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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Sept 29, 2008 15:30:47 GMT -5
D**N. I just don't want people in general to suffer that way unless I......... Never mind.  The point I am trying to prove though is that it is just not the magical power that contributes to the woman empowerment theme. I mean look at them. They don't let them selves get pushed around(most of the time). I mean look at Prue, and Piper after Prue died. |
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Post by K. Aabye on Sept 29, 2008 16:31:36 GMT -5
I liked Melinda and would have loved for her to be the firstborn but she is now 3rd instead so Piper still had her daughter and I love the fact that she had the little girl she always wanted.
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Post by Astral Echo on Sept 29, 2008 18:26:16 GMT -5
See I'm a great believer in the whole "power to women" roote that Connie set down at the start of the series. Kern took over and like the egoistic pig he is, he completely changed the dynamic of the show by creating Superbrat (who was born into a line where only the females should be witches), all powerful Cole and the need to marry every sister off. It's just not right!
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~*Alicia*~
Witch
It's a love story <3
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Post by ~*Alicia*~ on Sept 29, 2008 19:50:56 GMT -5
I prefered Melinda and I do agree with you, Astral Echo. I think that the whole show was intended to show "girl power" and the importance of family. I do think that it would've been a better idea if Melinda and Wyatt were twins.
But I also think that the reason that Melinda wasn't brought inot the show had something to do with the fact that the future was changed because of Prue's death.
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Sept 29, 2008 21:55:18 GMT -5
Kern did maintain Burge's "girl power" theme.
The problem with Constance Burge is that her idea of "girl power" is for the sisters to bond with each other, without engaging in any serious romance. The problem with Kern is that his idea of "girl power" is for Phoebe to be the show's sexpot.
And the problem with both Burge and Kern is that their idea of "girl power" or female empowerment is to castrate or destroy the male.
I don't want to have anything to do with either Burge or Kern's ideas of female empowerment.
There was nothing wrong with Piper and Leo having a son, or any of the other sisters. What's wrong with having a son with magical abilities? I never understood why neither Burge or Kern allowed male witches on the show. Their ideas of male witches are either 13 year-old adolescents . . . or toddlers. And the only grown male witch also happened to be half whitelighter.
I thought that Wicca was about the balance or equality of the female and the male. That is certainly not the message I got on "CHARMED".
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Esmeralda
Charmed
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 29, 2008 22:01:52 GMT -5
Yup, and February '09 is coming...that's when Piper will be on the stake. So Melinda never has a chance to live, not in this timeline, only in Piper's fantasy.
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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Sept 30, 2008 11:10:07 GMT -5
Yup, and February '09 is coming...that's when Piper will be on the stake. So Melinda never has a chance to live, not in this timeline, only in Piper's fantasy. And TVs that turn the volume up by themselves, and cars that one on vegetable oil. I agree with ljones on some level. Phoebe to me was always a sexpot even when Burge was on the show. Remember Feats of Clay? But it was more so when Kern took over. And MAGICAL POWER ISN'T THE ONLY THING THAT PROVES THE MALES GREATLY OVERPOWERED THE CHARMED ONES!!! |
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ljones
Whitelighter
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Post by ljones on Sept 30, 2008 12:13:52 GMT -5
And what happens to these all powerful men? They're either killed off, they lose their powers or they become the lapdogs of the Halliwell sisters.
Apparently, this show was incapable of having both powerful women and men as equals.
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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Sept 30, 2008 14:18:49 GMT -5
And what happens to these all powerful men? They're either killed off, they lose their powers or they become the lapdogs of the Halliwell sisters. Apparently, this show was incapable of having both powerful women and men as equals. Lol. I see what you are getting at. When I look over my post though I kind of said it wrong. I meant........ MAGICAL POWER ISN'T THE ONLY FACTOR THAT PROVES WHO IS MORE POWERFUL THAN WHOM!!There we go..... |
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Post by Astral Echo on Sept 30, 2008 15:29:53 GMT -5
It isn't about sexual equality. Sexism has nothing to do with Charmed, it was never about women being the stronger sex. Charmed was about "girl power" which is a completely different matter, the series represented a new age of women, one doesn't see them all as powerless damsals.
