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Post by sol on Jan 13, 2016 17:42:30 GMT -5
This is a little off-topic, but do you think that fandom opinions of the show have changed over time? For example, Chris and Wyatt used to be very popular and well-liked characters. There was an entire spinoff movement dedicated to them, and a large number of fans felt like they had saved the later seasons. A lot of people even outright hated Seasons 7 and 8 simply because of how the Chris and Wyatt story had been dropped without any real resolution. Nowadays, though, you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who's a huge fan of the characters. The spinoff movement is dead and buried, every Charmed Sons fansite having since closed. You're much more likely to find criticism of the characters than praise, with many even claiming that Chris nearly killed the show in Season 6. Similar seems to happened to Piper and Cole. Both were also hugely popular and well-loved among the fandom 10 years ago, but nowadays it seems like you see more criticism for them than praise (with many even going so far as to claim that Cole was the first time the show Jumped the Shark). On the flip-side, fandom opinion seems to have softened on Billie over the years. While she's still widely regarded as a Mary Sue, she's seen much more as a victim of bad writing and poor casting nowadays, rather than the Source of All Evil that the fans regarded her as back when Season 8 was airing. Nowadays, it's the poor characterization of the sisters (especially Piper and Phoebe) that people hate the most about Season 8. What do you think? Did you feel differently about the show back when it was still airing? Have later rewatches changed your opinions? Some of my views have definitely changed over the years. Originally, Piper was my favourite all the way through. These days, she's only my favourite in season 1. Still like her most of the time in s2. Think she's okay for most of s3, 4 and 5. After that, I can't stand her. Still love Holly and think she's an underrated actress, but I have far less patience for the character. My dislike for Phoebe is more or less the same really, perhaps exacerbated a bit by re-watching without a week in between episodes. Although looking back, I'm surprised I didn't dislike her sooner actually. When season 5 and 6 aired, I mostly just found her irritating, bored of her column and her love life, but it wasn't really until season 7 that I started disliking her so much. Whereas now, I'd consider many of her worst s5 and 6 moments as her lowest points in the series. I feel pretty much the same about Prue and Paige. Prue was overly harsh at first, but I really grew to like her and was sad to see her go. Paige was great in season 4, but then the writers just stopped caring... until they eventually decided that she should get married before the finale, so were finally forced to spend a bit of time actually developing something for her. I have softened towards Billie for sure. I'm not a Billie fan; I still think she's a poorly written, two-dimensional character, awkwardly forced into the manor; but at least she gives a hoot about people. We'll have to see if my opinion on her changes when we get into the Christy/ultimate power stuff. Billie will be getting her projection power in the next ep I review, so it can't be far off.  Cole, again, still feel more or less the same. Enjoyed him in s3 and 4, but then s5 happened. He was never the biggest draw of the show for me, but I generally found him interesting to watch. Season 5 just turned him into a bad joke that someone retells over and over and over again, despite nobody laughing in the first place. I do find my opinions tend to change when I rewatch years later. Sorry to bring things back to Buffy; but I did a rewatch not long a go and that was similar. I had far less patience for some characters I used to consider favourites, while I found myself appreciating other characters much more than I did originally. Then there are shows like Charmed, where my opinions change for the worse as the series goes on, but I carry on watching because of how much I loved it initially. Once Upon a Time has gone that way. If most of the characters were killed off at this point, I'm not sure I'd care... but I continue with it; partly because I used to love it so much and partly because I guess I'm naively hoping that it'll get back on track eventually. I feel like you, I'm still trying with Once Upon A Time, I loved the first two seasons, now I watch the episode only after I record it so I can move forward faster if I don't like |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2016 18:28:31 GMT -5
Imagine Season Six with no Chris. It would have been all rubbish episodes like the ones above. The horror.... The horror....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2016 18:48:05 GMT -5
I feel as Nathan about Once Upon a Time, I actually stopped watching I failed to get attached to the characters, I liked only Hook, all the others were too stereotyped and especially Emma, I wasn't able to like her. I feel like you, I'm still trying with Once Upon A Time, I loved the first two seasons, now I watch the episode only after I record it so I can move forward faster if I don't like I loved seasons 1 and 2, enjoyed season 3. First half of season 4 had its moments (saved entirely by Ingrid, IMO, a fantastic villain), then things went far worse. Having watched the first half of season 5, I'm officially watching it out of curiosity and love for what it used to be. The more I think about it, the more it seems to be going the way of Charmed: -Emma has become unbelievably selfish. I hadn't really considered her a hero since season 3, but season 5 took the cake. She gets away with being an absolutely horrendous person in the name of love. She's the Phoebe of OUAT. Also, Killian shoulders 100% of the consequences while she's still put on a pedestal, blameless... my that sounds familiar doesn't it? -Rumple may be the Cole of OUAT. He is the proverbial hamster on a wheel. Good, evil, good, evil. I had high hopes for him in season 5, because it actually seemed like they were committing to his redemption and a new path for him... but what a surprise, we get to the half way point of the season and we're right back to square one. I'm surprised Robert Carlyle hasn't left due to being bored of how repetitious his material is. I think he's far better than the writers deserve frankly. Used to be one of the most compelling characters, now he's just damn tedious to watch. -Regina was once my favourite, but now the writers seem determined to have her sound as stupid and hypocritical as possible in every episode. -Snow may as well not be there at this point. Kinda like the Paige of the show, but probably worse, since she was the headliner when the show started. -Killian used to be a layered and interesting character. Now he cares about nothing except Emma. That was cemented for me recently when he had no problem with everyone else being dragged to hell, but then when someone hurts Emma it's suddenly hero time. He's been reduced to 2D love interest. -But mostly, the biggest issue I have with the series now, above everything else (and it's another thing that reminds me of Charmed)... Romance and shipping ALWAYS take priority over family and friendship.
