and complaining had been going on for a long time, since even before the show ended.  Anyone who's browsed through TWOP (RIP) and even the older threads at this site knows what I'm talking about.

I think the later seasons may have tainted the entire show for a lot of people, so they find it hard to enjoy even the earlier seasons without thinking about what will happen later on.  A certain member here who gave up the show in disgust after re-watching a certain Season 3 episode and constantly whines about how Seasons 4-8 are an "alternate universe" particularly comes to mind here.

And, it's also possible that many of us have internalized the rather scathing critical response that Charmed received all throughout its lifetime.  Let's face it, Charmed was rarely nominated for awards, let alone won any, and it was frequently trashed for being a cheap, fanservicey Buffy knockoff.  Outside of the immediate fandom, the show was always considered light entertainment, at best.  The fact that the later seasons seemed to prove the critics right didn't help matters.

And, it's hard not to ignore the show's own traumatic, fraught history, whether it be Connie's ousting, the Shannen/Alyssa/Kern drama, the WB's handling of the show, and everything about Season 8.  No doubt that the behind-the-scenes drama has negatively impacted how people view the show itself, with many storylines being outright impossible to discuss or look at outside of that context.

Maybe these are all reasons why I really wanted a reboot at the end of the day.  It would've been a way for the fandom to start fresh and get away from the negativity of the old show.

[adzpower]

I think their are pros and cons when it comes to how critical we are of the show, on one hand, we aren't delusional, we are aware of the flaws and we don't try to mask them. But sometimes I do feel there is more empthasis on how bad the show got and not about how good it was. I rarely see threads or topics about the positive side of Charmed, I think there is good stuff to be found even in the worst seasons.
There isn't a whole lot of positive light shed on the show mainly I think because it's never been a show that fans could really interact with, like someone else mentioned the actors only started meeting fans and doing conventions recently, and not even all of them do it. The producers of the show never talk about their time on the show, we never get any kind of material about the show bar the comics which aren't even canon.
It's an exhausting fandom to be a part of because to me at least it feels like I'm not getting anything back from it. Even the seasons I enjoyed as a kid are marred now by rewatches, more critical viewing and a harsher marking system when it comes to ranking episodes. When I was younger I didn't care about shoddy writing, or plot holes, or lack of budget, I just enjoyed watching my favorite show on TV and for 40 minutes I could get lost in a world I adored.
But now? Not so much. I still love the show, but I find myself criticising things that I never did before, I guess maybe I'm a little envious looking at other fandoms and how they've thrived since their respective franchises ended, but Charmed has been left to the side, though I've heard it's very popular on netflix?

[Esmeralda]

Dec 27, 2015 19:30:34 GMT -5 adzpower said:

I think their are pros and cons when it comes to how critical we are of the show, on one hand, we aren't delusional, we are aware of the flaws and we don't try to mask them. But sometimes I do feel there is more empthasis on how bad the show got and not about how good it was. I rarely see threads or topics about the positive side of Charmed, I think there is good stuff to be found even in the worst seasons.
There isn't a whole lot of positive light shed on the show mainly I think because it's never been a show that fans could really interact with, like someone else mentioned the actors only started meeting fans and doing conventions recently, and not even all of them do it. The producers of the show never talk about their time on the show, we never get any kind of material about the show bar the comics which aren't even canon.
It's an exhausting fandom to be a part of because to me at least it feels like I'm not getting anything back from it. Even the seasons I enjoyed as a kid are marred now by rewatches, more critical viewing and a harsher marking system when it comes to ranking episodes. When I was younger I didn't care about shoddy writing, or plot holes, or lack of budget, I just enjoyed watching my favorite show on TV and for 40 minutes I could get lost in a world I adored.
But now? Not so much. I still love the show, but I find myself criticising things that I never did before, I guess maybe I'm a little envious looking at other fandoms and how they've thrived since their respective franchises ended, but Charmed has been left to the side, though I've heard it's very popular on netflix?

That's why I'm so grateful to the show for all the friends I've made by being their fan and all of the wonderful fanfics I've read. I keep saying I'm glad for all of the show's screwups because it was trying to fix those screwups that have been the basis for the best stories.

For me, the fandom might be unhealthy and emotional, but although my own relationship with it is very emotional (as soon as it isn't, I'd give up on it), the only way it might be unhealthy is the fact that I probably obsess on it a bit too much.

[Esmeralda]

Dec 27, 2015 18:08:12 GMT -5 lilchi7212 said:

Well I believe originally I think Zenoscope didn't plan for season 10 comic book series that's why it took so long for 10 to come to past. Apparently I guess the person who does the charmed comic fan site didn't know this at the time.