The fact that Wyatt was born was more of a rude two finger towards Burges' era and the rootes she had set down for the series. The first three seasons stated numerous times that only females in the Warren line could be witches, it didn't say only females can be witches. There was Max, Kevin, Paige's speedy charge that I can't remember the name of etc...
It was simply something that made the Warren's special and unique. It wasn't a sexist remark, it was just a way to stamp on a little bit of orginality.
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Post by SEERofCHAOS on Sept 30, 2008 17:58:58 GMT -5
I don't remeber anyone saying it was a sexist remark. You know what. I am just confusing myself. I am done with this debate.  |
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Esmeralda
Charmed
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Twenty Years Gone....But Never Forgotten.
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Post by Esmeralda on Sept 30, 2008 19:16:11 GMT -5
Oh, don't give up! You put in some very interesting idea. And I agree that your comment wasn't sexist. It isn't about sexual equality. Sexism has nothing to do with Charmed, it was never about women being the stronger sex. Charmed was about "girl power" which is a completely different matter, the series represented a new age of women, one doesn't see them all as powerless damsals. The fact that Wyatt was born was more of a rude two finger towards Burges' era and the rootes she had set down for the series. The first three seasons stated numerous times that only females in the Warren line could be witches, it didn't say only females can be witches. There was Max, Kevin, Paige's speedy charge that I can't remember the name of etc... It was simply something that made the Warren's special and unique. I don't think it actually said that only female Warrens could be witches...just that they were the only ones with *powers*. Grams' brother was a witch, but he didn't have powers. The Warren powers were only for females, with emphasis on WARREN powers. That's what Melinda Warren had foreseen. I agree that Wyatt being a male who was more powerful than the Charmed Ones--the whole Twice-Blessed Child crap which totally took away the idea of the Charmed Ones--was definitely the middle-finger to Burge's mythology. And, yes, it was definitely mythology. But like Superman or Batman or any other superhero, it was fun mythology as long as it was consistent so the viewer could be convinced that it was real. For Kern to continue the show but go totally against said mythology is why there were so many inconsistencies in the show, and each time one of those inconsistencies came up, it would jerk the viewer right out of said fantasy world. That's why supernatural/fantasy shows have to be even more consistent than "real" shows. It's why I loved Burge's seasons when the good people were good and the bad were bad and never the twain shall meet unless you were under a spell. Real-life-like? Of course not. But fantasy and escapist fantasy at that, oh, yes, and that's when I personally loved Charmed best, the same way as I love Superman or Batman or Spiderman or any other supernatural fantasy show you can think of. The emphasis is on the word "FANTASY". I know it's not real, but it lets me forget the real world for an hour. That's what fantasy does at its best. |
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Sept 30, 2008 19:53:29 GMT -5
If that was Constance Burge's intention, I think she failed to achieve her goal before Brad Kern took over. And I think that Kern failed even further.
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Post by Astral Echo on Oct 1, 2008 9:53:14 GMT -5
How did Burge fail in anyway shape or form?
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Oct 1, 2008 11:32:37 GMT -5
Oh, I wouldn't call Connie's seasons "perfect"--there were some truly awful episodes (Can anyone say "How to Make a Quilt out of an American" or "Animal Pragmatism"??) and truly awful characters (Can anyone say Jenny Gordon, or Dan Gordon after he found out that Piper loved Leo??) nor do I think the show would've been on the air for more than four years had she stayed on and had Shannen continued her role, as I believe she would've had Connie stayed on.
But Connie did a much better job showing "girl power" than Kern ever did and rather than quantity, we would've had quality--*consistent* quaility that would've made the Charmedverse seem much more real and not become a parody of itself. No way would we have had a male Twice-Blessed Child.