That was one of my biggest issues with Charmed and now it's the same with Once. Familial relationships and friendships used to be at the core of the series, but now they're pretty much ignored. Shipping has claimed that spot now and it doesn't matter how bad the characters look individually, or how little they develop, or how much they devolve; just so long as all the ships are making goo goo eyes at each other at the end of the day. As with Charmed, Once seems to have decided that loving someone means not caring about anyone else on the planet... bit of an issue there when your show is supposedly about heroes  Okay, rant over. Sorry, I know this is CHARMED Cafe... I just noticed quite a few similarities in how they developed. Plus I've had that rant on my chest since the Winter finale and I aint joining any Once fan sites! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2016 19:01:21 GMT -5
Yeah, very true. Actually now that you bring it up, it's quite amazing how little Chris is mentioned in S7 - figures, I suppose, the sisters are almost entirely self-obsessed by this point in the show. If only I could figure out a away to cut out that stupid Leslie/Nick Lachey... goodbye 'Bare Witch Project' and 'Cheaper by the Coven'. ... Was just thinking that myself. I think you only really need the bare essentials to get an idea of what happens in S6 anyway (aka 'Wyatt and Chris: Origins'). Haha! God, I despise those episodes, couldn't have said it any better myself. This is what I'd watch from Season 6: 6x10: "Chris-Crossed" 6x15: "I Dream of Phoebe" 6x16: "The Courtship of Wyatt's Father" 6x17: "Hyde School Reunion" (ONLY the Piper/Chris/Victor parts... skip through the Phoebe stuff, especially the horrible ending) 6x18: "Spin City" It's only 5 episodes, and in one of them, you'll be fast-forwarding through most of the scenes, anyways. Those are the main episodes that dealt with Chris and his backstory. (Which really tells you just how much of the season was worthless filler.) As for Season 7, I'd start with "Styx Feet Under," then watch "Someone to Witch Over Me" and "There's Something About Leo," skipping over the first 4 episodes, " "Once in a Blue Moon," and "Charmed Noir." You lose most of the garbage filler/promotional episodes from early Season 7, as well just about all of Nick Lachey. It also cuts down the dragging, lethargic Avatar storyline to its bare essentials. Imagine Season Six with no Chris. It would have been all rubbish episodes like the ones above. The horror.... The horror.... Season 6 probably would've been the show's last season. That was the final season the WB was contractually obligated to produce (due to an agreement that had been made back at the start of Season 4), and the only reason they renewed the show for Season 7 was because Chris and his storyline had brought Charmed its highest ratings since Shannen left (and it was during a season in which ratings had fallen all across the board on the WB). |
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Post by Esmeralda on Jan 13, 2016 23:11:40 GMT -5
I feel as Nathan about Once Upon a Time, I actually stopped watching I failed to get attached to the characters, I liked only Hook, all the others were too stereotyped and especially Emma, I wasn't able to like her. I feel like you, I'm still trying with Once Upon A Time, I loved the first two seasons, now I watch the episode only after I record it so I can move forward faster if I don't like I loved seasons 1 and 2, enjoyed season 3. First half of season 4 had its moments (saved entirely by Ingrid, IMO, a fantastic villain), then things went far worse. Having watched the first half of season 5, I'm officially watching it out of curiosity and love for what it used to be. The more I think about it, the more it seems to be going the way of Charmed: -Emma has become unbelievably selfish. I hadn't really considered her a hero since season 3, but season 5 took the cake. She gets away with being an absolutely horrendous person in the name of love. She's the Phoebe of OUAT. Also, Killian shoulders 100% of the consequences while she's still put on a pedestal, blameless... my that sounds familiar doesn't it? -Rumple may be the Cole of OUAT. He is the proverbial hamster on a wheel. Good, evil, good, evil. I had high hopes for him in season 5, because it actually seemed like they were committing to his redemption and a new path for him... but what a surprise, we get to the half way point of the season and we're right back to square one. I'm surprised Robert Carlyle hasn't left due to being bored of how repetitious his material is. I think he's far better than the writers deserve frankly. Used to be one of the most compelling characters, now he's just damn tedious to watch. -Regina was once my favourite, but now the writers seem determined to have her sound as stupid and hypocritical as possible in every episode. -Snow may as well not be there at this point. Kinda like the Paige of the show, but probably worse, since she was the headliner when the show started. -Killian used to be a layered and interesting character. Now he cares about nothing except Emma. That was cemented for me recently when he had no problem with everyone else being dragged to hell, but then when someone hurts Emma it's suddenly hero time. He's been reduced to 2D love interest. -But mostly, the biggest issue I have with the series now, above everything else (and it's another thing that reminds me of Charmed)... Romance and shipping ALWAYS take priority over family and friendship.