Some of the things we see this season were from a season 10 wishlist that was on charmed comic fan that people wanted to see I can tell.

That's the hilarious thing. It's just like when the fans said they wanted to find out more about the magical community and we got fairies and trolls and leprechauns, oh, my!

It's also just like all of us fans being so excited about Season Eight - and we all know what happened...

It's the infamous "Beware of what you wish for - you might get it!"

It keeps showing why I'll stick with fanfics! Then I can get what I want without screwing it up - even if a number of other fans will think I did!

[Esmeralda]

Dec 27, 2015 16:36:24 GMT -5 @blacklighter said:

Dec 27, 2015 16:23:26 GMT -5 charmedagain4 said:

I feel that we honestly love Charmed enough to know that the show has its mistakes and inconsistencies. Right now, I know that many fans are angry at Pat for killing Cole off again, not bringing Cole and Phoebe back together and keeping boring Coop, making it seem like Prue is going to die again, and making Prue seem like the Big Bad. Those are a few of the major arguments going on in the Charmed fandom. And I think these problems could be solved by a mini series or movie because the comics aren't canon, right?

We are very critical when it comes to Charmed because we love it so much. I know I can admit that Brad Kern shouldn't have made Cole evil again because it took away from his and Phoebe's true love for each other which led many fans to start disliking their relationship more. But I guess we can't correct some of Kern's mistakes like Paul did.

I think the comics are canon so as long as they decide not to do a Charmed reunion special down the line. I'm basing this off Joss Whedon who said he'd do away with anything that happened in the Buffy comics if he and the cast decided to come back for a movie or mini-series. Neither is likely to happen so I think the comics is all we've got until a reboot.

Joss Whedon may think so - CBS may think so - but the comics are never official canon - just official fanon that often becomes a lot of fans' head canon, because a lot of fans can't get a hold of them.

I see S9 as an alternate universe spin-off to the alternate universe spin-off that is known as S4-S8 (The Perils of Poor, Poor Pitiful Piper aka PhoeME and Her Fantasy Men aka Two Witches Plus One Living Whitelighter Equals The Power of Three?), that I enjoy *more* than that one, with S10 as an alternate universe spin-off to that one, which I enjoy less. It's the only thing that makes the whole thing make sense to me.

I count them as alternate universes for the same reason as I do S4-8 - the names of the characters might be the same, but their characters are no where near the same. I love the sisters in S1-3, don't like them in S4-8, love them in S9 and are bored with them in S10.

[Deleted]

no new sites are popping up

This seems to be the ONLY Charmed message board that still gets regular activity.  Just look at how many others are dead, or are in "Maintenance Mode" (which means they're dead as well).  Charmed has no presence in more modern Social Networking sites.  Clear indications of a fandom that's slowly dying.

The odds of there being any new Charmed canon are slim-to-none.

As I have said, the comics are as close as we'll ever get to that.  And now that Pat Shand is determined to do Brad Kern one better and destroy that medium, well, sucks to be a Charmed fan these days. 

I think the later seasons may have tainted the entire show for a lot of people, so they find it hard to enjoy even the earlier seasons without thinking about what will happen later on.

Yeah, that's true.  Mind you, I'm not one of those people, probably because I spun off two characters from Season One.  Since Rex and Hannah only appeared in S1, they were thus unaffected by the taint of the later seasons.

Charmed was rarely nominated for awards, let alone won any, and it was frequently trashed for being a cheap, fanservicey Buffy knockoff

Charmed never did manage to get out of Buffy's shadow, it seemed.

And, it's hard not to ignore the show's own traumatic, fraught history, whether it be Connie's ousting, the Shannen/Alyssa/Kern drama, the WB's handling of the show, and everything about Season 8. No doubt that the behind-the-scenes drama has negatively impacted how people view the show itself, with many storylines being outright impossible to discuss or look at outside of that context.

TV Tropes calls this a Troubled Production (Rosanne and Grace Under Fire also fall under this category).  The behind the scenes hi-jinks eclipsed the show itself.

Maybe these are all reasons why I really wanted a reboot at the end of the day. It would've been a way for the fandom to start fresh and get away from the negativity of the old show.

Wipe the slate clean, start again, and make sure the mistakes that ruined the old show were avoided.  Too bad that didn't happen, the reboot could have given Charmed fandom a shot in the arm and really brought it back to life.  It would be nice to see threads about that, and not the 156th Cole/Source thread.