No way would we have had a Twice-Blessed Child!
In "Morality Bites" (and even in that one I hate the idea that a dead whitelighter could father a child, and that was *Connie's* idea, not Kern's. I do *not* think that Connie's seasons were perfect! Just the best.), Melinda told Piper that she wouldn't use her magic. She said nothing about using her powers. Had she just been a witch able to do magic and not have powers, specifically not Leo's powers, that would've allowed the emphasis to stay where it belonged...on The Charmed Ones.
So, yes, the witch Melinda should've been born rather than the Twice-Blessed Child Wyatt and his witchlighter brother.
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Post by CharmedFaith on Oct 1, 2008 12:59:23 GMT -5
nor do I think the show would've been on the air for more than four years had she stayed on and had Shannen continued her role, as I believe she would've had Connie stayed on. How so? The ratings didnt go up any after Shannen left and even if the show had ended in Season4 atleast it wouldve gone out when it was still on top and when majority of the fans actually cared about it being on. |
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Post by Astral Echo on Oct 1, 2008 13:03:52 GMT -5
That's what she is saying. Another season with Shannen and Connie in exchange for the four seasons we recieved, better known as the Perils of Piper.
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ljones
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Post by ljones on Oct 1, 2008 23:18:13 GMT -5
Oh, I wouldn't call Connie's seasons "perfect"--there were some truly awful episodes (Can anyone say "How to Make a Quilt out of an American" or "Animal Pragmatism"??) and truly awful characters (Can anyone say Jenny Gordon, or Dan Gordon after he found out that Piper loved Leo??) nor do I think the show would've been on the air for more than four years had she stayed on and had Shannen continued her role, as I believe she would've had Connie stayed on. But Connie did a much better job showing "girl power" than Kern ever did and rather than quantity, we would've had quality--*consistent* quaility that would've made the Charmedverse seem much more real and not become a parody of itself. No way would we have had a male Twice-Blessed Child. No way would we have had a Twice-Blessed Child! In "Morality Bites" (and even in that one I hate the idea that a dead whitelighter could father a child, and that was *Connie's* idea, not Kern's. I do *not* think that Connie's seasons were perfect! Just the best.), Melinda told Piper that she wouldn't use her magic. She said nothing about using her powers. Had she just been a witch able to do magic and not have powers, specifically not Leo's powers, that would've allowed the emphasis to stay where it belonged...on The Charmed Ones. So, yes, the witch Melinda should've been born rather than the Twice-Blessed Child Wyatt and his witchlighter brother. Melinda came dangerously close to not existing at all . . . if Connie Burge had her way. She didn't want to continue Piper's romance with Leo by late Season 1. Holly Marie Combs had to convince her to keep Leo around. |
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Esmeralda
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Post by Esmeralda on Oct 2, 2008 7:54:13 GMT -5
Melinda came dangerously close to not existing at all . . . if Connie Burge had her way. She didn't want to continue Piper's romance with Leo by late Season 1. Holly Marie Combs had to convince her to keep Leo around. I also got that feeling, that Connie didn't want to keep it...didn't want to keep Leo. Funny, knowing what Kern ended up doing to Leo, I find myself wishing she'd had her way so that Piper & Leo's love story would be the most beautiful, the most touching story on Charmed, when Piper lets him go because if he became mortal, he wouldn't be able to help the next Daisy... Even if the triangle between Leo, Piper and Dan was my favorite storyline on the show. |
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Post by Astral Echo on Oct 2, 2008 11:55:38 GMT -5
I too wish Connie had her way but perhaps she would of been too hasty, allowing it to end at the end of Season Two would of been nice. Perhaps him clipping his wings was just too much for both of them. Leo would struggle to much without his powers and Piper couldn't accept the fact that he'd no longer be able to help people. So they decide to end it before it ends them.
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