That was one of my biggest issues with Charmed and now it's the same with Once. Familial relationships and friendships used to be at the core of the series, but now they're pretty much ignored. Shipping has claimed that spot now and it doesn't matter how bad the characters look individually, or how little they develop, or how much they devolve; just so long as all the ships are making goo goo eyes at each other at the end of the day. As with Charmed, Once seems to have decided that loving someone means not caring about anyone else on the planet... bit of an issue there when your show is supposedly about heroes Okay, rant over. Sorry, I know this is CHARMED Cafe... I just noticed quite a few similarities in how they developed. Plus I've had that rant on my chest since the Winter finale and I aint joining any Once fan sites! No need to be sorry since you *were* comparing it with Charmed while also showing why you're here and not on another show's fan site. I've never watched OUAT - too scary for this girl - but I found your comparisons very simply fascinating, a bit like a thread at a different site where they wanted to know if the actresses who played Buffy, Willow and whoever Charisma played had starred in Charmed and if Shannen, Holly and Alyssa had starred in Buffy, which parts would they play and despite me having seen very little of Buffy, I found it very interesting until the thread turned into one of how wonderful the Buffy actresses were and how horrible the Charmed actresses were (totally forgetting the quality of the writing - or so I've heard...) so I had to block the whole thread. But I see no need to do that with this one - just certain posts by certain people...I feel my own relationship with Charmed is a lot more healthier since I started doing that. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 10:47:21 GMT -5
I loved seasons 1 and 2, enjoyed season 3. First half of season 4 had its moments (saved entirely by Ingrid, IMO, a fantastic villain), then things went far worse. Having watched the first half of season 5, I'm officially watching it out of curiosity and love for what it used to be. The more I think about it, the more it seems to be going the way of Charmed: -Emma has become unbelievably selfish. I hadn't really considered her a hero since season 3, but season 5 took the cake. She gets away with being an absolutely horrendous person in the name of love. She's the Phoebe of OUAT. Also, Killian shoulders 100% of the consequences while she's still put on a pedestal, blameless... my that sounds familiar doesn't it? -Rumple may be the Cole of OUAT. He is the proverbial hamster on a wheel. Good, evil, good, evil. I had high hopes for him in season 5, because it actually seemed like they were committing to his redemption and a new path for him... but what a surprise, we get to the half way point of the season and we're right back to square one. I'm surprised Robert Carlyle hasn't left due to being bored of how repetitious his material is. I think he's far better than the writers deserve frankly. Used to be one of the most compelling characters, now he's just damn tedious to watch. -Regina was once my favourite, but now the writers seem determined to have her sound as stupid and hypocritical as possible in every episode. -Snow may as well not be there at this point. Kinda like the Paige of the show, but probably worse, since she was the headliner when the show started. -Killian used to be a layered and interesting character. Now he cares about nothing except Emma. That was cemented for me recently when he had no problem with everyone else being dragged to hell, but then when someone hurts Emma it's suddenly hero time. He's been reduced to 2D love interest. -But mostly, the biggest issue I have with the series now, above everything else (and it's another thing that reminds me of Charmed)... Romance and shipping ALWAYS take priority over family and friendship.