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2015 19:30:34 GMT -5 adzpower said:

I think their are pros and cons when it comes to how critical we are of the show, on one hand, we aren't delusional, we are aware of the flaws and we don't try to mask them. But sometimes I do feel there is more empthasis on how bad the show got and not about how good it was. I rarely see threads or topics about the positive side of Charmed, I think there is good stuff to be found even in the worst seasons.
There isn't a whole lot of positive light shed on the show mainly I think because it's never been a show that fans could really interact with, like someone else mentioned the actors only started meeting fans and doing conventions recently, and not even all of them do it. The producers of the show never talk about their time on the show, we never get any kind of material about the show bar the comics which aren't even canon.
It's an exhausting fandom to be a part of because to me at least it feels like I'm not getting anything back from it. Even the seasons I enjoyed as a kid are marred now by rewatches, more critical viewing and a harsher marking system when it comes to ranking episodes. When I was younger I didn't care about shoddy writing, or plot holes, or lack of budget, I just enjoyed watching my favorite show on TV and for 40 minutes I could get lost in a world I adored.
But now? Not so much. I still love the show, but I find myself criticising things that I never did before, I guess maybe I'm a little envious looking at other fandoms and how they've thrived since their respective franchises ended, but Charmed has been left to the side, though I've heard it's very popular on netflix?

I think you summed it up very well with "It's an exhausting fandom to be a part of because to me at least it feels like I'm not getting anything back from it."  For a show that was often dismissed for being light entertainment, Charmed has actually become very hard to just sit back and watch nowadays.  Even the early seasons seem to have been marred by all of the negativity from the later seasons and the fandom, which is just sad.

The lack of an interactive fandom (good description, BTW) certainly doesn't help, either.  What do Charmed fans even have to look forward to, anymore?  No movie or spinoff will ever be made, and the comics probably aren't long for this world.  Every writer and producer that was involved with the show has basically abandoned it, and conventions are still scarce.  There's still no big cast reunion in the planning anytime soon. 

A lot of people may have hated the reboot idea, but at least it was something new.  Something to look forward to.  Activity at this site actually jumped up, and you were seeing threads about things other than bashing Piper/Phoebe/Cole/Chris/Billie, or nitpicking about powers, or moaning about how Kern ruined the show.  Alas, it was not to last.

[Deleted]

Dec 28, 2015 0:38:31 GMT -5 @tim66 said:

TV Tropes calls this a Troubled Production (Rosanne and Grace Under Fire also fall under this category).  The behind the scenes hi-jinks eclipsed the show itself.

Charmed actually has an entry on that page, believe it or not:

It's something of a miracle that Charmed managed to last eight seasons, given how rocky the road was almost from the start.

- The show's creator, Constance M. Burge, left after season 2 (though stayed on as an Executive Consultant until season 5) because she disagreed with the introduction of Cole Turner. Season 2 had been taken up with a love triangle between Piper, Dan, and Leo, and Burge didn't want Season 3 to be dominated by a love story too.

- During the third season, tension between actresses Shannen Doherty and Alyssa Milano was reportedly incredibly heated. Doherty ultimately left the show during the break between seasons 3 and 4, something which had also happened for similar reasons on her previous show Beverly Hills 90210. This forced the writers to kill off Prue offscreen, and Doherty later denied producers any rights to use archive footage of her on the show. Her image was also never used on the show again, as it would reportedly cost $8,000 just for a picture of her. As a result of this, it took much longer for the first three seasons to come out on DVD, and an action figure of Prue was never made.

- Holly Marie Combs, good friends with Doherty, was rumoured to want to leave the show after season 3 as well, but forced to stay by contract.

- After Doherty left, Rose McGowan was brought in as Paige, a long-lost Halliwell sister to replace Prue. She revealed in an interview that she thought the role would only last two seasons (the length of her initial contract), and did not expect to become a series regular for five seasons. She was also incredibly unhappy at how her character was being written in the fifth season, supposedly angrily going to the writers and saying "Paige isn't a ho!", which was fixed afterwards. She has been quoted as saying "each year, Charmed would get renewed and each year I would cry."

- The lead actresses were incredibly unhappy with the increasingly stripperiffic outfits the sisters would be forced to wear. The sisters would frequently be transformed into various magical creatures that would require a different skimpy outfit (mermaid, genie, Valkyrie, wood nymph etc.) and before the eighth season went to producers to protest against it. The show's costume designer for five years was fired and replaced with a new one, the sisters' clothing becoming a little more modest.

- For the final season, the network slashed the budget in half. As a result, series regular Dorian Gregory was Put on a Bus and Brian Krause had to be temporarily written out for ten episodes. The network also demanded new cast members be brought on, leading to the creation of Billie — a character intended for a spin-off that never happened (due to negative fan reactions). Shannen Doherty was not even asked to appear in the finale episode and a picture was not even used due to the costs. Producers claimed they would have had to drop one or two of the returning cast members had they used a picture of Doherty.

You know it's bad when even TV Tropes acknowledges it.

[Deleted]

I am rather critical, but for me it stems from a love of what the show once was. There are some awful shows on, but they're just not on my radar, I wouldn't spend time talking about something negatively if I had no investment in it. It was similar with Buffy for me (though not as steep a decline, a considerable decline nevertheless in my opinion). But I get what you mean... on Buffy forums, there's more discussion about the golden years, so it's better balanced with ripping into the late seasons and comic atrocities. I have seen some positive forums on here recently and that is nice to see- I enjoyed the "best episode" polls we did a bit a go for example.

Hopefully I'll get some double bills done in my season 8 rewatch so I can get back to something a bit more positive.

[West]

Dec 27, 2015 21:39:17 GMT -5 Esmeralda said:

Dec 27, 2015 18:08:12 GMT -5 lilchi7212 said:

Well I believe originally I think Zenoscope didn't plan for season 10 comic book series that's why it took so long for 10 to come to past. Apparently I guess the person who does the charmed comic fan site didn't know this at the time.

Some of the things we see this season were from a season 10 wishlist that was on charmed comic fan that people wanted to see I can tell.

That's the hilarious thing. It's just like when the fans said they wanted to find out more about the magical community and we got fairies and trolls and leprechauns, oh, my!

It's also just like all of us fans being so excited about Season Eight - and we all know what happened...

It's the infamous "Beware of what you wish for - you might get it!"

It keeps showing why I'll stick with fanfics! Then I can get what I want without screwing it up - even if a number of other fans will think I did!

Sometimes what we need or want isn't what we should get. Its why I respect Joss Whedon of Buffy, he said exactly the same thing, that what fans want isn't what they need. I respect shows more when they dont fan service a show, its always a hit and miss, and in more ways can ruin a good show.

I always say a writer should stick to the plan and not change something because of the fans. Its why I hate social media, these days it has way too much influence on a show, and writers talking to fans. Sometimes I miss the good old days when social media wasn't around, and the online community was small and only message boards. I just cant stand alot of places like facebook or twitter when it comes to fan discussions, I love forums. I hate how these days its all social media when talking about shows, I just have bad experiences with them.


I feel that it true people are very vocal about what they dislike about a show and have strong options. But thats just how it is, not everyone will agree with something. But I find ship wars the worst, I just will never get involved in those discussions much now, its way too much drama, and I've been in so many fandoms, I've left over it. But those discussions are more for the young crowd, who have a different mind set than those older.

[Chrisaholic]

I love the show and still watch it (when I can) but we had an endless rerun of all 8 seasons since the show had officially ended in 2006. Slowly, it's been enough. Even for me.

Anyway, we cannot change the outcome of the show anymore. What's done is done. Never mind, you can see that there's clearly a break between two seasons and I had the feeling Charmed became more a strip show than a family one. The sudden rise of the magical community comes to mind here, along with some other parts. Some were well worked out whereas others  . I also was not happy as what had happened to my favorite character as his adult self had left/died. Yes, I know the show is about the girls but still. Why then introduce children in the first place?

My closer step to the fandom was more to TCS but I know that this is long gone, yet I'm still a fan of the actors and try to be up to date with both of them (movies, series etc.)

Now I'm here because I have no place to go anyway but ... always the same threads and no going on with the further seasons is slowly getting tiresome.

[Deleted]

The show's creator, Constance M. Burge, left after season 2 (though stayed on as an Executive Consultant until season 5) because she disagreed with the introduction of Cole Turner. Season 2 had been taken up with a love triangle between Piper, Dan, and Leo, and Burge didn't want Season 3 to be dominated by a love story too.

If that was the case, I can't blame Burge for objecting.  Many feel that the Piper/Leo/Dan triangle dragged down what was otherwise an excellent season.

Rose McGowan was brought in as Paige, a long-lost Halliwell sister to replace Prue. She revealed in an interview that she thought the role would only last two seasons (the length of her initial contract), and did not expect to become a series regular for five seasons. She was also incredibly unhappy at how her character was being written in the fifth season, supposedly angrily going to the writers and saying "Paige isn't a ho!", which was fixed afterwards. She has been quoted as saying "each year, Charmed would get renewed and each year I would cry."

Yeah, Rose only thought she'd be there a year, two tops.  She never dreamed that she would be trapped on Charmed for half a decade.  