That was one of my biggest issues with Charmed and now it's the same with Once. Familial relationships and friendships used to be at the core of the series, but now they're pretty much ignored. Shipping has claimed that spot now and it doesn't matter how bad the characters look individually, or how little they develop, or how much they devolve; just so long as all the ships are making goo goo eyes at each other at the end of the day. As with Charmed, Once seems to have decided that loving someone means not caring about anyone else on the planet... bit of an issue there when your show is supposedly about heroes Okay, rant over. Sorry, I know this is CHARMED Cafe... I just noticed quite a few similarities in how they developed. Plus I've had that rant on my chest since the Winter finale and I aint joining any Once fan sites! No need to be sorry since you *were* comparing it with Charmed while also showing why you're here and not on another show's fan site. I've never watched OUAT - too scary for this girl - but I found your comparisons very simply fascinating, a bit like a thread at a different site where they wanted to know if the actresses who played Buffy, Willow and whoever Charisma played had starred in Charmed and if Shannen, Holly and Alyssa had starred in Buffy, which parts would they play and despite me having seen very little of Buffy, I found it very interesting until the thread turned into one of how wonderful the Buffy actresses were and how horrible the Charmed actresses were (totally forgetting the quality of the writing - or so I've heard...) so I had to block the whole thread. But I see no need to do that with this one - just certain posts by certain people...I feel my own relationship with Charmed is a lot more healthier since I started doing that. Urgh, I've never liked the Buffy vs. Charmed stuff online. I think there's a mix of very good actors and mediocre actors in both Charmed and Buffy. Like you say, you have to take into account the quality of the writing. I think actors like Holly and Alyssa (even Rose to a lesser extent) were mostly wasted in later seasons due to poor scripts, while in Buffy some mediocre actors were bolstered considerably by decent writers (though not always, especially in the last two seasons... but I won't get into that rant haha). Glad you appreciated the comparisons. It didn't really become clear to me until finishing the first half of OUAT season 5. Funny how the fifth season seems like the point of no return for both shows! As I say, the reason I intend to keep watching is due to the love I once had for it; just like Charmed. Well, that... and there's also the fact that OUAT are starting a Greek mythology arc when they return in March. I love Greek mythology, so I'll be taking that bait. Although considering how much it's becoming like Charmed, I am more than a little nervous at the prospect of them doing this in season 5 of all seasons! I'll just pray that it doesn't end up like "Nymphs" or "Oh My Goddess". |
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Post by erikamarie on Jan 14, 2016 11:28:06 GMT -5
I believe that the problem, which also OUAT is suffering, is the organization
Eric Kripke had planned three seasons for Supernatural,then extended to five and the fifth ended in fact the main plot of the show as imagined by Kripke
Actually, the first five seasons of Supernatural are enjoyable,I rewatch willingly when they are re-programmed: the other five are holding only due to the bond that the two protagonists have created (they would have been perfect as Charmed Sons) and two seductive characters as Castiel and Crowley
But now the series is slackness and repetitive
Lost also was scheduled for 3 seasons then doubled, and you see it very well,4 seasons'ld be perfect
Charmed lasted 8 seasons, too much, too difficult
In 8 years, the characters have to grow, you cannot always portray Phoebe as the girl who was at 23, when she 31 now and this is a great problem, many fans were captivated by the image of three girls under 30, free of families or kids, uncertain about their future
Women over age 30 have different problems, the authors had to develop the characters, taking into account that thay are talking of three normal women with on their shoulders eight years of danger, suffering, death and mourning
If they were the carefree girls of the start, they'ld have seemed silly
And it's logical to think that love affairs was born, usually the fans are excited at the beginning of the story, but this story often takes off charm to the characters, for example Bones was more fun when the two protagonists were not a couple
Only Friends, with Ross and Rachel, managed to create a couple very popular, perhaps because they are able to have a child without being a couple, fans were curious about how it would end, curiosity satisfied only at the end of the serie
Having three year fixed clear and guaranteed, it should be a good policy for the tv series
And if all goes well other 2/3 decided with no hurry, not at the last moment
Eight are too many
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Post by erikamarie on Jan 14, 2016 11:32:01 GMT -5
No need to be sorry since you *were* comparing it with Charmed while also showing why you're here and not on another show's fan site. I've never watched OUAT - too scary for this girl - but I found your comparisons very simply fascinating, a bit like a thread at a different site where they wanted to know if the actresses who played Buffy, Willow and whoever Charisma played had starred in Charmed and if Shannen, Holly and Alyssa had starred in Buffy, which parts would they play and despite me having seen very little of Buffy, I found it very interesting until the thread turned into one of how wonderful the Buffy actresses were and how horrible the Charmed actresses were (totally forgetting the quality of the writing - or so I've heard...) so I had to block the whole thread. But I see no need to do that with this one - just certain posts by certain people...I feel my own relationship with Charmed is a lot more healthier since I started doing that. Urgh, I've never liked the Buffy vs. Charmed stuff online. I think there's a mix of very good actors and mediocre actors in both Charmed and Buffy. Like you say, you have to take into account the quality of the writing. I think actors like Holly and Alyssa (even Rose to a lesser extent) were mostly wasted in later seasons due to poor scripts, while in Buffy some mediocre actors were bolstered considerably by decent writers (though not always, especially in the last two seasons... but I won't get into that rant haha). Glad you appreciated the comparisons. It didn't really become clear to me until finishing the first half of OUAT season 5. Funny how the fifth season seems like the point of no return for both shows! As I say, the reason I intend to keep watching is due to the love I once had for it; just like Charmed. Well, that... and there's also the fact that OUAT are starting a Greek mythology arc when they return in March. I love Greek mythology, so I'll be taking that bait. Although considering how much it's becoming like Charmed, I am more than a little nervous at the prospect of them doing this in season 5 of all seasons! I'll just pray that it doesn't end up like "Nymphs" or "Oh My Goddess". I was right to abandon Once Upon A Time I attended a classic high school, studying Latin and ancient greek, years translating myths and epic,I cannot stand to see mangled the Olympians |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 11:37:08 GMT -5
Considering the way Charmed butchered the Greek mythology, I can't blame anyone for being wary.
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Post by farerb on Jan 14, 2016 12:12:59 GMT -5
I think 10 years from now, OUAT fandom will have the same discussions about the show like the charmed fandom has, espacially the comparison between the earlier good seasons - Charmed (S1-4), OUAT (S1-3A), and the later bad ones - Charmed (S5-8), OUAT (S3B - ??).
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Post by Darkhorse Christian on Jan 14, 2016 16:53:37 GMT -5
I loved seasons 1 and 2, enjoyed season 3. First half of season 4 had its moments (saved entirely by Ingrid, IMO, a fantastic villain), then things went far worse. Having watched the first half of season 5, I'm officially watching it out of curiosity and love for what it used to be. The more I think about it, the more it seems to be going the way of Charmed: -Emma has become unbelievably selfish. I hadn't really considered her a hero since season 3, but season 5 took the cake. She gets away with being an absolutely horrendous person in the name of love. She's the Phoebe of OUAT. Also, Killian shoulders 100% of the consequences while she's still put on a pedestal, blameless... my that sounds familiar doesn't it? -Rumple may be the Cole of OUAT. He is the proverbial hamster on a wheel. Good, evil, good, evil. I had high hopes for him in season 5, because it actually seemed like they were committing to his redemption and a new path for him... but what a surprise, we get to the half way point of the season and we're right back to square one. I'm surprised Robert Carlyle hasn't left due to being bored of how repetitious his material is. I think he's far better than the writers deserve frankly. Used to be one of the most compelling characters, now he's just damn tedious to watch. -Regina was once my favourite, but now the writers seem determined to have her sound as stupid and hypocritical as possible in every episode. -Snow may as well not be there at this point. Kinda like the Paige of the show, but probably worse, since she was the headliner when the show started. -Killian used to be a layered and interesting character. Now he cares about nothing except Emma. That was cemented for me recently when he had no problem with everyone else being dragged to hell, but then when someone hurts Emma it's suddenly hero time. He's been reduced to 2D love interest. -But mostly, the biggest issue I have with the series now, above everything else (and it's another thing that reminds me of Charmed)... Romance and shipping ALWAYS take priority over family and friendship.
That was one of my biggest issues with Charmed and now it's the same with Once. Familial relationships and friendships used to be at the core of the series, but now they're pretty much ignored. Shipping has claimed that spot now and it doesn't matter how bad the characters look individually, or how little they develop, or how much they devolve; just so long as all the ships are making goo goo eyes at each other at the end of the day. As with Charmed, Once seems to have decided that loving someone means not caring about anyone else on the planet... bit of an issue there when your show is supposedly about heroes Okay, rant over. Sorry, I know this is CHARMED Cafe... I just noticed quite a few similarities in how they developed. Plus I've had that rant on my chest since the Winter finale and I aint joining any Once fan sites! No need to be sorry since you *were* comparing it with Charmed while also showing why you're here and not on another show's fan site. I've never watched OUAT - too scary for this girl - but I found your comparisons very simply fascinating, a bit like a thread at a different site where they wanted to know if the actresses who played Buffy, Willow and whoever Charisma played had starred in Charmed and if Shannen, Holly and Alyssa had starred in Buffy, which parts would they play and despite me having seen very little of Buffy, I found it very interesting until the thread turned into one of how wonderful the Buffy actresses were and how horrible the Charmed actresses were (totally forgetting the quality of the writing - or so I've heard...) so I had to block the whole thread. But I see no need to do that with this one - just certain posts by certain people...I feel my own relationship with Charmed is a lot more healthier since I started doing that. As someone who's never watched Once either, simply because I haven't been interested enough to do so, I'm gonna concur with what Es just said. Charmed was part of the comparison, your thread remains relevant. That said, I'm actually a fan of this rant. It's got your usual flare, and if its direct parallels Charmed that much, I'm gonna have to thank you for the heads-up. Pretty sure I'm not gonna have any regrets about not checking out Once anytime soon. One thing from what I noted: I know you say Rumple is the Cole of the show, but from your description of how both he and Killian went downhill it sounds to me like they're sharing the role of Cole and not in a good way. And Es, that thread on the actresses? Yeah…that…sounds a bit cringeworthy. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 18:14:24 GMT -5
Nothing irritates fans than seeing their favourite shows destroyed by incompetent writing/behind the scenes shake ups/Executive Meddling/all of the above.
Here are some rules that should in place for all Hollywood productions:
1. When someone creates a show, said show remains in control of that same person, unless special circumstances occur (like say that person dies). No one else takes over unless that person okays it.
2. Networks are to have no involvement in the running of any shows. The networks will be like their were back in the early days of television, conduits, nothing more.
3. A show is to run no longer than five years. The longer it runs, the more bankrupt of idea it gets.
I know this will never happen, but it would be nice, right?