- The lead actresses were incredibly unhappy with the increasingly stripperiffic outfits the sisters would be forced to wear. The sisters would frequently be transformed into various magical creatures that would require a different skimpy outfit (mermaid, genie, Valkyrie, wood nymph etc.) and before the eighth season went to producers to protest against it. The show's costume designer for five years was fired and replaced with a new one, the sisters' clothing becoming a little more modest.

So that's why Hellish got the boot.  Too bad they didn't do it sooner.

Shannen Doherty was not even asked to appear in the finale episode and a picture was not even used due to the costs. Producers claimed they would have had to drop one or two of the returning cast members had they used a picture of Doherty.

You mean they would have had to drop one of those pointless guest stars?  They should have paid Shannen for the use of her picture.

[Deleted]

Dec 28, 2015 6:45:11 GMT -5 @p3nathan said:

I am rather critical, but for me it stems from a love of what the show once was. There are some awful shows on, but they're just not on my radar, I wouldn't spend time talking about something negatively if I had no investment in it. It was similar with Buffy for me (though not as steep a decline, a considerable decline nevertheless in my opinion). But I get what you mean... on Buffy forums, there's more discussion about the golden years, so it's better balanced with ripping into the late seasons and comic atrocities. I have seen some positive forums on here recently and that is nice to see- I enjoyed the "best episode" polls we did a bit a go for example.

Hopefully I'll get some double bills done in my season 8 rewatch so I can get back to something a bit more positive.

Yeah, that's the problem with this board and way too many other Charmed sites (both dead and active)--the negative, above and beyond, outweighs the positive. There's way too much complaining, moaning, and arguing over Seasons 3-8, and even the more positive discussions about Seasons 1-2 are often tainted by people bringing up those seasons' negatives or mentioning how much the later seasons suck in comparison. We all do it, admit it.

Again, it makes me wonder if we've really internalized all of those negative, scathing reviews critics gave the show when it was on. Would any of us truly, honestly consider Charmed to be a great show? Would any of us actually recommend the show to other people?

Dec 28, 2015 7:25:30 GMT -5 West said:

Sometimes what we need or want isn't what we should get. Its why I respect Joss Whedon of Buffy, he said exactly the same thing, that what fans want isn't what they need. I respect shows more when they dont fan service a show, its always a hit and miss, and in more ways can ruin a good show.

I always say a writer should stick to the plan and not change something because of the fans. Its why I hate social media, these days it has way too much influence on a show, and writers talking to fans. Sometimes I miss the good old days when social media wasn't around, and the online community was small and only message boards. I just cant stand alot of places like facebook or twitter when it comes to fan discussions, I love forums. I hate how these days its all social media when talking about shows, I just have bad experiences with them.

I feel that it true people are very vocal about what they dislike about a show and have strong options. But thats just how it is, not everyone will agree with something. But I find ship wars the worst, I just will never get involved in those discussions much now, its way too much drama, and I've been in so many fandoms, I've left over it. But those discussions are more for the young crowd, who have a different mind set than those older.

I agree completely with you. Look no further than Pretty Little Liars if you want to see a good show that was ruined by excess fan pandering. Sometime around Season 3, the show's writers and producers started paying more attention to shippers on Twitter, and shipper outcry forced them to backtrack and rewrite storylines TWICE just because they made two of the leads' boyfriends evil:

www.tvfanatic.com/2012/08/pretty-little-liars-producer-previews-return-of-mona-shocking-re/
www.wetpaint.com/pretty-little-liars-season-4-spoilers-can-we-trust-toby-768467/

tvline.com/2013/08/28/pretty-little-liars-ezra-a-season-4-spoilers-aria/
www.eonline.com/news/512281/pretty-little-liars-bombshell-aria-finds-out-ezra-s-shocking-betrayal-scoop-on-what-s-next-for-ezria-s-future

In just one fell swoop, two potentially interesting, engaging storylines about people whom the Liars trusted not being who they said they were turned into a pile of crap and were replaced by boring, anticlimactic "redemption" arcs that did nothing but make these two couples look horrible. Even worse, it pretty much ensured that every other villain reveal we would get after that would be a safe, boring, anticlimactic newbie/secondary (and usually female) character unlikely to cause fan outcry:

zap2it.com/2014/06/pretty-little-liars-season-5-premiere-shana-is-a/
www.wetpaint.com/is-andrew-3-clues-that-829747/
www.bustle.com/articles/104132-is-cece-really-a-on-pretty-little-liars-the-show-has-some-explaining-to-do-in
www.wetpaint.com/pretty-little-liars-sara-harvey-cece-1434015/

Thanks to annoying, overzealous shippers, what was once a great, engaging, and often creepy mystery series lost all of its bite and quickly devolved into a self-parody. If only Marlene King had taken Joss Whedon's advice.