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Jan 14, 2016 18:58:04 GMT -5
Nothing irritates fans than seeing their favourite shows destroyed by incompetent writing/behind the scenes shake ups/Executive Meddling/all of the above. Here are some rules that should in place for all Hollywood productions: 1. When someone creates a show, said show remains in control of that same person, unless special circumstances occur (like say that person dies). No one else takes over unless that person okays it. 2. Networks are to have no involvement in the running of any shows. The networks will be like their were back in the early days of television, conduits, nothing more. 3. A show is to run no longer than five years. The longer it runs, the more bankrupt of idea it gets. I know this will never happen, but it would be nice, right? No this's good Tim I like it especially the last one which I'll use Supernatural for e.g. although I love the show and characters after 5 seasons the natural storyline had finished which is when people said it started going downhill. Now to add on what you said already I'm goanna input a few more of my own things. 4. A show must be consistent throughout in it's themes from start to finish i.e. characterisation and concept of it like Charmed for e.g. being about 3 sisters who happen to be witches who fight demons and protect innocents etc. 5. Proper storylines and mythologies should be researched beforehand so that they make sense when coming around to writing and showing them. And 6 finally. Have continuality writers who go over things each season making script adjustments if need be keeping things the same and not different later like everyone seeing ghosts in Charmed and not just witches, adults seeing fairies and Paige forgetting she vanquished the Source 4 years earlier making fans go what the heck. |
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Esmeralda
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Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
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Post by Esmeralda on Jan 14, 2016 21:02:28 GMT -5
Glad you appreciated the comparisons. It didn't really become clear to me until finishing the first half of OUAT season 5. Funny how the fifth season seems like the point of no return for both shows! As I say, the reason I intend to keep watching is due to the love I once had for it; just like Charmed. Well, that... and there's also the fact that OUAT are starting a Greek mythology arc when they return in March. I love Greek mythology, so I'll be taking that bait. Although considering how much it's becoming like Charmed, I am more than a little nervous at the prospect of them doing this in season 5 of all seasons! I'll just pray that it doesn't end up like "Nymphs" or "Oh My Goddess". Yeah, Season Five of any series seems to be the turning point - will the show continue to be good or will it go downhill? A shame that OUAT is following the same path Charmed did. Are OUAT fans writing fanfics based on the problems of the series? If so, they'd probably still be discussing their show ten years after it ends. If not, more likely than not, the fans will go onto other fandoms. |
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Post by West on Jan 14, 2016 21:31:14 GMT -5
It seems today in television. That TV shows are going on so much longer. It really has come down to money and networks renewing shows because of money and they are ratings better than any of their new shows.
Its all about business and money. A show will go on and on until nobody watches. Take Bones and Supernatural for instance. Plus were seeing shows revived. Clearly Hollywood is running out of ideas.
As for OUAT, I haven't caught up and stopped after the second episode this season. I said I'd catch up, but randomly I just never bothered. I guess I might not now, since so many dont like it, while there's some who say its improved.
As for Greek Mythology. I love it so much, but it always doesn't work out well when you throw it into a tv show set in present day. Its why they should keep it primary for shows that are actually set in that time period. But maybe it can, but it never has.
Charmed did Greek mythology the worst, I honestly have pet peeves when they get the mythology wrong. I'm all for a few changes, but when its so different and makes no sense. No thanks.
Like the Valkyries, they are not them at all period. Kern had then dressed and acting like Amazons. Valkyries are apart of Norse mythology, not the Amazons that Kern was throwing at us.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2016 0:30:30 GMT -5
Excellent. Add these to the list.
One could be forgiven for thinking that they'd accidentally turned on UPN and were watching an episode of America's Next Top Model. Only Tyra Banks was missing.
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Post by farerb on Jan 15, 2016 1:12:43 GMT -5
The thing that bothers me about OUAT and doesn't bother me about Charmed is that everyone involves with OUAT still lies in interviews and social networks about what the show is now. Clearly, they don't care about the story or the characters. They only care about ratings, money and keeping their job, which I get but they should not come and say they "poured their heart into it" when it is clearly false. At least, the people who were involved with Charmed were honest about what the show had turned into from season 5 or at least didn't lie that they still care about something more than money.
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Post by sol on Jan 15, 2016 2:38:52 GMT -5
It seems today in television. That TV shows are going on so much longer. It really has come down to money and networks renewing shows because of money and they are ratings better than any of their new shows. Its all about business and money. A show will go on and on until nobody watches. Take Bones and Supernatural for instance. Plus were seeing shows revived. Clearly Hollywood is running out of ideas. As for OUAT, I haven't caught up and stopped after the second episode this season. I said I'd catch up, but randomly I just never bothered. I guess I might not now, since so many dont like it, while there's some who say its improved. As for Greek Mythology. I love it so much, but it always doesn't work out well when you throw it into a tv show set in present day. Its why they should keep it primary for shows that are actually set in that time period. But maybe it can, but it never has. Charmed did Greek mythology the worst, I honestly have pet peeves when they get the mythology wrong. I'm all for a few changes, but when its so different and makes no sense. No thanks. Like the Valkyries, they are not them at all period. Kern had then dressed and acting like Amazons. Valkyries are apart of Norse mythology, not the Amazons that Kern was throwing at us. Naturally "Its all about business and money", the productions cost and the actors are workers, then claim a salary, and the main rule is that so if the first episodes of a new serie are successful, the serie can move on, even indefinitely, otherwise it closes I liked, for example, FlashForward, which was canceled after one season and doesn't have a real final, only a season finale I don't know the book quoted by Erika, but I read Campbell, The Hero's Journey, the book whose reading has influenced Lucas in the plan of his Star Wars saga It 's true, the writers know the archetypes and use them and mix them for their stories, the origin was the Odyssey, thenceforth most of the stories are variations of the same plot Spanish television produce a large amount of soap opera that sell worldwide and the fascinating villain is never missing, like salt in the salad The BB, beautiful bad, Cole, Killian, fascinates fans especially when then, for love, always for love, changes and joins the good side At this point it could become boring and then here 1- another man intrigues the heroine, he suffers in silence for a while, then he let himself be tempted by evil again 2- he believes, but is a mistake, that the heroine love another:here go back to point 1 In both cases, the hearts of fans beat for BB, in case 1 they hate the heroine Otherwise 1- The BB let himselg be tempted by the old life, he double-cross to not lose the love of his life 2- The BB sacrifices himself for love and go back to the dark side to save his beloved The hearts of fans are stil beating for BB The scenario is this, so the plots can be endless In OUAT, Killian, like Cole, was supposed to be a one season character but he enchanted the fans, so they quickly wrote about him The problem with the love stories is that they'ld be the final ones, butt they work well when they are realized at the end of the story. The hero's journey takes home: Odysseus goes back to Ithaca to Penelope, Aragorn goes back to the city of his fathers, with Arwen, Han Solo starts his future without the Empire with Leia, always at the end of the story Piper and Leo are a loved couple because they weren't always together, Leo lived elsewhere as Whitelighter first and then as Elder, after a brief marriage he was frozen, better than this! Henry and Paige had a short life as a couple, Henry is adorable but if he entered as boyfriend in Paige's life few years earlier, maybe he'ld be less loved Andy is beloved as missing boyfriend because he died almost immediately Cole and Phoebe implement the Ross and Rachel's method but without happy ending: maybe this is a reason that they are still couple so regretted We are linked to the archetypes, if the writers are able, they create a bond between spectator and archetype that determines the success of the series, in this case the series move on, otherwise they delete the serie : trivial market law |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
S2 "What If...?"
Fan Fic Winner
Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
Posts: 21,920
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Post by Esmeralda on Jan 15, 2016 18:35:04 GMT -5
I've definitely grown to like Piper and Phoebe less and appreciate Prue and Paige more. I think one's opinions just change naturally as you get older, so certain traits of Piper's and Phoebe's that I once found funny now get on my nerves a bit. Particularly now that I am doing my mini-marathon, I've noticed just how pointless Phoebe really is post Season 4; not only does she barely use her powers but she's just an annoying women in general. For example, in 'Valhalley of the Dolls', which I've just watched, she calls the restaurant to essentially stand up that DJ that asked her out, but then gets angry because her beat her to the punch. According to PhoeME, he 'stood her up' because he called the restaurant and not her. Fair enough, I agree... but was she not just about to do the same thing?  If she was already late for the date and about to call him/the restaurant to tell them she's not coming, she HAS stood him up already, no? That's just one example of how stupid the writing became on the show. Maybe at one point I did find that scenario funny, but now I just think, 'If I met you in real life, you would really do my head in!' In terms of the seasons, I really can't stand Season 6. I'm not 100% sure why but I think it must be because of factors such as my example above. That and the combination of too many negative/disagreeable factors makes me wish I could skip the whole season i.e. Paige's yellow hair; Phoebe's crap pixie cut; the sisters not looking or acting like sisters anymore; Leo abandoning his family and then hanging around the house anyway; protecting King Wyatt; hired-for-his-looks Drew and his whining voice; Phoebe and Spencer Ricks; exploding power and potions-throwing galore; Phoebe's bag of tricks empathy; premonitions go missing; Phoebe loses her powers; Magic School; Gideon, the moustache-twirling baddie. I could go on and on and bore everyone into a coma... Conversely, my perception of S5 has changed quite a lot. I used to think that it was just as awful as S6, but when you cut out the fairytale episodes from S5 it actually isn't half bad. It's not the season I wanted, but it's a nice, lighter fare, reminscent of S2. Had they used a different finale to 'Oh My Goddess', I would've happily made that the last season. I think when I next do a marathon I'll stop at 'The Day the Magic Died' (hooray, no bloody Jason Dean to contend with) or even 'Necromancing the Stone'. The only problem is I still like S7 and don't mind S8, so would like to find a way in which I could just bypass S6, open to suggestions... I'd suggest you try a method suggested by Dstarr quite a while ago. It's the way I was going to do it during one of my own re-watches, but I just couldn't get past S4. But since it sounds like you didn't have any problems with that, this might work for you. This is a post from that thread from my re-watch: I have a question Es. Will you be doing all 8 seasons, or just the first three or four? No, Seer, I'm not. As I've said in a number of other threads (so anyone who's already read this, just skip this post..) I'm doing it a different way in hoping that I'll be able to enjoy more of Charmed than just the first three seasons as I have during previous re-watches. Dstarr was the one who suggested it, but rather than linking to her thread I'll just tell you that she suggested watching S1-4 and skipping S5 & 6 - just pretending that there's a sign that says "Two Years Later". She also suggested SKIPPING the following S7 episodes: A Call to Arms Bare Witch Project Cheaper by the Coven Charrrmed Someone to Witch Over Me Once in a Blue Moon Ordinary Witches Imaginary Friends And, of course, she totally skips the travesty that is S8. She pointed out that doing it this way, the Avatar plot that dragged on for 13 episodes is now limited to 6 and by skipping S5 and S6 and those S7 episodes, their attitudes make more sense - Piper seems to be like she was in S4; Phoebe's experience as Queen of the Underworld seems to have matured her, and the experience has made Paige more comfortable with her sisters. She also said that without the background of the changes in the sisters as shown in S5 and S6, the parts of the Avatar plot that bugged her so much when she watched Seasons Five and Six first didn't bug her as much this way. She also pointed out that this version of Charmed gives Cole and Phoebe better closure. She is very obsessive about Cole, and hates how Kern misused him and turned him into the obsessed stalker in Season 5, making a mockery of his and Phoebe's love. Like me, she said she tends to think that if he really loved Phoebe, instead of stalking and tormenting her, he would leave her alone and let her move on. Besides, his vanquish is a lot more memorable in Season Four than in "Centennial Charmed", besides it truly being Phoebe who helped vanquish him, not an alternate version with Paige’s help. Instead, “Witch Way Now” shows that he had enough strength to return to save her life, but Dstarr interprets on her own that he lost his strength and faded into the limbo that we see in “Seven Year Witch”. And she thinks that him helping her move on by introducing her to Drake makes the perfect closure. That’s why for fans who love Phoebe and Cole (which I don't right now but I might after this rewatch), she thinks that watching these episodes directly after Season Four is so much better. Like me, she also sees very little similarities in what the Avatars in S5 did and the ones in S7 did, so this takes away that consistency problem. I'm also hoping that doing it this way will change my reaction towards Leo and Piper, once my own favorite couple but anything but once Leo became an Elder. I know I liked them as a couple when I rewatched "Scry Hard" and "Little Box of Horrors" on TNT during a vacation, so I hope this will help put them back in that spot. Dstarr said that she likes watching “Styx Feet Under” as the S7 premiere because it has them trying to protect an innocent. She said she thinks it's more suitable than "A Witch's Tale" or "A Call to Arms" since they decided at the end of S4 to keep their powers in order to continue their destiny to help innocents - not protect the Twice Blessed Brat as is shown to be their new destiny in S5 and S6, the reason she skips “Someone to Witch Over Me” and “Imaginary Fiends”. Like me, she can't stand Wyatt having a million powers and being more powerful than his mother and aunts - this way he is never referred to as the Twice Blessed Child and the only powers he shows are orbing and his shield, both which make sense for a baby who has a whitelighter for a father. I'm very eager to see if this change changes my reaction towards Piper, Phoebe, Paige, Leo and Cole, characters I loved before S4 but slowly learned to hate, mainly because of what happens in S5 and S6, but because I've discovered my memory for the earlier episodes has gotten so bad, that's why I'm doing my full re-watch, but done this way. If you want to join me, Seer, I'd love it! Just do it at your own pace and feel free to put your own reactions to the various episodes in my thread. Reality Bites is doing his own re-watch, but is only going to review each season, probably in his own thread. Feel free to do it however you want. Ditto to anyone else, including anyone who wants to do it either Dstarr's way, the entire thing or however else you want to do it. I know there's a fan at a different site who can't stand Prue, so he's starting with Charmed Again and going from there. More power to him! Different strokes for different folks. Oh, doing it this way is *not* something I would recommend to people who are watching Charmed for the first time - some fans do like those missing seasons and I've never felt it's my place to tell people what they should or shouldn't like. And, of course, if they like those seasons (yes, Chrisaholic, I'm especially thinking of you...), then they should watch them and enjoy them. But for anyone who doesn't like the changes in the main characters, I highly recommend giving this a try. Would that work for you, Deano? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2016 18:50:22 GMT -5
Shows the impact that Social Networks have had in the decade since Charmed ended.
There were such things in Charmed's heyday, but they were nowhere near as advanced and popular as they are now.
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If she was already late for the date and about to call him/the restaurant to tell them she's not coming, she HAS stood him up already, no?